F1 Spa 2008 : Hamilton penalised, Massa handed win

120 Comments

armo, on 09/07/2008, -11/+83What an absolute disgrace, he clearly relinquished the position he had gained to Raikonnen. If this decision stands Spa will be the last F1 race I watch after 20 years of barely missing a single one.

***** THE FIA, and there blatant Ferrari bias.
bagwaa, on 09/07/2008, -6/+59Yup, total fix and this is ***** -- he won the race fair and square, the choice he had in that corner (which he entered first I might add) was either let kimi push him off the track or hit him, so by going over the side of the track and then handing back the place he gained NO advantage. This is a total outrage and is probably down to the fact that the president of the FIA is a raving racist like his old man ... ***** F1 they might as well get WWE stars in the game too ... its as realistic!
ISEEDEADPEOPLE, on 09/07/2008, -4/+48Formula 1 just died for me!
After having seen pretty much every Grand Prix for over 20 years, today will be my last.
The FIA are so biased toward Ferrari that there is no point in watching any more, Hamilton drove a great, measured race he needed his engine for Monza and instead of ragging it to bits he stayed close enough to Kimi to have the chance should the rain come, If Kimi had won he still would have extended his Championship lead. The move was bold it didn't pay off and he then backed off and moved in behind Kimi and nailed him in to the next corner Lewis did everything right and Kimi even got back passed him when a Williams cut Lewis off.
The FIA need to be very aware that it is no longer a spectator sport if ludicrous decision like this change the result of a great race.

I will sorely miss my Sunday afternoon rants at the telly (or James Allen to be precise).
ChrisLondon, on 09/08/2008, -2/+34FIA = Ferrari International Assistance.
jacobj, on 09/07/2008, -5/+36This is a joke. Hamilton let him past. I'd like to see the regulation that says that he has to let him pass by x metres, or for y corners or for z seconds. I have watched to footage over again and again and the Ferrari is clearly in front. Hamilton's McLaren had considerably more traction than the Ferrari (which is does in the wet on hard tyres). Any argument about momentum are ridiculous: momentum is the product of mass and momentum and therefore, the fact that Hamilton slows down and the Ferrari passes, means that he lost that momentum. Any argument that Hamilton should have backed off before the corner also holds no water: trying to bully a driver to give you the line is common and is not penalised in the sport unless it causes an unnecessary accident (hence Kovalainen's penalty). An argument about slipstream is also ridiculous as the McLaren is cutting from side to side at the rear of the Ferrari and is therefore in the dirty air.

So all I can see is that the McLaren has been punished for being a better car in the conditions. Perhaps that is a rule that is in very small print: any car better than the Ferrari on the day will be deducted points. Ferrari is the upper limit for performance by the rules and as per the weight having to be 600kg, so must a car not out accelerate, corner or break a Ferrari or points will be deducted.

I will not watch another F1 race until a new championship excluding Ferrari is created or the FIA admits to its internal corruption publicly.
dsmx, on 09/08/2008, -2/+24Hamilton does nothing wrong and gets a 25 second penalty, ferrari does something wrong they get a small driver fine.
bagwaa, on 09/07/2008, -3/+24It's not the first time things like this have happened, its OK for Ferrari to dick around in the pit lane, run down their own men, cut teams up, and drive down the pit lane trying to overtake, and the same people think this isn't a win? no point in watching any more- how can you win over idiots like this?
jacobj, on 09/07/2008, -3/+24I also like the fact that 23.1 i) in the regulations state that "It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so." As stated in regulation 16.1 an incident can be anything that "constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code" and 16.3 states:
"The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds
and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver’s next Event. "

Therefore since the Ferrari incident was an "incident" as defined by these guidelines, where was the drop of 10 grid places at the next race? Was that not the option?
cazlar, on 09/08/2008, -1/+21After a great race, with a real exciting ending, to have it all ruined like this is stupid. Lewis had to cut the corner, or otherwise he'd hit Kimi. No question. So he cut it, then let Kimi past again, as he had to do by the rules. Lewis let Kimi get completely in front of him, and Kimi should have had the better momentum, due to Lewis's slowdown, but was a bit tentative in the conditions I think, so Lewis got past again.
I'm a Kimi fan, but Lewis very much deserved this win. They should sack the whole FIA leadership...
SabersKunk, on 09/08/2008, -0/+19Its was a disgraceful decision. The kicker is that the penalty is a post-race drive through, which is why 25 seconds are added to Hamiltons time. The rules state that drive-through penalties can NOT be appealed so the stewards not only made a blatant decision to fix the outcome of the race, they did so in a manner that can't be appealed. Disgraceful!
lovecss, on 09/08/2008, -3/+22Just adding my disgust in their decision to penalise Hamilton. Yes he did overtake using the chicane but he let Kimi re-take the position and then re-took it back off him again. Martin Brundle (an ex-F1 driver, commentating on the race for ITV) called this as perfectly acceptable. I wonder how much Ferrari are paying the FIA to screw over McLaren, again...
Number23, on 09/08/2008, -2/+19Bernie! The red phone is ringing!

It was a thrilling ending at Motorsport's most epic venue. It's a shame it was ruined by Bernie's knee-jerk Ferrari favoritism
Crono, on 09/08/2008, -0/+15This is garbage. It just proves to me that the FIA is out to get Mclaren.
What a load of crap. Screw you FIA.
physco827, on 09/08/2008, -1/+16Yeah like in Round 12, when the Ferrari team almost caused a pit lane crash. The stewards said they would review it "after the race" even though it was halfway thru the race, could have been reviewed. But mysteriously NOTHING HAPPENED, their bias towards the Ferrari team is RIDICULOUS. Oh and they took Indianapolis out of the race lineup for next year to, the provisional schedule at least. THE FIA SUCKS.
cosulliv755, on 09/08/2008, -0/+14The move by Hamilton to overtake the Ferrari was epic. Lewis dropped back as he rightly should have having gained an advantage by crossing the corner. knowing this Lewis dropped in behind the Ferrari, got a tow and then slammed passed it FTW. It was one of the most thrilling victories and the best end to a race this season. Having Lewis's victory handed off to Ferrari is a ***** sham. This clearly wrong decision is a Disgrace to the sport. Any one who agrees with this decision should be ashamed of them selves.
jacobj, on 09/07/2008, -0/+13The chief steward is appointed by the FIA!
balliamo, on 09/08/2008, -1/+13I am a Ferrari supported and I don't like Hamilton at all. But I agree, he deserved to win big time and the penalty is a joke.
Blame the FIA not the Ferrari. Even if they whined, they have nothing to do with the actual decision of the penalty.
aegis9975, on 09/08/2008, -1/+13The FIA is a huge joke, it seems you can only win in this 'sport' if you're well connected to certain officials. Cronyism is rampant in F1 and the FIA.

Hamilton did let Kimi past after the chicane, and was subsequently overtaken by Kimi again anyways a few turns later. It was only when Kimi made a mistake and spun that Hamilton retook Kimi. Kimi then hit a wall likely due to trying to catch up after his spin. Which makes everything inconsequential anyways.

Considering how wet it was, and how many drivers went off, including Kimi, its an utter joke. Massa most definitely did not deserve a win this race.
redbeard, on 09/08/2008, -1/+13I am disgusted by this decision, but I am interested in how the Italian press is spinning this fiasco.
bigpun, on 09/08/2008, -0/+10Was quite interesting watching the interviews before the race itself. They were discussing the bias towards Ferarri which ironically ended with the race results being overturned in their favour.
Greg2k, on 09/08/2008, -0/+10***** THE FIA!
rodrigo74, on 09/08/2008, -0/+9Let's play the devil's advocate a bit:

I think that if Hamilton were a bit more experienced he could have avoided that penalty. He was so much faster than Kimi at that time, that after cutting through the chicane he should have let Kimi lead for a little longer, follow him through La Source hairpin and then pass at the end of the straight, at Les Combes chicane. That would look like enough time for the FIA stewards to consider his move valid. He was a bit too eager, but then again, I understand what he did (hindsight is always 20/20). I knew straight away that the stewards would investigate the incident, but I thought that Hamilton would be considered innocent or in the worst case get a punishment for the next race, not have this victory taken.

I am a Massa supporter (hey, I'm a Brazilian), so I hope that Massa wins this championship by more than 6 points, so people won't use yesterday's decision to belittle his championship. Massa (and Hamilton) are kicking everyone else's ass this season, including Kimi's.
MCMLXXXII, on 09/08/2008, -0/+9I just have to say that this was one of the most exciting races I have ever seen in my life and the last 4 laps or so was on the edge of your seat excitement. This controversy just ads to it. I am a Ferrari fan but I have to say that Lewis did deserve the win only for the fact that whatever advantage he had gained in the chicane became irrelevant once Kimi crashed. The FIA should keep the race context in to consideration and not impose penalties just to stick by the letter of the law. Lewis deserved the victory and Massa did not. It is as simple as that. Gifting it to Massa who by no means could have passed Lewis even if Lewis has stayed behind Kimi and not passed him. Races should be decided on the track. Not by officials in a closed room after the event.
tomj88, on 09/08/2008, -1/+10If you watched the Saturday GP2 race there was an almost identical situation with Bruno Senna leaving his pit box, but unlike Massa he was given a drive through penalty. Also, at round 12, please remember Kimi Raikkonen left his pit box before he was meant to, knocking over one of the guy's refueling the car, and it caused that mechanic to have broken bones. However, he was not penalized for this.

At Monaco, you may remember Kimi smashed into the back of Adrian Sutil, but he wasn't given a penalty because it was deemed to be tricky conditions or some other *****, yet Heikki Kovalinen was given a drive through penalty for making contact with Mark Webber at Spa, which he did deserve in my opinion, but how was it not tricky conditions at Spa?

And then onto the penalty Hamilton was given at Spa. As you have said, he relinquished the position (granted, he probably should have backed off more), but if you watch you will see Kimi lost control of it going to the straight heading into La Source, which is not a high speed straight. Then, Kimi proceeded to run into the back of Hamilton. McLaren asked Charlie Whiting (the race director) if they had complied with the rules, and he said to them yes. If you ask me, if the race director has said that it was o.k., they should not be allowed to after the race penalise McLaren for that incident!

It's an absolute disgrace how biased the FIA is towards Ferrari, and as many of my friends and people on various forums have said thats it, they've had it with F1, and I am unfortunately inclined to feel the same too.
MCA2142, on 09/08/2008, -0/+8Charlie's a *****.

Lewis deserved this one. He won fair and square. Even let Kimi pass him after the run off.
OfF3nSiV3, on 09/08/2008, -0/+8Man, everything from this incident has been deleted from Youtube. All that is left are some crap photo videos..=S
pinje, on 09/08/2008, -1/+9Lewis did nothing wrong, if he didnt use the escape road he would have collided with Kimi taking him or both out of the race. Then let Kimi pass (as he should to comply with the rules) and then outbraked him into the hairpin. Absolutly nothing was wrong with it.
Its a shame, as it's things like this which will ruin the sport, not only will it see fans turn there back on the sport but the teams will do as well, I didn't want to see a breakaway series, but now it may be the only way of getting a true, fair race.
aegis9975, on 09/08/2008, -0/+7Here is a video of the incident:

Judge for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTo1rjn054c
Greg2k, on 09/08/2008, -0/+7also Fédération Italienne de l'Automobile

and maFIA

and FIAsco

I could go on forever...
fquednau, on 09/08/2008, -1/+8They should definitely appeal. It was quite funny - I have a tendency to like Ferrari, but one should stick to the rules, damnit. I saw the race and Hamilton gave back the position he assumed by cutting the corner and avoiding an accident. I then saw the news coverage later in the day (RTL Germany) which definitely seemed to have a bias to Ferrari, since they only showed Hamilton cutting the corner, but not his giving back the place. The comments here reassure me that he DID give back the position, I didn't dream it, so really, W*T*F*?
andydumi, on 09/08/2008, -0/+7logic, rules, and the FIA dont mix when we talk about Ferrari.
pembs, on 09/07/2008, -13/+19Come sign the petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.htm ...
auto98, on 09/08/2008, -0/+6It should also be noted that kimi swerved twice going down the straight - the rules say you may only make 1 movement like that
eking64, on 09/08/2008, -0/+6Agree with most of the comments, Ferrari bias. If there was more racing like that between LH and KR throughout the field and at other venues then we wouldn't be relegated to watching F1 on Speed in the US. The removal of TC has really provided some great racing this year, but those cars have got to be tough to drive in the rain without TC.
dsmx, on 09/08/2008, -0/+6He made no mistakes, he did nothing wrong and he legitimately overtook kimi at the hair pin by out braking him. He did nothing wrong and gets penalised for it.
DarwinBC, on 09/08/2008, -1/+6***** THE FIA!
jrowny, on 09/08/2008, -0/+5I watched the last 4 laps about 10 times on DVR. Go watch it!
getatmedigg, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4How is mechanical failure (Massa's engine failure) and a post race penalty equal? And what do they have to do with each other?
Trendy2, on 09/08/2008, -1/+5Signed. Do the right thing FIA - Lewis earned that win. It's now a real stain on what was a great race
aoctavio, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4Why? That's nowhere in the rules! He had to guess it?
dsmx, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4yes he should get a 10 place penalty at the next race, if hamilton gets penalised for following the rules why should kimi not get punished for breaking the rules?
gincarnated, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4A 10,000 euro fine would also have been apporpriate :)
julesverne, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4A bad record at the hands of the FIA.
tomj88, on 09/08/2008, -0/+4yes, it should been at least a 10 place penalty at the next race, his dangerous driving in the pits has injured one of his mechanics. If it was *any* other team they would have penalised for that.
spish, on 09/08/2008, -2/+6Amazing finish, too bad the FIA has a Ferrari bias... Unbelievable *****. This has really thrown my loyalty to F1 into quesion. Is McLaren appealing?
Majhem, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3That was a lapped car that Massa was 'racing' in the pits, that would have had to yield to lapping traffic in the first place...
Majhem, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3Hehe, Thanks to Mr. Schumacher, that is illegal now.
DarwinBC, on 09/08/2008, -1/+4I can't even tell you how pissed off I am right now
tomj88, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3ITV interviewed Ron Dennis right after the race and he said that they asked Charlie Whiting (race director, not the stewards) if they had backed off enough and he said, yes, Lewis had complied with the rules. In my opinion, if the race director says that he has complied then they should not be allowed to overturn the ruling after the race, its unfair on McLaren then because there is nothing they can do at that point
TimmyA, on 09/08/2008, -0/+3That's utter rubbish, Lewis was 6 kph slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line, according to the data.

It's an astonishingly stupid decision, good to see people like Niki Lauda criticising it. I think the only thing Hamilton did wrong was start the race in a car that wasn't red enough.

Damned if he did, and damned if he didn't.
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