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Hip Hop Sales Collapsing: "They can no longer fool the white kids."

time.com — Hip-hop now faces a generation that takes gangsta rap as just another mundane marker in the cultural scenery. "It's collapsing because they can no longer fool the white kids," says Nickels. "There's only so much redundancy anyone can take."

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  • canewediggit, on 10/10/2007, -17/+560and it's the best thing to happen to hip-hop in a decade. this will bring about the return of real hip-hop where lyrical content matters. common just sold more records than he ever has in his first week, rock the bells is packing them in with a roster of non-gangsta artists, and the underground scene is vibrant. the sales numbers may not get back to the point they have been, but the quality will be better.
    • tarquell, on 10/10/2007, -26/+8agree, thank *****!
      • Araxen, on 10/10/2007, -36/+19RAP IS DEAD!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!
        • Neiby, on 10/10/2007, -11/+37If only. 99% of rap and hip hop is pure *****. Have some random kid from the projects write down a bunch of stupid ***** that almost rhymes then give him a drum machine and you've got a new artist. And it's always the same ***** over and over again. When I'm listening to music, I really don't give a ***** about how great the artist thinks he is. Why do rap and hip hip artists have to brag themselves up? It's just ***** stupid *****. Once in a while I run across some that I like, but it's rare.
          • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18Exactly. Moreover, the thing that has always bothered me is that hip hop/rap or music in general has never been the focus of the "artists". You see most of these rappers who were popular 5-10 years ago are now record co execs, actors, celebrities of some sort. They didn't get into music for their passion for art or their love of music: it's was only a tool. They used it as a tool to get rich and to move up the ladder. They could care less about music or what it means or any of that. All they want to do is be sensational to get attention so people will buy their records so they can make more money then move on to making movies or something else.

            I can have a lot of respect for someone who is a real artists, a real musician who can spin lyrics and create beats and weave them together to create something great and especially when that person has a passion for doing so. But that's not what hiphop is. Maybe in the very beginning, but not now, nor has it been for a very very long time. I'm sick of bands and artists being brands.
          • damnation, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Bring da Ruckus...... if you understand, then you know one of the last REAL rap groups.
          • TaylorSmythe, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2What a grave misunderstanding of hip hop culture!

            ***** that "barely rhymes" and battle rap bragging... That's not what hip hop is about. It's about the upliftment of humanity, it's a commentary on being alive, it's a means to connect with people who share the same problems as you and I (regardless of location, economic status, or some unimportant *****). Yes, I enjoy battle rap but that is not what keeps me coming back to hip hop. It's a genre full of some of the most talented people of our generation, and if you can't understand that because some people suck, you are missing out on some of the most honest art the world is producing today!
          • GliTCH82, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Brands wouldn't really bother me so much if there was quality to them. It's the lack of quality that makes this system fundamentally retarded.
        • damnation, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7hit it right on the button for me. I occasionaly like to listen to some rappers who really have no actual talent, just have a large bank roll to fund them. Hopefully this will get rid of all the Lil John's and Mike Jones out there who all they can manage to talk about is their teeth and how many woman they slept with.
          • kalkin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4you know the 90's was when hip hop peaked. i listened to hip hop back when it was breakdance. it just got better and better. the 90's were fantastic. quality artists and albums popping up each month. it was really a golden age. let me think... black moon, wu-tang (pre-mtv), raekwon's first album (who can forget when they first listened to that album?), redman, alkoholics, das efx, smoothie da hustler, i could go on but i simply can't remember all the goodness. anyway after mtv jumped on the band wagon and popularised it, made it a common product. now we have c%nts like 50cent and eminem ruling the roost. let me tell you something hip hop was my favourite music. the last time i bought a hip hop album was about 5 years ago. hip hop died a long time ago.
          • TaylorSmythe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Kalkin, you are most likely making the correct judgement based upon the scene that you see... But here in the Bay Area, where underground music flourishes and real artists exist in the hip hop world, just like they do in cities all over the world, it's plain to see, hip hop is far from dead. You are judging by mainstream music, and history shows us - the mainstream has almost always been the last to learn (except in "golden age"s such as the one you speak of).
          • kalkin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0perhaps you are right. for me, what seems to have happened is that i've outgrown hiphop at the same time as it became the new pop music. i've also noticed this with a lot of my friends of similar ages.
      • peevegrider, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2I dont know yall, the screw tapes still bang hard in the south
        • madzombiekilla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I hope you are joking. That ***** is garbage.
      • humperdeath, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Interesting headline quote, but I don't think is is so much a racial thing, but an intelligence thing. More black kids are getting smarter, which is good, and then they get bored with this type of music. It is rebellious music, and MOST people associate Gansta rap with, well, gangstas. And who really wants to be in that group?
        • link5280, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The majority of rap is bought by white teens.
        • tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Pathetic white suburban teens. Or at least they used to want to be in that 'gangsta' group.
          • humperdeath, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Because maybe they are willing to pay for it. 'others' just borrow copies or download it, you know, STEAL it.
    • OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 10/10/2007, -4/+21I'm a huge common fan, but to be fair, saying he just sold more records than he ever has in his first week isn't saying much. Even with 2 albums that most hip hop fans consider "classics" under his belt.
      • HeyArnold, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10yea, this is because common is one of the rare hip hop artists out there with talent.
        • flashon, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Or maybe you are just ignorant, illiterate or don't know how to use Google (or maybe all 3).
      • stubadub, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1And in reality he sold less copies of this album than he did his previous effort, but everything else sold so much less that he landed at number 1 instead of number 2 like last time. He sold almost half as many records as the first week's sales of "Be"
    • Tyr7BE, on 10/10/2007, -2/+27Exactly. Mainstream may be collapsing, but underground is still thriving. To the listener with distinguished tastes there's a wealth of amazing hip hop out there. Just check out some of the latest from Stones Throw records for an example ( this one comes with my personal recommendation: http://www.stonesthrow.com/nowagain/ )
      • NJank, on 10/10/2007, -28/+15heh... hiphop and distinguished tastes. Thanks, needed a chuckle.
        • Tyr7BE, on 10/10/2007, -3/+24Well granted it's not Nickelback or Blink 182, but hey everyone has to start building their tastes somewhere right?

          Keep your ear out of the gloryhole and you'll hear hip-hop with class - stuff that draws its influence from classic jazz and wild 70's style funk. Koushik's 'Be With' paints vibrant 60's psych with a hip-hop brush, Madlib's recent Beat Konducta release fuses hip-hop and sultry indian grooves for a bumping set that won't quit, and his older release 'Shades of Blue' is made entirely of samples from the Blue Note catalog, and is basically sex in auditory form (I figure I should probably break this down for you at this point, based on your reply to my comment - Blue Note is a very famous Jazz label. You probably won't see any of it on MTV, but it's pretty much the catalog of source beats for the 20th century). Oh No just came out with 'Dr. No's Oxperiment', a hip-hop-esque album made entirely of samples from Mediterranean psych music. These are all artists who have more talent and taste in the tips of their fingers than was cumulatively showcased on MTV over the course of the 20th century.

          But hey, feel free to dismiss every one of them because they're not boy-punk or *****-rock. Your loss.
          • canewediggit, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7it is impossible to hate on shades of blue. one of the best albums of any genre, ever.

            that new beat konducta is nice too. if you like that, check out dan the automator's bombay the hard way.

            now where is my quas/pe shirt? they need to get that ***** in stores already.
          • tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There's still some rap out there that's not gangsta? I like the style of the music, but most 'mainstream' rap is absolute crap.
      • Murdats, on 10/10/2007, -9/+23you may be right. but mainstream has killed the sound for me all together.
        anytime I hear hip hop it makes me want to gag and remove my eardrums.
    • Bartboy919, on 10/10/2007, -11/+139We need more rap songs that sound like the Fresh Prince Theme.
      • NiteMayr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+46Despite the snark, I think we need more rappers like the Fresh Prince (Circa 1985-1992) who care as much about what they are saying as they do about how they "look" . It certainly didn't hurt his sales back then.

        People may dislike Will Smith for his white bread lyrics and squeaky clean image, but he and Jazzy Jeff (among others) created accessible kid friendly rap with some creative and entertaining lyrics, all without demeaning anyone (well, maybe Will Smith was demeaned in the eyes of REAL hip-hop fans)


        • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -29/+6"Will Smith for his white bread lyrics "

          I hate Will Smith because he is a empty-headed coca-cola product. I hate you for the racist slur against white people, and white culture.
          • GawtMilk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7...I'm white and it didn't offend me. It's true...rap has been unnecessarily "Parental Advisory" for too long. When people run out of rhymes, they add "*****", "ho", and "bitch" just for the fun of it. It makes the songs all sound the same.

            Rap used to be an expression. Check out the song "Changes" by 2Pac or the rap verse in the Michael Jackson song "Black and White". They've got feeling along with the rhymes, and they are two of the best rap verses ever.
          • NiteMayr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5This is the weakest troll EVER.
        • adooga, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9"I like that Will Smith - he raps HAPPY"
          • NiteMayr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"I like that Will Smith, he puts together innovate rhymes about Freddy Krueger and going out and partying with girls; but in a way that I don't think is objectionable for my kids. Read, he doesn't have to rhyme ***** with *****, which is more than some rappers are capable of."

            Again, weak troll.

            Aaaaw Hell Naw, you ain't gonna make a million for just saying "Hell Naw" Not Yours.

      • MarkOfTheDead, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6check out Slick Rick's first few albums
        • NiteMayr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1yah, Slick Rick was on the same tip, Young MC, Maestro Fresh Wes, Mi Phi Me stuff that parents couldn't dump out of hand. I had to justify almost every album I owned if it had a damn tipper sticker on it.

          You should have seen the grilling I got over "Yo! Bum Rush the Show" (For those of you who have no idea, it contained a song title "Sophisticated Bitch") on the same note, I didn't have to justify "You saw my blinker bitch" on a Fresh Prince Album.
      • Airjuggernaut, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Now this is the story all about how
        My life got flipped, turned upside down
        And Id like to take a minute just sit right there
        Ill tell you how I became the prince of a town called bel-air..................
    • sofaKing812, on 10/10/2007, -5/+34Agreed, but I think that you can still have the "gangsta" image and deliver lyrically. B.I.G. and Nas (Illmatic) are solid proof of that.
      • indicas, on 10/10/2007, -13/+18Can't forget WuTang .. C.R.E.A.M. is claaaaaassic
        • ChromaVita, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11I don't know why you are being dugg down. Wu Tang is amazing. Maybe it's all the A's you decided to put in Classic.
    • DaveAtDigital, on 10/10/2007, -1/+72i wouldn't underestimate the stupidity of white suburban gangsters
      • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -16/+9...I'll guess you wouldnt underestimate the stupidity of black urban gangsters either I hope.
      • joegibes, on 10/10/2007, -1/+37Real gangstas have vines on their curtains.
    • WaltJay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8"Be" sold more copies its first week than "Finding Forever", but I agree with your point!
    • cullenjack, on 10/10/2007, -9/+14Common? Doesn't he rap for the "Gap" now.
    • HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Agreed. Mainstream rap is just played out right now. They covered all the angles and ran each one to its limits.

      This is all fine, it's great for the genre to take some time off and regroup. The underground artists will take care of this. We'll all listen to something else in the meanwhile and just like happened with other genres, in 6-10 years, rap will be back with new ideas and ready to go.
      • bloodsport, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Lie. they haven't covered all the angles. They're covering one ***** angle over and over.
      • Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5That's if there isn't a quiet revolution and super depression, collapsing the already paper thin economic culture that evolved around rap. ... We;re doomed...
      • Username222, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4You mean, mainstream rap explored every "angle" of a woman's butt that they can get away with. And then they also explored every "angle" of a guy throwing cash into the air. I always had this haunting feeling that Puff Daddy and Juvenile would kill rap in some way...
    • illt, on 10/10/2007, -2/+19i wouldnt' call what Time is referring to Hip-Hop.
      More like manufactured rap-pop.
    • manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I would personally like to see more artist that are able to do a good show. They're very few rappers that can rock the mic live. Watching KRS -ONE do his thing -besides all of the lecturing- is amazing. However, I couldn't watch Dipset for more than five minutes.
      • Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I get all rap-like and start shooting at people whenever I hear Dipset. I can't stand those nit witted jokes for more than 10 seconds.

        Oops.. I forgot to add. Namby Pamby, Jessica Tandy, I like Candy. ...See? ATHF can rap better than these cartoons
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I saw a video the other day in which the artist looked like a light skinned lil' Wayne only he was from France. The world over see the formula of hip-hop here in Amer. and copy it. A copy or a copy of a copy.

      In the early 90s there was a crossroads that could have shown the world a more creative & artistic version of hip-hop/urban americana. The record companies chose gangsta rap.
      • robcapozzi, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1no, the people chose gangsta rap, we as a whole bought demanded it and the record companies supplied it
      • adooga, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Hmmm, a bit of both, methinks.
    • neodorian, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11This is just like people getting sick of hair bands in the early 90's. They had taken hard rock and made it into a caricature of itself in order to keep up with what was cool and sold records to kids. Rap is a younger sub-genre or pop music so it's gonna go through it's evolution just like any other. Genres of popular music aren't so clearly defined when you step back or look at them over time. This is just one phase where this kind of music got played out by record labels.
    • CompACE, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8You're 100% right on this one. People need to hear more from artists like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, and Common. Expresses my sentiments exactly - Great Post.
    • MatthewDuke, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3Money, hoes, and clothes...
      All Matt Duke knows...
    • vSuperLuminal, on 10/10/2007, -10/+0Did you seriously just use "real" and "hip hop" in the same sentence. You keep using that word, "real", but I think you don't what is means. You keep using that word, "hip hop", but I think you don't know what it means.
      • vammirato, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Please enlighten us on the true definitions...
    • vammirato, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Common, Casual, MF Doom, Copperpot, Non-Prophets, MC Paul Barman, Swollen Members, Sweatshop Union, Brother Ali, Sage Francis, Talib, De La....they are all great examples of a vibrant hip-hop community.

      Please don't tell me hip-hop is collapsing just because 2/3 of what being produced is pure crap. There is just too many artists subscribing to the same old hip-hop recipe...heavy base with Akon (or a clone) wailing about beautiful girls.

      The good is that, when you find that GEM (Somersault with MF DOOM for example), you can be assured you are one of the few enjoying true hip-hop.
      • gobispinster, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Thats prolly one of the best feelings in the word, when u find totally obscure music that mainstream listeners couldnt even begin to imagine where to find it! the saddest thing is, there's hip hop out there like k'naan-The dusty foot philosopher, which no one gets to hear, cuz record labels focus on the 50 cents.
    • Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -5/+13TUPAC IS ALIVE! I saw that ***** in the porno, "Thailand Asian Gangbang Episode #777" Second Scene, he comes in the third act and gives a shoutout to lebron james' nba draft pick. Then he threw up the westside sign.

      THAT *****'Z ALIVE!
      • slayerab, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3If you hit the table the CD's gonna skip (gonna skip) see I told you, stop hitting the table!
    • Subterfug, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11You're so right. Rap or hip hop isn't my musical preference (I'm a metalhead/rocker myself), but I know the good artists in the genre and why they are good. REAL hip hop - like any good music - is powerful, moving and is an expression/reflection of the changing world.

      PS.

      PRO TIP: "This is why I'm hot," "Every day I'm hustlin," and "Party like a rockstar" repeadet 50,000 times is not hip hop.
      • Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1LEAN WID IT!
        • tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Mainstream gangsta rap is good for one thing only: parodies. It's practically a caricature of itself anyway.
    • jamdogg, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Yeah boi
    • WorldLeader, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6My friend was once a huge fan of that hip-hop and gangsta rap, but then I shared Radiohead's OK Computer with him.

      He realized pretty fast that his rap was garbage compared to actual, thought-out lyrics.
    • Timbo1970, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I don't know.... Hip-Hop could still have a long life. It just seems to make good economic sense to copy-paste a real musician's music under your repetitive lyrics and sell it to the ignorant masses.
      I'd do it, but clicking and dragging a few layers from a Queen or Dido song so I can sing to it seems too much like real work.
    • vichussmith, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I totally agree. Hip Hop doesn't have much that's fresh and new in the Mainstream. We need some actual original lyrics in hip-hop instead of "I'm tougher than you" "let's party" "we're having sex with more women than you."

      Yeah, party songs are alright, but BLECH. Give me more conscious, talented lyricists. When that happens, then people can stop whining about rap being a negative influence on kids.
    • tacomachris, on 06/18/2008, -0/+0This will require hip hop to elevate to a new level. The same thing happened to rock-n-roll.

      We talk about it all the time on www.hiphop1.net
  • alpha2omega, on 10/10/2007, -26/+187Its no surprise, to me. When you think of rap/hip hop - you think of gangsta rap. So much so that most people don't even realize that that 'gangsta' rap is a genre. Ignorant people see rap and gangsta rap as the same thing when in fact that couldn't be further from the truth. Its a shame that besides Common (and a few others) the only rappers people know about are the gangsta rappers.
    That being said:

    Wu Tang Clain ain't nuthin to ***** wit.
    • coit, on 10/10/2007, -52/+36When I think of rap, I think of no talent, gimmicky, garbage.
      • GoatBn, on 10/10/2007, -13/+34well congrats, you are the person alpha was refering to.

        Stop being so simple. If you want to judge hip-hop, go listen to De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Common, Atmosphere etc before you generalize the entire artform.
        • shredswithpiks, on 10/10/2007, -6/+4atmosphere is party/club rap now :(
          • wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8In another recent thread, someone suggested "oh, Atmosphere is so unlike all the other popular stuff, if you dont like rap, give him a listen and you'll see what "real" rap is"

            I listened, and the lyrics were shallow, anti-intellectual and trite. The music was rehashed trash I'd heard about 100000 times in this genre.

            Face it, rap is dead as disco.
          • TaylorSmythe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1wageslaven, you must have listened to the wrong song. There are a couple that are jokes. Try the album GodLovesUgly, it starts off with a couple battle rap songs but then gets into some revolutionary hip hop content!
        • chrismgtis, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1You can owe that to rappers of the world and those that buy their records. This "gangster" rap is what sales and that just might say loads about rap fans and artists like, in no positive sense.
        • Otto, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10"If you want to judge hip-hop, go listen to De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Common, Atmosphere etc before you generalize the entire artform."

          I've heard them. They suck. IMO, of course, but my opinion is what counts for music that I listen to.
        • TaylorSmythe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Otto, I can guarantee that there is hip hop that you would love to listen to. You just haven't found it yet.
      • TWINFM, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well that's what is at the heart of this article, but it isn't exclusive to rap..."While music-industry sales have plummeted, no genre has fallen harder than rap." All music sales are plummeting...The majority of bands in all genres of music are "no talent gimmicky garbage." For every one good band/group/artist, there are ten bad ones...and that is probably a little optimistic. $+ART=Garbage
    • VAXcat, on 10/10/2007, -14/+10 Amen, brother. I often am dismayed by the rich irony that in an era where you can get high power low distortion stereo gear practically for free (compared to what H-FI gear cost back in the day)...and this generation uses it to listen to rap so-called music, a genre where faithful reproduction of the music by your listening gear in not an issue (that's putting it mildly). Thank the gtods, it looks like this dark era is almost over.
      • FriskDown, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7Couldn't have said it better. What ever happened to music sounding GOOD? It's a shame that any hip-hop or "gangsta rap" genre ever got popular. Mindless dribble. Start digging me down, "haters"!
        • adooga, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Why bother digging you down? I don't care what you think :)
        • vichussmith, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ditto on that. No one cares enough about your ignorant comment to digg you down.
    • n33b, on 10/10/2007, -2/+28TIGER STYLE!
    • gorilla, on 10/10/2007, -3/+34Shaolin shadowboxing, and the Wu-Tang sword style
      If what you say is true, the Shaolin and the Wu-Tang could be dangerous!
    • farkdog, on 05/20/2008, -15/+3When I think of rap, I think of ignorant, bad-grammar-speaking thugs with no future other then selling drugs and prison.

      I guess the "bad guy" image was interesting for a while, but people are coming to realize that the lifestyle portrayed may look flashy from time to time but in the end they all end up the same - losers in prison. Not very inspirational.

      • TaylorSmythe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You're listening to the wrong hip hop. To hear hip hop that is different from that, check out my last.fm account.

        http://www.last.fm/users/Taylor_smythe/
      • tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Exactly. When you think of rap, you think of gangsta rap. Gangsta rap is (an admittedly large) subset of rap.
    • lacr, on 10/10/2007, -7/+6"Shacklin the masses with drastic rap tactics
      Graphic displays melt the steel like blacksmiths"

      "My deadly notes reigns supreme
      Your fort is basic compared to mine
      Domino effect, arts and crafts
      Paragraphs contain cyanide"

      "My beats travel like a vortex, through your spine to the top of your cerebrum cortex
      Make you feel like you bust a nut from raw sex
      Enter through your right ventricle clog up your bloodstream
      Now terminal, like Grand Central Station"

      Case closed, ***** radio rap.
      • lacr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Case not closed, ***** dysfunctional comment editing systems. Sorry!
    • Wormfather, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4You're right, but at the same time it seems as though most rappers dabble between gangsta, hip hop and sometimes even classical rap.
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -9/+4To all you hiphop Hater's:
      What other type of music can produce an Old Dirty Bastard and an Oscar Nominee that turned down MIT (Will Smith). True artists free-controversial and brilliant

      but yeah, I agree with NAS's interpretation of "Hip Hop is Dead"
      if hip is dead we die together
      • Maarek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Punk has Greg Graffin (P.H.D. Zoology/Evolutionary Biology Cornell) and has produced many many radical thinkers easily in line with ODB.

        Don't get me started on Jazz and Blues :P as just starting a list would be nearly impossible.

        I am not taking away from Hip Hop here, but good thoughtful musicians are equally valuable no matter what genre they write in. The problem with Hip Hop (warning, I am white but grew up in the early 90's listening to a lot of the more classic hip hop/rap... RUN DMC, EZ-E, Grand Master Flash... I may not have the culture [I'm more punk] but I've always enjoyed rebellious expressions of distaste with society) as I see it is that the "mainstream" portion of it has become about nothing but sex, money, and bragging about sex and money. The mainstream music is promoting a culture that glorifies ignorance and stupidity (apply this statement to mainstream rock while we are at it BTW) with each new artist trying to race the others to the bottom. Eventually people wise up and say "Hey this is ***** I'm paying for" and move on but for a short time there is a ton of money to be made.

        I can promise you one thing. It wasn't the "artists" that made out like bandits on this.
    • DDRSkata, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Word is bond.
    • dslauson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7For me, the point of this article is embodied by the quote from A Tribe Called Quest's Q-Tip: "In rock you have metal, alternative, emo, soft rock, pop-rock, you have all these different strains, and there are different strains of hip-hop, but record companies aren't set up to sell these different strains."

      There are people out there making innovative, intelligent rap music. Stuff like The Roots, Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, etc. It's just that record execs still don't understand the genre, and have no idea how to market the different flavors. They haven't even bothered to try, really.

      The same thing is happening in rock all the time, too. Watch the documentary, "I am Trying to Break Your Heart", about the making of Wilco's brilliant album "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot". It's clear that record companies have no interest in developing talented, innovative acts, when it's so much easier to just spoonfeed the public the same old bubblegum pop (and unimaginative formulaic gangsta rap) that they've been buying for the last couple decades. The 'artists' are basically disposable, replacable, and interchangeable, and they already know exactly how to market it. If something falls outside of one of their cookie-cutter genres, they don't market it, because they don't know how.

      Reducing this article to "rappers are no longer fooling the white kids", though, implies that hip-hop is, and always has been, an artless charade without any real merit, and I don't think that's fair. Just because it's been rehashed, ripped off, and watered down to it's current sad formulaic state doesn't mean that the innovators from which it was stolen are also without merit. Even gangsta rap (not my favorite subgenre, by any means) was at one point new, fresh, and innovative (Wu Tang Clan, for example).
    • vichussmith, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Absolutely. It's been more than 10 fricking years and people still bring up the phrase "gangsta rap" Gangsta rap more or less died with Tupac & Biggie. Now it's Gangsta pop, with guys who look way tougher than they are, and entertain a whole hell of a lot less (with less talent) than their predecessors.
    • nousplacidus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I still can't get over that they didn't make any mention of this bull-crap like 'This is Why I'm Hot"
  • DeathJux, on 10/10/2007, -11/+50Definitive Jux and Rhymesayers 4 lyfe. Mainstream rap/hip-hop is generally *****, substituting catchy beats for anything of substance.
    • FzArEkTaH, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8RSE for life! be sure to check out doomtree also
    • alexanEmpire, on 10/10/2007, -15/+9Don't forget about the bitches in the club, the chrystal, the spinnin' rims, pouring the chrystal down the ass cracks of the bitches (with big booties) in the club, etc.
      • timbo83251, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3"uh..40's.. bitches...ho's...'n *****"
    • Murdats, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14isnt that mainstream anything.
      copy the quality, but with none of the effort.
      formulise it, mass produce it and just keep churning till people are so utterly sick of being force fed this plastic garbage that something new needs to copied and plastisised and mass produced again.
    • DaveAtDigital, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Dugg for Rhymesayers !
    • illt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Don't forget the underground LA scene like Nameless and Freespeech.
      • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Pharcyde (original 4), Freestyle Fellowship, Haiku' de ta

        Souls of Mischief, Del
    • GutterMoo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Must not sleep... Must warn others...
  • chrisfix, on 10/10/2007, -6/+19And the market opens up for a brand new trend to hit the shelves. As long as all the white gangstas don't decide to take up 80s hair metal, I'm down.
    • KingZoidberg, on 10/10/2007, -8/+7Nah, they'll all turn emo instead!
    • Nin10dude, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9If they all started having 80s metal hair, that'd be totally awesome.
    • Bluntman4000, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3Id love to see another 60's genre of music! Peace Love and Anti-Establishment!!!...
      • Bluntman4000, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3**Correction** Late 60's/ 70's
    • j0hnglist, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2you clearly missed the boat on the Rave scene of the late 90s and early 2000's.
      PLUR (Peace Love Unity Respect)
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Slim Shady in an 80s hair band... i don't think his balls can fit in tight leopard skin pants..

      but I did think of a cool name for them: the wrist slashers
    • stevenmu, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2"Glam Rap" anyone ?
      • joel8x, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Pretty much no difference between glam and hip hop culturally anyway. Songs about sex and drugs and partying. Case in point: Flavor of Love vs. Rock of Love - same show, different race.
    • Stephiems, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Maybe if they took up 80's Glam rock they would actually be able to play instruments...funny that...instruments instead of electronic machines, its called REAL music. If the majority of them came out with real musicians, it would be closer to calling rap 'music'.
  • HBNDonut, on 10/10/2007, -17/+263"Hiphop" these days is a bunch of people bragging about how much money they have, how many girls they get or some stupid new phrase like, "Actin real nice in da club"
    I used to like Hiphop back when artists like 2Pac, Nas and Wu-Tang were around and not spouting off about money and bling all the time.

    All these new artists are murdering it. Its not hiphop any more... its POP music!
    • domeyerj, on 10/10/2007, -25/+20It's definitely not "POP"ular music, it's garbage that people buy to blast through their 1980's crown victoria with multi-colored hood and "recycled" doors with a $1,000 sound system that shakes off half a pound of rusted car each day.
      • adooga, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Uh, yeah it's not popular music. Ok sure.
    • gotterdammerung, on 10/10/2007, -8/+48"cash rules everything around me, CREAM
      get the money... dolla dolla bill y'alllllll"

      -Wu-Tang
      • manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Shimmy Shimmy ya Shimmy Shimmy yea
      • damnation, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Bring Da Ruckus.... We need more groups like Wu.
    • wushu18t, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2exactly. lately it's just who is the most popular for the next 15 minutes. at least people in this genre realize that they need a better product to improve their declining sales and image. the RIAA could take note.
    • mt2k3, on 10/10/2007, -4/+20If I could digg you up 500 times I would... early 90's hip-hop forever.... gimme back my nas, wu, pete rock and CL Smooth, EPMD, etc....back before money, hoes, and bling...when real recognized real
      • elvisjulep, on 10/10/2007, -8/+5EPMD stands for Erick and Parrish Making Dollars, or didn't you know that? Rap has always been self-absorbed and bankrupt. Braggadocio is essential to hip hop. There's more poetry in the telephone directoy, and probably more insight.

        Oh, wait, I forgot about the Fat Boys...real recognizing real.
        • canewediggit, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5show me phone book that can top this;
          In no fashion have I lost my passion for the pen
          It's just that lately life has been a lost less inspirin
          To tell you the truth trials and tribulations is very tirin
          I gotta play a little game of gimmick and gunfirin
          I'm not aspirin to be any lower or higher than,
          I get equal as in eye to eye again
          I'm the truth, I'm complicated I'm all ready but try again
          I've got to die once to never ever die again
          And what I believe within I engrave within my skin
          And one thang that I ain't is a saint without a sin
          How could there be a now if there never was a then?
          That is unbalanced just like the yang without the yen
          I am distinguishably deeper as opposed to the paper-thin
          And I breathe oxygen, and you rhymin bout rocks again
          You stagnant, standing still enough to feel the world spin
          I'm beginning to smell the end in the path of the blowing wind
          Hopefully I'm fortunate enough to spend forever with a friend
          I'm slow dancing with destiny every day until then
          When I first got my big break I said that I would never bend
          And discredit my character to keep up or contend
          And my belief beat baseline secrete such a special blend
          I am not like them at all and I cannot pretend
          I am not like you at all and I cannot pretend.

          cee-lo green
          • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Friends, Romans, countrymen lend me yo' eardrums
            It was a beautiful day off in the neighborhood
            Yellows and greens and blues and browns
            and greys and hues that ooze beneath dilapidated woods
            Ain't a thing could explain what pertains
            to cocaine it's a stain that rain
            See summer roll around niggaz holla bout change
            Then they steady move them ki's like Bob James
            Cause old man winter's arrived, the temperature dives
            November just died, December's alive
            Thus it ain't no typical ride
            Just individual's way to bring home
            the bacon when bacon was all gone
            Makin it our own, takin me all wrong
            We've all indulged in the bulge of those no-no's
            No you ain't solo, it's even lower levels you can go
            Take sun people, put 'em in a land of snow
            -- Andre 3000 "Black Ice"
      • Zer0Fade, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Some of the finest Hip Hop came out of the early 90's. Classic after Classic after Classic. We had Wu-Tang, Mobb Deep, Nas, KRS-One, Blackmoon, M.O.P., Mic Geronimo, Biggie, Nas, AZ, etc. I can keep goin. Todays "Rap" music is NOT Hip Hop, it is some industry created ***** bubblegum pop version of its former self.
        • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Zer0, Thats the truth, my man. there are some decent artist these days though (most started in the era you mentioned).
    • Divals, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Nah, pop music's better...
    • eli_lilly, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2"It" definitely is hiphop, right back at its original braggadocio roots.
    • Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Pop music is actually survivable. This new hybrid is like some sort of manufactured nightmare of death that people just can't get, but are forced to live with...

      We should call it AIDS
    • ellecon, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I was a hip-hop dancer at a couple shows back in the early '90's and briefly dated a concert promoter/rap music store owner. One night I helped him get his stock ready, which consisted primarily of peeling and sticking parental advisory warning labels. Every product got a sticker, whether it needed it or not.

      The musicians themselves, with the notable exception of a couple real assholes, were just average nice guys trying to make a living. Some used their former criminal records to advance their careers, but why not? Where else can being an ex-con make you money? These guys worked their asses off and were too busy touring,performing,recording,etc. to be "real" criminals. Plus, they had no reason to do so anymore.

      Most people end up committing "crimes" (some of which shouldn't even be crimes, but that's another story) because they are poor. When you're a millionaire, you don't need to B&E or sell drugs.(well, duh!)

      Just a bunch of blokes trying to make a dollar, really. The same today as it has always been and always will be.

    • alpinweiss88, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5I *still* think one of the most innovative and true hip-hop groups was the Beastie Boys. I can still listen to a lot of their stuff, and it is still good - not just "oh, I remember this" good, but good by today's standards. It was the BB and Public Enemy back in the late 80s / early 90s that forced me to respect rap as a genre of music. Although some songs by 50, Eminem , JayZ, Snoop, Dre etc could entertain me, I saw it as passing entertainment.

      I think the same thing happened with rock... there are groups that have my respect, then there are the passing flavors of the month. Rap is going through its growing pains.
      • existent, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're white.
        • alpinweiss88, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Gee, ya think? You should call Mensa, I'm sure they'll let you right in. Say what you will, but rapping about rims, gold teeth, women, smoking, etc don't mean crap to me. Don't pretend like being white somehow invalidates my opinion. Hell, white people helped put rap on the map. They also helped ruin it, and turned it into the joke that it is today. Sure, there are likely underground and really talented artists out there I don't know about. I just told my experience with rap, and why I came to respect it. The BB couldn't ride on what they looked like in order to succeed. The fact that they did succeed is only a testament to their talent. At first, ALL rap sounded like garbage to me, it just didn't hit my ear right. It didn't speak to me. PE really opened my eyes a lot - believe me, that was a good thing. They spoke ABOUT something, it wasn't just drivel. You couldn't ignore it. You don't get that today. The only reason you can't ignore someone is because their publicist makes sure of it.

          I may not be black, or "from the streets" but how much more transparent can rap be? There is only 1 color associated with the music industry, and that is green. That is why rap sucks now, just like rock sucks. That's why there's no "alternative" music anymore.
    • WarrenHarding, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0you ***** newbie idiot. hip hop has always been about bragging. whether it's about girls, money, jewelry, whatever. get a clue jackass.
    • inchrnt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1pop hop
    • maelstromwar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0HBNDonut: Not POP, no, it's worse than that. It's marketing.
  • lordtyros, on 10/10/2007, -10/+23Little Brother
    • OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9"Get Back", in stores September 25 (?)

      /street team
    • sfh1182, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2"Rap today is like a Minstrel show" --Phonte
    • newelement, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Rhymefest
    • r0ck3tm4nn, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Hell yes. LB and all those NC cats are incredible.
    • manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Minstrel Show was legit.
    • scottkrotdotcom, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2minstrel show is dope
    • phmfthacim, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1weezy's on the track too
    • HipHop101, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1HOJ. Justus League. Get that GET BACK. The Listening, The Minstrel Show, Chitlin Circuit 1.5, Justus for All, Seperate But Equal. HIP HOP aint dead it just went home: Underground.
  • thatsbologna, on 10/10/2007, -22/+9If you say you don't like Rap/Hip-Hop today, I'm with you (for the most part), but please stop listening to the radio you ignorant *****. Listen to some real hip hop artists such as Common, AZ, Big Pun, and Chino XL.
    • winmywii, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10"Chino XL, ***** you too."
    • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15...or just listen to whatever it is you do like.
    • thatsbologna, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4^ 99% of the people here don't know what that's from.
    • Dubbsacc, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Tupac - Hit 'em Up
    • sleeper414, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1the fact that you included big pun in your sentence instantly disqualifies you from any further comments on rap.
  • iluvatar, on 10/10/2007, -14/+23Anyone interested in rap that isn't this pre-packaged marketed *****, check out Sage Francis and Saul Williams.

    Also, if you're into the underground hip-hop scene Galactic just put out a new album this week. They're more jazz than anything, but they have some strong hip-hop influence.
    • xposiactionx, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Saw Sage Francis two months ago in SF. I was not impressed. On his albums he is pretty good, but live was weak. He was overly arrogant for a chubby white guy and he thought it was all the rage to throw up the middle fingers and the horns every verse or chorus and drop a cuss word every two words. The opening acts killed it tho. Sage brings almost nothing but high school age surfer kids sporting Billabong shorts and some floppy doppies (flip flops for the common man). Nothing wrong with those kids getting in to it at all, BUT jesus, it seemed gimmicky to me with his crappy on stage antics.
    • Snowbeam, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3"They're more jazz than anything, but they have some strong hip-hop influence."

      What? Jazz with a hip-Hop influence? Hahaha, talk about bizarro world. Surely you meant Hip-hop with a Jazz influence. I see Hip-hop as one of many derivatives of Jazz and other great styles of music. Any artist claiming to be playing Jazz with a Hip-hop influence is just playing Hip-hop. A lot of the genre's in hip-hop thrive on stealing what sounds good in other genre's and adding it to their own. Hence, Hip-hop or mish mash or any other phrase describing the mix of one sounds with another.
    • canewediggit, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4a little saul for the uninitiated;
      http://youtube.com/watch?v=t5vmeM8iynA
    • Shelter22, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2if you're in the midwest check out scribble jam in Cincy. i've seen sage there a couple of times and he was pretty good. also check out Cunninlynguist, one of my favorite groups right now.
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Yeah, Saul is MIND blowingly intelligent. His words have like 4 or 5 layers of meaning that GO way deep. Even Ken Wilber (einstein of philosopy) is impressed.

    • wild, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I met Saul WIlliams at a Poetry slam when I was in college. He even critiqued my work. Very intelligent man with a lot to say.
    • sleepwalkers, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I kept reading these threads and hoped to see someone mention Saul Williams. The man is an absolute genius.
  • megadan76, on 10/10/2007, -12/+2Buried... exact same article last week, same title.

    Still true, mind you.
    • Monk22, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2then just click the bury button, and then not comment on it
  • Tobark, on 10/10/2007, -4/+15I define god rap / hip hop as old Ice-Cube , Schooly-D . If the new stuff had some soul like the old I would listen . All they sing about now are their hoes, cars and how much money they have . It sucks. Then they try to get on a softer and more serious tip and I want to chop off my legs.
    • strangerzero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Ice-Cube/NWA and Schooly-D, BDP and Ice-T at the innovators of gangsta rap. They rest were just copycats.
  • Wargalas, on 10/10/2007, -46/+90Now only if rap would go away, I could live in peace.
    • jgrommersch, on 10/10/2007, -16/+25Amen to that. Its about time people stop thinking that every female is a bitch. Plus I never got music where you hear how big some guys dick is and how many of your girlfriends he got too.
      • lordtyros, on 10/10/2007, -16/+8Sounds like you have a little dick and he got your girlfriend.
    • thatsbologna, on 10/10/2007, -31/+9@jgrommersch:

      You're obviously a skinny white flameboy if you think that's what all rap is about. Your opinion from here on out is void.
    • annenk38, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Funny thing is, rap never really picked up in New York City, even during its peak around 1999. We live too close to the action to take it seriously. The article was correct -- it was mostly suburbanites who were really into it, ***** war romantics. I just scanned the entire radio spectrum, and from over 50 radio stations only one actually played rap. That's right -- you are more likely to hear salsa or classical than rap, and rock is still king (WSOU #1!). Oh, and when you're in the subway, you can sort of hear what people listen to through their headphones -- guess what -- no rap there either!
    • skyshock1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2This video is the answer to all Rap's problems.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN2VqFPNS8w
  • devjunkie, on 10/10/2007, -7/+177Well, look on the bright side - while Gangsta Rap may be declining, there is a surge in Crunk, which is *damn* easy to make.

    You just take any nonsensical command and repeat it:

    Pop your ribs, now pop your limbs
    Pop your ribs, now pop your limbs
    Pop your ribs, now pop your limbs

    Sizzle up the grill and make beef stew
    Sizzle up the grill and make beef stew
    Sizzle up the grill and make beef stew

    etc...

    Make the right beat, the right catchy phrase, and you'll be rich with girls popping their bootay to your music in clubs across the entire country.
    • lookadeez, on 10/10/2007, -2/+32those songs just sell ringtones for a week, they never sell records
    • DeathJux, on 10/10/2007, -7/+207READ A BOOK, READ A BOOK, READ A *****' BOOK!
    • fezzen, on 10/10/2007, -4/+29Music seems to be the only major artform that is evolving backwards.
      • DeathJux, on 10/10/2007, -6/+6Perhaps in some regards (typically main-stream stuff), yes, but take a listen to Infected Mushroom and you may find yourself eating your words.
        • MarkOfTheDead, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2or eating more x
        • EmmanuelGoldstn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I almost ***** myself when I saw you mention Infected Mushroom. They're amazing.
      • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2It's been doing that for decades:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devo
        > The name "Devo" comes from the concept of Devolution (also referred to by the band as "de-evolution")
      • georgetds, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I don't know if you can say music is evolving backwards or forwards, it just is. The great artists of the past may be easy to pick out, but for every Mozart or Roger Waters (hey, why not?) how many people who claimed to be musicians created garbage instead?
      • TWINFM, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2That's just bound to happen when you commercialize something that is not meant to be commercialized. Once art is motivated by profit it ceases to be art. You can see that in music, literature, and film...
      • LonesomeFighter, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2depends who you listen too. There are still good artists and rappers, but there are a lot of one timing 'wonders' that hit the tv/ radio.
      • TheMidnight, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Have you *seen* modern painting? It's usually abstract rectangles of color or drawing that look like a six-year-old did it or some emo self-portrait that makes a fortune nowadays. I haven't seen a good piece of art since the 1930s.
      • Vodka2389, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0The same can be said about films and TV. It's all about trends these days. No one cares about originality or creativity.
    • traceur, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2if it's so easy then why don't you do it?
      • Monk22, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6because i dont want my name on a big heaping pile of *****.
    • po43292, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4mmmm....beef stew :drool: I'd buy that album.
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1lmao at that one. Crunk is not my favorite.
    • battletrax, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Its the drugs, makes them lazy.

      A few rock bands were lazy. But most music including rock has so much meaning.
    • scottbuzz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Oh My Lord. That's pretty freaking funny.
      But at the end you should insert a directional instruction. For instance:
      Pop it left, Pop if left
      Pop it right, Pop it right

      Making something about stirring up the stew.
      LMFAO
    • stillasleep00, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I still hold that Beck invented crunk in the 90's with "High 5 (Rock the Catskills)"
  • UltraMegaFilms, on 10/10/2007, -10/+71It is about time. Rap has been in a cluster-***** downward spiral for a while. Later fitty.
    • omarciddo, on 10/10/2007, -12/+3It's "FIDDY". Get it right, gawrsh.
    • mistermoxy, on 10/10/2007, -5/+6Exactly. People hate rap because they hate ***** Fifty Cent. That kid has NO flow. They overlook hip-hop artists like The Roots, Jurassic 5, Common, Tribe Called Quest, Brother Ali, and all those mother ***** in Minneapolis. Hip-hop isn't dead, it's just a rebuilding year.
      • plastek, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6You forgot Pharohe Monch.
      • Shelter22, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1"all those mother ***** in Minneaplois" LOL. WTF is up with that? i listen to most of them, but i don't understand why there are so many good hiphop groups out of MLPS... its pretty cool. and pharohe monch is alright, if you like him you might want to check out Last Emperor from Philly.
  • bigteebo, on 10/10/2007, -24/+176What gets me, is HOW can you start rapping by spouting off bragging of women/money/jewelery and threatening to kill any black people who threaten you? Were you born with said wealth?

    Hip hop culture needs to die, plain and simple. To be blunt, it has set black culture back 2 decades, and reinforces stereotypes.
    • platypibri, on 10/10/2007, -5/+49Wow. That's the brutal truth right there.
      • urbanoms, on 10/10/2007, -11/+5You two clearly watch to much TV. You know nothing about Hip Hop culture
        • Monk22, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7you clearly havent been to the ghetto in the last 30 years
        • noosejunky, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1I met this girl, when I was ten years old
          And what I loved most she had so much soul
          She was old school, when I was just a shorty
          Never knew throughout my life she would be there for me
          ont he regular, not a church girl she was secular
          Not about the money, no studs was mic checkin her
          But I respected her, she hit me in the heart
          A few New York niggaz, had did her in the park
          But she was there for me, and I was there for her
          Pull out a chair for her, turn on the air for her
          and just cool out, cool out and listen to her
          Sittin on a bone, wishin that I could do her
          Eventually if it was meant to be, then it would be
          because we related, physically and mentally
          And she was fun then, I'd be geeked when she'd come around
          Slim was fresh yo, when she was underground
          Original, pure untampered and down sister
          Boy I tell ya, I miss her

          Now periodically I would see
          ol girl at the clubs, and at the house parties
          She didn't have a body but she started gettin thick quick
          DId a couple of videos and became afrocentric
          Out goes the weave, in goes the braids beads medallions
          She was on that tip about, stoppin the violence
          About my people she was teachin me
          By not preachin to me but speakin to me
          in a method that was leisurely, so easily I approached
          She dug my rap, that's how we got close
          But then she broke to the West coast, and that was cool
          Cause around the same time, I went away to school
          And I'm a man of expandin, so why should I stand in her way
          She probably get her money in L.A.
          And she did stud, she got big pub but what was foul
          She said that the pro-black, was goin out of style
          She said, afrocentricity, was of the past
          So she got into R&B hip-house bass and jazz
          Now black music is black music and it's all good
          I wasn't salty, she was with the boys in the hood
          Cause that was good for her, she was becomin well rounded
          I thought it was dope how she was on that freestyle *****
          Just havin fun, not worried about anyone
          And you could tell, by how her titties hung

          I might've failed to mention that this chick was creative
          But once the man got you well he altered her native
          Told her if she got an image and a gimmick
          that she could make money, and she did it like a dummy
          Now I see her in commercials, she's universal
          She used to only swing it with the inner-city circle
          Now she be in the burbs lickin rock and dressin hip
          And on some dumb *****, when she comes to the city
          Talkin about poppin glocks servin rocks and hittin switches
          Now she's a gangsta rollin with gangsta bitches
          Always smokin blunts and gettin drunk
          Tellin me sad stories, now she only ***** with the funk
          Stressin how hardcore and real she is
          She was really the realest, before she got into showbiz
          I did her, not just to say that I did it
          But I'm committed, but so many niggaz hit it
          That she's just not the same lettin all these groupies do her
          I see niggaz slammin her, and takin her to the sewer
          But I'ma take her back hopin that the ***** stop
          Cause who I'm talkin bout y'all is hip-hop
          • tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Noose, who wrote that? Whoever did is a great rapper.
    • SnuKs, on 10/10/2007, -3/+18You mean TODAY'S hip hop culture should die. Hip hop used to be about fun and lyrical content, now it's just a way to show off how much money you have.

      Every genre of music has it's regression. I mean look at metal... the popular names [ie metalica] that represent the genre haven't been able to deliver nowadays, but no one is crying out that it needs to die.
      • NiteMayr, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Ya know, I used to think that, but then I RE-LISTENED to some old rap, EVEN RUN DMC rapped about the high life and money.

        Sucker MCs

        Two years ago, a friend of mine
        Asked me to say some MC rhymes
        So I said this rhyme I'm about to say
        The rhyme was Def a-then it went this way
        Took a test to become an MC
        And Orange Krush became amazed at me
        So Larry put me inside, his Cad-illac
        The chaffeur drove off and we never came back
        Dave cut the record down to the bone
        And now they got me rockin on the microphone
        And then we talkin autograph, and here's the laugh
        Champagne caviar, and bubble bath
        But see ahh, ah that's the life, ah that I lead

        Funny to see it like that, huh?

        Old School was just as "bad" as the new school, it just wasn't always as explicit:

        If you really want to be amazed at some dirty l, check out Judge Dread (My Dad turned me on to this, not really rap, really old-school ska, but after you listen to the "Big" tracks, you'll understand)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Dread
      • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I've been saying Metallica needs to go to hell for years.
      • Stephiems, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Metallica is not real metal, and they never were, they were just wannabes who couldn't really play, but America didn't have a metal band, they were all British, so take a sub-par band and add lots of advertising and money, and what do you have? A success. Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden....and if you want an American one, Man 'o War.
      • darkamster07, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1too true, no musical genera needs to die, they just need to go underground like a lot of metal has, when not in the spotlight, there can be real room for improvement and experimentation, and you don't press your music on everyone like the hip-hop culture has become. and about metal: metal will never die, there will always be a market for the most extreme, and only n00bs think Metallica is the one and only metal band, just like any musical genera, the hardcore fans will shy away often from mainstream bands, hell when my freinds were just getting into Metallica "the black album" I was into Carcass's "symphonies of sickness", there will always be hope as long as that fan division remains, no matter what the genera.
    • BrewBeau, on 10/10/2007, -5/+20What happened to jazz? It's the only recognized American art form, yet it's been abandoned for hip hop. There's a lot of GREAT jazz out there but the general public would never know it.
      • bonerjams2k3, on 10/10/2007, -17/+3***** jazz
        • Monk22, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8the majority of the world disagrees with you, oh and ***** rap/hip-hop or anything else that doesn't involve actual instruments and people with a more than a 2nd grade English vocabulary. go dig up Coltrane live in japan, that's ***** music.
      • darkamster07, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1how could jazz be the only american art form? musically the US was one of the biggest influences and/or creators of many musical generas.
    • rlbonner, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1Pure foolishness.
    • Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1I think its only been set back 10 years after people started trying to follow tupac's commercialism of 'gangsta'. They didn't listen to the rest of what he had to say, like, you make money by selling to the women! And you get off in court by making conscious songs early. You only get into gangsta to sell to a broader audience and create a sort of mysticism and occult warrior worship behind you. It's like protections. Yeah, almost all rap is neo-tupac and they get a big FAIL! Becuase they're too stupid to understand what he did.

      Jesus. I'm glad rap is dying. Like all markets, a downturn is needed for the economy to correct itself. We'll figure out a new market niche to exploit... Hell, BLACKS TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT! We can begin the mass extortion of the white population that way! ????? anyone?? ...anyone..... lol. Hell, There are already 1 million cops now, up from the 250k in the clinton years. ... Police state indeed. I think this is a good development all said.
      • vondur, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2This is one of the best examples of ghetto gibberish I have seen in quite a while!
    • johney5, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2i dont think you know what the ***** your talking about. the 'rappers' that talk about money, hoes, rims, and power are NOT hip hop culture.
    • mikesly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4So what will be on MTV/BET if this finally dies?
      • LoungeActx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2More Real World and Cribs Marathons probably...it's not music TV anymore anyway...it's ***** TV...
        • swiftekho, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The FUSE network is where it's at... All music, all the time
          (Good music too, its like 85% rock/alternative)
        • tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1MTV: Mainstream Television
      • darkamster07, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1what was on MTV before the hip-hop surge? mostly the same old mainsteam crap, the genera of choice may change, but the attitude wont.
    • sleeper414, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0here here, mainstream sensational rap music did exactly what republicans wanted it to do.
      made it "cool" to spend your money on drugs, guns, cars and clothes. all liabilities.some that can get you in jail.
      all the while, diverting earned funds from education and retirements or small business investments.

      way to go black people! your almost worst off than when you were slaves.
      why? because your still slaves and you dont know it.
  • g30ph, on 10/10/2007, -7/+238People are losing interest in songs about car rims? You're kidding right?
    • justinjacobs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14Buy some land buy some land, ***** spinning rims.
    • qazzi76, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1LMAO AT THIS THREAD!!!!
      TOO MUCH TRUTH!
      Am a hiphop fan myself but I only listen to kwele, def, monch, roots, star, common etc - That's real HIPHOP IMO
      • ratbear, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3That's real hiphop to naive d-bags that still listen to commercial rap on the side.
    • Fartbag666, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8and don't forget their chains, grills, and shoes!
      • DreKor, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Hey now, we all know that there's nothing more badass than a nice pair of shoes.
    • TheMidnight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19My rims never spin, to the contrary. You'll find that they're quite stationary.
      • gbro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1My rims ain't spinnin'
        It's me that is winnin'
        So go buy a mansion
        And stop your lyric sinnin'
      • tech42er, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Best mainstream rap I've heard in a long time.

        /Yes, I am white. Why do you ask?
    • KingGorilla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0The rhythm is way off. You can't put it to a beat I can jam too
  • UtopiaInTheSky, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3Beef stew on a grill? Just... no.
    • Chrino, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1That sounds as good as "Shake that laffy taffy."
  • hornfinger, on 10/10/2007, -6/+44Yeah, it would be good to see a return to clever lyricism. I, for one, am getting tired about hearing how to upholster and modify cars and what new jewellery options are available for men.
    • ronaldinho, on 10/10/2007, -6/+8The only rapper I like is Eminem, and not because he's white. He's actually rapping about things other than money, women, bling, or popping someone's head with a shotgun. It's obvious that sales would drop; people are tired of the same message over and over.

      I'm not really a rap person, but Eminem and Fort Minor would be something I would listen to for rap
      • georgetds, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7I don't know I would go as far as to say that asking the real slim shady to please stand up as a improvement. :P
      • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9To be honest, I've always looked at Eminem as a lampoon of the hip hop world. He has catchy beats and ridiculous lyrics most of the time. But often, you listen to what he's saying and you realize he basically ***** on the hip hop culture. He's created a cariacature to show how ridiculous it really is.
      • ghindo, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Buried for Fort Minor.
    • po43292, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7What, you don't have a chain that "hangs down to yo dick"?
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1You should expand. Fort Minor and Slim are the tip of the Ice berg.. not even close to the most relevant stuff out there. Slim Shady is incredible lyrically, though
  • Cerialthriller, on 10/10/2007, -15/+21All the young white kids these days are listening to emo bands instead of snoop and dre. But who can blame them, the new rap ***** sucks, but the old school snoop and dre stuff was pretty decent. Im not into rap btw, just sayin. Im into metal, so im not really sad to see rap go.
    • chrismgtis, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3You could pay me the salary of the most wealthy rapper in the world, and I still wouldn't listen to the garbage. I don't like emo either, but at least the front-man actually sings.
    • Kwinti, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7System of a Down ftw!!!
      • Fartbag666, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2damn right
      • jcm267, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Ummm.... Beatles FTW?

        There are scores of different mainstream artists one could list that are better than SOAD.
      • darkamster07, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1hypocrite. system is n00b mainstream *****.
    • lacr, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1.....................................................................What is an emo?


      Disclaimer: There is no such thing as "emo"....giving artists a genre to be placed in only fuels their desire to create crybaby music!
      • Cerialthriller, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4im guessing you listen to fall out boy and wear womens pants, and have your hair combed down over one eye
      • kilodelta, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1emo is goth for pussies.
    • sensoukami, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5You can be into both...
      • Cerialthriller, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1they are kinda complete opposites.. usually people who like emo or any type of rock like it because of what it is, which is what rap isnt. Instruments, emotions, and substance. No rock bands sing about the rims on their lambo
    • BigTuna, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I wish someone would explain this to the idiot white kids in my neighborhood. (just outside of Detroit)
      This 'street' ***** is still entrenched pretty well around here.
      • sleepwalkers, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Right there with you in the 'burbs of Detroit. It's terrible to see the type of ***** that's happening in the city, then you take a 20 minute drive out to the suburbs and see that it's all being glorified by white kids who have no idea what they're talking about.
    • skyfire1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Public Enemy.
    • darkamster07, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1same hear, but metal, or any genera can have some ***** bands in the spotlight. today anybody can call themselves a "metalhead" of they act like this: "ZOMG slipknot is the best death metal EVAR!!!!"
      if you are a real fan of anything, keep it on the underground kiddies. Suffocation FTW!
  • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -14/+87/ thinks to himself "oooh now's my big chance to tell the whole digg community about (insert 10 obscure underground rap artists here). since i listen to people that you never heard of, i'm cool and everyone else will think so too"
    • therealNofutcha, on 10/10/2007, -15/+6none of the artists mentioned have been obscure either.
    • xOKxWhy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5That 50 Cent guy is pretty underground
    • georgehuff, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1thinks "if i haven't heard of someone, they must be obscure"
  • rsmithrun, on 10/10/2007, -14/+49[Insert hip-hop bashing comment from rocker here]
    • Fartbag666, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Only today's mainstream Hip-Hop sucks.
    • Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7[Insert pointless- out of place racist comment here....Fear the inevitable crash of rap as we know it... Buys guns...]
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2rockers vs. Rappers? what is this, the mid-80s? Do I have to que up some "Rock this Way" and some Kid (country/soul/rap) Rock?
  • dantidote, on 10/10/2007, -20/+5yeah hip hop is going downhill for sure, except for Ludacris, he spits hot fire.
    • lordtyros, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4You mean Dylan
      • OMGWTFROFLMAOx2, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7No, I think he means
        Dylan
        Dylan
        Dylan
        Dylan
        Dylan
    • 98acura, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4If anything, Ludacris is RESPONSIBLE for rap being as ***** as it is today.
    • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1that made me lol
    • TheMidnight, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Ludacris speed, go!
  • LewisBreaker, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5you guy need to check out some grime and dubstep
    • tarquell, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2i was in cargo (london) the other week, it was dubstep, was awesome....
      • LewisBreaker, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4You need to get yourself to Plastic People (just around the corner from cargo) for FWD every friday night pure dubstep business
        • tarquell, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2seen the huge posters for that outside old st tube! will check it out.......
    • Klak, on 10/29/2007, -4/+1dubstep is like rap where the beat was made by a 5-year-old with down syndrome. dizzee rascal is the only guy that makes decent grime tunes. no need to really create a whole genre around one artist
      • squoob, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Listen to Burial and tell me that dubstep was made by 5 year olds.
      • michael1406, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Uneducated input is always easy to spot. I'm not even going to respond to the comment about Dubstep...but Dizzee being the only decent Grime artist? He's not even Grime anymore, he does his own thing. Look a bit further into the scene before you come out with things like that, it's the same as what people say about Hip-Hop.
        • Klak, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0maybe it was a little rash to say that, but the way the beats are structred really sounds dumb to me. its like *kick* *snaresnaresnaresnaresnaresnaresnare* *kick* not good for dancing, or anything really. some of the darker stuff is ok to listen to at home
      • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1..the HELL is grime.. i must be getting old (33). it that english version of Crunk.. don't bother I'll google it. (flippin, whipper snappers)
  • UGM2099, on 10/10/2007, -1/+48Contemporary mainstream hip hop has been turned in to 3.5 minute long ring tones. Important hip hop still exists.. just not really on TV or the radio, for the most part.
    • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4no good music exists on the tv or radio. only when you stop listening to that ***** will you find good music.
      • jcm267, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2good music exists on radio. You have to find the right stations
  • rkdotan, on 06/06/2008, -3/+72'this is why i'm hot'

    no need for explanation. thats "hip hop" today.
    • EllimistX, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7lol, i 've always thought those are the most retarded lyrics I've ever heard.
      • 98acura, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8You obviously havnt heard "Chain Hang Low" far, far dumber than this is why im hot..
      • bigtizzle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10No, the most retarded lyrics ever come just a few bars later:

        "I'm hot 'cause I'm fly / You ain't 'cause you not / This is why, this is why, this is why I'm hot"

        People paid money for that. . .
      • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1yeah, "chain hang low" is an embarrassment to the human species. It really it.
    • geekfrom99, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11dude that was totally last week, now its all about "ay bay bay" /shoots himself
      • bigtizzle, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Don't forget the soon-to-be certified masterpiece "Buy U a Drank (Shawtty Snappin')" by the oh so talented (and certainly not completely computer generated) T-Pain. Word is he's the next big thing.
    • andshewas, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7i heard he can make a mil sayin nuthin on the track.
      • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1@andshewas about "MIMS"
        "i heard he can make a mil sayin nuthin on the track."

        He ain't lyin' about the "nuthin" part.
      • battletrax, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1And led zeppelin can make 40 milli saying something on the track.

        these guys need to take notice.
    • scheibs14, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6To further andshewas's comment:

      This is why I'm hot
      I don't gotta rap
      I can sell a mill sayin nothin on da track

      That opening verse defines all this crap
    • smmakira, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0This is exactly what came to mind reading this article....... "This is why I'm hot" and he says it over and over and over..... Give me a break!
  • bolomkxxviii, on 10/10/2007, -16/+34Please just bury rap/hip hop right next to disco.
    • Getupstandup, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You cant bury the underground
      • KingGorilla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0because technically it's already there
  • fezzen, on 10/10/2007, -9/+55Definately time for disco to make a comeback.
    • bjs3171, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4i actually quite like the latest jamiroquai album. no joke. black devil car.
      • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2please god tell me you forgot your /sarcasm tag
      • kaldrenon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Calling Jamiroquai 'disco' is like calling the Red Hot Chili Peppers 'rock'. Sure, it's facutally true, but it understates and almost completely misses the point.

        Both bands are excellent, though.
      • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1 jamiroquai is MUCH more than disco. Some jazz, some funk, lots of soul.. that is one bad ass white man (not unlike Justin Timberlake)
    • ikari1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Actually, there is a "Neo-Disco" scene happening right now in dance music. as with any genre of music, there is good and there is bad. the problem is, most people that have no idea about a music genre tend to judge it based on it cheesiest/worst releases.
      • techlinks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Even though you are joking. I couldn't agree more.

        I love Disco.
  • daekfire, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12About time...
  • madchedar0, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Good news actually - maybe more people will discover Rawkus records' gems from the mid to late 90s.
    • DrBone, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0'Signed to Rawkus? I'd rather be mouth-***** by Nazis unconscious'
  • SergeiGolos, on 10/10/2007, -4/+36So any one still remember Del tha Funky Homosapien, and some nerdcore is worth while like Optimus Rhyme
    • gotterdammerung, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11***** yeah, it seems to me like Deltron 3030 is a hip hop album perfectly suited to the Digg set... I mean, there are robots having battles (albeit rap battles) in space, for corn's sake
      • CACuzcatlan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9He's working on a new Deltron 3030 album. He says Dan the Automatator is currently finishing up the beats.
        • gotterdammerung, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I thought he was devising a virus to bring dire straits to our environments...
        • NintendoFan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Deltron album isn't gonna be until next year, Automator and Kid Koala have been done their parts since like last December or so, Del's been busy with his own album 11th Hour which comes out in October and another EP for this fall before he works on Deltron. But ya, Del is proof that real hip-hop is not dead, he does it for the love of the music and it's great how he talks to fans all the time on aim, just buy his DVD and you get his screen name.
      • Shelter22, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0we get the kind of games you can't rent at blockbuster!
        • NintendoFan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1uh, that was Both Sides of the Brain, not Deltron, but good try.
    • AgentEntropy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2And of course don't forget MC Frontalot, MC Chris, or MC Hawkins just to name a few others.
    • bloodsport, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Word on that Del tip, he's pretty win. He's making music for NBA video games now, though. Albeit a sick song, it's for an NBA video game, and that kills it for me a little inside.
    • eli_lilly, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0"Still remember" Del? Did you miss the steaming pile of turd called Gorillaz?
      • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1eli lilly,
        not that you care but Del is not in the Gorillaz. Go back to listening to AFI & 3 days grace and crying quietly alone in the night, emo scum.
        • gl77, on 03/31/2008, -0/+3he wasnt a member, but he did the vocals for "Clint Eastwood".
    • elamr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Optimus RYHME?!.. I gotta check that out.
    • muffins, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Bad Credit!
    • seanc6610, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1didnt del produce some souls of mischief stuff? i think i remember some nasty tracks from them.
      • imjustabill, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yeah, the guys from Souls of Mischief are in the Hieroglyphics collective with Del. If you like Del or Souls of Mischief, check out Hiero.
  • rodeosmurf, on 10/10/2007, -19/+16I read digg for my daily dose of pasty white nerds whining about music made by scary black people.
  • MagicXB, on 10/10/2007, -4/+38It's about time all the 50 Cent rappers of the world just die.

    I didn't give a damn that you were shot 9 times the first time I heard it...what makes you think I care now?
    • squoob, on 10/10/2007, -1/+350 cent has a stupid vitamin water made in his honor.... say no more.... flavored sugar water and watered down wannabe rap.....
    • Armitage2k, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1The fact that you were shot 9 times and lived to sing about it, just means you were shot by some pretty useless pricks...
      • imjustabill, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1He wasn't really shot 9 times, just shot at 9 times. Only a couple hit him.
    • ShinRaTDR, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1removed comment - digg down
    • KingGorilla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You don't see James Blunt flaunting that he got shot
  • drexy, on 10/10/2007, -5/+20and their was much rejoicing
    • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19There was much rejoicing, until we read "their".
  • shablog, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3w00t!
  • FearFactory, on 10/10/2007, -4/+82What up dogs? No more superfly gangsta east vs west coast shizzle pimping the dope ***** with ghetto redneck feel from the suburbs while driving your '86 Honda with da fart pipe and park bench on da trunk impressin all the 14 year old girls at da mall G?
    • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6I LOL'd.
    • hcapri, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Spoken with such ghetto eloquence, i cannot agree with you more. Dugg alone for "da fart pipe and park bench on da trunk".
    • sensoukami, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1nicely said!
    • Ventolin, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3This coming from someone named FearFactory is pure gold.
    • bubba9999, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Wait - does that work?
  • chrismgtis, on 10/10/2007, -16/+46"And the rappers themselves exhibited an entrepreneurial bent unlike that of musicians before them."

    We are still calling rappers musicians? Oh boy. They aren't musicians in any sense. They aren't even singers. Hell, most of them can't even rhyme. Instead they simply go on stage, "talk" about "hos" and "bitches", while playing beats they hired someone else to create. Face it. They are leeches who make too much money off of people who think it's cool to blast "music" talking about ways to be a loser.
    • qazzi76,