What is Digg?131 Comments
- evilware, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I'm sick of this stuff America is not going to be called the land of opportunity anymore, it's going to be America the land of watch your ass or you get sued.
- eiczko, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9allofmp3 is not illegal. It definitely plays in the grey area, but there is nothing illegal about it. It complies with all Russian laws at the moment so therefore it is legal. If it was in the US it would be deemed illegal, but the US does not and should not impose laws on the rest of the world. Obviously none of that $ makes it to the artists, but that does not make it illegal. If $ not making it to the artist is the criteria, then many of the RIAA members should be deemed close to illegal as well.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@thinkbox "when it isnt legal in the first place"
You're wrong, what allofmp3.com is doing is PERFECTLY legal under Russian law. Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but the world extends beyond the USA, and American laws actually don't apply everywhere (much as wankers like RIAA/MPAA/BSA would like to think they do). - TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I have spoken with many music industry lawyers and they all tell me the same thing...what AllofMP3 is doing is wrong, but it's not illegal. According to what I have been told, they are just exploiting loopholes in Russian law that allows them to sell the music off of broadcasting rights. The Performance Rights Organizations in the US (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) charge a fee for the broadcasting of music. In Russia, there is a loophole that places digital music through the internet in their scope of what's allowed.
According to the U.S. law (again, what I've been told by lawyers), it is not illegal for us to buy the music, as long as we don't re-distribute it. The only way that it can be made illegal is if the govt decides to make it illegal to import the music from Russia in digital format, similar to the embargo's they've placed on Cuban Cigars. - gamekid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"I'm sick of this stuff America is not going to be called the land of opportunity anymore, it's going to be America the land of watch your ass or you get sued."
Meh. I've been calling America worse things long ago. - TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'll be SHOCKED if the US Govt gets involved in this fight. It's one thing to be in bed with the RIAA when it comes to domestic issues, but to put to risk a relationship with Russia over copyright issues is probably not on their agenda. It's not like we're talking about Guam here!
- mooseroo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4What do pirating and sites like allofmp3.com teach us? They teach us that the value of a song for personal use is around $0.15 per track.
Market value is supposed to be determined by the market, not the government or a body like the RIAA. If you produce a product (music in this case) you should expect to be paid what the market (aka the consumer) is willing to pay fairly.
When I used to buy music on CDs, I bought maybe an album a month. At average price, that's around $15.
Now, using www.AllOfMp3.com, I spend closer to $30 a month. You do the math on this! If the RIAA would wake the ***** up, that's twice the amount. If they charged 15 cents a track, that makes the average album around $2.
I use my music for my personal use. My music is to my own liking, and if someone I know wants to have a copy, I just send them to allofmp3.com and tell them to sign up. Inevitably, they come back a few weeks later, raving about the store and thanking me for turning them on to it. The RIAA can't buy/market/force people into that kind of loyalty. They want a global monopoly on music. The longer they fight the price drop, the longer they lose out.
Get used to the price RIAA! That's all we're going to pay for your product. Musicians deserve to be paid for their work, there's no doubt about that. Maybe we need to see a price correction in the amount they get paid for their work though! Musicians that bitch about not getting enough money need to look at how much RIAA execs get paid, and then complain to the right people. - rm999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If they raise their prices to something fair they would go out of business
- TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3drn666...you're comparing apples to oranges with your DVD players out of a truck comparison.
Buying stolen merchandise is illegal. Going to Korea to buy a pair of pants that cost 10x as much in the US and bringing them back with you is NOT.
allofmp3.com is not selling "stolen" merchandise. They are exploiting a loophole that allows them to do what they do LEGALLY. There's no loophole that allows people to sell stolen DVD players that fall out of a truck. - weezer1024, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Just an FYI but Canada was cited on the nation watch list for having inadequate intellectual property protections as well.
- casaprivado, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Timmy Gunz is completely correct. Moreover this is what I did my law school law journal article on, and it was my conclusion that not only is this currently legal in Russia, but it is completely legal for purchasers to import the music once they have bought it to the US under the first sale doctrine, they may even resell it as used so long as they do not keep a copy for themselves.
(By the way, I am not currently an attorney, so please do not take any of what I said as advise, please consult your own attorney.) - Googled, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6WTF the USA does NOT control the rest of the world. And they wonder why 3/4 of the world hates their ass!
- TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's fine, force all those that pay for allofmp3.com to just get their music off torrent sites and P2P.
You'd think they'd learn from a site like allofmp3.com that people WANT to be able to buy their music at different bitrates at very low prices. This is the direction that paid downloads have to go if the industry plans to put up a REAL fight against illegal downloading.
I still think there needs to be a $5.00 per account "tax" to all who subscribe to the internet. Let them have free downloading of all music they want at a central P2P site and divvy up the payments based on downloading figures. - Werdock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I am sorry, but the only party in WTO that wants to change someone else's laws is US only. Why not Russia should demand US law change?
- JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Soo... how much can I send to a russian bank account without raising a red flag?
Anyone know where I can get a couple TB of storage? - davidpeele, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2History books in the future will include these chapters:
World War I
World War II
World War mp3 - teamparadox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yes because the RIAA doesnt like a website Russia should change! FU RIAA. I've stopped buying all forms of music, I'll listen to the radio (Sirius) which will probably be illegal soon too.
- sonicdevo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For a little more on the STEALING vs. INFRINGEMENT argument, you might want to visit wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement
Quoted from the site:
"As a consequence, "software piracy" is a somewhat loaded term. "Theft" or "stealing" are considered even more inflammatory, as well as legally misleading." - MikeyC, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"I still think there needs to be a $5.00 per account "tax" to all who subscribe to the internet. Let them have free downloading of all music they want at a central P2P site and divvy up the payments based on downloading figures."
First of all, the RIAA/MPAA would never, ever in a million bazillion years settle for $5.00/account for unlimited downloading. But even if they did, why do you think it's fair to impose this "tax" on everyone despite the fact that not everyone downloads copyright movies and music online. My mom is online and all she does is mapquest and google stuff... So while I would be more than happy to pay $5 for an unlimited buffet of goodies, I don't think a blanket tax is fair. - dlichteman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Come one RIAA, you dont have juristiction in Russia because its legal in russia....jesus christ if you want to stop pirating open your own shop. Think of it....
1.RIAA has download system.
2.Have allofmp3 prices
3. Profit!
***** A RIAA, get it already??????Stop fighting downloading make it good - Illuminatus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's amazing how many international copyright attorneys are Digg members!
- TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"It's true that allofmp3.com isn't selling 'stolen' merchandise. But they are selling product for which they, at least in the context of international convention, have no right to sell."
What they are doing IS legal in their country. Russia is infamous for it's piracy rates, so that's why they are given very lax (by our standards) restrictions on their intellectual property. It's the same reason why major movie studios sell fully-legal DVDs for around $5.00 in Mexico, in the hopes that if you start off small, you can try and change the mindset of the people and get them to start purchasing the "legal" alternatives. - TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The RIAA knows it can't stop this in Russia, that's why it's trying to get the Government to step in. Do you notice how they won't even come out and mention allofmp3.com by name? It's because they know they can't do jack ***** about it and if they mention it and all it will do is educate the masses about the site and really shoot themselves in the foot.
- TheCheeta, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Related press release: http://www.riaa.com/news/newsletter/122205.asp
- cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So the RIAA wants the US to invoke trade sanctions against Russia because of the exported disks...
So lets stop shipping food and other supplies to Russia because of intellectual property. That makes a lot of sense. - Werdock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Russians did try themselves to close allofmp3 down. And they did for a few days but after a while they came back up as there nothing illegal was found according to russian laws.
- geekboy2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> yes because the RIAA doesnt like a website Russia should change! FU RIAA.
> I've stopped buying all forms of music, I'll listen to the radio (Sirius) which
> will probably be illegal soon too.
And, be careful you're not in close proximity to someone else when you hum a recognizable song. Heck, even if it's just your interpretation of how the song goes, it's a public performance of a protected work. - masterdebater, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Come on people, I stopped paying for music for 8 years, its really not that hard. Just don't go into HMV! I have however, paid for some allofmp3.com music, which was awesome. Fast downloads - no hassle, and no DRM, mp3 encodes and works beautifully on every device i've used it on. For someone who has not bought a real CD in almost a decade, who actually forked over some cash for music again, is saying alot. Until they "get it" they won't be getting any...
- saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's good to know that the **AA are making decisions on foreign policy of the US. Always good when your foreign policy is set by money grubbing whores... I'm sure they'll do what's in the best interest of the US citizens...
- sdbryan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There is nothing in the article about the web site AllOfMP3.com. What is specifically mentioned is the manufacturing of counterfeit CD's. Even if you are the biggest fan of the notorious web site I see nothing wrong with efforts to sht down these clearly illegal CD factories.
- DrDabbles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1First off, it's funny to watch the RIAA try to get its rules put in over-seas. They tried to have AllOfMP3 shut down a few months ago (for those that don't remember), and it failed miserably. So, they tipped off the Russian Police. All of MP3 was raided, and in the end it turned out that they were follwoing Russian copyright laws to the "T".
In Russia, the rule is that the ORIGINAL CREATOR of the song gets paid royalties. This may or may not be the performing artist. In my eyes, I really don't care. The person with the talent is getting paid.
What's even better is this latest attempt. The RIAA- who can't even get the US congress or House of Representatives to side with it most of the time is trying to get the Russians kicked out of the WTO! HAHAHA! Buddy, we need Oil more than we need you to rip off the world with Music. We get a small amount of oil from Russia (though Canada supplies our largest amount). You lose in the battle of needs.
It will be interesting to see the backlash from other nations with laws like those in Russia. I bet soon we'll see sites like AllofMP3.com popping up everywhere- many that will be even cheaper than the Russians. In the end, I applaud the people that try. They study their laws and get in the global market game...right from their appartments. Bless their inginuity. - bash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@weezer1024: yeah let your supreme courts rule downloading legal and next thing you know RIAA is crying "OH NOES!!!!"
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"not to make music, sell it, and have foreign companies steal your money. "
You do not have a right to make a profit. Sorry, that's not in the constitution.
And it's not stealing, because they never had it in the first place. - compu73rg33k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1When did the RIAA gain juristiction in Russia? I musta missed that digg.
- sonicdevo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1jkfan87,
I'm sorry you are wrong. Copying MP3's is IP infringement, not stealing. You can call it whatever you want, but the law recognizes it as IP infringement. Ironically, if it were stealing, the RIAA wouldn't be able to sue all these people whom they claim are filesharing. They can sue for IP infringement, because that is a civil offense, and the burden of proof in a civil case lies with the accused. If it were stealing, the burden of proof would lie with the RIAA, and God help them prove that 64.257.694.001 with a file named "britney's ***** singing.mp3" that is avaliable is little Jimmy "stealing" their music. - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I love how everybody talks like they're an expert on the legality of AllOfMP3.com when even the copyright lawyers can't seem to agree. If you read 10 different "expert" opinions you'll get 10 different answers. Here's the best I've been able to piece together.
1. AllOfMP3 is legal, more or less in Russia. Though they have been in and out of hot water with the Russian authorities historically lax copyright laws and loopholes allow AllOfMP3 to function. At least some in Russia would like to shut them down but doing so under current law is highly unlikely.
2. It is legal for AllOfMP3 to export their music under Russian copyright law, but it depends on your country's laws whether it is legal to import the music.
3. In the US it is probably more or less illegal to import the songs. I'm a bit hazy on this now because it's been awhile since I've researched it, but law forbids importing music into the US. There is an exemption on importing phonographs and recordings for personal use but the best authority I've seen states that digital music does not qualify for that exemption.
Bottom line: It's likely (but by no means certainly) illegal to purchase music from AllOfMP3.com in the United States--or at least along the equivalent of gray market goods. The odds of being sued for purchasing music through them seems almost zero, although this is the RIAA we're talking about.
If a company in the US could actually offer the service that AllOfMP3 does they would make a fortune off of me. The ability to get music in the format and bit-rate of your choice without DRM at a reasonable price is a killer combination for me. As it is I buy no music at all. - Inferny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The server at www.riaa.com could not be found"
OMG I HAVE DIED AND GONE TO HEAVEN! The RIAA is seriously trying to control all forms of music, so what if they don't follow the same laws, if you try to get a country to change it's laws.. that's illegal as it is interfering with that country's legal process. GET LOST RIAA. - Otto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1And this affects my normal music piracy activities, how, exactly?
I don't buy music from the RIAA member companies because I don't want my money getting back to them. I pirate the music and then send cash directly to the artists (when I can find out address to mail those Hamiltons to). Give the cash directly to the people who make the content, it's much simpler than you think.
Stop paying the middlemen to do their middlemen ***** and they'll eventually either get real jobs doing real work, or starve to death. Either way is fine by me. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2No where in this article is even a hint of anything remotely having to do with allofmp3.com...
people quit making up titles and such.. let people make up their own minds.. This is about pirated Discs and not mp3's.. pirated discs hurt sales way more than p2p and are illegal, pretty much world wide as this is direct theft. people actually selling music for profit. allofmp3.com is completely different and legal under russian law.
what the riaa should do is just dont go after americans...argue how intellectal property is one of americas biggest exports and by letting these foriegners to steal our ip we raise the deficiet. But all americans should get there music free. er american music...when you make something we want to hear we'll buy it from you. - jagnum1fan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1my country sucks...
- Nerys, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Allofmp3 is perfectly legal in russia and here (for us users to buy from) if the artists is getting ripped its the russian government doing the ripping NOT allofmp3
the amount that allofmp3 pays to the russian government is likely FAR in excess of what the artist gets when they sell a CD here in the US via the RIAA
So whos ripping who off ?
NOW if the russian governent does not pay this money to the equivalent ASCAP/BMI that they owe to that is NOT allofmp3's problem or fault and DOES NOT invalidate the legality of the service.
Considering artists get on average a nickel for each CD sold I think we need to point the infringement fingers at someone else namely the labels.
Chris Taylor
http://www.dmcpa.info - TimmyGUNZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1jkfan87...
Does your Mother know you're using words like that on the internet? If so, she'd probably revoke your online time privileges.
And for your information tough guy, that whole charging at the ISP level is an idea that's being heavily debated by many groups. A quick little search on Google and you will find that to be the case.
Also, charging a blanket tax is nothing new: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blank_media_tax#United_States , so to think that this would never happen for P2P is just foolish (you.) - ZekeSulastin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Article Text:
February 13, 2006
RIAA And Other Property Groups Ask U.S. Government To Cite Russia For Inadequate Intellectual Property Protections, Designate Nation As A ‘Priority Foreign Country’ Under Annual Trade Privileges Laws
------------------------------
Important Strides For Other Nations -- Brazil, Taiwan and Pakistan Strengthen Anti-Piracy Efforts
WASHINGTON, DC – [The International Intellectual Property Alliance (IIPA), on behalf of the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA), the Business Software Alliance (BSA) and other copyright associations, today filed a report with the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) outlining intellectual property protection concerns in 68 different nations. The groups’ report, submitted as part of the so-called “Special 301” process where the federal government annually reviews whether the efforts of foreign governments to protect intellectual property are adequate, again asks USTR to designate Russia as a Priority Foreign Country (PFC). Such a designation could lead to the imposition of trade sanctions. Below is a comment from the RIAA’s Neil Turkewitz, Executive Vice President, International.]
“This filing underscores the importance that the U.S. copyright industries attach to the need for radical reform in Russia. Russia has emerged in recent years as one the world’s leading producers and exporters of pirate discs. The Russian government has failed to respond appropriately to this open lawlessness. Many of the plants currently producing pirate product are actually located on government premises – a form of tacit government involvement that we have not witnessed since China in the mid-1990s.
“We hope that recent comments by President Putin suggest that Russian law enforcement officials will soon undertake serious, immediate action to curb rampant intellectual property theft. [** Please see Putin comment, as reported by Reuters, below.**]
“There are some promising signals, but for the moment, there is little doubt that Russia fails to provide effective protection as required under international obligations. We strongly encourage USTR to designate Russia as a ‘Priority Foreign Country’ and to move quickly to remove Russia’s eligibility for specific trade benefits. Congress has repeatedly made clear that support for most favored nation trade status will not be forthcoming unless this situation is adequately resolved. We hope that the Russian government will promptly address the inadequacies in its enforcement regime that impede its entry into the WTO.
“This filing provides additional details on the very difficult and well publicized situation in China. We are not requesting any specific action since Sino-U.S. discussions on this subject are already well developed, and we look to China to redeem its commitments to the United States and to the world community by significantly enhancing its efforts to deal with piracy. China has increased its administrative procedures but has not affected the production, distribution and sale of pirate product. It is time that China subjects commercial pirates to criminal procedures as it’s required to do under international law.”
** Comment by President Putin (Reuters, “Piracy Says Counterfeiting Hurting Russia,” 2/3/06): "Defending intellectual property rights remains a serious problem…the dissemination of pirated material without doubt discredits Russia as a reliable business partner."
MORE BACKGROUND ON BRAZIL, TAIWAN AND PAKISTAN: On the positive side, today’s filing reflects some dramatic improvements in some countries. The Brazilian, Taiwanese and Pakistani governments in particular deserve recognition for the way that they have addressed, or begun to address, piracy problems that were threatening the very existence of local creative industries. The Taiwanese government, while still facing major problems in the online environment, has managed to reduce the piracy rate significantly. The government of Pakistan moved quickly and decisively to address the production and export of pirate discs, and the principals behind many of these operations are now awaiting trial. In Brazil, the creative community cheered the formation of an inter-agency, government-backed anti-piracy council that is developing and implementing an anti-piracy plan that has brought hope to local and foreign creators alike. While this initiative has yet to have a commercially meaningful impact on the market, there is a new optimism in Brazil based on the clear indications from the government that it views the effective protection of intellectual property as an important aspect of Brazil’s competitiveness in the new economy.
#####
[The Recording Industry Association of America is the trade group that represents the U.S. recording industry. Its mission is to foster a business and legal climate that supports and promotes our members' creative and financial vitality. Its members are the record companies that comprise the most vibrant national music industry in the world. RIAA® members create, manufacture and/or distribute approximately 90% of all legitimate sound recordings produced and sold in the United States. In support of this mission, the RIAA works to protect intellectual property rights worldwide and the First Amendment rights of artists; conduct consumer industry and technical research; and monitor and review - - state and federal laws, regulations and policies. The RIAA® also certifies Gold®, Platinum®, Multi-Platinum™, and Diamond sales awards, Los Premios De Oro y Platino™, an award celebrating Latin music sales.]
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research and data - queenrikki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This story has ***** to do with allofmp3.com. The title of the article is misleading and inflammatory. How many of you just looked at the title and started comment, I wonder?
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Snake0 wrote: Who says you are importing music? You are importing bits, 1's and 0's that's all they are. The way they are INTERPRETED makes them music, but that depends on each and everyone's system. It is possible to interpret the bits as ASCII, or even an image.
Your honor, I didn't steal a car, I stole a bunch of individual atoms. Sure. Good luck trying to make that argument work in a court of law. - Shambler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I don't think this will amount to anything in the end. The US needs Russia in today's problem-world, and messing with them economically will raise hell. The RIAA picked a really bad time to bring this issue up.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@mikeyc "But even if they did, why do you think it's fair to impose this "tax" on everyone despite the fact that not everyone downloads copyright movies and music online."
Actually, in Ausralia, we already have that. There is an artificial 'tax' on recordable media. Tapes, etc. (I'm not sure if they've pwned CDs and DVDs). The ARIA (Austrailan Recording Industry Association, local equivalent of RIAA) somehow managed to convince a government way back when that this was a good thing, and so we've been paying the music industry tax ever since.
Of course, they still go all ballistic on our arses (that's Australian for "asses") if we dare to actually copy anything that we've already paid the copying tax on. Double dipping indeed! - sparkmonkeyz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0F**K!! I still have $10 in it!!
- iamthedude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I find this all very disappointing, again. We have to ask the question, how stupid are the RIAA? If most of us worked for the RIAA (maybe we do, we buy music??) then wouldn't we try to find a middle ground, some way of paying for music that doesn't end with the consumer being ripped off?
Does anyone think that the pay per MB model is cool or what?
Lets face it, DRM is a joke. Who buys stuff to then have a manufacturer control how you use it?
I could rant for ages on this but I won't as it could get very boring. - GreenAlien, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
the movie and music industries are probably equally as big as each other, but do you notice how much complaining people do about music compared to movies, even though a CD/DVD both cost about the same?
Well one day the RIAA and governments will wake up and realise that this is because music is a complete rip off. Why should someone spend a day in the recording studios and expect to sell it for the same price as a movie, which usually takes huge amounts of effort and time to make, involves literally hundreds of people, and costs millions to put together?
One day common sense will prevail and all music will be distributed for free over the net. People will only make their money from performing live. And I bet they would make similar amounts of money. If music was freely and universally available, you could have simple global ranking system, and the real decent music would get voted to the top. The artists would get their exposure, and in return people would turn up to their gigs, they'd get paid for TV performances, and they'd get sponsorships etc. The artists would still make millions, and the RIAA management could move on to proper jobs that actually benefit someone but themselves. -
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