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An Iranian's vision of Jesus' life stirs debate
latimes.com — The Iranian director's new film is based on the Islamic version of the life of Jesus, depicting the man Christians believe to be the messiah and son of God as a tormented Judean prophet foretelling the coming of Muhammad, the founder of the Muslim faith.
miranda622- 436 diggs
- digg it
- reflex768, on 05/01/2008, -39/+112I think the Iranians ought to exercise greater religious sensitivity before producing such inflammatory blasphemy. No doubt scores of Muslim embassies will be burned down by enraged Christian mobs because of this producer's culturally arrogant actions. Or maybe not. :-)
- Teburninator, on 05/01/2008, -9/+29Oh, I see what you did thar.
- FDisk, on 05/01/2008, -11/+2He didn't, but after your comment it looks like he did now. :)
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- 8randon, on 05/01/2008, -25/+4definitely (at least hopefully) not... why should "Christian mobs" care about a specific producer's views?
The article says that the major premise was that Jesus "was not crucified or resurrected from the dead" and therefore "the message implies that Christianity, a faith of 2 billion people and the core of much Western philosophy, is based on a falsehood." Why does Christianity need to be based solely upon this resurrection part? Can't the "morals" that Christianity tries to teach still be passed on?
In my opinion, this is much less "blasphemous" than the Danish newspapers' depiction of Mohammed.- joshmoney, on 05/01/2008, -2/+9whoosh...
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1yeah, pretty sure that was the sound of the point flying over his head.
- dave11980, on 05/01/2008, -6/+10Christianity in it's entirety is based upon the crucification and resurrection or Jesus Christ.
- ogore, on 05/01/2008, -4/+6So your saying if he didn't die no one would have listened to his message?
- estacado, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5Would Nirvana be as popular if Curt Cobain didn't kill himself?
- drachemorder, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3If he didn't die there wouldn't have BEEN any message. The resurrection is the whole point. The moral teachings aren't really all that new and different --- the Jews already had those anyway.
But don't take my word for it. Read 1 Corinthians 15. Paul explains it much better than I can. - Charlotte_Web, on 05/01/2008, -2/+31 Corinthians 15:17: "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins."
- ogore, on 05/01/2008, -4/+6So your saying if he didn't die no one would have listened to his message?
- Stormwern, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4The cartoons were satirical, thus by definition never claimed to be accurate, this movie does. Neither is anything to get upset about imo.
- Fartbandit, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Yay for missing the point of his comment entirely... :/
- ...---..., on 05/01/2008, -0/+1right - it was SARCASM
- joshmoney, on 05/01/2008, -2/+9whoosh...
- Borgcube636, on 05/01/2008, -20/+48It appears you do not understand much religious history. Islam believes that Jesus was a great prophet, and they think very highly of him. In fact, Jesus is mentioned many times in the Quran, and is part of Islams history. It is not religious blasphemy or mockery.
- Maevirko69, on 05/01/2008, -7/+8It's blasphemy to Christians. But I digress...reflex was being fecetious.
- ZenMojo, on 05/01/2008, -1/+18Similar to facetious except with extra feces.
- ogore, on 05/01/2008, -3/+5If what you say is true aren't any conflicting religious beliefs blasphemous to the opposing religion :)
- o0joshua0o, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5Hence all the fighting. Read a history book.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1it's not blasphemy to Christians. it's the views of a Muslim. if this producer was a Christian and was claiming this sort of thing about Jesus, THEN it would be blasphemy.
- AzureRise, on 05/01/2008, -3/+29It was a joke referring to over reactions of things like showing pictures of Muhammad. You completely missed the point.
- Vic333, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Note to self, take sarcasm class.
- Charlotte_Web, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1Most major religions have tried to integrate Jesus in some way, shape or form.
- Maevirko69, on 05/01/2008, -7/+8It's blasphemy to Christians. But I digress...reflex was being fecetious.
- chadarizona, on 05/01/2008, -4/+5recognize sarcasm much?
- chronusmcgee, on 05/01/2008, -17/+10Christian theology is based on mercy and love, while Islam choses the opposite, thus it isn't an accident that the adherents of Islam choose to act violently at the drop of a hat.
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -5/+10Unlike the notoriously peaceful 'Christian' nation invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, India (to pick a few of many, many 'God is on our side' adventures).
Funny how mercy and love turns into a 'righteous war' at the drop of a hat.
It's just the pursuit of power, i.e. business as usual.
The Westerner's believe right is on their side, the Moslems believe right is on their side, the Chinese believe right is on their side.
Ook, ook.
sigh- kingmanic, on 05/01/2008, -3/+5Actually, it'd be more accurate to say china believes inertia is on their side while the west and the Muslims believe it's God on their side.
- Charlotte_Web, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2We invaded Iraq in the name of Christ? Is that what the debate in Congress centered on?
That's news to me... - TechMike, on 05/01/2008, -3/+0How pagan you are! America is called a Christian nation because it was founded on Christian principles and mores (although that's changed a lot lately), and because of the overwhelming number of people who call themselves Christian without understanding what that means. True Christians will be upset with a movie that shows Jesus only as a prophet who gave good teaching before he suddenly retired from public life at 33, instead of the Christin view that he died and rose to life again.
And if you happen to follow the one true faith, of course God is on your side.- nullifidian0, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3I think you missed off a /sarcasm...
Actually, I *hope* you missed off a /sarcasm...
- nullifidian0, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3I think you missed off a /sarcasm...
- Stormwern, on 05/01/2008, -1/+8Pick any demographic and you'll find douchebags, it's the nature of humanity.
- nebkiwi, on 05/01/2008, -2/+5the Iraq war isn't Gods war, and from a biblical point of view was done badly. George Bush is an idiot.
- KhanneaNL, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Bla bla bla ***** bla
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -5/+10Unlike the notoriously peaceful 'Christian' nation invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, India (to pick a few of many, many 'God is on our side' adventures).
- slahser, on 05/01/2008, -6/+13Religion? Keep us out of it.
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -6/+1Has anyone heard of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat? He gave an awesome lecture titled MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE, which he did in response to Jimmy Swaggart. It's a classic
watch it here (subsequent parts are listed): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhazm0UdlTc - KhanneaNL, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5And the Iranians think they scored a sensitive hit for the cause of ISLAM, a few muddled christians mutter a halfhearted protest, the rest of the west barely notices.
- themastersb, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2The infidels must die!
- Teburninator, on 05/01/2008, -9/+29Oh, I see what you did thar.
- CC440, on 05/01/2008, -15/+94Regardless of how a Christian views this tale this is the correct story of Jesus as told in the Muslim faith. Think about how we view Moses, the analogy is the same. Jews view him as their savior, we view him as a prophet. There's really nothing for an educated and reasonable person to get riled up about here.
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -19/+3"Jews view him as their savior"
-wait, what? Then why are they Jews and not Christians?- zelah, on 05/01/2008, -0/+14He meant they view Moses as their savior, which is not correct either. They're still waiting for the messiah.
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3oh i see...that's what got me confused
- zelah, on 05/01/2008, -0/+14He meant they view Moses as their savior, which is not correct either. They're still waiting for the messiah.
- LucerinRed, on 05/01/2008, -3/+8Ummm yeah, Moses is not their savior. and Really, in my opinion, Aaron was a much better leader.
- Dush, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0Aaron, the guy who abandoned God and had the people worship a golden calf? That Aaron?
- pdeco, on 05/01/2008, -4/+11Educated and reasonable, you're asking for far to much.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1especially for someone who doesn't know the difference between "to" and "too" right?
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -12/+7except that an educated and "reasonable" person would not see the rationality of believing in something that there is no evidence for or following 1000 year old arab dogmas...
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -0/+9you can know the history and tenants of religions without believing them.
- sooperspook, on 05/01/2008, -3/+5There are plenty of educated and reasonable people who believe in a religion. Just because you don't doesn't mean they are wrong to do so.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Pardon me for wondering, but... since when did you become the person who decides what type of people are educated or reasonable? Wouldn't a truly logical and reasonable person realize that it's impossible to prove OR disprove anything that has to do with a belief founded on the unobservable? And wouldn't someone who exalts logic and reason and education as supreme at least do a LITTLE bit of research before vomiting out such a blatently ignorant proposition? Because it would seem that you're either woefully ignorant, egregiously stupid, or willfully deceitful to claim that there are no educated or reasonable people who claim adherance to either Islam or Christianity.
- Maevirko69, on 05/01/2008, -0/+20Jews don't view Moses as their savior. They view him as a prophet.
- pitlord, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Thank G-d! and thank you for clearing that up. I hate when non Jews misrepresent Judaism.
To clarify, we do not "believe in" ANY man before G-d because it is idolatrous. We believe that G-d will send the Moshiach (loosely translated as "messiah"), but we are forbidden from worshipping him or ANY other person or image INCLUDING Jesus and Mohammed.
-_-
In fact, anyone who wishes to serve the one true G-d who spoke to Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who blessed delivered the Israelites from bondage in Eqypt and spoke to Moses, they are also forbidden to pray or otherwise worship idols, including Jesus, "Allah" and Mohammed.
^^
All people of the world are children of Noah and are only bound to live by the Seven Noahide Laws:
http://www.noahide.org/
http://www.noahide.com
http://www.noahidenation.com
There is more info available, google it.
8^D
- pitlord, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Thank G-d! and thank you for clearing that up. I hate when non Jews misrepresent Judaism.
- BigCheezy, on 05/01/2008, -1/+13There is (should be, theologically) no difference between a Christian's and Jew's view of Moses, sorry.
- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5Should be no difference, but... My personal observation is that a lot of Christians ignore the whole Old Testament, completely misunderstand it, or deem it irrelevant due to the coming of Christ.
- nullifidian0, on 05/01/2008, -2/+5Except the bits where they get to hate gay folk. They *love* those bits.
- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5Should be no difference, but... My personal observation is that a lot of Christians ignore the whole Old Testament, completely misunderstand it, or deem it irrelevant due to the coming of Christ.
- ogore, on 05/01/2008, -2/+8Muslims believe in every christian prophet so why the anger?
- tomasII, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3So does satan.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I'm not sure that there IS any anger... just a bunch of diggers trying to make a scene.
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -6/+1Has anyone heard of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat? He gave an awesome lecture titled MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE, which he did in response to Jimmy Swaggart. It's a classic
watch it here (subsequent parts are listed): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhazm0UdlTc
It includes the prophecies that Jesus made of the "comforter"- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4In my faith, we recognize the "comforter" to be the Holy Ghost.
- jitterbits, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1In my house, we recognize the "comforter" to be the blanket on the bed.
- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4In my faith, we recognize the "comforter" to be the Holy Ghost.
- Suricou, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4"...nothing for an educated and reasonable person to get riled up about here."
No, but there are a lot of uneducted and/or unreasonable people just looking for a chance to get angry.- sooperspook, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0Unfortunately true. Makes me wish I could gag the lot of 'em. They give the rest of the religious community a bad image.
- KhanneaNL, on 05/01/2008, -6/+3I could effing care less aboyut this whole skydaddy business.
- sooperspook, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3If you didn't care, you wouldn't have made a comment.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1unless it's just attention-seeking behaviour...
- sooperspook, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3If you didn't care, you wouldn't have made a comment.
- bibiale, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1I agree with you. It is your believe, your personal opinion. There is no need to be upset, people are entitled to their own believes.
This movie or any other won't change my believe in Jesus as God's son! Its not insulting because it does not matter to me, its his believe, his view. - pitlord, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3WRONG!
We do NOT view Moses as our "saviour." He was our prophet and teacher, he was the most righteous Jew who has ever lived, but he was NEVER seen as a "saviour" by us Jews.
X^P
Please, do not speak for a religion that you don't understand. Worshipping ANY man is idolatry.
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -19/+3"Jews view him as their savior"
- falese, on 05/01/2008, -4/+75who cares. why can't we all just get along? i'm sure jesus and muhammad would probably get along famously.
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -25/+5before muhammad beheads jesus for not accepting islam
- falese, on 05/01/2008, -1/+9booo hisssss, you are ill informed my friend.
it must be time for karna to go night night, he's probably cranky and not thinking straight - SquareEnix, on 05/01/2008, -1/+18you idiot. prophet Muhammad spoke very highly of Jesus when he was alive.
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -1/+6There's an entire chapter in the Qur'an called Surah Maryam (Mary), dedicated to the life of Mary and the miraculous birth of Jesus. That is the chapter that this film is mainly focussed on.
- falese, on 05/01/2008, -1/+9booo hisssss, you are ill informed my friend.
- cnot3, on 05/01/2008, -1/+9Just make sure you don't draw a cartoon of them together.
- Rickler, on 05/01/2008, -12/+4Only if jesus gives him a couple 6 year old girls.
- nullifidian0, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2*Nine years old
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2same thing.
- jitterbits, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1It's not Rickler's fault. He was typing upside down.
- nullifidian0, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2*Nine years old
- makkaveli19, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4i'd like to point out that this movie has won an award in the vatican.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=42970 ... - Asianwaste, on 05/01/2008, -1/+9They would work together, use their powers, and fly around the galaxy defending Earth from the invading forces of the Evil Lord Xenu.
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4Wonder twin powers....ACTIVATE!
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4Wonder twin powers....ACTIVATE!
- solid12345, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2Not really, Muhammed was a barbarian warlord who coveted and enslaved his enemy's wives and looted the treasures of various city states. Also wasn't too kind to the Jews and you wonder why many Muslims dislike Jews to this day, same as how Martin Luther was hostile to them and generations of Germans after him embraced the same ideas.
Jesus...well most likely he never existed or only had a small cult following so who knows what he was "really" like,- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1to claim that he never existed is awfully ignorant. the debate is not about whether he existed; it's about whether he was who the Bible says he was.
and I'm not sure that a couple billion people really qualifies as "a small cult following." just a thought...- Rickler, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Does he have a birth date? A death date? If not, he couldn't have existed except metaphorically. How could so much about someones life be written down but his birth and death dates unknown.
- worldchanger, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1there are a LOT of people throughout history who I'm sure you would agree existed, but whose birthdates and death dates are unknown. heck, there are a lot of older folks alive TODAY who people don't know the birthdates of.
the fact of the matter is that He was born into obscurity to Jewish peasants. they didn't typically keep track of [aka record] birth dates outside of a family knowledge of the date the kid was born. and as for His "death date," He was killed the Friday after passover, somewhere around 30-35 AD.
the evidence of His historic existence is rather insurmountable; as for who He claimed He was, well... that's up for interpretation and debate. - jitterbits, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Actually, worldchanger, the evidence of Jesus' existence is not insurmoutnable at all. There isn't any mention of him in any historian's account of the day.
- worldchanger, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1there are a LOT of people throughout history who I'm sure you would agree existed, but whose birthdates and death dates are unknown. heck, there are a lot of older folks alive TODAY who people don't know the birthdates of.
- Rickler, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Does he have a birth date? A death date? If not, he couldn't have existed except metaphorically. How could so much about someones life be written down but his birth and death dates unknown.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1to claim that he never existed is awfully ignorant. the debate is not about whether he existed; it's about whether he was who the Bible says he was.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Jesus would probably be on Muhammad's top eight.
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -25/+5before muhammad beheads jesus for not accepting islam
- spamcrusher, on 05/01/2008, -23/+6My profit's penis is bigger than your profit's penis!
- 8randon, on 05/01/2008, -2/+4prophet
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -1/+7What's the difference?
- Tanhauser08, on 05/01/2008, -4/+2A P and an H.
- Arcan, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3Ooo, so close. Thanks for playing!
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -1/+7What's the difference?
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -2/+131. start a religion
2. ?????
3. prophet!
- 8randon, on 05/01/2008, -2/+4prophet
- bluvapor, on 05/01/2008, -5/+37I'm Iranian, and I believe in Jesus.
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -2/+19so do all Muslims...they just don't believe he is the greatest prophet
- idavidtang, on 05/01/2008, -1/+21or the Son of God.
- jordanmerle, on 05/01/2008, -1/+15he was "like a son" though. God taught him how to throw a football.
- estacado, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1When?
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3or God
- jordanmerle, on 05/01/2008, -1/+15he was "like a son" though. God taught him how to throw a football.
- ff4marvel, on 05/01/2008, -1/+15Iranian ! = Muslim
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -2/+4never made that claim. That can't even be inferred from my comment.
- jgtg32a, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1?
- zombies187, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2It could if your comment wasn't a nonsequitor, but it is...
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -2/+4never made that claim. That can't even be inferred from my comment.
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5many muslims regard him as the greatest prophet. he was the only one granted with the power to perform miracles of his own instead of just acting as a vessel for god. he is also believed to have been taken by god up to heaven and will return on the day of judgment. muslims simply believe muhammad was the last prophet.
- an0nym0us, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Finally, a reasonable remarks.
- pearlygate, on 05/01/2008, -4/+1Apparently in the bible, Satan believe in Jesus too.
your point? - innocentsinner, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3He's, like, totally in the top five though.
- spearce, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Jesus: Great Prophet or Greatest Prophet?
- idavidtang, on 05/01/2008, -1/+21or the Son of God.
- Hiki, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3uhm, ok...
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -4/+7really, cause i believe he is a fictional character based on the archetypal hero who is virgin born
- lacronicus, on 05/01/2008, -4/+2Whether or not you believe the mythical aspect behind him, Jesus as a person did in fact exist 2000 years ago. Son of god or not, there are numerous transcripts mentioning his existence during that time period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
- ogore, on 05/01/2008, -2/+9The muslim view of jesus is probably more historically correct than Christianity
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1the muslim view is the same as that written in the christian gnostic apocryphal texts which were rejected at the council of nicea when the bible was being put together. islam is a cheap hack job that plagiurized the bible, torah, etc... also jesus was made up to begin with.
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2all written after his purported death and not mentioned in josephus' writings
- ogore, on 05/01/2008, -2/+9The muslim view of jesus is probably more historically correct than Christianity
- lacronicus, on 05/01/2008, -4/+2Whether or not you believe the mythical aspect behind him, Jesus as a person did in fact exist 2000 years ago. Son of god or not, there are numerous transcripts mentioning his existence during that time period. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
- dave11980, on 05/01/2008, -6/+3That's ok, he still believed in you while he was up on that cross.
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -3/+6no actually paul made him up
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Ding ding ding. As someone once said to me, "Christianity would be more properly called Paulianity, when you take a look at the differences in their teachings, it becomes obvious that the doctrines followed by the Church follow that of Paul."
- Charlotte_Web, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3There was no Christian church when Jesus was alive.
- TechMike, on 05/01/2008, -1/+0Actually, Christianity is most properly called "Judaism the way G-d intentended" since Jesus was born, lived, died and rose again in accordance with the Scriptures. Paul evangelized usnig Jewish Scriptures. It was Constantine and the early church councils (such as Nicean) that separated Judaism from Christianity.
- ostracize, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1Jesus' disciples gave Paul the "thumbs up" so don't start thinking this was against Jesus' intent.
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Ding ding ding. As someone once said to me, "Christianity would be more properly called Paulianity, when you take a look at the differences in their teachings, it becomes obvious that the doctrines followed by the Church follow that of Paul."
- idavidtang, on 05/01/2008, -6/+2"Jesus said, 'Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.'"
Luke 23:34- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4"A lie keeps growing and growing
until it's as plain as the nose on your face."
Blue Fairy, from the movie Pinocchio
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4"A lie keeps growing and growing
- Hawfields46, on 08/18/2008, -0/+0i believe you need to check out the requirements of the messiah. Coz if that person does not meet all the requirements then he certainly is not the messiah.
outreachjudaism.org
jewsforjudaism.org
messiahtruth.org
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -3/+6no actually paul made him up
- blackjack75, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5Good news, Iranians are just like us. They can be wrong.
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Human is as Human does.
- tomasII, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Even satan believes in Jesus, what's your point?
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -2/+19so do all Muslims...they just don't believe he is the greatest prophet
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -5/+11Jesus looks like an ageing hippie in the thumbnail
- jordanmerle, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Wasn't he in his early 30s when he died? Why would he be sporting a white beard?
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2prophets don't die according to the Muslim faith...they go up to heaven body intact. It was merely an "image" of Jesus that was seen dying on the cross.
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3in islam, jesus is the only prophet who was carried body intact.
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2What about Enoch?
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3Wrong. Muslims believe that every soul shall taste death. And every prophet has died, except for Jesus who was raised up by God into the heavens to evade the plot of the Jews.
In the last days he will be sent back down to earth to restore order and justice, and eventually will die like every other human being.
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3in islam, jesus is the only prophet who was carried body intact.
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2prophets don't die according to the Muslim faith...they go up to heaven body intact. It was merely an "image" of Jesus that was seen dying on the cross.
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3he also acted like one.
- xonahuia, on 05/01/2008, -0/+6If Jesus were alive today, he would be a hippie
- Toffeeapple, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Thats no hippy, thats my dad.
- jordanmerle, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Wasn't he in his early 30s when he died? Why would he be sporting a white beard?
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -40/+45religion is myth. nothing supernatural exists.
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -19/+14Prove it. ;)
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -10/+26are you serious? you don't have to prove a negative. if there's no proof of something, the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to prove it's nonexistence.
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -9/+1who gave you life when you were just a lump of flesh in the womb of your mother?
- Fartbandit, on 05/01/2008, -3/+8His dads sperm... did you miss that one in sex ed?
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -6/+1No, that made a lump of cells, but who put life into that lump of cells after 120 days when it starts moving?
- Risingashes, on 05/01/2008, -2/+6This is your argument?
Please leave the defending of religion to the people who sound sane.
I imagine you with a huge grin on your face like you've just solved the most impossible riddle ever- but you just sound like that idiot who insists that every word of the bible is true because every word of the bible is written by God. - Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -5/+1nope, I'm a Muslim
- jezsik, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5Zecchetti, here's news flash for you: That lump of cells were alive already. The egg was alive, the sperm was alive, the combination of the two were alive, the further division of those cells into other cells were also alive. Life is everywhere.
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1No it wasn't fool. The sperm deposits its chromosomes in the egg and then DIES. The egg is nothing but a single cell as well consisting of just chromosomes. Yes it multiplies in size after that, but who puts a life in it. One that has a natural inclination to right and wrong, one that has feelings. Don't you ponder?
- jezsik, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2If the sperm dies after depositing its chromosomes, then it was alive before it died. Now, are you suggesting that the eggs produced by the female are dead? If so, then the sperm gave it life. If not, then you, sir, are the fool.
- Zecchetti, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Alive, but without a soul. Like plants are alive but have no feelings or intellect.
- jimmy17, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3There is no such thing as a soul.
- jezsik, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3But Zecchetti, chimps and dogs and parrots and dolphins have feelings and intellect. How come they don't fall on their knees (or the aquatic equivalent) and worship something?
- Zecchetti, on 05/05/2008, -1/+1They worship their Lord by doing what they were created to do. But they do NOT have the mental capacities given to man. Man was given authority over earth, unlike any other creation.
- jitterbits, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Well, bully for us. We sure are doing a great job with that authority, aren't we.
And ironically, it's often those who are most religious who have the least respect for the earth because this life and earth is so temporary to them.
- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -4/+3The onus is on both of you. It is hard to back up a faith-based claim with anything but personal testimony. So, 180 has a tough time there. But you, Karna, have made a blanket statement that nothing could ever exist outside of your own limited understanding of the universe. If you have based your statements on any ground whatsoever, then you both shouldn't be so hot to pass the burden of proof off to each other.
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2The tough time is being had by those who think I believe in *****.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -2/+1Karna101: for you to make an absolute claim, you must have absolute proof. just because your statement is claiming the nonexistance of something does not mean that you're free from the burden of having to prove your claim.
- jimmy17, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1Nope. If I were to believe in everything I couldn't prove then I would believe in a vast quantity of things that are mutually exclusive. (the ancient greeks and the christians cant both be right)
It is a FACT that most things that are possible to believe without evidence have to be wrong (many religions claim to have the truth at most only one will be right, if that) so my only recourse is to lack belief (note that this is different from actively stating that it is wrong it is just a lack of belief) in anything without proof otherwise Id be living in a very logically inconsistent way.
So to put it very basically. The burden of proof is in the person who believes something to prove why they believe as oppose to the person who lacks belief as by your logic we must believe in everything (Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism, Islam...) until we disprove it. - worldchanger, on 05/03/2008, -1/+1@jimmy17:
the very belief that "religion is a myth" or that "the supernatural doesn't exist" is just that; a BELIEF, not a lack of one. it's quite different if he says "I don't believe in it." but if he says "it doesn't exist," or "it's wrong," that in itself is a belief that must be backed up and proven. - jimmy17, on 05/03/2008, -1/+1But one can also dismiss religious claims and claims of supernatural experiences because as far as I know (because I don't know what everyone claims nor can I) they all contain internal contradictions or contradict what we do know about the universe based on what I have already heard.
- worldchanger, on 05/05/2008, -0/+1As you said, you don't and can't know what everyone claims. Beyond that, even if there ARE internal inconcistencies [perceived or otherwise] in the various religions, that does not necessarily preclude the existence of the supernatural in any way. You're making claims that you cannot prove and you're stating them as if they're fact, which is just as bad as someone doing that with a religion. It's fine to believe it; but because you cannot prove it, you cannot state it as absolute fact. To do so would be extremely intellectually irresponsible.
- jimmy17, on 05/02/2008, -1/+1Nope. If I were to believe in everything I couldn't prove then I would believe in a vast quantity of things that are mutually exclusive. (the ancient greeks and the christians cant both be right)
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Yes, that was sort of my point. But no worries.
- Laughsatyou, on 05/01/2008, -0/+13prove that dragons don't exist.
- mrstretchie, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Hence the ;)
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Thank you.
- jordanmerle, on 05/01/2008, -2/+7The ideas behind religion may be a myth, but religion does indeed exist on this planet last time I checked.
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -10/+26are you serious? you don't have to prove a negative. if there's no proof of something, the onus is on you to prove it, not for me to prove it's nonexistence.
- dosapede, on 05/01/2008, -5/+22Obviously nothing supernatural exists. If we find that something does exist, it must be, by definition, natural in some sense.
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -3/+6Exactly. "supernatural" is just the term we apply to nature yet not understood.
- michaelje0, on 05/01/2008, -3/+4Well, honestly, how do we define supernatural? There are phenomena that are scientifically proven now, but in the past had no explanation. Science continues to progress, but still has a long way to go. Saying that "nothing supernatural exists" is a broad and very 'blurry' statement.
- blackjack75, on 05/01/2008, -0/+9Supernatural is like magic. What we call "real magic" is the one that actually doesn't exist. The one that exists... we call it "tricks".
- researcher1941, on 05/01/2008, -6/+4the fascinating thing about human behavior is that the religious fundamentalists and the ultra skeptics share much in common.
they believe they have a knowing beyond knowing which is so rare most spend their entire lives and never meet one of these people.
nothing supernatural exists that reminds me of the director of the patent office in 1899 went before congress and stated that the patent office should be shut down because everything that can be invented has been invented.
this is called positive ignorance and it is based in arrogance and a deep fear of not knowing. quite the opposite of a knowing beyond knowing.- Fartbandit, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2He does have a point. Whilst being a sceptic and atheist myself i recognise that stupid sceptics and atheists do exist sadly. :P However we do fall back to the burden of proof here in that the onus to provide evidence falls onto the person making the claim for the existence of the supernatural. I would be willing to accept that the supernatural exists if the claim of its existence is backed up by some damn good evidence in its favour. So far I've yet to see any.
(note to our American cousins... Us brits spell sceptic with a c)
:)- Fartbandit, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1You spelt sceptical wrong but at least you tried to spell it with a c. :)
- Risingashes, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3Your point is that athiests who follow the true definition of atheism 'to believe that there is no God' are as illogical as those who believe that there is one.
Whereas the only defensible position would be that it is impossible for anyone alive today to have any idea about who, what, how or if the universe began. And while it is highly extremely impossibly unlikely for one of the random stabs in the dark that represent our religions to be true- they are still technically possible.- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1winner.
- Fartbandit, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0The definition of the word atheist means non belief not a belief in non existence. You will find most atheists like myself are open to the idea of a creators existence but are just heavily sceptical to a degree.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1then you're an agnostic, not an atheist.
- Fartbandit, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2He does have a point. Whilst being a sceptic and atheist myself i recognise that stupid sceptics and atheists do exist sadly. :P However we do fall back to the burden of proof here in that the onus to provide evidence falls onto the person making the claim for the existence of the supernatural. I would be willing to accept that the supernatural exists if the claim of its existence is backed up by some damn good evidence in its favour. So far I've yet to see any.
- markgl, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3i can't see gravity either but it works everyday, otherwise all the change in my pocket would float off!
- jsaic, on 05/01/2008, -4/+2this is really a replyto 180andback: god does not exist. at least not in the form that any religion on earth has ever posited. there may very well be a powerful creator responsible for life but i doubt any man nor woman will ever know its origin. i believe in the big bang singularity based on the mathematics and the science we have available to us now, however that may change in the future as we learn more and more new mathematics. change is the reason that we have so many new religions today and it is also the reason that the gods of man do not exist. how many people on here are gnostics, or believe in zeus or mithras or shalem or bal or el or stoicism or the jim jones cult david karesh or Ra or the aten or dagon or odin or how many mayans do we have on here or isinami isanagi this is all *****. religion only serves to empower its creators. and the fact that so many religions have come and gone should serve as proof that the new ones are also fake. we didn't just have centuries of ***** mystery cults and now we finally got it right. the ancients prayed to their gods which resulted in nothing except for more making of gods monotheistic or polytheistic it really doesn't matter. what is silly is the fact that people say well now we got it right with the ones that are popular now. these are the real ones. the ancients thought the same thing. im sure a follower of zeus never thought that their faith would go away but that's what happens. also, why would a god choose to only show wondrous supernatural things to a bunch of ignorant ancients and all of a sudden stop. it's because it didn't happen. it would make no sense for a god to intervene in the affairs of humanity and then stop for no reason. religion is a system which is created by men to try to control other men and women. it's almost how alpha primates control a group of females and in some cases other males. human alpha males feel the same need to control. for most of human history they used religion to do this. if we could go back in time it was probably the strongest human male that controlled a group of females and possibly a few other males( most likely his sons). as we became more sophisticated and more group oriented we developed more complex societies where we began to worship nature and the animals probably offering certain sacrifices in return for safety. eventually we probably began to understand that it would just be easier to kill the animal gods as opposed to trying to appease them. however, that probably created a new reverence for them because they provided our way of life ( much like the worship of cows in india). the in any event, the fact that every human society on earth has their own god is the final proof that god is fake because why would one god only reveal itself to one group of people? some would probably say that it's because god chose a favorite group of people, but every human society with their own unique god believes that they are the chosen favorite of god so someone has to be wrong or they are also all wrong. people keep forgetting that possibility. maybe that's the answer: no one fcking knows and everyone is wrong. and at least science and mathematics tries to prove through logic and investigation that what they believe is true. religion does not try to prove anything they just demand acceptance because it can't be proved false. we can't continue to live like that. because if by that logic anything is possible without proof or evidence then their faith has as much foundation as the zeus worshipers and something else just came along. mankind can never disprove any belief that cannot first be proved to exist. i can disprove that an apple is a human *****, but i cannot disprove that an invisible unicorn made drew carrey. this idiotic myth making will continue to the destruction of the human species as long as there are men on earth that want to get laid and tell everyone else how they should do it.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1[a] for you to make an absolute statement is for you to claim you have absolute proof.
[b] paragraphs were invented for a reason. try using them.
[c] I'm not going to read past the third line of babbling. goodbye.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1[a] for you to make an absolute statement is for you to claim you have absolute proof.
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -19/+14Prove it. ;)
- Vet4Peace, on 05/01/2008, -2/+28Well, this is sure to encourage an eloquent and well-reasoned dialogue between faiths...
- rodrigo74, on 05/01/2008, -6/+8Now, don't try to make a similar movie about Mohammed, or else the "Religion Of Peace" will come right after you!
- idavidtang, on 05/01/2008, -4/+4with peaceful men running towards you with open arms eloquently proclaiming jihad.
- michaelje0, on 05/01/2008, -1/+5Looks like the eloquent and well-reasoned dialog has already started on this page.
- sooperspook, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0If only that were true. One can always hope. And pray.
- rodrigo74, on 05/01/2008, -6/+8Now, don't try to make a similar movie about Mohammed, or else the "Religion Of Peace" will come right after you!
- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -28/+3Wow, Islam and all its followers need to be destroyed. This is ridiculous
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -2/+19Yeah, what kind of an ***** would make a movie based on his religion? Other than Mel Gibson?
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -7/+2except Mel Gibson is God's prophet, this director is not. It's in the Bible (which God wrote), so it's true.
- Waiting2awake, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4Please tell me you dropped a /sarc tag?
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -7/+2except Mel Gibson is God's prophet, this director is not. It's in the Bible (which God wrote), so it's true.
- notoneofus, on 05/01/2008, -0/+14No, your comment is ridiculous.
- Arcan, on 05/01/2008, -2/+4Yeah! That's telling him!
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2thank you for your input rod parsley.
- 180andback, on 05/01/2008, -2/+19Yeah, what kind of an ***** would make a movie based on his religion? Other than Mel Gibson?
- omnikitty, on 05/01/2008, -9/+41I think this film is a fantastic idea. Here is an opportunity for Christians to make ties with Muslims and vice versa. We do not agree on Christ's divinity but we do agree on His being an important factor in the Lord's plan. (Savior vs Prophet). We may not agree 100% but learning from each other allows us to further understand one another and base our connections on that, not our prejudices or stereotypes. As for sensitivity... I wonder what they'd say about Americans and THEIR sensitivity.
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -12/+6I know, the inter-faith dialogue will heal old wounds and show Muslims that Jesus is indeed their lord and savior.
Now, you're wondering if my first sentence was sarcasm...you'll never know- digitalhair, on 05/01/2008, -0/+6nah, pretty sure you're being sarcastic and inflammatory. I've seen you do it in the comments of many other threads, on some occasions causing a short break in rational dialogue, but always cheap and narrow-minded as you appeal to the chimps and trolls out there with similar intent.
- funk49, on 05/01/2008, -4/+4I agree,,,the first way to fully understand the Muslim faith would be for a Christian director to make a movie about the life of Mohammed. Talk about improving relations between the Muslim world and the West....
- ZenMojo, on 05/01/2008, -1/+6You're already bitching and moaning and you haven't seen it yet.
- dave11980, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2No, he is implying that Muslims wouldn't accept a movie about mohammed from us, and recent history seems to support that conclusion. Why do you want to hold a double standard. Shouldn't we be able to go burn buildings down in riots and have them slapped on the wrist for not being "sensitive"?
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -1/+8that doesn't make much sense. muhammad doesn't have a role in christiantiy, jesus has a role in islam. that would be like jews making a movie about jesus.
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3This looks like fun:
Jesus Was Son of a Roman Rapist
According to The Hollywood Reporter, film director Paul Verhoeven is soon to release a book that is claimed to be a new "biography" of Jesus Christ. In this new publication, Verhoeven feels that he successfully proves that Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, was raped by a Roman soldier during the Jewish uprising in Galilee and the boy Jesus was the result of that attack. No virgin birth for Christ, but instead a rape.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/20 ...
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3This looks like fun:
- ZenMojo, on 05/01/2008, -1/+6You're already bitching and moaning and you haven't seen it yet.
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -3/+1Has anyone heard of Sheikh Ahmed Deedat? He gave an awesome lecture titled MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE, which he did in response to Jimmy Swaggart. It's a classic
watch it here (subsequent parts are listed): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhazm0UdlTc
It includes the prophecies that Jesus made of the "comforter"- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste
- jmpeagle, on 05/01/2008, -12/+6I know, the inter-faith dialogue will heal old wounds and show Muslims that Jesus is indeed their lord and savior.
- TommyTivo, on 05/01/2008, -16/+3BLASPHEMY!!!
- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -20/+4p.s. The only prophets that Jesus prophesied about were false prophets....and he was right on about Muhammad....
- blackjack75, on 05/01/2008, -0/+9Damn, how lucky you are. There is just one truth. And it just HAPPENS to be the one you were born in.
You probably ate lucky charms as a kid.- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Hey, God is on our side right!
- pintomp3, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3you could make the same argument about that moses prophesied jesus as a false prophet.
- blackjack75, on 05/01/2008, -0/+9Damn, how lucky you are. There is just one truth. And it just HAPPENS to be the one you were born in.
- MrShlee, on 05/01/2008, -25/+24Religion has become irrelevant and it simply still around because it makes alot of people too much money to easily.
Hopefully we will see atheism becoming the common choice for educated people of earth.- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -18/+4Ya its become irrelevant....your an idiot. Read a book.
P.S. start by not reading Dawkins...he is a fool.- MrShlee, on 05/01/2008, -1/+9I have a whole bookshelf. Currently reading "Love All The People"
I recommend it.
- MrShlee, on 05/01/2008, -1/+9I have a whole bookshelf. Currently reading "Love All The People"
- researcher1941, on 05/01/2008, -9/+4atheism will lead us down the same road as fundamentalism. it is the ism part that is scary.
atheism is as much a religion as Christianity without the collection plate.
i don't trust atheists anymore than i trust Christians. it is about human behavior not beliefs.
atheism is as much a system of beliefs as religious beliefs. atheists say they want to do good without the religious part. not one of them understand where that desire to do good is located.
consciousness is primary matter is secondary.- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5Atheism literally means 'without god' so it isn't really a religion it's a rejection of religions.
That said, I do agree it's all about human nature.
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5Atheism literally means 'without god' so it isn't really a religion it's a rejection of religions.
- datastorageguy, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1People are free to believe what they want, at least in the U.S. You are free to call me an idiot because I believe, "in a magic man in the sky", as God is often referred to by smug and arrogant Atheists. In turn, I am also free to tell you what I believe and wish you peace whether you believe what I say or not.
- solid12345, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2You sir are wrong, religion is not irrelevant, it is becoming even stronger in the middle east while it is dying in the west. If anything there stands to be MORE conflict between an athiest/hedonist west and Islam than a Christian west and Islamic middle east.
This is why I can't stand the crap about people blaming our foreign policy on why we have these conflicts with Islam. No the fact is the differences of our civilizations are becoming wider and this is leading to tension. During the Crusades, average peasants worried more about infidel armies invading and conquering them, but now they are worried about foreign culture and pop culture invading which tends to rile them up even more. Most Muslim parents get frightened at the idea their daughter may start dressing in a miniskirt and consuming alcohol while listening to western pop music. - GhostyBoy, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Logically speaking, I think that agnosticism might be better...
- ComradeGoby, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Not buying it.
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1logically speaking, you're right.
I'm a theist myself, but when it comes down to it, you can't prove or disprove it either way.
the only logical stance is to say "I can't know for certain."
- ComradeGoby, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Not buying it.
- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -18/+4Ya its become irrelevant....your an idiot. Read a book.
- Karna101, on 05/01/2008, -11/+55so how come muslims are okay with using an actor to play jesus, but filming a mohammad or drawing a cartoon is blasphemous
- slickstar, on 05/01/2008, -3/+6lol, i was trying to pick up the hypocracy .....but damn you did pretty well.
- ZenMojo, on 05/01/2008, -3/+14Drawing mohammed with a bomb in his turban is blasphemous. Although if you have no problem with Jesus Christ going down on a ten year old to mock Catholicism, then I'm sure dialogue will open up immediately.
- kevlarbaboon, on 05/01/2008, -3/+1I don't know. I don't think I'd really want to see Mohammad going down on a ten year old either...
- Stormwern, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Touché zen, best allegory I've heard on the subject.
- bebo666, on 05/01/2008, -9/+2I think it's ok for them because... ya know... they're not christian. They're muslims.
- sub1, on 05/01/2008, -1/+10How do you think that poor teddy bear Muhammad must feel in all this?!
- MASH007, on 05/01/2008, -4/+13Its because Muslims believe Muhammad should not be drawn or depicted because it could lead to people idolizing him. (Just like some people idolize pictures or sculptures of Jesus.)
Muslims would also do the same for Jesus, except he's already depicted everywhere!- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -2/+4spot on
- kingmanic, on 05/01/2008, -3/+8That edict failed fairly spectacularly. I'd call naming 20% of Muslim boys Muhammad and encouraging people to kill someone due to depictions of Muhammad has basically taken idolization to the furthest it could ever have gone.
- o0joshua0o, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2If the point is to prevent idolization of Muhammad, then depicting him in a denigrating fashion should be OK.
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -3/+7Well, Islam has a stricture against depicting Mohammed, Christianity doesn't have a similar one about depicting Jesus.
So your point is? - hijabman, on 05/01/2008, -2/+7I'm a muslim, and I am not happy about this (or any) depiction of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him).
- Zain123, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3Person people are, for the most part, Shi'a Muslims and they tend not to have as strict restrictions as the Sunni do on depicting the Prophets.
- Zain123, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Hmmm...must've been sleep while I wrote that comment. I meant Persian, not "Person." lol
- thelastknowngod, on 05/01/2008, -5/+2this seems like its going to be another film that main stream media is going to create a controversy over. the old fox news "some people say..." is going to be all over the place whether anyone really cares or not.
i heard about this film a few months ago. its was being shown at the philadelphia film festival but i did not have the chance to go see it. hopefully netflix can get it soon. - bokep, on 05/01/2008, -0/+11This is their version of the story, no need to get riled up or anything... I don't think many diggers are devout Christians who live by the bible anyways ;).
- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -8/+5There is plenty of them, just digg is overwhelmed with atheist.
- ftldelay, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1How right you are... I'm a devout Christian who takes the Bible seriously....
- worldchanger, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1there are indeed plenty of them.
but I wouldn't say that digg is overwhelmed with atheists.
I'd say it's overwhelmed with people who spout their opinions as fact, instead of realizing that they can't possibly know it all; Christians and atheists alike.
- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -8/+5There is plenty of them, just digg is overwhelmed with atheist.
- Brutalbrujah, on 05/01/2008, -14/+1Aaaaaawgh! My nipples! They hurt! They hurt when i twist them!
- swizz, on 05/01/2008, -12/+4I call for jihad against the infidels!
- grayapple, on 05/01/2008, -8/+8I'm not religious or anything, but how come they have the right to dismiss another faith, while if the same is done to them..
(When I say 'they' I don't mean every person in the religion, only a small group of members)- Drogoganor, on 05/01/2008, -4/+4because they're flaming hypocrites
- jordanmerle, on 05/01/2008, -3/+3Muhammad actually has the power of flame and is a Superfriend along with Jesus, Buddha, Confucius, Adam Smith, and Seaman
- Drogoganor, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2thanks for the tip.
- jordanmerle, on 05/01/2008, -3/+3Muhammad actually has the power of flame and is a Superfriend along with Jesus, Buddha, Confucius, Adam Smith, and Seaman
- lukak, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4they're depicting their interpretation of events according to their scriptures. there's nothing dismissive about that at all.
- Drogoganor, on 05/01/2008, -4/+4because they're flaming hypocrites
- Borgcube636, on 05/01/2008, -4/+28This is NOT religious blasphemy or mockery. Islam believes that Jesus was a great prophet, and they think very highly of him. In fact, Jesus is mentioned many times in the Quran, and is part of Islams history.
- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -13/+3It IS religious blasphemy because Jesus was the son of God and they are making him less than that.
- Borgcube636, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2We are all the sons of God. In fact, I believe that all of us are One with God. Panentheism. Look it up.
- Borgcube636, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4You know, actually, in ancient Judea, it was common to call people Son of God. It was simply a term dignifying religiousness of a person. Check your history!
- Zecchetti, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ever say he was the son of God!!!
- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1When Christ is baptized, the Holy Ghost alights on him and the voice of God declares Jesus as His son. Also, Jesus makes a number of not-so-oblique references to his Father. Who do you think he was referring to? Joseph?
- Zecchetti, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1That is father as is the sense of "Protector". But Christians claim that Jesus is God's BEGOTTEN son. What are Christians implying here?!?!
- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1When Christ is baptized, the Holy Ghost alights on him and the voice of God declares Jesus as His son. Also, Jesus makes a number of not-so-oblique references to his Father. Who do you think he was referring to? Joseph?
- Maevirko69, on 05/01/2008, -10/+4I'll say it again, it IS blasphemy to Christians to claim Jesus wasn't divine. Blasphemy isn't defined as something that offends all faiths, it's something that offends God. And if you are a Christian, you believe this offends God.
- peroosal, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Great. So I will let God judge them not me. I am not God.
- o0joshua0o, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I'm not Christian, but I'd have to agree with Maevirko69 that this movie should be, in principle, offensive to Christians because it portrays Jesus as less than divine. Fortunately, Christians don't typically start rioting when you offend them.
- an0nym0us, on 05/01/2008, -3/+1Hmm, I wonder if God's wife is a MILF...
- matt1matt, on 05/01/2008, -13/+3It IS religious blasphemy because Jesus was the son of God and they are making him less than that.
- coffee200am, on 05/01/2008, -10/+4In a country that has no Gays, requires women by law to cover their heads, arrests kids for listening to "western" music and has a national "Death To America Day"....I'll skip this movie...
- ZenMojo, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2Screw that. There are less Iranian rappers in prison than American.
- ccarlson22, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3so coffee200am...watch faux news much?
- coffee200am, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRLLPvQ9vOM
- ccarlson22, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3so coffee200am...watch faux news much?
- ZenMojo, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2Screw that. There are less Iranian rappers in prison than American.
- irvin666, on 05/01/2008, -7/+19Thank gawd I don't take religion seriously.
- MASH007, on 05/01/2008, -4/+3When you die, we'll see who was right ;-)
- an0nym0us, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Better be safe than sorry, amirite?
- o0joshua0o, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Define being "safe". There are lots of religions, most claiming you will be punished if you follow any of the other ones. You're literally damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Besides, if there is a God, and He knows that you believe in Him just "to be safe", how impressed do you think He will be by this?
- o0joshua0o, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Define being "safe". There are lots of religions, most claiming you will be punished if you follow any of the other ones. You're literally damned if you do, damned if you don't.
- an0nym0us, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Better be safe than sorry, amirite?
- MASH007, on 05/01/2008, -4/+3When you die, we'll see who was right ;-)
- africantearoa, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4Terribly biased article bagging what seems like a lot of hard work.
- MrShlee, on 05/01/2008, -1/+9It is important to understand fundamentalism is bad and your anger is directed at them..
Christian or muslim- johnnyboy239, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Right on, it is not Muslims or Christians or Jews or anyone else who is the problem, it is fundamentalists.
- acidwire90, on 05/01/2008, -10/+5Awesome, bollywood's Passion of the Christ.
- vr121, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1bollywood is indian you fool
- ashfish, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1Good job furthering the idea that American's have no ***** clue what goes on outside of their borders. It might do you some good to watch a Bollywood movie.
- Indrid, on 05/01/2008, -7/+3The fact of the matter is that people will have different opinions and beliefs regarding specific subjects. Hell, Iran believing that Jesus was a hobbit and pissed fire wouldn't surprise me in the least but it is their opinion and they're free to have it.
- dropbox, on 05/01/2008, -7/+15"The message implies that Christianity, a faith of 2 billion people and the core of much Western philosophy, is based on a falsehood."
No *****, and so is every other religion...- researcher1941, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2the bible is full of wisdom but it is also full of ignorance but separating the difference is the great challenge.
- ComradeGoby, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1What wisdom? Things like don't kill people and be nice? The bible isn't needed for that.
- ComradeGoby, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1What wisdom? Things like don't kill people and be nice? The bible isn't needed for that.
- researcher1941, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2the bible is full of wisdom but it is also full of ignorance but separating the difference is the great challenge.
- StanleyKoolPrik, on 05/01/2008, -6/+5If this was about Muhammad rather than Jesus the whole cast and crew would be one big ***** grease spot.
- MASH007, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3Yah, because Muslims dont like Muhammad depicted, but Christians dont mind Jesus depicted.
- o0joshua0o, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2So it's not the least bit hypocritical...so long as no one involved in the production of the film is Muslim.
- MASH007, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3Yah, because Muslims dont like Muhammad depicted, but Christians dont mind Jesus depicted.
- blackjack75, on 05/01/2008, -4/+16I prefer the roman version of the story:
"Jewish leader seems to claim he has rights over our conquered territory. Nailed him. Delusional followers claim he came back from the dead. If this BS works for the peasants, then 300 years from now we will make theirs our official religion and spread it over our world."- Vich, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2lol
- taketheleap, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2dugg for "nailed him"
- wpyh, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Dugg. By far the best comment in this story.
- YamiJim, on 05/01/2008, -9/+3THAT'S IT!!!! BOMB THE MOTHER *****!!!!
- peroosal, on 05/01/2008, -1/+0We did, but they just seem to multiply. (For the record, I don't believe in bombing anyone.)
- bindermichi, on 05/01/2008, -2/+9The funny thing is: Jesus was a jew and more or less founded a new sect within the jewish society... mohammed regarded him as a prophet and the religion founded on his ideas incorporated many of the christian and jewish values... so in the end we're all jews in some way ^_^
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Judaic religions have brought so much joy to the world.
- kingmanic, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1The jews got some ideas from Zoroaster, so we're all Zoroastrians too?
- Stormwern, on 05/01/2008, -5/+1You're confusing the jewish religion with the jewish ethnicity, Jesus was never anything but christian.
- zazzalicious, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5ummm... the term 'Christian' wasn't even used until 100 AD.
- TechMike, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Born to a Jewish teenager Defined lineage back to Abraham, Noah and Adam (all the begats) Circumcised on the 8th day Regular family visits to the Temple Called Rabbi by Jewish leaders
All that, and not a Jew?- Cerebron, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0You don't understand the difference between religion and ethnicity?
- 3leggedHorse, on 05/01/2008, -11/+5 Who gives a ***** about Jesus we crucified him.
- Narishma, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I did not.
- peroosal, on 05/01/2008, -3/+2Not wasting my time judging someone else's beliefs because if you believe in God, ultimately He decides if your wrong or right, not someone else. Although it is sad when so many people judge, as if they were God themselves.
- pigfister, on 05/01/2008, -9/+4and the anti Iran rhetoric continues to give the USA reason to murder more innocent ppl to steal OIL.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/05/397938.html
Iran Dumps US Dollar, US Preps For War
In other words, the corporate media that collaborated with Bush/PNAC to LIE the American people, and the people of the world, into two illegal wars, are set to do it again ...
"Hostile" Iran Sparks U.S. Attack Plan
Pentagon Wary Of Tehran's Expanding Nuclear Program And Support Of Iraqi Insurgents
WASHINGTON, April 29, 2008
U.S. Develops Iran Attack Plan
Concerned over Iran's disputed nuclear weapons program (or fully intending to wage an illegal, unprovoked war on Iran), the Pentagon has ordered military commanders to develop to options for attacking Iran.
David Martin reports. | Share/Embed/In-Bed/Treason
(CBS) A second American aircraft carrier steamed into the Persian Gulf on Tuesday as the Pentagon ordered military commanders to develop new options for attacking Iran. CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports that the planning is being driven by what one officer called the "increasingly hostile role" Iran is playing in Iraq - smuggling weapons into Iraq for use against American troops.
(In other words, all the other LIES the American and Israeli Extremists have told were soundly refuted, but they don't really care, they want their war.)
"What the Iranians are doing is killing American servicemen and -women inside Iraq," said Secretary of Defense Robert Gates.
(Really? Let's see that evidence ... Hey, didn't they broker a truce which effectively saved the US-installed Puppet Regime?)
U.S. officials are also concerned by Iranian harassment of U.S. ships in the Persian Gulf (One incident, the US was caught LYING about, and I doubt this one is any different ...No doubt Iran is 'concerned' about the massive military buildup off its coast!) ) as well as Iran's still growing nuclear program (Which is for power generation, and exists within the guidelines of the NPT - which the US remains in violation of, and Israel refuses to sign.).
New pictures of Iran's uranium enrichment plant show the country's defense minister in the background, as if deliberately mocking a recent finding by U.S. intelligence that Iran had ceased work on a nuclear weapon. (Remember, even that 'revelation' came from a single, dubious source, reminiscent of the criminal Ahmad Chalabi.)
No attacks are imminent and the last thing the Pentagon wants is another war (Riiiiight ...They said this right before illegally attacking Iraq.), but Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen has warned Iran not to assume the U.S. military can't strike.
(Using PNAC's own perverted policy of 'pre-emption', wouldn't Iran, knowing of the Israeli-American plot to attack it, be within its rights in attacking either country? But of course, Iran doesn't want a war. Israel and the Fringe in DC does.)
"I have reserve capability, in particular our Navy and our Air Force so it would be a mistake to think that we are out of combat capability," Mullen said.
Targets would include everything from the plants where weapons are made to the headquarters of the organization known as the Quds Force which (allegedly, with no evidence to support it) directs operations in Iraq. (Iraq was illegally invaded, and remains under an illegal Occupation. Aiding its Resistance Movement is within the law.)
Later this week Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is expected to confront the Iranians with evidence of their meddling and demand a halt.
If that doesn't produce results, the State Department has begun drafting an ultimatum that would tell the Iranians to knock it off - or else.- ibzz, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2george ***** bush will start a war with iran before the next election.i bet my balls on this one.
- hstege, on 05/01/2008, -1/+2Nothing wrong with having attack plans -- the US has oodles of them stashed away. I'd rather be prepared (for a change). But still, hope to god calmer heads prevail so the plans won't be needed.
- DickyOwens, on 05/01/2008, -1/+4People have to understand they don't own Jesus and that he's a figure in other religions.
Also Jesus should carry an axe, how bad-ass would that be?- rsklnkv, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3Bad-ass! Especially if it was a first person shooter and the Jesus toon ran through towns in Iraq/n and chopped people up for freedom, cause Jesus would TOTALLY FIGHT against the jihad folk and/or terrorists, most likely wielding an axe and maybe a sidearm or a shuriken that comes back to him like a disc from Tron...
- hstege, on 05/01/2008, -0/+4or maybe a crowbar?
- solid12345, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Jesus Bellic.
- GhostyBoy, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1I agree with both of those statements absolutely.
- wpyh, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1No, he wouldn't carry an axe. He would just will it and an axe will appear out of nowhere.
- ccarlson22, on 05/01/2008, -2/+2the passion of the christ kinda bashed on jews...so if a bunch of christians get pissed about this video...they had it coming to them.
- theskyisblue, on 05/01/2008, -2/+4who cares? seriously....
- Neorio, on 05/01/2008, -0/+5Looks like the LA Times wants to whip up anti-Iranian resentment.
I wonder why.....
Could be worse though - you could get the movie "The Jesus Story" and edit and re-dub it to death so that it more accurately represents the version of Jesus and his teachings as per the Quran... and show it on free-to-air TV. I mention this because this has already been done in Indonesia, I might add. I was there, I saw it!- hstege, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1latimes != daily mail, etc.
the article wasn't very jingoistic, no "shocking!!!!" headlines, trashy photos.
and how was the Indonesian version, just curious?
- hstege, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1latimes != daily mail, etc.
- strummy, on 05/01/2008, -3/+11i'm still waiting to see The Passion Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster
- jerrasis, on 05/02/2008, -0/+0Power to the pastafarians.
- ibzz, on 05/01/2008, -6/+12 billion christians are goin to hell!! yeeeehaaaww
- hijabman, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1As a Muslim who has tried to read the Qur'an with a clean conscious, I don't believe that all Christians will go to hell. Nor do I believe all Muslims will go to heaven. What I do believe, however, is that God is the ultimate judge, and S/He will be Just. That ultimately, if you believe, do good, and are aware that you will be judged, you will be just fine, God willing.
2: 62 VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians* -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. - Muhammad Asad translation of the Qur'an
- hijabman, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1As a Muslim who has tried to read the Qur'an with a clean conscious, I don't believe that all Christians will go to hell. Nor do I believe all Muslims will go to heaven. What I do believe, however, is that God is the ultimate judge, and S/He will be Just. That ultimately, if you believe, do good, and are aware that you will be judged, you will be just fine, God willing.
- researcher1941, on 05/01/2008, -4/+1make war not love it is the American way. besides it is good for corp profits and the American people scare easy. even glen beck is putting the scare on now as we should all be afraid of rev wright when he controls obama in the white house.
let the Mormons run the country like glen beck and we all can have many wives. move to Colorado city in AZ and you can have up to 40 wives. and here is the neat part the state of AZ supports all those kids you have. neat gig.
why does AZ allow this? huge Mormon population in AZ that vote. don't dare touch these folks. last gov that tried was voted out of office next election.- Icupnimpn2, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not sympathetic at all of the FLDS, living ion compounds and abusing children. All of the FLDS would be ineligible to attend the original LDS Church - they would be excommunicated for what they have done, which is disobey the word of God and his Prophet. So please don't mix up your Mormons in your ignorance.
- insanebrain, on 05/01/2008, -3/+3religion . .IT'S A TRAP!
- HotDogBun, on 05/01/2008, -6/+6jews, muslims, christians... all their views and stories of jesus christ are nothing more than myths. It's like people getting angry because someone changes the backstory to ***** batman in their movie. Morons.
- GhostyBoy, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1It is not moronic to be pissed off when someone changes the Batman backstory....especially if they use it to make Batman & Robin....ugh.
- dvavasour, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3I think this film could help relations between Christians and Muslims very much. Consider:
a) I am a Muslim. I am outraged at satirical depictions of the prophet Muhammed. I consider the outrage which will be felt by Christians at the depiction of the second person of the Trinity being depicted as a mere mortal. I gain some understanding of how the simple depiction of my faith can be considered a blasphemy by someone of another faith
b) I am a Christian. I have watched "The Passion of The Christ", understanding that Jesus is God made man, dying for our sins and giving us new life in His resurrection. Now I watch "Jesus, the Spirit of God" and am outraged by the blasphemous depiction of Jesus as being man alone. And I consider how Muslims might find our dogmatic insistence that Jesus is God made man to be blasphemous.- kingmanic, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3c) I am an agnostic leaning towards "not supported by the evidence available" and I'm hoping it results in a long protracted non nuclear war so we can all realize afterwards at how dumb the whole affair was and start moving away from allowing theocracies to exist.
- Rendonsmug, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1c) I don't watch this movie, because it was shoddily made and won't be showing anywhere near.
- Hawfields46, on 08/18/2008, -0/+0I don't know which bible you read. but my bible states that
G-d is not a man. What's so hard to understand. Not a man. Nope not a man.
Jesus was 100% man. He made stinky in his breeches just like everybody else.
- Exhibitionist, on 05/01/2008, -3/+4Full title: An Iranian's vision of Jesus' life stirs debate among imbeciles and the mentally handicapped.
- Vich, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1more like "Jesus' life stirs debate" amirite?
- stonedgeek, on 05/01/2008, -2/+11"I pray for Christians. They've been misled. They will realize one day the true story,"
Sounds like what ignorant christians say about muslims when they're trying to sound tolerant. - Jan33, on 05/01/2008, -0/+9Willie Nelson works for Iran now?
- Vich, on 05/01/2008, -4/+5What would an Iranian know about Jesus? Jesus was caucasian judging from pictures I've seen, and probably american given that's where the majority of Christians are.
- roboticrickshaw, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2lol
- kingmanic, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1You may want to recheck your figures because there is a higher density of Christians in Europe. Maybe you mean fundamentalists Christians?
- coldwayz, on 05/01/2008, -2/+3He was actually black, or at least very dark skinned. Ever read Malcolm X's biography? He puts forward a very solid case for it.
- kingmanic, on 05/01/2008, -0/+3He would have been semitic like the Arabs there now. He would not have been black.
- TechMike, on 05/01/2008, -1/+1You got photos? Cool! Let's see!
- solid12345, on 05/01/2008, -1/+3Well technically Iranians are Caucasians too.
- wpyh, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2To people digging down Vich's comment: don't you recognize fine sarcasm? I'm digging it up.
- Ebulating, on 05/01/2008, -1/+8Honeslty, Islam feels like Mohamed just stole wholesale from the surrounding Judeo-Christian myths and then used it as justification for Conquest.
Traditional Nomadic belief systems do not adapt well to non-nomadic life.- TechMike, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Methinks you're beginning to understand
- solid12345, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2Islam is just a political tool for Arab imperialism in the 7th century, people need to take religions in context. It is amazing how these archaic institutions and ideology survive, it is much like how slavs in Russia are adopting former German nationalism in the recent rise of neo-nazis in the post USSR Russia, it is illogical for them to follow that belief set yet they do.
- texas85, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2This is more like Iranian version of Jesus rather than Quranic version of Jesus. There are many interpretations and according to some Jesus was indeed crucified but he survived it and lived rest of his life in India (Kashmir).
A very good documentary by BBC no this subject : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669658378 ...- texas85, on 05/01/2008, -0/+2correct link for video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669658378 ...
- ramiro, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1Thanks for the informative post!
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