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A New Hope: The Future of Star Wars

thedeadbolt.com — Since the Star Wars universe is alive and well in today ’s entertainment landscape with future animated films/series and live-action shows, what will the Star Wars universe look like in another couple of decades and beyond? Can a live-action TV series still create that same magic as the original trilogy and prequels?

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  • pentupentropy, on 05/13/2008, -12/+101the force will grow weak with overcommercialized garbage. just a prediction
    • doctechnical, on 05/13/2008, -1/+28Replace "will grow" with "has grown" and I think you've got something there.
      • LowFuel, on 05/13/2008, -2/+2We're talking about the future here, you might want to look into it.
        • mixxo, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Actually, it already "has grown" weak with it. Which was the point.... Get R.I.F. - you might want to look into it.
    • legoalert33, on 05/13/2008, -0/+9Lego Star Wars: New Jedi on the Block
    • antiorblkflag9, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3I'm so scared of this show
    • hauntedchippy, on 05/13/2008, -2/+7Someone wake me up when Lucas is dead.
    • topherbook, on 05/13/2008, -0/+7Predictions are supposed to be made about the *future*, not the present.
      • HiddenCanuck, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5Difficult to say. Always in motion, is the future.
    • HiddenCanuck, on 05/13/2008, -0/+6into the garbage chute, flyboy!
      • antiorblkflag9, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3Aren't you a little short to be a storm trooper?
    • solid12345, on 05/13/2008, -0/+9Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made. Spaceballs the T-shirt. Spaceballs the lunchbox. Spaceballs the coloring book. Spaceballs... the flamethrower! Kids love it. And last but not least, Spaceballs the doll, me!

      "May the Schwartz be with you!"
    • mchugh22, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5I only recognize the original trilogy. Han shot first.
      • antiorblkflag9, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Yes he did.
      • Raptor007, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Agreed. I refused to buy Star Wars on DVD until the REAL original trilogy was released. I'm a bit disappointed with the non-anamorphic transfers, but at least it has the right content.
        • antiorblkflag9, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1They added subtitles for Greedo too.
  • BFNews, on 05/13/2008, -8/+20I think making animated Star Wars films is a great idea, but they need to focus on stories using characters from the original trilogy. There are an endless number of stories they could do focusing on them. I'm sure they could get everyone but Harrison Ford to do the voices. The prequel characters just aren't that interesting.
    • macweirdo42, on 05/13/2008, -0/+7Wasn't that basically what the Prequel Trilogy was? I swear, the thing that bothered me the most was the fact that basically the only set throughout the whole Prequel Trilogy was a green screen. I mean, why even bother with live actors?
    • Gozchev, on 05/13/2008, -0/+7I hate looking like the nerd of the group, but I really had hoped a few years ago that the NJO series would be created for the screen because at 21 books long and just about the right age for all the actors, it would have been fantastic. It gets really dark and serious; a few main character die and overall, it's pretty epic.
      • 1807, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1sounds like just about every star wars book i've ever read..
  • Braingoo, on 05/13/2008, -9/+17If you are me we all watched the prequels just to get the 5 second glimpse of Luke and Leia being born. The rest was really just nothing more than filler.
    • Osuperman, on 05/13/2008, -3/+2Or one giant advert for ILM
    • wedges, on 05/13/2008, -3/+7i kind of liked the part where anakin's legs are cut off and he's burned alive, although i thought they should have ended the movie there and left vader out of it, so you could still have a jaw dropper in ESB
      • Ultomato, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5that would work... if lucas made the movies in order
        • Sophistifunk, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Or if Palpatine hadn't names Anakin as Darth Vader when he went to the dark side...
  • Continuum, on 05/13/2008, -1/+63Recipe for a great Star Wars Series: Make a television show in the Star Wars universe that is the same caliber as Firefly or Battlestar Galactica. Do not make it so it can be marketed for video games or children's toys but instead make it for the fans.
    • T8erT0T, on 05/13/2008, -0/+8Agreed. BG was a great series because it had a hard working cast and solid writing which had a perfect blend of scifi, drama, and action. If SW did that, it would be great. But I think deep down we all know this has PAYCHECK written all over it that will be marketed to a much younger audience.
    • Rizmaster, on 05/13/2008, -13/+2Agreed. Except less like Firefly and more like BSG. Firefly sucked donkey.
      • ceredron, on 05/13/2008, -1/+1firefly sucked... WHAT? Seriously, not only did you insult one of the greatest tv series of all time, but you didn't even have the balls to say "ass". If you're going to insult a great, you need some balls behind it or else we WILL just laugh at you.
    • cyberfelon, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4Except that Star Wars is more fantasy set in space than traditional serious sci-fi.
      • sanman, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3Exactly. How could one do Star Wars as hard sci fi? Would Chewbacca be smoking stogies, and beat his wife? Han would be an alcoholic drug-runner. Luke would have an Oedipus complex, wanting to kill his Dad and having feelings for his sister. Threepio would be flamboyantly homosexual, constantly being rejected by R2. Yoda would be suffering from cancer, and forced to consume hallucinogenic drugs. The Emperor would be terrifying the public with his Office of Imperial Homeland Security.

        I wouldn't want to see the BSG remake being blatantly imitated in a bandwagon effect.
        • wastelander, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1BSG is great but it I would hardly call it "hard sci-fi".. I mean its basically a 20th century aircraft carrier in space.
          There's no real attempt at a realistic depiction of space combat in the future.
      • shogun545, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3What Continuum means is that he wants to see a Star Wars series that has the same production values as BSG or Firefly, in terms of quality storylines, character development, and insight into the Star Wars universe. This doesn't necessarily warrant the same "presentation" as BSG or Firefly, just that we want an intelligent show. I for one agree, because I think creative storytelling will give the Star Wars franchise a chance to offer a refreshing perspective and this would encourage development of other related properties (games, more feature films, toys.)
        • Continuum, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Exactly what I meant.
          I mean, the one thing that Star Wars has going for it is one of the most developed universe out of any science fiction series (politics, tech, species, religious beliefs, and so on). I am constantly surprised at how bad the "official" star wars products are and how fantastic the fan based ones are.
      • Herolint, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2I'd like to think they could pull something like BG out of the Star Wars universe, but my fear is that it will be more like the Star Wars Christmas Special, which even as a 7 or 8 year old left me thinking, "wow, that was dumb!"
    • ZenMojo, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2***** Star Wars films make more money than brilliant episodes of Firefly and BSG. Furthermore, let's face it, the Star Wars Universe as it exists, under the auspices of a creatively bankrupt auteur like George Lucas, will provide more uninteresting ***** and less clever takes on the previous ideas. So let's just sit back, wish for "Troopers" and Tartakovsky's "Clone Wars" and know that it will never come.
    • sdcarter, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2I totally agree... it'll never happen... but I totally agree.
  • simpletwist, on 05/13/2008, -3/+75Keep Lucas out of the creative process. Please.
    • doctechnical, on 05/13/2008, -0/+22At the very least, keep him away from the dialog. He writes wonderful dialog for elevators. I want to know what part of the Jedi training beats the contractions out of you.
    • sdcarter, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2How ironic is it that he invested all this energy into creating one of the most loved stories, one of the richest universes... and the best thing he can do for it is let other people deal with it from now on because all he'll do is mess it up?
    • inefekt, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1If it weren't for Lucas there wouldnt be any Star Wars! Give the guy some respect.
      • Raptor007, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2"Ooo misa Jar-Jar Binx!"

        Sorry, no respect left.
  • shutaro, on 05/13/2008, -7/+66Four words: Star Wars the Musical.
  • Shogi, on 05/13/2008, -5/+10In a couple decades we'll be watching the remakes.

    Go Hollywood.
    • roxics, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3A couple decades? Hollywood seems to believe everyones memories are erased every five years.
  • itsgotyou, on 05/13/2008, -28/+9***** Star Wars and ***** you, you ***** *****!
    • twiztidsinz, on 05/13/2008, -3/+4no u
    • mCanada, on 05/13/2008, -1/+7I don't care if that's dugg down, I found it quite refreshing.
      • itsgotyou, on 05/13/2008, -2/+3just venting off some steam. thanks for understanding. and sorry for any offense.
        • mCanada, on 05/13/2008, -1/+2Hey no problem, have you heard of a website called 4chan perchance?
    • diggdallas, on 05/13/2008, -1/+6***** me? No, ***** YOU, you ***** *****.
    • anononon, on 05/13/2008, -1/+2Oh yeah? Well ***** you and anybody that looks like you!
  • whatthefu, on 05/13/2008, -5/+15Just quit making Star Wars movies. The original story was great, but when you try to build and build upon something it eventually collapses under its own weight.
    • fumar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Not true, look at the Expanded Universe stuff some of that is absolutely fantastic. I for one cannot wait for the live action series because it will cover a period of time not even the books delve too deeply in. Yeah we have a few adventure stories of Han Solo and theres the book about Vader in the weeks after episode 3 but still thats a good 20 years. Surely something interesting had to have happened, after all the rebellion did have to have a beginning other than a few senators talking about the idea of it.
      • belgar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3The tragedy of the Star Wars canon and universe is the work of the book writers.
        I've bought almost every book that has come out since the first series was released in the early 90s -- and read them in order, out of order, several times, because they did two things so effectively:
        1) Expanded the story of the original trilogy;
        2) Fact- and consistency-checked EVERY aspect of every book. Seriously, the people involved in the continuity of the books must have been Nazi-like in their dedication.
        So, for almost a decade, the cash cow that actually respected the fans and the story continued. Then, George woke up, realized that he needed to refill the coffers, and "dusted off" his original story of the prequels.
        Not only did the three movies suck massive, massive balls, they also managed to DESTROY the continuity of the storylines developed in the books. Honestly, if I'd been involved in that work for LucasArts, I would walk into George's office, ***** on his desk, and quit. There are people who have spent most of their professional careers trying to make sure the books all made sense together, that the stories were consistent, and that GOOD writers were working the franchise. To have this cockbite waltz back in and make such a hash of the whole thing would, for me, be untenable.
        Will I watch the new movie? Yes. Will I watch the series? Yes. But I wish that I could say that I hold any hope for any reboot/expansion until (I hate to say it, because he's a human too) George kicks the bucket. I just can't fathom that someone could be so egotastic that he could ignore the wealth of work that has been generated by others, and need to "enhance" the scripts himself. But, he keeps doing it -- badly.
    • ceredron, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1James.. Bond?
    • shogun545, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2You're right and you're wrong to an extent I think. I think what they have to do is maintain the Star Wars magical feel and explore the universe. We've been stuck with basically the same pool of characters for 6 full movies. It's really time to move on and explore some other characters and exotic locales. I'm not talking on the level of Star Trek's "One planetary exploration/away team mission per week", but develop some new core characters. Continue making movies, just stop regurgitating the old formula.
  • JRjJ106, on 05/13/2008, -8/+3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQMSASTIgBs
  • PhillyVC, on 05/13/2008, -8/+30I'd be cool with a Jar Jar Binks talk/reality show type thing..
    • wavesmachine, on 05/13/2008, -5/+4I hope you get buried to hell.
    • Matri, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5That has GOT to be more interesting than the next Paris Hilton "reality show".
    • paulvq, on 05/13/2008, -0/+7They already have one. It's called the Tyra Banks Show.
    • anononon, on 05/13/2008, -0/+8What yousa sayin? Yousa bein crazy!
  • XxpokemasterxX, on 05/13/2008, -2/+1they better not mess it up
  • V0lk, on 05/13/2008, -8/+11stick it with a fork...it's DONE. (and has been since Phantom Menace)
    • antiorblkflag9, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5Since the end of Jedi, yours makes it sound like you're including Phantom Menace
  • BradBrown, on 05/13/2008, -8/+3Five D-list actors...forced to live on a death star...there can be only one..."Sith Lord Survivor." Followed by "Shot of HIV" with Thien Thanh Thi Nguyen.
  • Nowaiman, on 05/13/2008, -4/+16To be honest, if they keep making crap, I'll keep watching it.
  • johnn11238, on 05/13/2008, -7/+33Buried for:
    "... that same magic as the original trilogy AND PREQUELS?"
    • roberthead, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3word.
    • antiorblkflag9, on 05/13/2008, -2/+3Prequals != Star Wars
    • fumar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Episode 1 should really be completely redone. Other than the lightsaber battle at the end it was pure trash. Episode 2 wasn't much better.
    • ZenMojo, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Deadbolt provides nothing but comic relief at this point.
    • shogun545, on 05/13/2008, -1/+0Agreed. Some of that blue/green screen magic was on the same level of quality as some of my first ever home movies.
  • Perk, on 05/13/2008, -2/+11To heck with TV shows... I just want a remake of Tie Fighter that's not dumbed down for the consoles.
    • skav, on 05/13/2008, -0/+11Where did all the TIE fighter / Wing Commander style games go ? What happened to the entire genre?

      And while we're at it - why don't they make top-down turn-based strategy games anymore? Like XCOM and fallout - even the new fallout is real-time...

      Get off my lawn!
      • fumar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Flight sims somehow got out of style, I guess its just too PC centric and since people think PC gaming is dying, which its not, they don't want to make games that will only work well on the PC.

        As for turn based games: Console tards are too impatient for it and since EVERY game MUST have a console port all games get dumbed down.
        • danwallace, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1I don't think so. First person shooters are far more PC-centric than fliers and they're dominating the console market right now.
      • shogun545, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3First person shooters and RTSs simply started to outsell hardcore flightsims or simulation games such as Mechwarrior. I suppose it probably had something to do with the tendency for simulators to feel too linear, people just prefer controlling Ryu Hayabusa or Gordon Freeman. A real shame, because with todays technology (think, multiple cores leads to massive battles with realistic physics) and a little bit of innovation you could make an awesome game.
        • belgar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Get off my MW2/Grand Council lawn. Damn, I miss lag-fighting.
  • T8erT0T, on 05/13/2008, -1/+24Wookie Sitcom.
  • alwaysthere, on 05/13/2008, -0/+18I know what the Star Wars universe needs! They should make a Christmas Special.
  • Ruger11mcrdpi, on 05/13/2008, -6/+8MTV CRIBS: Visit Darth Vader's $3 Trillion Death Star Chill pad
    SPEED TV: Pod Racing
    TruTV: On Patrol with the Naboo SWAT
    FOOD TV: How to cook a Gungan in 30 mins or less

    Finally:

    FOX NEWS: How to take over the Galactic Senate, remove power from the people and control them through fear!

  • jackdaniels06, on 05/13/2008, -2/+10I was once the biggest Star Wars fan. I dunno anymore. Anybody want some free Star Wars books and comics?
    • matschig, on 05/13/2008, -9/+1Anyone want to get their sh!t pushed in? For free?
  • MrFurious2k, on 05/13/2008, -4/+22What do they mean magic of "..the prequels"? The original trilogy was good, but the prequels were trash for the most part.
    • petebot, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1What do they mean magic of "..the prequels"? The original trilogy was good, but the prequels were trash.

      Fixed.
  • ThePikey, on 05/13/2008, -0/+22I've got a few more shows they could add.
    "Dancing with the Sith"
    "Little Ewoks Big World"
    "Luke Skywalker - 40 and single"
    "Force of Love - with Darth Vader"
    "Are you smarter than a Clone Trooper?"
    • antiorblkflag9, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5Shhh, don't let Fox hear you....they might take you up on those
    • doshindude, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5I'd definitely watch Are you smarter than a Clone Trooper.
      Don't forget Alderaan Idol and Tatooian Dad.
    • ZenMojo, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2What about:
      "'Til Deathstar?"
      "Back to R2D2"
      "One Threepio Hill"
      "Am I Hutt or Not?"
      "Biggs Love"
      "How I met Mon Mothma"
      "Ugly Jedi"
      ...
      Yeah, this is addictive.
    • msflower97, on 05/13/2008, -1/+1"The Real World: Dagobah"
  • iEnigma, on 05/13/2008, -3/+6The prequels had magic?
  • imightbewrong, on 05/13/2008, -0/+11An Even Better Hope: Star Wars the flame thrower
  • seanvox, on 05/13/2008, -1/+7same magic as the prequels? are you kidding me?
  • JEAH, on 05/13/2008, -1/+3FTA:
    "If anything the trailers for The Clone Wars look a lot more serious and sinisterly cool in a Japanese Manga type of manner."

    yea, cuz when you hear that Jabba the Hutt's son has been kidnapped, you know this is gunna be one serious and sinisterly cool movie.
    • fumar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+0Yes, because Jabba is one of those lovable characters, right next to the Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks' corpse.
  • TomGfromCanada, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2I Love STAR WARS
  • jjgasp, on 05/13/2008, -2/+1In another ten years, a 3rd trilogy picking up 40 years after Episodes 4-6.
  • cybr2K, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Imagine if the final trilogy (Episodes 7, 8, and 9) in the series could be made? It will probably never happen though.
  • mantis108, on 05/13/2008, -0/+11The thought that I will never see Vice Admiral Thrawn, or Mara Jade, or Han and Leia'd jedi twins, etc... brought to the big screen (and no, not in animated fashion) is depressing. I agree this can't and shouldn't go on forever but how cool would it be to get the Thrawn books as sequel episodes 7, 8, and 9.. ah well, one can dream, anyway.
    • IAmRoot, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3It's Grand Admiral Thrawn. I think the Thrawn trilogy as a movie would be great as long as George Lucas doesn't mess it up. It's by far the best Star Wars trilogy I've ever read or seen.
      • mantis108, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3I agree that it could be the best trilogy.. and Lucas would have to pretty much not be involved to not mess it up :) I.e., snowball's chance in hell of it happening (sigh). Thanks for the the Thrawn correction, i was going from memory and it's been a good 8-10 years or so since I read those.
    • pablo0713, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1I read those books, or at least tried to when they were first released. I think I got through the first two. It just didn't feel right. Very formulaic. Good guys go to location, Empire follows, good guys escape. Over and over. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed and haven't read another Star Wars book since.
    • isaactwito, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1A new republic trilogy has potential to be very cool if you don't let Lucas direct or write. I also am for the idea of doing Shadows of the Empire, by far the coolest book.
  • hopeast, on 05/13/2008, -0/+15Yoda 08
  • KevinRWright, on 05/13/2008, -1/+1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlUlGjiZNDw

    This is a new hope...or these cats are just retarded.
  • mparker7410, on 05/13/2008, -1/+1Incredibly wordy and ultimately boring article.
  • damndj, on 05/13/2008, -2/+3..except there was no "magic" in the prequels. Just Hollywood/Lucas shovelware.
  • PhilMoskowitz, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Once it's out of the hands of that emotional cripple, I actually have high hopes for it. Actually I have hope for it, as opposed to putting it in a grave and forgetting about it.
    • fumar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+0The fact Lucas isn't directing gives it a chance at life.
  • wolfofwar, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3Star Wars will never die. It's a giant universe with a rich backstory and amazing potential to go forward. With a group of talented writers, artists, and marketers, theres no reason for Star Wars to fade away into the binary sunset.
    • shogun545, on 05/13/2008, -1/+0Uh... yeah, and with a group of untalented writers, artists, and marketers, there's every reason for Star Wars to fade away into the binary sunset. But the truth is that so many products based on the franchise are made each year, you're bound to have success with one or two of them.
  • taizoshiozaki, on 05/13/2008, -0/+7Boba Fett spin-off would be nice.
    • mantis108, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Damn, that would be cool.
    • ZenMojo, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Maybe they can finally justify the nerd hard-ons for a character who only had three scenes and three lines of dialogue.
  • nraphael, on 05/13/2008, -1/+1If I say something like "The prequels had magic?" can I join the gang of halfwits that don't read anybody elses posts before adding their own? Yes?
    Ok. What do they mean - the prequels had magic?
  • theboozer, on 05/13/2008, -0/+9Star Wars: Smugglers tales - animated show about how Han Solo got so damn cool, why Chewbacca hangs out with him, and what makes The Kessel Run so friggin' insane.

    Make this show, and I can die happy.
  • SouthsideIrish, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1All of this has already been written. The entire saga from about 40 years prior to, and after, is done, so the most they can do is do a movie of a book. If Lucas came out with a movie or a series that re-wrote the Stars Wars history, that he already approved, he would lose all of the fans that have been spending money on those books. It would be a bloodbath, IMHO, for him.
  • megalaser, on 05/13/2008, -6/+0Star Wars is for kids - Lucas cannot direct. The first movie is a great kids movie, so is the second one, the third one is garbage and of the prequels only attack of the clones is reasonable. Star Wars is the most overrated franchise of all time. It's great entertainment but not real science fiction like 2001, Alien or Contact (the most underrated Sci Fi movie of recent years).
  • TheMachine1, on 05/13/2008, -1/+2I've wrote an alternative script for a remake Star Wars IV. Its from an atheist and machine's point of view. R2D2 is the hero dealing with not only the empire but a group of religious/schizotypals. The famous scene where Luke uses the "force" instead of his computer to destroy the Death Star. The remake has R2D2 in full control.
  • caleone, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2I know some people really bag on the prequels but personally, I'm in love with the entire Star Wars universe. For anything that expands on the story, I say bring it on. I'll be watching.
  • shogun545, on 05/13/2008, -1/+0I don't like the concept of "Clone Wars" because to be honest, I'm tired of watching the same characters that are directly connected to all 6 movies. I'm hoping the live action tv series will be something new and creative. If not, then maybe the internets legions can rally and force Lucas' hand. Perhaps at lightsaber point.
    • inefekt, on 05/13/2008, -0/+0Lucas has already stated that very few of the characters we know will be in the live action series, they'll mostly be all new
  • Tyrghast, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3A smart group, Lucas-free, can come together to make great star wars products. If the prequel trilogy had the same quality, finesse, and fun of KOTOR, they would have been great. Instead, Georgie boy had a bad trip and called it Jar-Jar. I really really really want to know what was going through the heads of those working on the prequels.
  • heystoopid, on 05/13/2008, -1/+1Looks like it has already jumped the shark !
  • msflower97, on 05/13/2008, -1/+3Is it just me, or was part of the REAL magic of the first three movies (i.e. episodes IV, V and VI) the live action miniatures and old-fashioned camera tricks, as opposed to the CGI crap Lucas later used to "improve" the first trilogy and then make the prequels? Wasn't Yoda better as a Muppet than as a computer-generated light saber whiz? Sigh...(I saw Star Wars in the theater in 1977 at the age of 9...)
    • smek2, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2Same reason why the new Indy movie will suck. It will be overloaded with special effects, three times the price of the old tricks, which looked more natural anyway. I slowly start to hate everything blue- or greenscreen.
    • Raptor007, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1I don't know why you're getting dugg down, I totally agree! All the CGI characters in the prequels and special edition are unbelievable and obnoxious. I can enjoy CGI space battles, but the characters and settings should be real.
  • cfuse, on 05/13/2008, -1/+1It's been made into eye poison by Lucas's insanity. Kill yourself Lucas.
  • Chronomagnus, on 05/13/2008, -1/+2I'm expecting lots of crappy melodrama, a couple awesome battles, and that's about it.

    What's up with the cartoon? Someone kidnapped Jabba's son? Does anyone care?
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