What is Digg?207 Comments
- afrazkhan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I'm studying fortune telling. I find it difficult to concentrate sometimes, so bear with me:
I see a nail and hammer, and ... hmm, I'm not sure. It's tall, a little taller than a man ... hmm ... aha! It's a coffin! Yes! I see it now!
And now the MPA and RIAA are ... my goodness, how is that even possible from _inside_ the coffin?! - einsteindesign, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5as a guitarist I will miss the tab sites...it was nice to look at how others worked out a phrase or riff. But they were ALWAYS illegal.
Sheet music is protected. It doesn't matter if you photocopy one from the publisher or transribe a tune yourself, the melody and the music are protected.
So that's why TAB sites are infringining. It's in a different notation, but it still describes the melody which is protected.
For what it's worth, I happen to work with one of the world's best guitarists, and his attitude towards instructional videos and tab has never wavered: just figure it out yourself. Otherwise you don't really learn anything. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Let's face it, music is for the musicians, not for the fans. You think you're buying a CD for yourself? Wrong. They're just letting you listen to their music because you gave them tons of money. You think you can sing the tune aloud in your car with your window open? Wrong. That's public exposure, and you didn't buy the rights to do that.
Whatever happened to the good ol' days? Musicians used to make a living off only donations because people enjoyed what they were doing so much that they wanted them to be able to keep doing it without having to have another job. - Herolint, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4To all those who don't see a problem with this: You are stupid!
Why? Because, there is nothing wrong (at least not yet) with a musician playing a cover song in a bar. It is LEGAL.
That being the case, why should it be illegal for somebody to write down their rendition of a song? The truth is that it isn't. Nobody copied the MPA's version of the song (otherwise it would be inaccurate and played in a stupid position on the instrument and nobody would download it anyway). If people were doing that, then I could see why they would be upset. However, this is not what is happening. People are listening to something and recreating it themselves. There is NOTHING wrong with that.
This is no different that somebody looking at how a house it put together, learning from it, and then putting their own house together. Or one store looking at how another store is run and then copying what works in their own store. Or the MPA looking at the RIAA lawsuits and thinking, "hey, that's a damn good idea. Let's do that."
By the logic of the MPA and all those on this list who agree with what they are doing, what if Sears sued any store who tried to take people's cash by having customers stand in a line and wait their turn to pay? What if Sears sued anybody who stored things on shelves? What if Ford sued anybody who tried to use an assembly line? If we don't fight this kind of crap now and fight it hard, you won't be able to have a cognitive thought without having to pay some dick a licensing fee.
I wrote the MPA a letter detailing my outrage at this. I will not buy any music whatsoever from this point on. If everybody did this for just a few short months, we would have a strong voice with these organizations and they would stop screwing people over. However, most people are weak lemmings and just can't stay out of the music shops, record shops and video stores. Idiots! - positron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4And in the streets the children screamed
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed
But not a word was spoken
The church bells all were broken
And the three men I admire most
The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost
They caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died - afrazkhan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4xgravix has a point.
Say there was a restaurant that served food you really liked. But you had to pay to get in, they treated you as if you were about to steal the cutlery the whole time you were in there, and then punched the food out of your stomach on the way out (because you hadn't bought the right to digest the food, only taste it).
You keep going back to that restaurant. WhatTF is wrong with you?
You don't need to deprive yourself of great music to deprive the RIAA of your money. Local bands are a good source - there stuff is cheap, and they're usually friendly enough to hang out with during/after the gig.
Or if there's nothing happening where you are, try some stuff off the web. As well as places like http://magnatune.com, some bands will distribute solely through the Internet from their site.
Whatever you do, stop buying music from the RIAA. There's something to be said for voting with your feet. - e3mw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3mycatsboots: The tabs are also often wrong - but that is totally beside the point here.
I don't care if it's plagiarism. It's still freedom of information, and that's what the Internet should be about. I just lost about 20% of the reason I even use the Internet this morning. I taught myself how to play the guitar by going on line and learning from sites like mxtabs, and now that has been stripped away.
I would still support the Music Industry by buying Cd's, but today marks a turning point: If these people thing it is somehow illegal to be a musician who isn't under one of their godawful labels...I will no longer support these money hungry corporate *****. - krached, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3A little bit of copyright law. When you buy a song, you are getting two things that are covered by copyright. First is the performance by the band, that is what people must often think is copyrighted. The other piece of copyright is in the score and lyrics. Cover bands, when they play a song in public, are required to pay the copyright owner. When someone plays a song in their basement for personal use, they do not have to pay. Distributing the score to the public also requires permission. This is the law in the US. You may or may not like it, but that is the current state of things. The other thing to note is that if a song is downloaded illegally, both of these pieces of copyright are infringed.
- Feedback65, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Here's my take on it , if they want to be dicks about it. Then I think they we should demand that when a new music cd comes out it has to come with lyrics and tab. Also I feel that also when I buy a cd I should be guaranteed to get the next technology as say music DVD or what ever type
of media that's the next compact disc . For example if I have Kiss on vinyl
record I should be able to trade it for Kiss on CD and not be charged. I would buy more , because I know that I would always be up on new tech. I hope that made sense to everyone sorry if it didn't - thedreampolice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have actually transcribed some tabs for different web sites for free. I say lets send them a bill for our time. Bastards. Or lets say if we buy the CD (or digital download) we get the TAB/Sheet music and lyrics for free.
- gauntalus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oh... my... *****.... god... I wrote a lot of the tabs on that site... :-/ ***** the mpa. This is completely rediculous...
- mycatsboots, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Music Tabs, like it or not, are pretty much stealing, because it is basically plagiarizing copyrighted information.
I have no problem buying music books, but there is one minor flaw with the books.. they are often wrong. Sites like powertabs.net provide several copies of songs, this way a user can pick a copy he/she feels is most accurate. By buying a book you are pushing out a fair amount of money for information that is somtimes wrong. When I started playing guitar about ten years ago, I bought a Nirvana book that was dreadfully wrong, that is Nirvana, music that is very easy to emulate. Every so oftne I peak on a Paul Gilbert, Jason Becker, and Yngwie book just to look. Most of the riffs are just blatantly wrong. The writers just kind of go by ear, they get the first and last sixteenth note of a likc right and just fill in the middle with random crap.
If you [MPA] force us to buy music books, make sure we are getting 100% correct information. I also believe online tabulature should be up to the artist that wrote the music. Bands like Racer-X post fan written tabulature on their site, will the MPA sue the band for posting their own tabulature? - clashbomb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i can see them going after sites that offer songs to download, but this is insane.... what's next.... .99 cents lyric downloads?.... paying a royalty every time you play a song on a guitar?
- DigginDave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2power tabs is how I learned how to play guitar and it's why I'm a pretty decent guitarist, it was a great resource to quickly learn how to play your favorite tunes. I'm glad I kept my 132 tabs. This is a very sad day for musicians. MPA, I swear, I will NEVER buy another song. I promise to steal all of my music.
- jaspinDroid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This borders on making it illegal to listen to a song in your head.
- tastypastry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2At times like this I hate more and more music artist. When are they going to stand up for their fans! We make them what they are!
- edmicman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What are the "licensed" sites to get lyrics and tabs?? If I hear a song on the radio but don't know what it is, but catch enough of the lyrics, where do I go to legally find out what the hell the name of it is? Call the radio station? "Yeah, whats the name of that song with the guy that goes like 'da da da deee deee da'?" And for the tabs, I understand how those are infrining on the tab sheet music books, etc., but aren't most of the transciptions on the tab sites NOT like they scanned in the books? They're just interpretations of one person's take on the song. How is that copyright infringement?!?
This whole thing just pisses me off..... - ksgant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2One thing though, they can't copyright chord progressions. Like for "Hey Joe" it's C, G, D, A, E. You can't really copyright that as there are a TON of different songs that have that exact same progression.
It's the notes they're having problems with. But really, the best thing to do is figure it out by listening to the music yourself. That's how all the greats did it, figure it out for yourself and actually LEARN something instead of just mimicking someone else. - matt7340, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Seems to me this is within the boundaries of copyright law. What's the real problem? People are angry they can't get free stuff. Blame the bands, the record companies, lawyers, MPA, RIAA, greediness, and on and on. Instead of playing the victim and whining, do something about it: learn the songs yourself, stop buying CDs, stop downloading songs, and start finding alternatives.
This is about the industry manipulating the consumer. Capitalism is a two way street, so exercise your power and don't allow them to manipulate you.
Rather than blaming capitalism, try exploiting it. - Rabid_Llama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You know, I wonder just how much money the MPA was losing on tablature websites. I wonder who it was hurting. I mean, you can say that the RIAA is losing money to mp3 downloads, so they have a reason to try and stop them. To me, the MPA's actions here just seem vindictive. They're just being ***** on PRINCIPLE because the tab sites are illegal and they're just shutting them down in some kind of music industry pissing contest.
As an aside, I'm being driven to just steal music more and more. I tried to stop for a while, only buy the music I listen to, because piracy was becoming a problem. Now, it's turning into consumer vs. corporation, and I don't want to deal with that. - Joeytg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I can remember when I first found Kazaa. I would insert random words to see what came back. That is how I found Govt Mule. I downloaded everything I could find, live or studio. I then purchased every CD they put out and attend every concert within driving distance. It could be that without Kazaa that I may have never found the band. I no longer buy CD's (OK maybe the newest Mule at the concert) but otherwise nothing. I love the tab sites. I am picking up guitar from these sites. I do not read music and the tabs make it easier to pick up and play. I have purchased some of the guitar books but they are expensive and I am usually mainly interested in one song. It is sad to see that the MPA is screwing up another area of music. I made my decision not to support the music industry monetarily long ago. I have requested no CD from any artist for Christmas or birthdays for the past several years. I suggest everyone else do the same. Let people know and maybe these corp butt pipes will get the point. As with anything else they will only get it if we all band together and stick to our guns. Don't buy the product, it won't do you any harm to go without CD's for a year. I guarantee if a majority of users stopped buying on line and off all this would cease. They know they can implement anything they want as long as we the sheeple put up with it an merrily keep buying.
I'm not going to get into the "Best Guitar player" argument. That's like saying blue is the best color. It all depends on taste. - Turminator999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2these organizations (the RIAA and MPA et al) have been using the same distribution infrastructure for their artist's music for decades, they made no attempts to change their strategies to actually work in an Internet enabled world. They only took action when they saw that guess what, record sales were slipping, they use this as an excuse to shut down every peer to peer network, tab site, or server they can get their pinstriped sewer trout's (lawyers) fins on because it (purportedly) causes them to lose money. They still haven't heard of bit torrents but they probably will before the decade is out but by then something even better will likely exist. The basic problem is that these conglomerates do not have any idea what to do and it shows, if they want to stop piracy, they will have to give consumers their rights and price their music so that it is affordable to all. They also need to realize that the reason their record sales are slipping is because they back artists that suck (not in all cases, and that is grade A+ flame material) and because of this nobody buys their Cd's. Not to mention recent experiences with rootkits and DRM trash technology that dose not bar anyone from pirating (in their terminology) the said music. Like any business that dose not stay on top of things, they will evolve or die, guess which one would make me happier. Oh and by the way do you think they even know what fair usage is?
- Swift2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When you give up your culture to a tribe of f***ing lawyers, guess what? Turns out, life is illegal. That way, more business for them.
- einsteindesign, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ deut...
like i said... two times earlier in the thread... it's the MELODY which is protected. So when you reverse-engineer the song, even if it's in a different shape or key, you can't publish it.
@ woozie...
"There is no freedom with copyrighted music. There is no fair-use"
Erm, no. In fact you couldnt possibly be more incorrect. Have you READ the fair use provisions within the copyright laws? You can make a copy of a CD for yourself. You can make a copy to share with your friends. Both are fair use. - jamesuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't actually give a flying monkeys if it IS copyrighted, the law should be changed if I can't read some lyrics or learn a song from the Internet because the harm to the artist is to all purposes none and the benefit to millions of people is great.
The most horrible irony is that song lyrics and tabs have had a great benefit on artists; probably one of the most positive ones from the Internet.
I often type in a few of the lyrics I hear from a song into Google to find the name of the song and the artist. Learning songs from tabs is another great way to learn about other musical acts. Both lyrics and tabs introduce people to new bands and music; something the music industry profits from and should appreciate. - gwjc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This one was happening long before napster and the rest. OLGA was always under attack. It is the saddest, most feeble of all the attacks on 'piracy', and a genuine attack on the fans of music (though shutting down the lyrics sites comes in a close second). Be interesting to see what happens when they tell the goog to flush the back catalogue of alt.guitar.tab, etc. Oh well, sleep now in the fire MPA... someday soon you'll be an unread little footnote about the extinct bureaucrasaurii that people had to suffer in the early part of this century; the last parasitic vestige of what slithered between the creators and enjoyers of art.
- Joeytg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Again, STOP buying the product. The recording industry will look at a petition the same way Washington politicians look at protest marches. A joke. Hurt them in the wallet, it's the only thing they will notice.
- Alniner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 Carl Fischer, LLC
65 Bleecker St.
New York, NY 10012
phone: 212.777.0900
fax: 212.477.6996
www.carlfischer.com
Lauren Keiser
laurenk@carlfischer.com
This is the f**ker who is responsible for the actions being taken. Call them, email them, wreck his life. He's wrecking mine.
Can't we sue them back somehow? That would be the best. - etruscan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If I write the tab for a song by U2, Phish, Radiohead, whatever... am I not allowed to post and share that?
- groucho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Does the MPA offer an online alternative to these websites? Perhaps they plan to offer a great advertisement based website with cool search and categorization features? Maybe we can buy a printable .PDF for a buck or something? Or are they simply trying to force everyone to accept their outdated model of selling books of sheet music? Can a website purchase a license to offer this material? Lots of questions.
- osuadh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1why don't the sites just say no to the mpa and force a court to decide whether posting lyrics online is legal? if you don't think what you're doing is illegal, than don't let the mpa bully you into taking down your site.
- Rabid_Llama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1inkswamp -- it's like the American Revolution. They got used to setting their own taxation rates, and when Britain stepped in and said, "Hey, wait, we've always been able to set tax rates, we were just being nice. Now pay up what you owe", the Americans decided to rebel.
So, you see, once a law or policy is ignored for more than a week, it is no longer considered valid. It's the American way! - troublemaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is so ***** stupid it's almost unbelievable.
What's next, we're not allowed to whistle copyrighted tunes?
I'm never buing a music CD ever again. - Schatze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Long live traditional folk music, abc notation, and archives of music in the public domain.
http://staffweb.cms.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/#collections - theWaterboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1..."Guitarists should learn how to read music! No other instrumentalists depend on little pictures to show them where their fingers should go"...
themeparkphoto, that is just ignorant. I majored in classical guitar, and read music perfectly. Although, I can read music-- I certainly disagree with your statement. When I learned how to play banjo, I was taught with guess what?? Yup, that's right-- tablature. It's the standard notation for the banjo.
The reality is that is quickly provides much more information for sight reading, or if you are just lazy and want the fingerings/pickstrokes/accents etc. - ocram, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't know how they claim this deprives songwriters of the ability to make a living, there is no mass market for song lyrics, if people can't get them for free most people aren't going to get them at all.
Also, there is no central licensing body AFAIK, and record labels are generally unresponsive to requests for further information. - learfan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Musicians who work only for money aren't artists. They are employees.
- CaughtThinking, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dear RIAA,
You are killing yourself and you don't even know it. It's been real, wont be sad to see you not here.
Love,
People Who Love Music. - SweetBallz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1***** this, 1984 has come nearly 22 years late. I say we archive all our powertabs together into a zip format and distribute them around p2p networks like Limewire and iMesh! Fight the power...uhh ***** yeah!
- mycatsboots, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"For what it's worth, I happen to work with one of the world's best guitarists, and his attitude towards instructional videos and tab has never wavered: just figure it out yourself. Otherwise you don't really learn anything."
To add to my last post, what makes these people the world's best guitarists? You can't classify guitarists as good and bad. Music is about passion and creativity. If any of you dare say that Vai or Malmsteen and etc are creative you are dead wrong. Let me write a brief musical equation
Emo/Punk: Intro + Verse + Chorus + Verse + Chorus + Bridge + Solo + Out
"Shredders": Intro + Verse + Chorus + Verse + Chorus + Bridge + Solo + Out
Difference? Yngwie uses the SAME DIMINISHED 7th patterns over and over again since day one, Tom Delonge from Blink 182 uses the same power chords over and over again. So one can't claim another guitarist is better than another. I'd dare say Tom Delonge is MORE creative than Yngwie. Honestly to all you guitar players who claim that Malmsteen and the like are good musicians, how many of you actually listen to their albums all the way through? I know myself (and almost everyone else on the planet) listen to a few cool riffs, learn them, and move on. Why? Because they are boring they play the same same thing over and over again with no passion.
There are no "world's best guitar players" there are just some players who know how to write ***** music that sells, and some who try to be innovative by playing minor scales at warp speed (any band geek can do that on their instrument after playing a few years). - jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The internet wasn't designed as a place to distribute derivatives of someone's creative work without their permission. You're free to distribute whatever information YOU have rights over, but that's it. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse people.
- starflyer3000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is similar to what happened to the OLGA (On Line Guitar Archive) years ago; the Harry Fox Agency (which represents a lot of bands) had OLGA in legal battles for a long-time. It was finally decided that they could post tabs, they just couldn't post lyrics with the tab (which definitely sucks, since the lyrics can tell you where to play something). A similar thing happened with the Christian Guitar Archive, where several "Christian" (actually owned by secular companies) labels forced them to take "their" songs down (they eventually got "permission" to post the tabs, again without lyrics included).
Anyway, this is something music publishers like Hal Leonard have been wanting to shut down for a long time.
What I find especially amusing about the whole thing is that this takes us back to where a lot of the copyright thing started: the publishing and copying of sheet music. - Braydon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is so against what they are trying to do...don't they realize that kids just starting to play read these tabs. Then they will cover a song live with their ***** garage band, and people will leave, yet reminded of the actual good song that was just mutilated on stage, and go get the real song (probably illegally downloaded :), but you get my point. I hope.....
- fckk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What the *****?! I can't search my favorite songs and play them?! That's some ***** up *****.
- ericpp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How can they do this? Tabs are based on someones interpretation of a song. It's not like they are stealing them out of one of the MPA's books.
- brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The thing that pisses me off is that when we stop buying their music, they point to the drop in sales and say "See - Thats from piracy!" They don't say, "Maybe we're offering ***** value for money or perhaps maybe we're ***** and everybody hates us and is disgusted with the idea of doing business with us."
- digikill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Try only buying music when the money goes directly from your hand to the artists. I have not bought a CD online or from a music store in years and I never plan to again.
/Django rules. - Redgoblin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Since the proliferation of really dull music circa 1990 and onwards in the field of popular music (RAP SOUL R&B, THE BOYBAND, THE SOLO SINGER) music isn't really music that can be actually written down, or even transcribed, the Music industry shot itself in the foot by trying to become all things to all people, the insiders 'your guitar playing gods'who actually played with notes so to speak have become the minority and now the people who own them and their badly transcribed works do the fans the ultimate dishonour by killing the sites that could in the future help save the music industry... I say download all their music, at the end of the day things could have been different if fashion and the Spears of this world never existed.. It's greed on large scale.. the need to chill out and listen to the real music
- flyingtrash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Link to a petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mioti/petition.html
More peoples to e-mail to at :
http://www.mysongbook.com/forum-posts-id_topic=25759.htm - rrittenhouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This has gone WAY the FU*K overboard! This pisses me off more than ANYTHING now!
So much for buying music ever again! Bunch of ***** BASTARDS!
~Tad -
Show 51 - 100 of 207 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is