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95 Comments
- Hypersapien, on 10/12/2007, -4/+70It's called Evolution. Except that it isn't dependent on random mutations. This evolution is thousands of times faster and more efficient because it comes from very smart people who watch and learn from the mistakes of those who don't survive, and it's been going on for the better part of a decade now.
- w33t, on 10/12/2007, -6/+52wow, culture shock!
Sorry about that guys. I'm really a nice guy, I swear. Here, let me repost without the "spam".
It's that evolution thing you speak of which gave us this urge to share in the first place. Sharing information is inherent and natural to humans. Sharing ideas is just what people do. Being able to share ideas is what has allowed us to create agriculture, societies and cities. Movies, pictures, music, software - anything that can be shared over the internet is essentially, in one form or another, an idea; and ideas (especially good ones) want to be free. - datagod, on 10/12/2007, -6/+36"Sharing doesn't put food on the table...blah blah blah"
It also doesn't remove the food either.
Humming Happy Birthday to yourself does not rob the copyright holders of cash. Humming it on a TV show without paying a royalty does not either, but they will complain and get you in trouble. It is stupid.
Copyright on Intellectual items is crazy. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25That story and more in this week's issue of Duh magazine.
- EricAnderton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24"and it's been going on for the better part of a decade now."
Actually, try 20+ years now. :) Software piracy goes all the way back to the C64 scene "copy parties" and overseas pirate BBS numbers*. It was all sneaker-net, 300baud or bust. The very same kinds of smart people on top of this kind of behavior today were at it way back then in the form of blue boxes, PAL fixes, trainers, and of course, demos.
If you really want to go back - that same spirit in the C64 'scene' was inherited from the phone and RF phreaks from the decades before (see: John Draper). While this broadens the class of piracy to encompass technology of multiple kinds, its humbling to consider that its been going on for over 30 years now.
(*- it may go back further than that, but I don't get the impression that g33ks were getting all that excited about swapping spreadsheet software for their 8086's at the time. Plus there was no feasable way a hobbyist could pirate Atari carts either...) - invader, on 10/12/2007, -13/+33i was going to digg++ w33t's post.. but because of the spam, i'm gonna have to digg-- & block/report
- Krush, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Actually the RIAA doesn't rip anyone off, they sue 12 year old little girls. The real truth is everyone is getting ripped off. The difference between movie theaters now and when I was a kid are, the screens are smaller to fit more theaters in the same building, and the tickets are more expensive. Mean while home theater has grown leaps and bounds, vastly improving the experience of watching at home. As the gap between the movie going experience and home theater experience shrinks, DVD sales go up and so does piracy. If the movie companies want to make more money, they need to improve the movie going experience, which would cut down on the losses they see from piracy.
Now the music industry is whole different ball of wax, and I know, I was in it for 13 years. You pay for opportunity in the music biz, so artist see little at the start. If I could increase your odds of winning the lottery from one in a million to one in a hundred, how much would pay for that ticket? This is what signing with a major label does, it increases your odds of going big time. Artists also screw themselves more often than not by not knowing the business and allowing lawyers and reps to make decisions for them. I had a group go from my record label to Interscope back in 2000, and now matter how much I tried to help them, they were blinded by money. They had a bidding war going between 3 major labels, I told them to forget the signing advance money and negotiate for points and creative control, there lawyer lead them to negotiate for the largest advance (the cash). They signed with Interscope with a 1.5 million dollar advance, 150 grand (10%) of that went to the lawyer right off the bat, guaranteed money. So there lawyer made 150g's for 2 weeks of work and they were now 1.5 million in debit, with nobody to blame but themselves. Blame the labels all you want, believe all the crap people spew on the net about the labels, but it's a business and if you don't know what your doing like any other business, you will get screwed. They failed, but at no fault of the label, the label put them on the Anger Management Tour with Eminem, got there video on MTV, and pushed there product as best they could, but they made poor choices on there own. They hired Korn's producer, even thought they didn't sound like Korn, and they left the people who really cared about there music behind. The label eventually dropped them for poor sales, which is what any business would do. They say they got screwed, but I was there and they took a great opportunity offered by Interscope and screwed themselves. I've seen this more than once, and most artist I know that claim they got screwed had all the opportunity but people didn't buy there records, that's not the labels fault. Do you really think the label doesn't want people to buy the record? You should also know that most successful artists renegotiate there contracts one or to albums into it, this is so common the labels don't even fight them on it anymore. Just remember, you only see what people want you to see when your on the outside looking in.
Piracy of music has two factors in my opinion, one is the industry was to slow in moving to digital sales and are taking less risk when it comes to introducing new music. The second is people want ***** for free, and it's easy to pirate music these days. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Remember, usenet does not exist, k?
- darkwurm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10There a a couple of issues here. The main problem I have with the whole "Lost revenue" argument is the assumption that if you couldn't get it for free then you would certainly buy it. I can't say how wrong that really is. Many of these pirates simply cant afford and would not buy the things that they pirate anyways. So how is it exactly that the company lost revenue? If anything contributes to their lost revenue, its the steady increase in cost to the average consumer. When you consider how much a copy of their music/movie costs them to produce the % profit for them on a per item basis is ridiculous. If you consider the fact that the legitimate PC streams you can purchase legally costs more than the retail product you would by from the store, in a less portable format I might add, their "lost revenue" claims seem even more unfounded. If they don't wont to lose money, how about making a movie that doesn't suck, or a full cd of music people actually want to hear. How about cutting that promo budget campaign down a bit to lower the overall cost. How bout giving the actors a little less say 1 million or so. You know if they didn't make so many crappy movies no one wants, they might make more money. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been to a movie theater in the last year, not because I download, simply because the movies are terrible. Most of them are so bad that they make a otherwise mediocre movie a blockbuster. They may want to blame piracy, but I think it has more to do with the fact that people can now find out if they want to buy something or not before they buy it, which means there needs to be more quality to actually get the sale. But that's just me.
- javiel, on 07/08/2008, -2/+11All Anti-Piracy organizations should stop, they will never win. Pirates will only get smarter. >=]
- saleens281, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10at some point the RIAA needs to stop and ask itself:
How much money did we lose to people downloading *****?
How much did we lose by alienating the customers and having them vow to never buy ANYTHING again? - JayRod, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"10 million people are hunting for digital booty at any given time"
I actually hunt for real live booty all the time. - hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8There is something called collective property too. If someone comes in and decides that the collective property is now his private property, should he not be punished?
- banditking, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I would not pirate anything if they didnt pay the likes of TOM CRUISE $20 million-plus for a movie.
- anillop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Exactly
- templest, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9usewhat?
- OwenX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+610 million people are searching for digital booty at a time... heh... digital booty...
- dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Piracy of music has two factors in my opinion, one is the industry was to slow in moving to digital sales and are taking less risk when it comes to introducing new music. The second is people want ***** for free, and it's easy to pirate music these days."
Your long-winded point came down to this. But I disagree with you on the seconde point. Obviously, people want ***** for free, but for a certain convenience, people are willing to pay. For example, I'm willing to pay 99 cents a song for a song that I can burn as many times as I want, copy as many times as I want, will play in anything I want it to, can be downloaded in the highest quality possible (if I choose), and if I lose the song due to some sort of data corruption, I can redownload it again, for free, because I ***** purchased the thing, and I deserve to OWN it.
THAT is why I pirate. Because there is not a single music service out there that offers all of those features. - OverThere, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I don't even remember the first rule of a place that doesn't exist.
- templest, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The RIAA is a corporate entity with an agenda.
People that work for that entity must side with the same views, or gtfo.
The people working for the RIAA will never stop to think anything,
*until* someone out-guns them.
Which is going to be a lot more work than you can even imagine.
People, this is why I really despise the whole "bottom-line" concept.
United States laws are setup in such a way that they *can't* *not* do
things like this. They're legally bound to make as much money as
possible, not make moral decisions. - JamesWilson, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Maybe the copyright system is broken? How about that?
If millions of people want to do something, you can't stop them--and maybe you shouldn't try.
We need the millions of people who download things need to vote to make it not illegal anymore ala Pirate Party. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@invader and w33t
w33t wasnt spamming you, he was giving you free music, you know, like the article is kind of about - YourTechSupport, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I thought we called it adaptation? Wait....
- djpolstee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I agree. Like the MPAA says that theatre sales are down because of pirating, but a recent poll (I heard on the news, no I can't find a linky, I wish I could) said that people aren't going to movie theatres because of all the commercials. They really talk to themselves.
- Laughingman234, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5wow...forbes got it before the RIAA and everyone else...kinda funny...
- retard098, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5this is stupid, everytime a lame torrent site is raided news is full of supposed "new" technology but am i missing something? everyone is still using the same old stff with no change from the people who were dependent on the site that was raided. sure there is private warez that is much more in debpth and bigger than piratebay was but 99.9% of the users who were dependent on it won't make it past sites like piratebay
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They technically didn't loose much, but they are probably going off of the total estimated value of all media pirated. (Which would make it worth fighting for, if you look at it through their perspective)
Now, I'm not saying they have any right to invade our privacy and to trancend laws to get what they want. I'm only saying that they wont likely stop so easily, just as we wont. - retral, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Duh? I hate when people restate the obvious.
Btw..
"New York -
Want to download a shaky camcorder bootleg of X-Men: The Last Stand? Online freeloaders will have to look a bit farther after Wednesday's raid of The Pirate Bay, a Swedish-run Web site that links entertainment junkies to free, illegal downloads."
Lies - The site already says it'll be back up and functional within a day or two. - VargVikernes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4In other news, scientists have discovered that although seen black at night, the sky is actually blue.
- Skrot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I think part of the problem is that the industry doesn't listen to its users. At least when it comes to entertainment. From my point of view, I pirate because of:
1) Availability of the product.
Why should I wait three months to watch the latest Lost when I can grab it from the Internet and watch it any time I want?
2) Quality of the product.
Why would I want to watch Lost on ***** analogue television when I can grab it from the Internet in superior HD quality?
(HDTV is not available where I live)
3) Freedom to use the product the way I want to.
Why should I want to watch Lost on my television? What if I want to watch it on my PSP? Or on my xbox connected to a HD projector? What if I don't want to watch it when it airs, but rather an hour later, or the next day? This means no crappy DRM and the usage of open standards/open formats.
Problem is: Piracy delivers exactly this, the industry does not. They should embrace the technology, not fear it.
Solution is: Start selling high quality (HD) content on line in a open format format without DRM, at the same time as airing (TV) or release (movies/music). - SuperGhost, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Torrents and the torrent network is great technology. No versioning issues. It could benefit enterprises.
- existx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Due to the next generation math being used by these companies, I don't know if I can get this number correctly the first time.
I'll take a guess from their past claims:
2.1 Million + 3.4 Million = 50 Million .. right? - Melr00k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Today I went to see X-men 3 and when it ended I snuck in to see DaVinci Code as well. Does that make me a pirate? Will they be coming for my shoes soon. Should I be worried? Neither movie was worth the 11 bucks they charge at the theater. Or the 10 bucks for popcorn and soda. But if I would have downloaded it from BT, it would not have been on as big of a screen with as good sound or whatever but the popcorn would have cost a buck and the soda 75 cents. So I'm a thief, I guess. Been one all my life. I've been sneaking into movies since I was a child. Does the MPAA want my shoes. Not just the ones I wore but the others that I could have worn to get me from one theater to the next.
Or can they just suck my dick? - webhead74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@antihexe:
I totally understand where you're coming from. My comment above was tongue in cheek, with a tinge of truth.
When I started doing what I do, I was fresh out of college & didn't have much $$$. I couldn't afford most of the software / OSes out at the time (things were much different 10 or 11 years ago) so open source / linux started to get my interest - if for no other reason than it was the only thing I could afford. I certainly couldn't afford legal copies of NT or Novell (although I still had a few copies lying around ;-) - ACalcutt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2no...it won't...but lets tell them it does
- shinynew, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4what a ***** article.
and suprise suprise P2P will all the sudden stop, just because one tracker went down. Infact only about three of my torrents are comeing up red because of this, and they have DHT enabled so it really doesn't matter - dubloe7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3gotta love decentralized tracking.
were evolving before they do anything, it just comes into effect once its needed. - vvvv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There's an interview with the CEO and president of the RIAA here:
http://news.com.com/2102-1027_3-6076669.html?tag=st.util.print
...that touches on this issue. In the interview, RIAA CEO Cary Sherman says: "We've long accepted the notion that you're not going to have a pirate-proof system. The idea is to leave that to the hacking community. " It sounds like the goal of organizations like the RIAA at least is to drive piracy underground, by going after highly visible sources like Napster or some random Kazaa user, because they know they'll never eradicate it. - el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ darkwurm
The lost revenue comes from the fact that someone is using a product that they didn't pay the fee to do so. I still produced a product, but i didn't get compensated for it. Thats called "lost revenue".. - davidro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Instead pirates will get more private and use new tools."
They've probably got the notion that they can't eliminate piracy, what they're doing in cases like this is just blocking a particular avenue when it becomes too easy and popular. That leads some less technically-minded people to go back to finding legal ways to obtain things, while the geeks have to busy themselves with creating the next big thing.
I may not like the Pirate Bay going down, but it's hard to argue that letting it thrive would have been in the industry's best interests. - dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2'"It's a period of real adoption," Garland says. "We're watching as downloading television and film content is moving out of the bleeding-edge, dorm-room phase and toward the mainstream."'
As I've said before, it's because thats what consumers want, but, there is NO decent alternative..
The closest to bittorrenting TV shows is the iTunes Store, which is far worse quality, not totally sure but doesn't allow subscription based-stuff (I'm fairly sure I'm wrong with this, but it's no where near as convienent as, for example, TVTAD).
Also, importantly, around $100 for a series is far to much, espically when a DVD, with has far far higher quality, special features, packaging, and quite a few other benefits, would be around $70 (Using 24 as an example for pricing)
Hollywood and other media-content-publishers really need to catch on to this "evil" bittorrent/downloading movies thing before it does acctualy cause them loses..
- Ben - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I've been pirating software, games and all sorts of media since I got my hands on a viable medium for usage. (I was 7, when I was truly introduced.) Quite honestly, I don't pay for most things, only for the fact that I don't *Have* any money to spend. I've only recently come of age, and been able to apply for work. I'll leave my age out of this, but the fact is, I don't buy the software.. Because I can't, and I wouldn't otherwise.
- fuzzytoad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@fatdog789
Movie/Audio productions *do* employ thousands of people work on producing Films, DVDs and CDs. They also used to employ hundreds of thousands who worked on LPs, 8-tracks, Cassettes, VHS tapes, Laser Discs, etc.
I don't see you crying about all those people who were put out of work when the technology that employed them became archaic and no longer part of a sound business model.
The whole reason we have restrictive DRM and the MP/RIAA want even STRICTER DRM is because they don't want to abandon their current *dead* business model. The TV studios are finally starting to wake up to the fact that allowing free downloads of their most popular Shows pays off, big time. Why haven't the movie and record studios embraced this technology?
There always have been and always will be people who will download stuff for free just because it's free. Those type of people wouldn't have spent a dime on what they're downloading to begin with, so there's absolutely no loss to the companies.
Those of us who want to listen to/watch something that otherwise wouldn't be available to us at all(forcing only certain music/movies/television to certain regions) usually end up buying whatever we've downloaded, if it's even available for purchase somewhere.
As far as software purchases.. umm, didn't the employees at EA have to sue the company because they weren't being paid a fair wage based on sales compared to the 15-hour works days they were putting in?
Didn't the RIAA just get into trouble for not paying royalties to artists on songs being sold via iTunes?
I have zero remorse for companies which pull that kind of ***** on the employees "pirates" are supposedly hurting. - gamerzworld, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3riaa lost....
2.1 mill in pirating
3.4 mill in making more DRM
*Estimates* - supradave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When copyright lasts longer than my expected lifetime, copyright, which in the U.S. is to be for limited times becomes infinite. Nobody is saying that we shouldn't pay for what we consume, it's just that the IP holders think they deserve payment for their works forever.
Life plus 70 years means up to 120-140 years under copyright in which you or me cannot use that work for anything except to give money to who? Their children? That's not the agreement I made when I was born in this country. 95 years for corporate copyright.
As for copyright being broken, I agree. What if after 20 years the copyright system became an opt-in program where if Disney wants to keep Mickey Mouse copyrighted for 10,000 years in 20 year spurts, Disney should pay a tax for that ($1/year would be reasonable). It's not unfair to Disney and it allows works of questionable value to become public domain more quickly. - fletch101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My best friend explained how mpaa has always been hypocrites and ripping off kids so turn around + interest was only fair. They would not let us see R rated movies because we were not adults yet charged us full price because we were not kids. They can't have their cake and eat it too he explained. So he would collect old thrown away stubs and would explain that we had to go call our moms or something . Worked every time and I did this for about 2 years as that's about how long I figured they had been overcharging me. I think he did it for till at least he was 17 if not longer. An eye for an eye plus interest we used to say!
- ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Piracy will never end. I simply don't have the money to afford the amount of media I want to use. Sure, I pay for what I can afford, but if there is a new DVD/Video game out that I want, and I'm broke, I will pirate it. Who loses? No one, RIAA/MPAA weren't going to get my money anyway. If I really want a DVD/Game badly, I will shell out. My reason? It's time consuming to download, convert/burn, and try to run pirated material. So if I buy something(ie. Half-Life 2,GTA) it's more out of convenience.
- alucardx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2SPOILER: PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS PIRATE THINGS
:D - norz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3when razor* (edonkey server) was raided, users could rely on emule's new decentralized system: kad.
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8If my enemies go to bed hungy, that is a good thing. If they happen across something pretty in the course of their lives, I want it, and don't see any moral dilemma in taking it without compensating them for it. If they paid someone for making it, I don't care if those people stay fed either.
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