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79 Comments
- joshf52, on 05/08/2009, -0/+30don't forget
"Nothing to kill or die for
and no religion too" - Nateon, on 05/08/2009, -3/+23I don't think Lennon was promoting anti-religion, he was promoting peace and bringing people together.
- cl2yp71c, on 05/08/2009, -13/+32People still believe in god?
*****.
*crawls back into basement* - bufiji07, on 05/08/2009, -15/+33I don't consider it anti-religious. I think it criticizes the divisive nature that religion has played in history.
- rjshatz, on 05/08/2009, -1/+13Enjoying music that conflicts with your morals and beliefs is totally okay. It's like saying someone can't smoke weed and listen to Minor Threat, or love George Bush and listen to the Dixie Chicks.
- seltaeb4, on 05/08/2009, -0/+11I think it is a UK thing.
Over here across the pond, you should see some of the crap the self-dubbed "Christians" try to pull. There's nothing Christian about it.
Here's an excellent example: a story about Fundamentalist Baptists hanging around outside junior high schools harassing students, in an attempt to lure these schoolchildren into vans so they can baptize them without their permission [wish I was making this up]:
http://www.gazette.com/articles/members-52775-russ ...
It's a shame, because "Christian" used to be a positive term, but the Philistines over here have utterly destroyed it. Over here, "Christian" has come to mean "bizarre, obsessive, anti-intellectual, mouth-breathing simpleton."
Jesus wept. - Battlecry, on 05/08/2009, -1/+12For everyone above and probably below who say Imagine is not anti-religious, here's the words out of John's mouth:
"'Imagine,' both the song and the album," Lennon said, "is the same thing as 'Working Class Hero' and 'Mother' and 'God' on the first disc. But the first record was too real for people, so nobody bought it . . . 'Imagine' was the same message but sugarcoated. . . . 'Imagine' is a big hit almost everywhere -- anti-religious, anti-nationalistic, anti-conventional, anti-capitalistic, but because it is sugarcoated it is accepted. Now I understand what you have to do: Put your political message across with a little honey."
But, you know, believe what you want. Who cares what the singer/songwriter meant or said. - Battlecry, on 05/08/2009, -1/+11FTA:
The song has drawn criticism from some religious figures as Lennon himself has called the anthem "anti-religious".
Notice the last half of that sentence. - boydrew, on 05/08/2009, -0/+8I view that as rejecting religion, not spirituality. Lennon would be a hypocrite if he decried spiritual pursuits. religion causes divide, while spirituality is more peace based as it is individual-based not derived from dogma.
- Buttercupbaby, on 05/08/2009, -0/+7It is obviously anti-religious. something I for one have no problem with. Let us not forget that throughout history religion has caused more wars and death than any other reason. I think that was the point Lennon was trying to get across. The world would be a better place without religion, no reason to hate because someones beliefs are different than others.
- Battlecry, on 05/08/2009, -5/+12I would say that "Imagine there's no Heaven... and no religion, too" would be just about as anti-religious as you can get.
I applaud the cathedral for being willing to play it. - cl2yp71c, on 05/08/2009, -7/+13No.
- deweyhewson, on 05/08/2009, -3/+9It is impossible to establish the "accurate" meaning of the song, and that line, as John Lennon is no longer with us, but if one takes into account that John himself experimented with different religions it is likely that, as someone said above, the line was critical of divisiveness and supposed moral superiority rather than religious beliefs.
If a church wishes to play it I think it does honor both to Lennon and to the overall message of the song of respect and compassion for all people. - lamejoketeller, on 05/08/2009, -0/+6I dunno, I feel like when a church plays this song it makes me feel like the point of it is completely lost on them...
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
The point of his song is to call attention to religious hypocrisy... - BobbyMC, on 05/08/2009, -2/+8It's necessary to understand that despite that possible interpretation, most religious sects are not that understanding when it comes to progressive icons like Lennon singing about imagining how great no religion would be.
I've actually seen this happen with imagine before, but also another song "One Tin Soldier". From what I've seen, I think what's really at play here is that the religious have an amazing ability to look directly at something and convince themselves its something else. "One Tin Soldier" is a timeless beatdown of religion and its nature of causing violence, written by a band known for its satanist tendencies. Despite that, while researching its origins a few years back I came across a staggering number of people who thought of it as a positive religious message, and many who actually had sung it in Sunday school...
I'm not out to pass judgement, but I think articles like this and my own personal research can be very useful in understanding why religions do what they do. Most of the time, its because even when looking at the same thing they see a completely different image than atheists like myself do. - TheNik, on 05/09/2009, -0/+5Something that would be much easier if people weren't fighting over whose imaginary friends were real.
- ZeroCubed, on 05/09/2009, -0/+5Unfortunately, it's a UK thing. I wish that were the case over here in America, but I've met more than my fair share of close minded, dirty mouthing "Christians" who can't seem to follow the holy rules they preach.
- verynegative, on 05/08/2009, -1/+6Boring meme is boring.
- BCPneumatics, on 05/08/2009, -0/+5I'd say a fair portion of it deals with religion. Excluding the chorus two thirds of the verses deal with abolition of religion. The majority of what's left is used to promote collectivism, peace, and unity. I've always loved the song but I'm not sure how it ever got popular in mainstream America. I guess people don't really listen to lyrics. No wonder some folks think "Rockin' in the Free World" is a patriotic song.
- inactive, on 05/08/2009, -1/+6Next week the bells will begin playing Slayer's "Raining Blood".
- jememy, on 05/09/2009, -0/+4Could you imagine the choirs shreading that! Holy ***** that would be siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick.
- SSPink, on 05/08/2009, -1/+5Yeah, i.e. anti-religion...
- jamesmcm, on 05/09/2009, -0/+4Working Class Hero is another awesome song.
"Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,
And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still ***** peasants as far as I can see, " - GrooTheWanderer, on 05/09/2009, -0/+4Most religions actually agree with those anti-religious sentiments - the difference is that they think if it weren't for all those OTHER religions then we could have peace. It doesn't occur to them to go one step further.
- ShingoEX, on 05/08/2009, -0/+4The song is about true freedom and finding peace, happiness, and joy within yourself and others, not within some organization that tells you how to live your life and what to live and die for.
- seltaeb4, on 05/09/2009, -0/+3That's true, Nico. I'm nominally Christian [most of us in the West are, I suppose,] actually a lapsed Catholic. Some of the best, most community-involved people I've ever met have been very active members of a congregation, be it Protestant or Catholic.
But these American Right Wing Christians are utterly insane. They've taken us to war, gutted social spending, polluted our national discourse, treated our natural resources like a 7-11, shown more concern for fertilized ovi than real children [in some cases even gunning down "abortionists" and bombing family planning clinics], demanded that evolution be stricken from schoolbooks in favor of Biblical creation stories, told all the rest of us that we are destined to burn in Eternal Hellfire unless we demonstrate that we have been "born again" by reading a sentence: "I accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my Personal Savior," or something to that effect, etc, etc, etc. These people are the least Christian I've ever met, and unfortunately I've met a lot of them in both personal and business dealings.
Fortunately, after a run of about 30 years controlling the Republican Party, it looks like they are done for in terms of pushing through their bizarre agenda.
These "Christians" have done far more damage to the United States than any terrorist could ever dream of. We can only hope their time has passed. - kerouac906, on 05/09/2009, -0/+3While I see the version of the world in "Imagine" as a beautiful place to strive for, I can only assume that most religious people see a world without religion as a horrible place to live, even if a world without religion had less conflict and unjust death.
Someday, someday... - Laughto, on 05/08/2009, -3/+6You know, for all the talk you hear on the internet about "retard religious people" who just wanna cause wars, my actual experience of christians has been of pretty much open minded, smart people who have just this kind of liberal attitude toward the secular world as the people in this article, who are able to tell that Imagine is really about peace. I'd even say the average atheist I meet is usually a lot more arrogant than the average christian (I'm an atheist). Maybe it's a UK thing, I dunno.
- Murrabbit, on 05/08/2009, -3/+6So you don't think it's anti-religious, you just think it speaks out against religion? Yeah ok. . .
- DiMierism, on 05/08/2009, -4/+7There is also this:
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
Even so, I think if Churches spread this message we may all be in a lot better shape. - LonelyTylenoL, on 05/08/2009, -4/+7Useless comment is useless.
- techlinks, on 05/09/2009, -0/+3Acknowledging an issue is the first step to fixing it.
- techlinks, on 05/09/2009, -0/+3Accepting criticism is something I full expect the church to do.
Pointing out a problem with -some- religion is not in and of itself anti-religious. I'm a Christian but one of my favourite songs is "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" by Serj Tankian:
"Nlelith is a prophet
From the prophet came the king
From the king came the pauper
From the pauper came the swing
From the swing came creation
From creation came love,
You dont know what this love is all about,
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise praise the Lord and pass the
ammunition,
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise praise the Lord and pass the
ammunition,
Buddha, Mohammad and the Hindu
Lost 100
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise praise the Lord and pass the
ammunition,
People still ask when will Armageddon begin," - LonelyTylenoL, on 05/08/2009, -2/+4Notice a nine and ten posts up...
unit001 said - There's not really any reason to have churches in the UK anyway. +3 / -4
KaseyCarbone replied - Burried. +1 / -0
unit001 said - There's not really any reason to have churches in the UK anyway. +2 / -3
KaseyCarbone replied - Dugg. +1 / -0
Experiment Complete.
Dependent and Independent variables identified.
Conclusion:
Time and spacial position played key role. - Craddster, on 05/09/2009, -0/+2Sam Austin, the bellringer leading the ring is one of my wife's closest friends. I have also rung those bells on several occasions. They are huge!
Ringing a tune like that cannot really be rung full circle in the way bells usually would. I believe they will be tying ropes to the clappers and chiming the song. I look forward to hearing it, I will probably be in Liverpool that weekend. - Joker99352, on 05/09/2009, -0/+2It's called IMAGINE for a reason. As if we needed this event to prove that religious fanatics are close-minded. Plus, the song suggests that without the bickering between the different religious groups, people would get along much more easily.
- NicoNicoNico, on 05/09/2009, -0/+2The people who are the most outspoken "Christians" are just a vocal minority. There are perfectly reasonable Christians, they're just not the ones trying to force others to see their point of view.
- cfuse, on 05/09/2009, -0/+2And you haven't stopped to think *why* religion might be incompatible with that?
- rodon, on 05/08/2009, -2/+4This is not here
- liquisoft, on 05/09/2009, -1/+3Exactly.
The only statements which involved religion were included to illustrate how religion is something people fight over. Without religion (among other things) there would be no reason to fight. Hence, imagining all the people living in peace, for the day, harmony, etc. - SolidBones, on 05/08/2009, -4/+6It even says in the article that they just find it thought provoking, not anti-religious.
"Imagine no religion", "Imagine no heaven" are only part of the things that song talks about. It's mostly about going back to the roots of being a human being. That is a very important concept to anyone of any spirituality, organized religion or no. - Asianwaste, on 05/09/2009, -1/+2You can be critical of something while not being against that very same thing.
Example: I'm moderately conservative, but even I know the representative legislative party that represents my general point of view has been ***** up hardcore lately. - IrishWarDwarf, on 05/09/2009, -0/+1As someone most intelligently quoted above, about what John Lennon himself said about the song, it IS anti-religious. I do not have a problem with it either, in fact I think its great. The world would be a better place without it.
- sodade, on 05/09/2009, -0/+1OMG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coven_(band)
This band predates Venom & Mercyful Fate! - ZeroCubed, on 05/09/2009, -0/+1...so...I guess you don't have a life either, huh?
- lamejoketeller, on 05/09/2009, -0/+1But the issue is the existence of religion itself. The only way to fix it is to abolish it. Why would the church play this song unless they're omitting that fact?
- CaptainRotundo, on 06/11/2009, -0/+1The song is most definitely anti-religious.
FTA: "The song has drawn criticism from some religious figures as Lennon himself has called the anthem "anti-religious". " - fatal616, on 05/23/2009, -0/+1EXACTLY.
- fatal616, on 05/23/2009, -0/+1It's not anti religious. It just asks all people to imagine a neutral place so they could get along.
- crescentfreshld, on 05/11/2009, -0/+1It's a UK thing. I grew up in the Bible Belt.
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Show 51 - 81 of 81 discussions
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