What is Digg?90 Comments
- rasbill, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31vbsurfer
hip hop = sampling
its the mainframe of hip hop music, i am aware not everyone samples but it is the backbone of the genre, its why people fell in love with it, those old sounds with the syncopated vocals, and sampling isn't as easy as it seems to be, plus it got dummied up by the wannabes that literally just loop something up and call it a beat, but to sample like dj premier or say mix master mike, you have to have skills, to layer all those beats and rhythms together, and have them be on time, and the tones match, pitch, beats, its a very skillful art, its not mashing a bunch of ***** together because that doesn't always work, and to have an ear for that *****, and to do it so gracefully, another words, you have to be more then a music lover to sample, you have to be very skilled at knowing how music is put together in the 1st place, for a drummer a bass and a guitar player can work together to get a good sound, a sampling producer needs to have an ear for the samples to come together to sound like music, rather then a bunch of loops jammed over each other
so yeah, there are a bunch of music lovers hear (i think you have yourself confused with a meat lover, ha jk man chill)
and that sentance kept running and running and running... - addrake, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24Common, Tribe Called Quest, Freestyle Fellowship, The Pharcyde, and The Roots strongly disagree with that statement.
- addrake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I'm torn here..I hate people who misuse the copyright system (i.e. the RIAA) . However, seeing another company use the same laws the record companies misuse to show them the wrong side of a copyright lawsuit makes me giggle like a school girl.
- sideshowRAHEEM, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18i wonder witch one of those 99 problems sample troll is.
- levi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@syntheticfth
I guess if you call being booed offstage two years in a row at OZFest doing well, then yes they are and where are they now? - rasbill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8well im still not giving your mom her panties back
- 00Dan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Yeah, nothing innovative has ever been derived from sampling.
PS- Here's an album that would have never seen the light of day with current restrictions.
Paul's Boutique - Beastie Boys
* Ranked #156 in Rolling Stone's "The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time"
* Ranked #12 in Spin's "100 Greatest Albums, 1985-2005"
* Ranked #74 in VH1's Top 100 Albums
* Ranked #98 in Q's "Q Magazine Readers' 100 Greatest Albums Ever"
* Ranked #3 in Pitchfork Media's Top 100 albums of the 1980s
* Part of The Source's "100 Best Rap Albums" - optigon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Sampling does allow innovation to occur, because those people who sample effectively become meta-musicians. If it weren't for sampling, we wouldn't have a lot of common genres today in the electronic field. Hell, the entirety of the Drum & Bass genre is developed off the "Amen" break and James Brown's "Funky Drummer."
Sampling tracks and beats is a good way to use juxtaposition and to do things that aren't humanly possible. For those people who became big in the rap genre ages ago, it was an opportunity to do this sort of thing relatively cheaply. It, at the same time, allows someone to use reference to artists that may have inspired them.
There's a lot of art and meaning in the world of sampling. It's not just a matter of copying and looping someone as juxtaposing samples and sounds that would not normally be found together. It's just as much an art form as collage.
And while we're at it, to bring it more home, saying that you shouldn't sample is like saying you can't code using Objects. If it is there to be used, and you can use it in a different way, is that not your own program? Or should you hunt down the person that made the original object or library, and give them some cash? - FzArEkTaH, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10not to mention aesop rock, atmosphere, Cunninlynguists, MF doom, and many MANY others - people need to learn, that 98% of the rap music they hear on MTV or the radio IS NOT what hip-hop REALLY is.
On a side note, i quite enjoy hearing about these major labels getting sued :) - unitedkronos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Weird Al asks the artists before he uses their music for permission, and also pays royalties from the sales.
- LosingTheFight, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Here's the problem though. FTA:
Bridgeport claims to own those notes, and is demanding a fortune in damages...
Music is Art. Imagine if, for example, these laws existed in earlier times. Would Mozart or Bethoven have been able to fully express themselves? Granted I am NOT a music historian or expert, but I don't understand how a company can "own" a note or series of notes unless it was a trademark issue (for example, using the Jeopardy theme in the beginning of another show might confuse the "moron in a hurry"). What if this transfers over to paintings? And then programming? Can someone "own" println()? Or can someone "own" drawing a star in a specific way? - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Except that Armen Boladian didn't write *****. He's a suit who basically forged Clinton's signature to give himself rights to Clinton's stuff, then waited 20 years and started suing everyone. Patent and "Sample" trolls are leeches, human ticks that contribute nothing and enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else in society.
The best solution to this problem would be a bullet; some of these rappers should take a break from killing each other and save a round or twelve for Armen Boladian. - icupg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8For all the people who say "blah, blah, sampling sucks, it's not innovative, blah..."
check out Dj Shadow's: Endtroducing...
And The Avalanches': Since I Left You
Everything from those two records are sampled. Please, tell me how uncreative, and sucky they are. - darkened, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This shows why copyright needs to be completely restarted. Copyright should do nothing except protect artists from having their work directly or largely duplicated for commercial gain with out a license. There should be absolutely no other purpose of Copyright. It should expire in 7 years like it was framed in the original constitution or amendments that created it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Sampling/producing is just advanced dj'ing. That's why so many DJ's go on to become producers.
Premiere,Quick,Drama,Swizz Beats,Hi Tek,etc. - transeunte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"I'm not getting into this argument, because I talk to recording arts students everyday and they will back up everything I just said."
No, you're not getting into this argument because *you* can't back your own opinion. Learn how to talk without offending someone who just happen to disagree with you - and support their argument with anything but bad behavior. If I were you, I would've shut the ***** up when rasbill made you look like a clown. - Langford, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5That sounds pretty crummy, although the irony is hard to miss. The music industry essentially made the trolls appear by changing the laws, and now they will be the targets of the trolls. The real victims here are going to be the independent artist.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8what bitches they are!
- tacom8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I think what people fail to realize is that sampling, is not just a 5 second break or drum loop. Sampling can reach as far as a single kick, snare, clap, etc.. So what are the limitations on samples? Surely a 0.25 second clip doesn't represent the original work? If a company can hold the rights to these fundamental sounds, why can't I own an arbitrary sine wave and sue everyone's ass?
I for one love finding old school tracks that were sampled, and cool samples are in tons of songs. But there needs to be limitations on what constitutes the original works. I guess its the same old 1 and 0s debate. - PaGaNism, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm quite frankly bored to tears with all the Jay Z, Puffy, Kanye West lazy ass hip hop. We need more exciting innovators in Hip hop to get rid of those dull sample trolls. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not against using sampling .. Its just lazy sampling in music production that bothers me and the fact that someone like Jay Z could afford the cost of the sample if he had bothered to ask for its use in the first place.
- j3one, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5As much as these people/trolls sound like douchbags, and probably are, I say sock it too em.
"The trolls are turning copyright into the foe rather than the friend of musical innovation. They are bad for everyone in the industry—including the major labels. The sample trolls need to be stopped, either by Congress or by court rulings that establish sampling as a boon, not a burden, to creativity."
The irony is thick. Does the music industry really expect us to get up in arms about this? All of the sudden the major copyright reform you pushed for and got is coming back to bite you in the ass? Awww... To bad suckas. - dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -17/+21Unfortunately vbsurfer, I think you are being buried for having an understanding of what real talent is.
Here I come to join you. - HigherLogic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Actually, Weird Al doesn't sample music. Instead, he replays the music in the studio instead of using the original.
- wezzul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Good example. Outstanding album.
- ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"minimal or unnoticeable."
If it's so minimal or unnoticeable, howcome the "artists" under scrutiny didn't just create the sounds themselves? We're talking about artists here, right? - tkwill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It's impossible to define "real music". So get over it.
If you like the sounds and it feels musical to you - it is music.
If people like rap as music you can't tell them they're wrong. - mediaphile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@sideshowRAHEEM:
nobody's asking for sampling to stop. they're just asking to be compensated for use of something they own. i can't write a screenplay and use dialog from another movie without getting the rights to it. i can't film someone watching a movie on tv without getting rights to show the movie. so why is it unreasonable that hip-hop artists pay to use things they didn't create? just because they can't afford it? i can't afford a leica even though it would sure help me express myself. doesn't mean i'm entitled to it. - sideshowRAHEEM, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4phrozenone is right DJ Quik is the producer of the track and is also named in the lawsuit.
- milarepa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3jay lost
even farrakhan knows it.
www.fiyastarter.com/fs-pages/fs-specfeat-farrakhanjay.htm - wild, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7I thought Puffy was the Sample troll.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oh, Yeah!!
- ippersiel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Want to talk about originality? How about all rappers and hip hop artists saying
Wave your hands it the air, wave them like you just don't care... - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"what bitches they are!"
I wonder what this means for consumers. Does it mean copyright will start to become less restrictive, to stem the growth of these companies (as this guy is using copyright loopholes to get settlements), or is this going to make copyright even more intensive.
I'm hoping it'll draw back copyright at least enough so that we can post tabs online of songs. It seems like it's in the same legal ballpark. - humblepatience, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@vbsurfer
Oh yeah? Name some hip-hop artists who don't sample. Buy the CD, and then look on the back or in the case and tell me if you can find many who don't have tons of credits to different artists for samples.
Sure, some producers use beat machines or their own original base guitar, but almost always along with samples as well. The few exceptions are expiremental hiphop groups like Subtle, Anticon, etc, and even them employ a heavy use of samples - HigherLogic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I wasn't too suprised to come in here and see nothing but slams on Hip-Hop. It is, after all, Digg. The demographic holds true...
"It's a context issue, because not every sample is a huge chunk of a song. We might take a tiny little insignificant sound from a record and then slow it way down and put it deep in the mix with, like, 30 other sounds on top of it. It's not even a recognizable sample at that point. Which is a lot different from taking a huge, obvious piece from some hit song that everyone knows and saying whatever you want to on top of that loop. An example that's often brought up in court when we get sued over sampling is a Biz Markie track where he more or less used a whole Gilbert O'Sullivan song. Because it was such an obvious sample, it's the example lawyers use when trying to prove that sampling is stealing. And that's really frustrating to us as artists who sample, because sampling can be a totally different thing than that." —Beastie Boys - unitedkronos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What if a musician doesn't know if a sample they're using is illegal? It's often the case a sample CD claims to have original legally useable samples but actually doesn't, particually CDRs sold for cheap on eBay. If this was ever the case back in the late 70s and early 80s, underground music and mashups would have never surfaced.
- pegisys, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2DJs, on the other hand are a wierd middle-ground. They make their money by blending together works of others (and/or scratching to create an original sound). I'm sure DJs have to pay royalties if they sell recordings of their mixed music.
you know that's how hip-hop beats originated right, they used to just rap over a DJ mixing and scratching, it's just a tradition that has carried on - indicas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Tuplex: I agree completely.
As a musician myself, I am for sampling if the sampling is done in a new and innovative way. This is to say, I am against sampling a 4 second drum loop. I am not against sampling a 4 second drum loop which has had heavy processing and effects - so the end sound doesn't sound like the original sample; it is something new, someting unique. Sometimes sampling is truely needed (cases of very old instruments, etc). Parts for these instruments may not be available, and thus the sound may be lost unless it is sampled.
To say that making music using some samples doesn't make you a musician, or an untalented one at that, is asinine. The way I see it, it's not the tools you use, but how you use them. - sooperdooper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2There are lots of artists who willingly use uncleared samples as a major part of their works. There are lots of artists who try to clear their samples and, failing, decide that cutting out the uncleared samples would ruin their song. And there are dozens of thousands of tens of hundreds of artists who rip off older artists without even realizing.
The law is what's ***** up. Sample trolling is only making headlines because this is the first time it's happened to a really famous guy like Jay-Z. Maybe this will bring enough scrutiny to the issue to finally resolve it in favor of the artists. - contextclouds, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's impossible to listen to any style of music newer than the mid-80's and not have samples involved. It's not just hip-hop. If you're a fan of modern music, this should concern you.
- tkwill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"a corporation and / or government isnt going to make hip hop go away, neither are you."
Is there a war against Hip Hop that I don't know about? I like Hip Hop.
I'm more concerned about the garbage spewed out by a band like Jet. - NinjAlt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1...? Was I wrong? Or am I just getting modded down because a few people didnt and the sheep followed.
- addrake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Jesus man...F* the Police was N.W.A. Ice-T did Cop Killer
- unre4l, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1He's like the Jack Thompson of music, no wonder he has no friends *cough* I mean employees.
- ayeroxor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"sometimes people sample to pay homage to the original artist, sometimes its because it was recorded so raw that the sound cannot be reproduced, minuscule or not. sometimes its because that 1920 organ that was sampled doesnt exsist, or is impossible to get"
Creativity has to do with creating. If you can't find a sound you want, don't rip off something someone else created. Create your own. Make it new and better! - teethman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Pretty damn innovative.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Ice, Ice Baby!
- mediaphile, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@rasbill:
Mr. Punctuation is your friend. He misses you. Maybe you should make use of him more often. Make him feel as important as he is. You could even bring along his old friends Spelling and Grammar. Then together they could form a band. It would be named "English". They could practice every day in the hopes that the rest of the world would take their message seriously and give them more respect than their rival group "Unintelligible Garbage" gets. It's so crazy, it just might work. - shutupanddie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0According to the NY Post, pretty well. He got paid 600k because Shawn Carter stabbed him.
- uacheesehead, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@gr8one
I get it.. it just wasn't funny -
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