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90 Comments
- Dundasbro, on 10/11/2007, -2/+173I hate it when descriptions end before they are fi
- Erfman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+54Great, now I know where to line up 300 dwarves to stop the Persian army.
- DirtySnachez, on 10/11/2007, -2/+31the middle?
- Frecklefoot, on 10/11/2007, -2/+21The professor's map is incredibly inaccurate. Looking at Tolkien's actual map (http://files.meetup.com/238907/middle%20earth%20map%20wallpaper.jpg), it hardly lines up at all. It's clear he had to make some pretty dramatic changes to get the maps to line up. For example, in Tolkien's stories, Rivendell is due east of The Shire. But on Bird's map, it is far to the north (NNE), which makes no sense in the stories (for example, why did the fellowship go to the trouble of crossing Moria when they simply could've taken the easy route south back through The Shire?). Pretty nonsensical. Tolkien himself says he didn't base it on any real landmass.
- Pixelante, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16USA is in the West, beyond the Sea. That's where the Elves went, and ended up in Coney Island. They then invented Star Trek, so that they could meet at Trek conventions passing off as nerds dressed up as Vulcans.
- popothebright, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13I believe "Mordor" was drawn extensively from the men's room of a bar in Islington. The Shire of course is Dublin. : p
- killerofkiller, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15lazy copy and paste jobs....
- 0ceanic, on 10/11/2007, -5/+14from the article
The millionth hit on this blog is as good an occasion as any to finally broach the inevitable subject for a blog about curious cartography: Middle-earth. J.R.R. Tolkien’s invented mythology centred on an epic story of the struggle between Good and Evil, but it also included an elaborate backstory, a complex of languages, genealogies, cultures and peoples – and a map.
Created by Tolkien somewhere in the 1930s, the map shows the ‘mortal lands’ of Middle-earth, which according to Tolkien himself is part of our own Earth, but in a previous, mythical era. At the time of the events described in ‘The Hobbit’ and ‘The Lord of the Rings’, Middle-earth is moving towards the end of its Third Age, about 6.000 years ago.
Tolkien didn’t create Middle-earth ex nihilo: ancient Germanic myths divide the Universe in nine worlds, inhabited by elves, dwarves, giants, etc. The world of men is the one in the middle, called Midgard, Middenheim or Middle-earth. That term doesn’t thus describe the entirety of the world Tolkien thought up. The correct term for the total world is Arda – probably derived from German Erde (’Earth’) and only first mentioned posthumously in the Silmarillion (1977); and Eä (for the whole Universe).
The Hobbits are described as inhabiting ‘the North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea’, and therefore it’s tempting to associate their home with Tolkien’s own, England. Yet, Tolkien himself wrote that ‘as for the shape of the world of the Third Age, I am afraid that was devised ‘dramatically’, rather than geologically, or paleontologically.” Elsewhere, Tolkien does admit “The ‘Shire’ is based on rural England, and not any other country in the world.”
Tolkien at least compares his ‘Old World’ with Europe: “The action of the story takes place in the North-West of ‘Middle-earth’, equivalent in latitude to the coastlands of Europe and the north shores of the Mediterranean (…) If Hobbiton and Rivendell are taken (as intended) to be about the latitude of Oxford, then Minas Tirith, 600 miles south, is at about the latitude of Florence. The Mouths of Anduin and the ancient city of Pelargir are at about the latitude of ancient Troy.”
But, as Tolkien states in the prologue to ‘The Lord of the Rings’, it would be fruitless to look for geographical correspondences, as “Those days, the Third Age of Middle-earth, are now long past, and the shape of all lands has been changed…” And yet, that’s exactly what Peter Bird attempts with the map here shown. Bird, a professor of Geophysics and Geology at UCLA, has overlapped the map of Middle-earth with one of Europe, which leads to following locations:
• The Shire is in the South-West of England, which further north is also home to the Old Forest (Yorkshire?), the Barrow Downs (north of England), the city of Bree (at or near Newcastle-upon-Tyne) and Amon Sul (Scottish Highlands).
• The Grey Havens are situated in Ireland.
• Eriador corresponds with Brittany.
• Helm’s Deep is near the Franco-German-Swiss border tripoint, close to the city of Basel.
• The mountain chain of Ered Nimrais is the Alps.
• Gondor corresponds with the northern Italian plains, extended towards the unsubmerged Adriatic Sea.
• Mordor is situated in Transylvania, with Mount Doom in Romania (probably), Minas Morgul in Hungary (approximately) and Minas Tirith in Austria (sort of).
• Rohan is in southern Germany, with Edoras at the foot of the Bavarian Alps. Also in Germany, but to the north, near present-day Hamburg, is Isengard. Close by is the forest of Fangorn.
• To the north is Mirkwood, further east are Rhovanion and the wastes of Rhûn, close to the Ural mountains.
• The Sea of Rhûn corresponds to the Black Sea.
• Khand is Turkey
• Haradwaith is the eastern part of North Africa, Umbar corresponds with the Maghreb, the western part of North Africa.
• The Bay of Belfalas is the western part of the Mediterranean. - FlorentG, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12Or he said "candlejack" while writi
- bubba9999, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10This doesn't look like New Zealand very much. It's sort of like a twisted Europe. Maybe it was before the plates separated a little more.
- bmson, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8No it's Miðgarðr
- davecor, on 11/04/2007, -3/+11There once was a man from Peru
Whose limericks ended at line two. - ayeroxor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8I always thought it kind of neat that Mediterranean literally means Middle Earth (medi-terra)
- JimmyTRUELOVE, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Am I mistaken in saying Midgard was the main city in Final Fantasy VII? Could have sworn it was.
Interesting nevertheless! Thanks - Hangender, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Hmmm...last time I check the LOTR universe was fiction...and by fiction I suppose it meant it was not real. And YET! Clearly we have so very dedicated fanboys here trying to find the actual location.
- unclejesse0, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6This is terribly inaccurate. I've read Tolkien extensively and the only aspects of Middle Earth that were based on the real world was his languages. That map on this post is nothing like a real map of Middle Earth. Tolkien would be ashamed.
- bmson, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Tolkien was into Ásatrú :)
Miðgarður (translation : garden in the middle).
Btw. Tolkien spoke Icelandic (the language that have changed least since the viking age)
Alot of names in Lord of the rings are old nordic names. - CatsAreGods, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4"Mordor is situated in Transylvania"
That fits. - heynoop, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6ugh, stop this crap ffs. middle earth was IMAGINARY. people don't understand that and so they always try to compare it to our real world, like 'middle earth was set in medieval times' or 'where was middle earth if it was real?'. it's called *fantasy* for a reason. because it's not real. you can't compare it to anything on this earth, because it's not from this ***** earth. i don't see why its so hard to understand...
- kennyGS13, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4where in the world is Carmen Sandiego?
- ivosilva, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Actually you are, but not very much =) It was Midgar, and Cloud (and Zack) where from Nibelheim (sounds a bit like Middenheim). There was Mideel too.
- digitaldivinci, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3One does not simply walk into Transylvania!
- MOJIRA, on 05/17/2008, -0/+3Yeah, this map is BS. I don't think Middle Earth was based on a real map, but real places and cultures. I'd like to see a map that lines them up based on cultural relativism and not pseudo-geographics/coincidentalism.
- CraigJ, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Middle Earth is in New Zealand
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2A better map/wallpaper: http://files.meetup.com/238907/middle%20earth%20map%20wallpaper.jpg
- hydroplane, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2NERDS!!!
- Qeveren, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Tolkien did say that the shape of the world had changed since the Third Age...
- Pixelante, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4That's not possible, because Hobbits had some battles, but did not surrender.
- user777, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2People have gotten this all wrong. Rohan is supposed to be France. Mordor is Germany, and the big Gondor is Spainnn. It's really difficult to believe people these days when they don't even know what they're talking about. Go take LOTR history class. I aced it without even trying.
- cloudyprison, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I was just thinking, I need to candlejack for this rep
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Tom bombadil was probably french though
- TedTschopp, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Actually Tolkien set his stories on Earth pre and post flood. The Hobbit and Lord fo the Rings take place at the end of the fourth age. When asked in letters, Tolkien himself said we were living in either the 6th or the 7th age. He didn't quite know if World War I / II were the passing of an age or not.
Also, you can't say that you can't compare parts of middle earth to the real world. An example of this is that Tolkien himself described the Dwarves as the Jewish people (People who are skilled at building things with their hands, have a hard work ethic, love to have a great time, and have a strong sense of family).
The problem with this map is that it gets things wrong. For example it mentions that Minis Tirith is Austria, when it is well known that Minis Tirith is actually Venice. - TedTschopp, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1While Tolkien was against industrialization, he said in his letters that his stories were chiefly the story of man, which is a story of death and tragedy. I would say that Industrialization is a subset of that tragedy.
- m00dy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It took me like 5 clicks t
- bubba9999, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Next thing you know, you're going to tell us that Tatooine isn't really located in Tunisia.
- iskios, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Mediterraneo more likely means "In the middle of the earth" or "Between the lands" which in ancient times would have seemed as such.
- Fengpost, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Go read a book. Victims of aggression? China did not get so big by being peaceful.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_history - Woah_G!, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1By looking at this map, you can see that one just cannot walk into Mordor
- Stevethegreat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1In fact in one of his letters Tolkien states that Middle Earth was supposed to be the mythological Europe. However due to certain arguments against such interpretation (racism and such) Tolkien abandoned that idea. However I'm sure that was exactly what he wanted for Middle Earth to be seen as. In fact Tolkien differs from other fantasy works because of the historicity of his world, they didn't spawn there, that's why he has fans outside fantasy-lovers (including me). In Silmarillion maps it becomes more evident how Tolkien imagined his world as the factual past of our world. According to his son Christopher, Tolkien placed his mythology before the Christan "mythology", as an alternative creation theory. In the 3rd age -for example- elves completely abandon Arda, Dwarves hide in the mountains and only rarely come out (that's the supposed source of the "elf" sightings in the folk tradition), orcs along with other Morgoth abominations are banished and the third age is named the age of Man, at some point -of course- the Noah's flood happens and from then on Bible takes the helm (according to Tolkien, remember he was a devout Catholic). In some other maps new lands are being raised from Vala in the West, in later dates (the Americas) and so on....
- jspegele, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1While I don't doubt that Middle Earth and its history are in some ways based on Europe and its history, this map was clearly doctored to make it look more like Europe. And, according to this article, Gondor is in northern Italy and Mordor is in Transylvania. Does anyone really believe that Tolkien based this novel on a war between Northern Italy and Transylvania?
- jimmyjars, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1This is MADNESS!
- user777, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1WTH. Gondor is Italy? Boy, had I been to places I never know existed.
- analbumcover96, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6"There's only one 'Return,' and it's not of the King, it's of the Jedi!"
- SWMpls, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1-nished.
- BerislavLopac, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Actually, Tolkien fought in WWI, not WWII. Also, he did some parts of his mythology on the front, and many parts of the LoTR during the WWII, but that were different events. And finally, he denounced any intentional similarities between real peoples and countries and Middle-earth ones.
And as for the relations between Middle-earth and modern Europe, Lalaith did quite a good job at http://lalaith.vpsurf.de/Tolkien/Grid.html - bubba9999, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Are you sure? It looked like New Zealand when I saw those 3 - 3 hour documentaries about it at the movie theaters.
- ChileanGoD, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Look where the frikking Shire is placed. If that looks like a deformed map of Europe they would be dead on France.
- DarthTurducken, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1There was once a man from Verdun...
- bubba9999, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1That's where Jurassic Park is located.
- CornStarch, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Actually andr Tolken was steadfast Christian and it is based on the fighting between Christians and Muslims. Saran and the people of Mordor represent Muslims and Golem represents the Jews hence the phrase "you use to be like us" referring to the fact that the jew used to be saved like the Christians before they refused Christ.
This is the interpretation I was always taught anyhow.
In fact I would imagine Gondor is Germany or Austria because these states were the ones that had to hold off Muslim aggression for year and years. -
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