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36 Comments
- cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That used to be the Hollywood model. Talent (actors, directors, behind the scenes people)
all worked together for a single studio or set of studios. - Leonaken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2According to Slashdot, Pixar has also been able to kill off Toy Story 3, which Pixar was against but Disney was going ahead with. Looks like this merger is turning out very positive in its infancy.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Pixar like Apple are starting to stink, did you see the incredibles?, haven't seen so much violence in an animated movie."
Yeah, I saw it.. it was one of the best animated films I've ever seen. - cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think Leonaken point was that Toy Story 3 is going to be made based on how
good a story they can make of it, instead of trying to produce a sequel to
generate revenue and appeal to a fan base.
My point (which I did not complete) was that Disney (and Hollywood) will never
go completely back to the old model where all the talent was under one roof.
It has been too cost effective to sub-contract parts of projects to companies
outside the studio, and companies like Pixar itself became so good at their craft
because they could work in thier own way, and not have some huge corporate
influence guiding thier every act.
Pixars influence on Disney should be positive, but (as even Steve Jobs pointed out)
there is a lot that Disney can offer to help Pixar improve as well.
The rest of Hollywood will watch what happens and try to learn new things from
the merger, or learn to take advantage of the market in the meantime. - seravi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Watch FF7 Advent Children and you will even see people slashing each other with sword lol ^_^
- Meshyf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I doubt hollywood will ever be what it once was.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm not making it complicated you are, don't project on me, what some child perceive as evil others don't, it depends on way too many factors that are not the point of this threat.
BTW when I was a child superman or the super friends, all of them grown men/women, faced bad people one on one, the scene I talked about is about a guy sending missiles to a defenseless WOMAN and couple of KIDS, apart of being CRUEL and EVIL it pushed the envelope way too much.
One thing I give to pixar is they turned down the violence a notch, if you have seen the rough cuts or story boards on the DVD you can see it was a little worse (in violence terms).
I understand the fact movie studios have to sell for both audiences parents and kids and this movie in particular focused on the parents side, if this hurts any pixar fanboys here on Digg I'm sorry for pulling the carpet below you.
Brad Bird's only masterpiece is Iron Giant, Incredible fell way too short.
And to close my argument The incredible DVD didn't sell as good as its predecessors:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/07/02/cnpixar02.xml
Read it and weep. - neocitron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0pixar is great... can't wait to see "cars"
- Kashey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Most of the companies still don't understand that team is more important then money. I come. I fix your servers and I leave. Do I care how they run after I leave?. I DON'T GIVE A *****!!. Do I care how they are fixed. Yes I do but depending on the money I will get from that contract. Full time employment and good environment gives every professional a motive for taking really good care of stuff he/she does. And care for the company care for other employees. And most important a proudness of his/her work.
Modern business model makes companies marching on the spot. And they wonder why. - avocade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I can't think of greater news than having Catmull and Lasseter bossing over _both_ Pixar and Disney movies. I was a bit hesitant at cheering over the announcement at first, but after hearing this news, and that Lasseter immediately axed Toy Story 3 (GO JOHN!), I won't do anything but!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Pixar like Apple are starting to stink, did you see the incredibles?, haven't seen so much violence in an animated movie."
OMG animated people punched each other!!!!!
Holy ***** kids are going to murder people because of that!!!! - mr_cheese28, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nothing but good can come from having someone as innovated as Steve Jobs on the board of directors of Disney, & this story is just one example why.
- applekid805, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Pixar like Apple are starting to stink, did you see the incredibles?, haven't seen so much violence in an animated movie."
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, The Incredibles was a great movie
I think I've watched it way too many times - glitch47, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
Cquinnd--
Here's where I will disagree with you... I can tell you that the people involved with the Disney version of Toy Story genuinely wanted to make a good story. It wasn't just about money. Also, I'm tired of people thinking companies like Disney and Microsoft are evil because they want to make a profit. The goal of every company is to make a good product and to make money-- even Pixar. Why? Money means survival. Money means putting food on your family's table and it means being able to continue making movies. As far as Disney being greedy, did you know that Pixar animators make 20% LESS than Disney animators?
- glitch47, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Leonaken-- Slashdot is wrong. Toy Story 3 will be made. I will just be made at Pixar instead of Disney.
- StanrickKubley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Anyway, I really hope they do shift the business model back to what it once was, might make some actor's egos get brought back down to work becuase they have to see the same person every bluddy day."
The old Hollywood system had a few benefits, and on the whole they produced lots of good movies. But for every benefit they had, a hundred benefits can be found in the current system. For one, it used to be impossible to make a movie for, say, $100,000. That all changed with the collapse of old Hollywood. It also used to be damn near impossible to break in to the business. The average age of a director was 50. It was a closed system run by old people. The current system is way better. - killin1a4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Yeah, I saw it.. it was one of the best animated films I've ever seen."
-Chompy
I do agree good sir. - Kashey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Most of the companies still don't understand that team is more important then money. I come. I fix your servers and I leave. Do I care how they run after I leave?. I DON'T GIVE A *****!!. Do I care how they are fixed. Yes I do but depending on the money I will get from that contract. Full time employment and good environment gives every professional a motive for taking really good care of stuff he/she does. And care for the company care for other employees. And most important a proudness of his/her work.
Modern business model makes companies marching on the spot. And they wonder why. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ok, compare toy story, finding nemo and monster inc with the incredibles and it is a VIOLENT movie, sure maybe wont push children into killing each other but try to explain a 5 years old why a guy shoots missles to planes with children on board.
It was good for adults but not for kids. - ArthurSucks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Brad Bird is a blooming genius!
- TheXeno, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah, Catmull honest to is my second cousin, and I consider myself cool simply by association of this story. But about the article, last summer my family went and visited Pixar and "cousin Ed" as we like to call him, and they took us through a personal little tour. They do have a fantastic philosphy surrounding the company, I love the perpetual education they *get* to go through as part of their job. (Ed was taking a yoga class that week) Plus apparently they open it up to the public as well. Suffice to say, Pixar is to old disney, as cloud is to sky. (meaning, Pixar operates the way Disney used to be. Hopefully they can get Disney back in to shape!)
- Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"That used to be the Hollywood model. Talent (actors, directors, behind the scenes people)
all worked together for a single studio or set of studios."
Kinda like Tim Burton's studio (and some other niche directors) who still kinda do this? - beeblebrox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The fact is that, by this definition, Disney animation has been unHollywood since the beginning. Disney animators are salaried employees. Directors and producers came up through the ranks after years of apprenticeship in other roles. This is how Disney has always functioned.
Pixar didn't create this model or even perfect it. In fact, it's the model that almost every big animation studio follows. This is just another example of Jobs getting credit for innovating something that he simply borrowed from those who came before him. - JesseJ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah, it would be great if they'd start making 'films' instead of 'content'.
- scott1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"unHollywood"?I think it redo Hollywood business model would be a more apporite name.I don't think it would sperd to all hollywood.
- Sturmur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0bonlebon,
Read your so called proof full through when you post it:
"[The Incredibles] is the best-selling home video so far this year. Analysts said the shortfall stemmed from shops keeping DVDs on shelves for shorter periods leading to slumping sales after an initial burst.
Pixar's warning followed a similar disclosure by rival DreamWorks in May when sales of Shrek 2 DVDs disappointed."
Read it and weep. - StanrickKubley, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0First off, I work in film and animation, and I adore Pixar's movies. However, Pixar is maybe the only company that benefits from as much hyperbole than Apple. Steve Jobs's success seems to function only in relation to a large, powerful enemy. In computers it was IBM, then Microsoft. In animation, it's the large animation studios and now Hollywood as a whole.
But what they call Pixar's model is really no different than what Disney did for decades. It's typical in animation that artists are hired long-term, because the talent is hard to find and because the movies take so long to make. It's also typical for directors to come in from the outside.
A sense of recent history would also remind us that Disney was in Pixar's position in the nineties. They had a revival and a string of hits, and they seemed unstoppable. Until it all stopped. Disney was a hotbed of talent for a long time, and everyone wanted to work there. Everybody was happy, and everybody thought the ride would last forever.
I'm not poo-pooing Pixar, but people have to remember that Pixar is just a company, not an artistic love-in. It's a great place to work, and they're on top, and hopefully they'll stay that way, but a little perspective on the situation doesn't hurt. - ylocav, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0'a guy sending missiles to a defenseless WOMAN and couple of KIDS'
given, it's not animated... but i seem to recall lex luthor sending one missile to california and another to hackensack, and innocent, defenseless people being killed.
i fail to see how i am making it more complicated by saying 'bad guys do bad things.' it doesn't get much simpler than that.
almost ANY superhero cartoon or movie has some element involving the protection of innocent people. i might also add, by that point in the movie one knew that they were not exactly helpless, as you claim. nor did it push the envelope, similar elements have been in plenty other cartoons. snow white was innocent, yet the witch tried to kill her. the hunters killed bambi's mom. scar tried to kill simba, and did kill mufasa. and those aren't even superhero movies! i'm not sure what you expected when you saw incredibles, but there was certainly nothing pushing the envelope so far as violence or cruelty.
despite being 'lower than estimates' in february, the incredibles (widescreen) was still the best selling DVD of 2005, and the fullscreen version was #3.
http://www.billboard.biz/bb/biz/yearendcharts/2005/dvdtitl.jsp
as you said, read it and weep. - mc1123, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I agree with meshyf. Hollywood is a giant black hole that sucks any remaining virtue left in california closer to eradication each and every second. Just look at the recent remake of the Dukes of Hazzard!
- Trjn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Ok, compare toy story, finding nemo and monster inc with the incredibles and it is a VIOLENT movie, sure maybe wont push children into killing each other but try to explain a 5 years old why a guy shoots missles to planes with children on board.
It was good for adults but not for kids."
Are you kidding? It was good for both. The violence was nearly a null point for most, because go back and look at some older Disney movies, or even just your general older saturday morning cartoon.
Remember Mulan? Thats a reasonably recent Disney movie based on a WAR. Lion King? Mufasa dies and when Scar takes over the place becomes dark, and evil.
I don't think the Incredibles was too violent, I remember seeing Power Rangers movies in the cinema that had to have been just as bad when I was in the age that Pixar/Disney movies generally target as teh key demographic, what I think the REAL problem here is that people are too ***** overprotective.
Right now I'm stockpiling the good Disney and Pixar DVDs (read, all Pixar, most older Disney) and when I have kids, they will be shown them as good wholesome entertainment which also happens to teach good values.
Anyhow, if you think the Incredibles was violent, try reading the Bible. The main character gets crucified. - Warptera, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0You mean it will never be craptacular?
- ylocav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"try to explain a 5 years old why a guy shoots missles to planes with children on board."
my then-3 year old, 5 year old, and 6 year old didn't have any questions. he is a BAD GUY so he does BAD THINGS, and that's why they must stop him. very simple. why are you trying to make it more complicated than it is? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Pixar is in the non-interactive games development business.
- SirBriggs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0As well they should.
- grayapple, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Wonder if they will scrap The Disney Channel and start it from scratch... (can ya see the joke!?!?... no.. sorry)
Anyway, I really hope they do shift the business model back to what it once was, might make some actor's egos get brought back down to work becuase they have to see the same person every bluddy day. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Pixar like Apple are starting to stink, did you see the incredibles?, haven't seen so much violence in an animated movie.
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