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Intelligence And Rhythmic Accuracy Go Hand In Hand

sciencedaily.com — People who score high on intelligence tests are also good at keeping time, new Swedish research shows. The team that carried out the study also suspect that accuracy in timing is important to the brain processes responsible for problem solving and reasoning.

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  • devaspark, on 04/29/2008, -5/+5i can't tell time :(
  • GIACOMOSAN, on 04/29/2008, -3/+15We all know another thing intelligence goes 'hand in hand' with.
  • pegothejerk, on 04/29/2008, -6/+32HA! That will teach you girls to tell me drummer jokes at my gigs. For some reason they never tell me those jokes when I'm the lead singer, guitar player, bassist. They don't even talk to me when I'm the keyboardist, though. Anyway, on behalf of all drummers, HA!
    • ninjadave, on 04/29/2008, -0/+8Most drummers I know can't keep time. Whats that tell you about people who WANT to be drummers?
      • Greatn3ss, on 04/29/2008, -3/+1I'm sorry, do you not know what drumming is?
      • kenplaysviola, on 04/29/2008, -2/+1I also know that a lot of drummers and musicians tend to speed up. It's hard to keep a consistent beat. Try this: get a metronome and set it to 60 beats per minute (1 sec). Start the metronome and start tapping and then turn off the metronome. keep tapping for about 30 beats and then turn on the metronome. Are you still with the metronome? Most likely not because you most likely sped up.
    • dinot, on 04/29/2008, -1/+28Q:What did the drummer say before he was kicked out?


      A:"hey guys, wanna hear my song?"
      • BrapAllgood, on 04/29/2008, -1/+2Or "Hey guys! What's in the box?".

        I've personally witnessed that one. :)
    • ashfish, on 04/29/2008, -3/+2i knew there was a reason i always liked the drummers. youre just hooking up with stupid girls eheh.
      • unearth, on 04/29/2008, -5/+1Dugg for *****, but buried for whorishness.
    • petrodollar, on 04/29/2008, -0/+6Yeah, all the girls will want to knock boots when you tell them how intelligent you are.
      • whereiseljefe, on 04/29/2008, -1/+5'Cuase intelligence has worked so well in the past in securing poon.
    • tacojohn48, on 04/29/2008, -0/+13Q: what do you call a guy who hangs out with musicians?
      A: a drummer.

      j/k I would have played drums if my mom would have let me
      • BrapAllgood, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Stupid Bobby Brady ruined it for many of us.
      • gfisher2, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1Q: How do you know when a drummer is at the door?
        A: The knocking speeds up.
    • caramba420, on 04/29/2008, -0/+2So why is it that the guy who is supposed to keep time can never seem to show up to practice on time?
  • lacreme, on 04/29/2008, -4/+6strange, a past article said that smart women have a hard time reaching orgasm. i thought rhythmic accuracy would help in that case.
    • pegothejerk, on 04/29/2008, -2/+5if you're keeping the same rhythm when with a woman, they should be telling you that you're doing it wrong.
  • horscategorie, on 04/29/2008, -6/+1Is this why my jackass friends are always late to everything?
  • elhaf, on 04/29/2008, -4/+2Nobody likes your drummer.
  • alphaterminus, on 04/29/2008, -2/+46I always knew MC Hammer was a genius.
  • theradical, on 04/29/2008, -3/+9well judging by most rock drummers, it doesn't work the other way round.
    • Dokument, on 04/29/2008, -2/+1im in the drumline :)
    • ein125, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Depends whether they can keep time or not. Maybe you just don't notice them speeding up or slowing down...

      Your comment reminds me of a joke:

      What's the difference between a drummer and gynecologist?
      A gynecologist only has to deal with one c*** at a time

      Cheers!
  • kingcorran, on 04/29/2008, -3/+19Not entirely accurate. I know a Stanford grad (Computer Science), 1550 SATs, 140+ IQ, etc etc who can't keep a beat to save his life.

    The premise may be correct, but at minimum it's not universal... of course.
    • davewashere, on 04/29/2008, -4/+8You're intelligent and you lack rhythm... you fit the description of every Jewish person I've ever known (I don't know Matisyahu).
      • kingcorran, on 04/29/2008, -1/+3Who's Jewish, and what does that have to do with anything?
      • nextyoyoma, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1what? Have you ever heard of, I dunno, Jascha Heifetz, Isaac Stern, Itzhak Perlman, Emanuel Ax, Leonard Bernstein, Daniel Barenboim, Josef Gingold, George Gershwin, or Randy Newman, just to name a few? Some of the most prominent musicians of the 20th century were/are Jewish. Just because you don't know them personally doesn't mean "lacking rhythm" is a Jewish trait.
        • davewashere, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1I've heard of Gerswin, and I know Bernstein was a composer and pianist who was mentioned in that R.E.M. song. Randy Newman? Yeah, I've heard of him, but do you really want to include Randy Newman on a list of prominent musicians? I'm not saying my stereotype is 100% accurate, I'm just saying I've been to a lot of Bar Mitzvahs.
          • nextyoyoma, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Err...do I want to include one of the most prolific songwriters of the late 20th century on a list of great musicians....And since you haven't heard of any of the other people on my list, I don't know that you should be the one to judge who's a great musician....
    • enicholas, on 04/29/2008, -1/+4I was a child prodigy -- started college at 13, was tutoring calculus at 14, and at 19 my employer sold a computer program I wrote for several million dollars (of which I unfortunately saw little).

      And I am absolutely incompetent in all musical areas. Completely tone deaf, absolutely incapable of keeping a rhythm, and it takes me about twenty attempts and intense concentration to be able to reproduce even a simple melody like "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" on a keyboard. As you would expect, my wife maintains that my musical appreciation is... severely lacking. So no, this is definitely not universal.
      • kingcorran, on 04/29/2008, -1/+1This guy's got the musical talent (singer, at least)... but no rhythm if it's not provided (e.g. singing with a group). Can't play drums or guitar, and if he solos he'll speed up or slow down (although note-lengths are find when memorized).
      • ninjadave, on 04/29/2008, -1/+2Sounds like your analytical skills are wonderful, but you didn't speak of your problem solving and reasoning.
        • enicholas, on 04/30/2008, -0/+3I would assume that the fact that I wrote a program worth millions of dollars as a teenager would speak to my problem solving and reasoning abilities. You can't be a successful programmer without being good at both, and I assure you I am very successful.
      • Merlaak, on 04/29/2008, -0/+3Actually, the article does not mention any kind of musical ability as an indicator of intelligence. I mentions the ability to repeat a rhythm that is tapped out, but specifically says that it is not a musical rhythm.
    • nosecohn, on 04/29/2008, -0/+4I've got to agree. There are too many counter-examples for this to be true. Sounds like some shaky science.

      I know a guy who has genius-level IQ, ivy league grad, brain like a steel trap, and can't keep time to save his life. I mean, it's embarrassingly bad, even when he's really working at it.
      • imikedaman, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1That's different too. The article talks specifically about the ability to tap to a beat with proper timing, not to show up at a meeting at exactly 2 PM. I don't see how so many people don't understand what "keeping time" is referring to, especially when it says it directly in the title.
    • bobartig, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Richard Feynman was a very accomplished bongo player. He could really go at it, playing bizarre rhythms. Of course, that's just one guy.
    • Calcularius, on 04/29/2008, -1/+2Anecdotes are not research.
    • chonuts, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1My brother is a superb drummer, studied classical jazz drumming for countless years, just an all-around good drummer. But the kid has no common sense and an incredible lack of attention. It has nothing to do with being a lousy test-taker or whatever; the kid just isn't that bright. But he can drum like hell.
      On the other end, my electrical engineering buddy, who's working on his Masters, can't keep a beat to save his life. When we're in the car rocking out to a song, I can feel the lack of timing, and it hurts. I watched him try to play drums on Rock Band and he nearly fell out of the chair. He's the most intelligent person I know.
      Correlations like this are never completely valid nor are they universal because there's too many variables. We don't understand enough about the brain and how the mind operates. You could do a study and find that 99% of current mathematicians can't swim, but it doesn't mean that you're predisposed to get an A in Calculus just because you can't swim.
  • freezerburn666, on 04/29/2008, -6/+3thats why i kick so much ass at fof and gh III :P
    • imnojezus, on 04/29/2008, -0/+5Not really. Those games are more about hand-eye coordination than actual rhythm.
  • Acronym, on 04/29/2008, -7/+2Why am I always wary of these kind of experiments? Probably because I see them spamming digg everyday...STOP IT...
    You cannot get smarter by music, and not by mozart either. Bury me
    • lacreme, on 04/29/2008, -0/+7evidently you haven't gotten smarter from music.
      • Acronym, on 04/29/2008, -6/+1says a guy who has the pope as his avatar LOL
        • noahhoward, on 04/29/2008, -0/+5That's not the pope it's Senator Palpatine
    • JavertHolmes, on 04/29/2008, -1/+4Looking at your comment history, this is one of your better trolls. Most people won't be able to resist correcting your lack of knowledge about the article.

      In the past, you've just relied on straight-up offensiveness, which is the sign of a weak troll.
  • mplsdigg, on 04/29/2008, -8/+29Apparently they haven't met many drummers.
  • jacenat, on 04/29/2008, -3/+30another example about how to mix up correlation with causation.
  • gabesobol, on 04/29/2008, -1/+12there has always been a strong correlation between musical abilities and mathematical abilities... I would love to jam with Issac Newton and discuss advanced calculus with James Brown.
    • nosecohn, on 04/29/2008, -0/+2This is another one of those stupid ideas that I grew up hearing. "Oh, you're a musician... you must be good at math (because music is based on math)." Having now met so many talented musicians who are lousy at math, this idea is, for me, thoroughly debunked.
      • clarient, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Music is not based on math. Music has existed for much longer than modern mathematics. You USE math to explain much of music and musical concepts, but there was never a point in time when somebody took a long look at algebra and wondered, "*****, how can I represent these equations AURALLY?"
      • airquotes, on 04/29/2008, -2/+1Im surprised I havent seen anything about blacks yet, quite surprised. It is said by many who enjoy a good generalization that black people have good rhythm.. Im a white bass player who has played in some all black bands except for me as the token white guy and I can see some truth to the rumor. My thought is that there is a certain part of the brain that gives one the ability to understand rhythm...I think possibly some black people may tend to be more advanced in this part of the brain, it is also in my estimation the same part of the brain that affects the ability to imitate sounds and I believe that is what makes some black comedians so talented, using different tones in speech intuitively as to entertain. now that might all be ***** and perhaps it is just a cultural thing where african music was more rhythmic from the start and it carried over.. perhaps there is a darwinistic use and disuse component to dna and that genetically these enhanced rhythmic abilities were cultured through a bloodline. I dunno. But they DO talk to much at the movie theatre, that is scientific fact ;)
  • TheObviousChild, on 04/29/2008, -1/+3Rock Band Drummers Unite!

    "They stress that the task subjects performed had nothing to do with any musical rhythmic sense but simply measured the capacity for rhythmic accuracy. "

    Well sonofabitch...
  • andyduncan, on 04/29/2008, -4/+2Band nerds FTW.
  • lineweight, on 04/29/2008, -4/+1This is precisely why chicks dig musicians. *YES!!!!*
  • JavertHolmes, on 04/29/2008, -1/+11I find the sound of blood rushing in my ears from having 3 big macs a day lets me keep 115 bpm pretty nicely.
    • ein125, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Dude,

      If you've been eating 3 big macs a day for any period of time, you're probably up to at least 132bpm
  • oilcan, on 04/29/2008, -2/+4there may exist a correlation, but it is not a universal trend. one of the most brilliant guys I know is tone deaf and has no rhythm at all lol
    • Parkinsons, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1"They stress that the task subjects performed had nothing to do with any musical rhythmic sense but simply measured the capacity for rhythmic accuracy."
      you are so funny lol
  • markp93, on 04/29/2008, -0/+12remember, walk without rhythm and you won't attract a worm.
    • blackjack75, on 04/29/2008, -1/+7Walk like a pimp and at least you'll attract laughter.
  • BXRWXR, on 04/29/2008, -2/+1FTA: "All in all, this suggests that a factor of what we call intelligence has a biological basis in the number of nerve fibres in the prefrontal lobe and the stability of neuronal activity that this provides," says Fredrik Ullén.

    Wow Fred, you think?
  • Merendino, on 04/29/2008, -1/+3Man that was a stupid article. I should be working. Wait what time is it...
  • andergriff, on 04/29/2008, -4/+4See? Rap artists REALLY are geniuses. Hey, Boeing and Microsoft! You don't need all those 1HB visas. Just go out and hire all those rap singers and dancers!
    • pegothejerk, on 04/29/2008, -0/+4hate to tell ya, but rap artists don't make their own beats.
      • sith333, on 04/29/2008, -3/+1Yes but they can keep impeccable rhythm when actually rapping to a beat (if they're any good).
    • clarient, on 04/29/2008, -3/+6'Rap artist' is an oxymoron.
  • Shots, on 04/29/2008, -2/+9Don't laugh at this people.. this is some serious sht!

    I can see the day that I walk into an interview for some senior role, and see a dance dance revolution machine......or make my employees have DDR competitions.
  • 2ndAlto, on 04/29/2008, -2/+0does this mean smart people should be better at practicing the rhythm method?
    • ein125, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Yep,

      Hasn't failed me yet. Also, the timing of withdrawal is crucial...
  • evillawngnome, on 04/29/2008, -1/+2One more reason to have Rockband in the house.
    • ein125, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Yeah,

      At least you'll have something to do whilst your girlfriend/wife propagates the species with someone worthwhile
  • debuffplx, on 04/29/2008, -4/+3The article assumes that the current methods to measure intelligence are correct and therefore anything that correlates with those tests are also correct. Get back to me when we have a scientific method to measure intelligence or even a way to define intelligence.
    ***** Australia.
  • ausfahrt, on 04/29/2008, -0/+2Didn't know you needed rhythm to tell time.
  • saxreturns, on 04/29/2008, -5/+2Then how come my IQ is 144 but I'm a terrible bass player? Guess I must be the exception to the rule.
    • onetimer, on 04/29/2008, -3/+4Because IQ is a weak indicator of intelligence.
      • whereiseljefe, on 04/29/2008, -0/+3Why are people digging you down? You are technically correct.
        • laserblazer, on 04/29/2008, -0/+4IQ is a great bit of pseudo-science, and a popular meme. That's why. People with average or humble intelligence are intimidated by people who score well on these tests, despite often being more clever, more intelligent or more talented. Intelligence is impossible to quantify, and any scientist who espouses the importance of so-called IQ tests is a hack.
    • laserblazer, on 04/29/2008, -2/+1Practice. I'm in the same boat.
    • N256, on 04/29/2008, -1/+5Because Tickle doesn't make a very accurate IQ test.
      • laserblazer, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Tickle Schmickle, Mr. Defensive.
      • saxreturns, on 04/29/2008, -3/+3What's Tickle? I took the Mensa test thanks very much.
    • DeFex, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1coordination might be different than banging something with a stick
  • f4nt0m4s, on 04/29/2008, -2/+4Anyone can keep a beat, but my hat goes off to all the jazz, metal, and avant-garde musicians out there. Jazz raised the bar for complicated musical structures, and it has had a huge influence in metal. There's no doubt in my mind that the drummer for Meshuggah, Psyopus, or Don Caballero are pretty smart guys. And, once you start using polyrhythms and ghosting notes, you add another layer of complexity to already difficult music.
    • whereiseljefe, on 04/29/2008, -0/+3Actually Blues and Classical had a huge influence on metal, Jazz not so much. Metal is in general far more structured than the free-form jazz. It had an influence on being a rule breaker I guess...

      Closest thing to metal that Jazz had a primary/huge influence would be the Progressive genres (Prog Rock, Prog Metal, Prog [insert other genre here]).
      • f4nt0m4s, on 04/29/2008, -0/+2Eh, I'm poised to disagree. I think classical and jazz both have had their influence on prog rock, as seen in King Crimson or Frank Zappa's music. Metal has been influenced by classic, blues, and jazz. Bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan and Fantomas have less in common with classical and more with avant-garde or jazz. And, a lot of the stuff you can pull out of the John Zorn catalog is jazz-metal. Progressive rock is pompous and overrated, and a lot of it tries to draw influence from classical music. But, the reality is artists like Stravinsky eventually influenced artists like Ennio Morricone, who influenced guys like John Zorn and Mike Patton, who are both outputting "metal." You can draw other comparisons too.
        • kitsua, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1Don Caballero, Frank Zappa and Stravinsky. Sir, consider yourself truly Dugg.
    • shagen454, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Damon Che from Don Cab is always ***** wasted when he plays. Flips people off, let's his balls hang out of his boxers, pushes people over and even takes the van and abandoning all the band members in Atlanta, GA. But, I guess if he can pull off his amazing drum capabilities that drunk he must be intelligent underneath it all?

      There must be difference between keeping time and intuition. Look at many minimalist composers where musicians would improv off-time intuitively, sometimes not in time whatsoever in order to begin a change in a pieces rhythmic structure but seems to sync up amongst the regular structure, some of Lou Harrison's, some of Terry Riley's and La Monte Young's work come to mind. I know a few people that can't even seem to keep 4/4 personally that play interesting off-time music - even people like Derek Bailey can't seem to keep time but intuitively comes off rather interesting sometimes.
  • elfprince13, on 04/29/2008, -1/+1I generally test in the top half a percentile or so, and I'm the most rhythmically challenged person i know.
  • sunebeck, on 04/29/2008, -0/+0You saying I can improve my intelligence by playing Super Crazy Guitar Maniac Deluxe 3 ?!
    Oh well off to http://www.kongregate.com/games/Shinki/super-crazy ...
  • pintomp3, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1no wonder the guys from the band 'boston' were so smart.
  • darkism, on 04/29/2008, -0/+2One trip to an arcade full of DDR-obsessed weeaboos should be enough to disprove this.
  • kidora, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1This is kinda rad!
  • davidlow, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Both abilities, intelligence & rhythm, are enhanced by a well-rounded education; so one would expect them to be correlated with each other. Personal income would be correlated, too, but it wasn't included in the study.
  • cynic573, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1beatmaniaIIDX may be the hardest rhythm game out there, but I still know some retards that are amazing at it. ¯(°_o)/¯
    • ein125, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1Maybe they're geniuses and your the retard.....

      Think about it
  • azpat, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1Good. Let's have Clinton and Obama compete in a keeping-time contest. Come to think of it, why not ask candidates to take an IQ test. (I know why, because IQ tests are *****).
  • zyklon, on 04/29/2008, -1/+1This gives a little insight as to why all my MENSA friends are incredible musicians.
  • asspants, on 04/29/2008, -1/+1timing can be learned through repetition and muscle memory. you can teach a monkey to play the drums and keep time given enough resourses and time. this is pure speculative *****.
    • Dystisis, on 04/29/2008, -1/+3Timing and rhythm can indeed be learned, but intelligence can also be improved. Of course, when you are beating a rhythm (or better yet, play it as a drummer), you are using your brain. Maybe not so much in the stereotypical crappy 4/4 beats of western popculture, but a lot more so when playing for example 9/8 or polyrhythm (or polymetric passages). Drumming, beyond the surface level of your average local rock teens, is far from as easy as it looks.
      • davidlow, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1A well-rounded education enhances both rhythm and IQ test scores. That accounts for the correlation shown in the study.
      • asspants, on 04/29/2008, -0/+2I'll dig you up, because I see the dumbasses who got butthurt when you insulted their stereotypical crappy 4/4 beats of western popculture gave you the thumbs down for your surprisingly insightful retort.
  • colorme, on 04/29/2008, -0/+7I always thought that Stephen Hawking would bust a move, if given the chance.
  • MrFurious2k, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1This seems to imply Shatner's rhythmic usage of the language to be an odd sign of intelligence.
    Spock...they've... crippled our... shields... without which... we're subject to the eddies... of that gravitational anomaly! We...could be.... crushed!
    • whereiseljefe, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1You mistake overdone acting for rhythmic meter.
  • JonKacz, on 04/29/2008, -0/+0Eh, for those who are intelligent but not able to hold a beat, consider the communication between the part of the brain they're focusing on and your neuromuscular system. There may be some static in the messages between the front lobe and the peripheral nervous system. It seems that this rhythm would be more of an internal clock rather than what is manifested physically. Also, it's just a correlation NOT causation and has nothing to do with music.

    aside: One time i made an Elio's pie and set the timer for 14 minutes then went to watch TV. When I thought the pizza was going to be done, I started a countdown from 10 to 1 and immediately after I said 1 the timer went off and my roommate freaked out. YES!!!!
  • Noonward, on 04/29/2008, -1/+1well rock drummers arent good at keeping time you guys dont get too cocky haha
  • Dystisis, on 04/29/2008, -1/+0I don't find this weird at all. All the arts and things in life follow the same (physical) laws. Understanding one of them (rhythm, how it relates to mathematics/geometry and time), is not much different than understanding them all. You just gotta realize it. Of course rhythmic accuracy is connected to intelligence, just like mathematical brilliance is. Rhythm is geometry over time. Geometry is mathematics over space.
  • raintheory, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1explains why there is like one drummer for the whole town i live in. busy guy, needless to say.
  • RobbieF, on 04/29/2008, -0/+2First Thought:

    Steve Martin in The Jerk

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079367/
  • TheMidnight, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1BS. I'm decently intelligent and I can't even clap on time...but then again I can play some mean DDR.
  • seanmc303, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1This means that Keith Moon was the smartest man on Earth.
  • bjs3171, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1interesting. then tell me why so many Jewish people have negative rhythm.
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