What is Digg?77 Comments
- seandaly, on 10/15/2007, -1/+7Wow, the internet is a strange beast...
Just as you should not blindly follow crap that circulates the internet, you should not quickly dismiss it either.
Let me clarify some of the "myths" that I've seen on previous renditions of this here on Diggs.
#1. Acetone will wreck your fuel lines: This is partially true but false in this context. You are directed to use 100% pure acetone, which is a solvent, but one of the weaker solvents out there. Yes, it does dissolve plastics and rubber, but not at the concentration that you'd be adding to your tank. The article mentions adding 1 to 3 ounces of acetone per 10 gallons of gasoline. 10 gallons of gasoline is 1280 ounces, which is less than 1/4 of a percent. The solvent nature at that concentration would be negligible if at all.
#2. Acetone will kill your car: Acetone will NOT kill your car! Remember that Gasoline itself acts as a solvent. The only parts that acetone (concentrated mind you) would damage would be cheap rubber and plastics, neither of which are found in an automotive fuel system. If 100% pure acetone ate all plastics, why would it be shipped and stored in plastic containers? Acetone will not harm metal either. The only issue I can see would be with blow-by... Blow-by is the process in which the combustion blows past the rings. This happens in every engine to some extent, much more in older engines with worn rings. One might think that the Acetone (after quite a bit of time) might break down the oil, but if you change your oil often, this should be a non-issue. Using Synthetic such as Mobil 1 might reduce the risk all together.
3: Remember that acetone is not being added as a "power-add" such as NOS. The purpose of adding the acetone is to increase mileage by increasing the vaporization of the fuel. No fuel or engine completely vaporizes the fuel. The better the vaporization, the more efficient the engine will run. Acetone would increase vaporization because it supposedly reduces the surface tension of the fuel. The theory is such that a fuel having a reduced surface tension will vaporize easier due to reduced cohesion and adhesion. Cohesion is the strong intermolecular force that helps keep like molecules together. In addition, one could theorize that vaporization could be increase by reducing adhesion, which is the attractive force between two unlike molecules, like a molecule of fuel and molecules of the steel, iron or aluminum inside your engine. Simple physics; if you reduce the cohesion and adhesion, you reduce the fuels natural ability to keep itself together or sticking to parts in the engine, which are both counter-productive in the vaporization process.
"10% ethanol in my gas sucks, why should I use acetone"? Ethanol will NOT increase gas mileage! EVER! It takes about 1/3 more ethanol to create the same amount of power than gasoline. Ethanol is used for a few different reasons, one of which is to reduce emissions, another is to subsidize farmers. Ethanol DOES allow you to run MUCH higher compression ratios as it is much less prone to detonation, which is why you see funny cars running it. Running an engine on pure ethanol, you could theoretically increase the compression (run a turbo or supercharger) and get much more power out of a smaller engine. There are also issues with doing this, but that is another subject. Acetone is nothing like ethanol and the person who infers that is a complete moron.
There are many that feel that Propane is one of the most efficient fuels to run a combustion engine. One can assume that this might be true because propane is already almost completely vaporized, which wastes less fuel. If a product added to gasoline increase the vaporization, one could conclude that it might increase mileage.
I'm not saying you should do this, but investigate the facts before saying it's a bad idea, just as you should before actually doing something like this. - energyscience, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Unfortunately most mechanical engineers I have encountered are quick to cite their degree and usually know nothing about basic chemistry; this message proves no exception. For all confused souls, no one is recommending pure acetone in your tank, rather a blend of 1 to 3 ounces per 10 gallons. The reaction test from Cole Palmer's compatibility guide is for pure forms, and when you look up some of the few compatibilities for mixtures, the effects on common polymers (plastics) change dramatically.
I have to be less kind to the simple statement that "acetone eats rubber and silicone, enough said". Truly enough said, since RUBBER gloves are recommended by the US Army when working with acetone, and by manufacturers that follow OSHA recommended glove breakthrough test procedures. And silicone, especially RTV silicone, is recommended by DOT for sealing leaks on containers of acetone. Check your facts again dummy, Go to the EPA CEPPO website and download a copy of CAMEO, a very easy to use chemical hazards and properties database. The PPE section will show the error of your ways.
For the confused soul that thinks acetone is so toxic, please go to the CDC toxicity registry website and compare gasoline, ethanol, methanol, and acetone. There is a reason acetone is the only common solvent not listed as a hazardous air pollutant, because it is one of the least hazardous solvents available. That still doesn't mean go drink some, and it is flammable, so yes you can get in trouble around an ignition source. However, your skin will not rot off or become cancerous from getting a splash with acetone (BTW, gasoline still has benzene and related BTEXs in it, a serious cancer risk).
The worst that probably would happen to your engine from using small quantities of acetone is early oxygen sensor failure, especially if acetone in the metal cans from the hardware store is used (can you say tin salt contamination?).
And for those who say the oil companies would have added it years ago if acetone works as claimed, I would like to know what Utopian plane you live on. At best large corporations are resistant to change. The use of anything not refined by them (acetone is a fermentation and pulp/paper processing byproduct) would mean an oil company would have to depend on another company or market for an additive. Sorry, not likely to win over the Exxon board of directors with that one.
I have known aviation mechanics that add acetone to aviation fuel to prevent icing, and they have swore by it for at least 20 years. I will try it in my Honda Insight soon since I have an accurate MPG guage for more rapid comparisons.
And to the person who posted that acetone is used in various carb cleaners, you are correct, it has been used in various cleaning additives for about 20 years. It is also in a product used to remove plugging of catalytic converters. An oil change outfit overfilled my Insight a couple of years ago, I caught the mistake early (no blown seals or gaskets) but some PCV blow by occurred into the air intake. The fix was a flush of the intake with an acetone-rich mixture, and the same was added to the gas. I got 72 mpg on the Interstate the following week, the best mileage I have ever gotten in this car. I watched my mileage climb on the trip from mid 50s, to low 70s in the first 100 miles driven since the addition. - scottevans, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4oh, and don't get it on your automobile paint. it will take the paint right off. be careful, measure it right, and use a funnel.
- das7282, on 10/12/2007, -4/+81. Acetone will eat most plastics and synthetic rubbers. I know, I use to work at a plastics factory and one of the tests we use to perform on our plastic was to soak it in acetone to see how the plastic broke down over time ("how" it broke down was very important to QC.) Most seals in your fuel system are made of synthetic rubbers like around your fuel pump and sending unit in your tank, any rubber fuel lines and your seals around you injectors. And lets not even mention that most of the injector's body is made of plastic!.
2. One cars with O2 sensors this is also a very bad idea. For one because the acetone may cause your O2 sensor to send an inaccurate signal to the ECM which can either hurt fuel economy or increase emissions (or both). And second, the O2 sensor is very sensitive to contamination. Once an O2 sensor is contaminated, it stops working all together and the only thing you can do is replace the O2 sensor. This is why they have "street legal" and "off road only" octane boosters. The street legal booster won't contaminate the O2 sensor where the off road only WILL contaminate the O2 sensor!
This is a very bad idea and NO ONE should try it. If you do don't say you weren't warned! - Richie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3All gas is the same when it comes from the refinery. Howver, like some posters have said, the additives and boosters are different. Also, the way the gas is handled is different. Maybe Walmart's underground storage tank at that particular location has a small leak, letting groundwater in. Maybe WalMart uses really ***** and cheap additives. Maybe their tanker trucks flake paint on the inside, clogging up your fuel filters. Maybe their tanker drivers are so badly paid that they sell off half their load, pocket the cash and dilute their gas with paint thinner. Maybe Walmart get extra cheap Chinese gas, extracted from large underground caverns by specifically bred genetically modified child-laborers who can carry a full gallon of crude oil in their mouths from 500 feet below the earth's surface, refine it by cracking it in their throat and spit Regular gas directly into the vast bellies of decripit supertankers. Maybe.
But yeah, the main petro-chemical ingredient should be the same in all gas. There are fairly strict guidelines for the content to ensure proper operation all kinds of vehicles. - oldcyborg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Wow, what a stir!! If you read about the acetone + gasoline on the internet, you will find out a lot of things. One of which, is, that it doesn't work on ALL cars.. And they don't know why!! That causes the most grief about testing. It simply won't work on all vehicles, so it doesn't always test well at all. Thats a biggee, you gotta admit...
It HAS worked on 2 of my cars. 92 Subaru ended up with about 5 mpg increase. Not huge, but a big difference. So far, I'm only getting about 4mpg on my Cutlass Ciera 3.3, but I am experimenting with Marvel Mystery oil additive(to the gas), and am waiting for "Engine Treatment Plus", which is also supposed to help, via coating the metals of the engine. only a couple drops of it, and simply 2 oz of Marvel added to 2 oz of 100% Walmart Acetone. Very small cost.
Doing it is a pain, but I've grown accustomed to it, and once I stopped, I could see the mileage drop in One tank... So, I went back to it.
So, It's my opinion, that if you read enuff about it. La Pointe(is a start), and decide that you won't freak if you Don't get any results, then go for it. It can save you significant money over the long haul.
Straight Acetone (3 oz per 10 gallons), made both motors whine, after about 4-5 tankfuls. This is when I added the Marvel Mystery Oil. (which stopped the noise). There are other things recommended for this.Techron is one of them, and the acetone people will tell you to get gas at Chevron. I don't know, as we don't have a chevron station locally, and so I can't test it. It is plain old Go Mart gas for me. Low test, too....
The ppm solution of Acetone will not harm your car... Pshawww. Not one of the people who tell you it will harm your car, can show you proof, or even literature attesting to that harm.... I have asked many. They just resort to the known things, which are just not usable statistics in this particular case!!
So, if you wanna try it, I can't prove it will work for you, and I can't prove that it won't harm your car, but it does work for me, and it hasn't hurt my vehicles. (Transmission came out of my subaru after 12 years).
So, If the gas prices DO hurt you and your family, then give it a shot. If you do not get results, I am sorry. Like I said originally, It does not work on every vehicle, and thats the truth... :)
Cyborg
yes - das7282, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3dhughes: "The part of the article that is suspicious is " increased power ". The engine's compression ratio increases power, not the fuel used."
Compression ratio is definitely NOT the only thing that can increase horse power. There are so many other ways to increase horse power. Compression ratio is just one factor among many. Other things include valve lift, valve timing, ignition timing, engine displacement, crankshaft stroke, intake runner length, port size, etc... The list could go on and on.
But you are right to a small degree... Gas is gas. The only difference between different kinds of gas is the octane. I'm going to repeat that for everyone... "THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GAS IS THE OCTANE!" What I mean by that is, 93 octane gas is not any better and/or cleaner than 87 octane gas. In fact ALL GAS starts out as 87 octane gas and then the gas companies add octane boosters to the gas to make 89 or 93 octane gas.
And another thing should be known about gas, 93 octane gas DOES NOT make your car run better or allows it to make more power UNLESS your car REQUIRES high octane gas. Now with that said, it should also be known that 95% of the cars on the road DO NOT require high octane gas. The only cars out there that require high octane gas are cars that have compression ratios of 10:1 or higher! Cars like "high end" Mercedes, BMW's, Corvettes, etc... But cars like Honda Civics and Toyota Corolla's that have compression ratios of 8.5:1 to 9.5:1 will do just fine on 87 octane gas. Any thing between 9.5:1 and 10:1 needs 89 octane gas. If you are putting 93 octane gas in your Honda Civic you are doing nothing other than wasting you money.
Facts about high octane gas can be found at the bottom of this page...
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=939056&page=2 - jikl546, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I used this for about a month a few months ago and it did increase my mileage with no disastrous side-effects as warned numerous times above. I stopped simply because I'm lazy but maybe I'll try again...? I was told by a few mechanics that there were no "rubber parts" that the acetone would come into contact with and that the mixture (of gas and acetone) would dissolve most of the harmfulness that could ensue between acetone and plastic/rubber. Perhaps I was mislead but I KNOW that I gained 50 miles a tank with this mixture in my 98 Ford Explorer and 60 in my 02 Honda Civic.
But again, I'm lazy ;) - ,,|,_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3All gasoline sold by all companies in a specific area probably comes from the same refinery. I have friends who work at the Huntsman plant back where I grew up, in Odessa TX. Tanker trucks for all of the major oil companies lineup together to fill up. The only difference is the additives each company adds (i.e. Techron...) and the presence of any contaminants the gas comes into contact with along the way...
- GCL965, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4To all you "nay sayers"...
I have the proof that Acetone is used in gasoline.
h*ttp://www.berrymanproducts.com/Portals/0/uploads/msds/0216.pdf
(Material Safety Data Sheet)
Yes, a carburator cleaner (cleans fuel injectors too) that some may have used. It contains about 25% acetone (3 to 4 oz per treatment). If it was eating at the fuel lines and "O" rings and what-nots then this fuel additive would not be on the market.
So, why doesn't fuel companies add it to their fuel? How do you know they don't? Techron is a trade secret.
The guy that started this thread just let you folks know that he seen improvement. And some of you wanted his head. Get a life. He is not there trying to force you to put this in your car. He just said it worked for him.
I am going to try it because I have looked into it. It may work or it may not. $3 a gallon for gas is hurting. And if acetone gives an edge then I will take it. If it doesn't then I will not use it. It's simple.
- motss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well you guys can argue all you like, but facts are facts. I did my own research and deceided it was worth a try. So prior leaving on our vacation, I added exactly 2 oz. to 10 gal. of cheap gas. We have a '94 ford escort wagon. We live in Sutter Creek, California. We were going south, so we took hwy. 88 to 99. We have made this trip many times and only got about 27 mpg. and always filled up in Bakersfield which is about 300 miles from home. This trip with the ACETONE, we made 429 miles and only got gas because we spotted a cheap station. We ran 1 tank with and 2 tanks without. So arriving home after 1706 miles, our callulations added up to 42 miles per gal. Now, you can believe it or not, but I don't have $ to throw around, so I will continue to use the ACETONE in our only good car. As it was stated above, with the additive being so small and flushing out the tank with straight gas. There is no harm to engine parts as they do not use CHEAP PLASTICS. All you disbelievers can feed the gas companies. And one other thing. They're not going to add this to their fuel. That would be rather stupid do you think?
Motss - jazzyrick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Anyone who would attempt to replace gasoline with acetone certainly should be shot, but this is suggesting that you use 3 ounces per 10 gallons. Simple math says this is a .2% mixture. That's 2 tenths of one percent of everything in your gas tank would be acetone if you tried this. If that eats your seals and fuel lines I'll crap gold for a week for you personally.
I don't know if this works or not, because I haven't tried it or seen credible scientific evidence either for or against it, but believing someone else about the plausibility of this whether it's a chemical engineer, or God is ridiculous. If you think it might damage your car don't try it. If you think it might help then go ahead and give it a shot.
Why take a bunch of blowhard knowitalls advice that this is bogus? Your house will burn down if you try this, and your sister will get cancer too, and your car will start talking also. I know because some Industrial Engineer told me so. - vdub12, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well I guess your right all gas must be the same. I guess the cheap gas that has been making my car miss VERY badly that using Chevron fixed by the way was just a random thing.
By the way I spent months trying to figure out why my wife's 95 Mazda missed so bad and Finlay after changing every censor in the car i took it to a shop and the guy asked me what brand of gas I was using and I told him I that my wife used Wall Mart. He told me to start using Chevron and didn't charge me anything. He said if it continued then bring it back and he would look at it. Well it worked.
But like you said all gas is the same so don't bother to count the grand I spent when it was just the brand of gas.
By the way switching to chevron made my car go from missing REALLY REALLY BAD and getting about 20MPG to running great and getting about 32MPG
But like you said brand has nothing to do with it. Right? - SuperRob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You'll have to forgive me if I don't try this in my '91 Metro ... or anything else for that matter.
- aphro499, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Doesn't anyone use their brain?
Example: acetone will destroy rubber, rubber is in engine, therefore, acetone (in gas) will destroy engine. Looks like a logical transitive proof, but for the fact that the acetone is diluted in the gas. Were you adding pure acetone, sure it would be bad. If you are diluting it to 0.2% maybe, maybe not. Think about this, your body is basically an engine, takes in food, converts to energy, produces waste. Think about all the things we "put in our tanks" that is bad. One example, chlorine, basically bleach. It would destroy your guts if you drank it, so therefore if it was in water, it would kill you? Bzzzzz! Wrong. Plenty of chlorine in water, doesn't kill us. Also, we don't breathe pure oxygen, air has carbon monoxide, CO2, etc that would kill you but in small amounts and in combination with other gasses, no prob. Look at the ingredients in the next package of food you go to eat. I betcha a million bucks there's one or two things on there that would kill you if you had them pure. Its all about the dilution and ratio. Conclusion, someone who dismisses the idea as pure idiocy is just as idiotic as the person who accepts it as gospel truth. Do a little research before you are so sure you have the answer! - vdub12, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1dhughes: that's not exactly true. Better gas can increase power. It all depends on the car. The gas they make now a days is cheap and harmfully to motors on its own. Better gas can have a powerful affect on your horsepower. In fact in the heat we are having here in California you will get better mileage and performance going to Chevron then you will going to Wall Mart. In fact my 95 Mazda misses really bad in the heat with Wall Mart gas.
- bccThis, on 08/19/2008, -0/+1GCL, you should have looked at what's right on their home page before:
"We do not recommend this product for cleaning of rubber or plastic parts. Any non-metal cleaning needs should be tested prior to actual cleaning to check for compatibility..."
HOWEVER, only the float valves in the carburetor have rubber parts in it. A diluted acetone mixture (as recommended as a fuel additive, 1-3 ounces per 10 gallons of fuel) should not degrade the engine. - das7282, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2vdub12: "In fact in the heat we are having here in California you will get better mileage and performance going to Chevron then you will going to Wall Mart. In fact my 95 Mazda misses really bad in the heat with Wall Mart gas."
Here's a quote from this link...
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=939056&page=2
"Are the well-known national brands better than the no-name brands, which are usually cheaper?
People we spoke to gave similar reasons for buying name-brand gasoline that they gave for buying high-octane gas. They believed the national brands were higher quality, and better for their cars.
But they may not know that all the gas, brand name and generic, comes from the same refineries. Brand names do use different additives, but it doesn't make them better for your car."
Here's another example of what I'm talking about...
1. In Houston, Texas All the major oil companies have refineries (Shell, Chevron, Exxon/Mobil, etc...).
2. In Chicago, Ill all the major oil companies has fuel distribution centers (where the gas is pumped into trucks and sent out for deliveries).
3. Connecting the refineries to the distribution centers is one HUGE pipeline. All the Major oil companies own and use this one pipeline. (They all got together to build it so they each didn't have to spend millions building their own... Ya know, to save cost.)
4. This pipeline (that is over a thousand miles long) holds billions of gallons of gas and all the refineries adds gas to it. So not only is the gas being (some what) mixed in the pipeline, there is also no guaranty that when (lets say) Shell pumps a couple million gallons of gas into the pipeline, they are getting Shell gas out the other end in Chicago. They could be getting Chevron gas or Exxon/Mobil gas. Do ya get the picture?
5. I'm sure there is also a similar pipeline that goes out west to California so the same thing is happening.
6. Most "generic" gas if refined by the "American Oil Company" and they too have refineries in Houston and they too use the pipeline(s). - dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 Seems fishy to me. Nitrous Oxide boosts oxygen in the fuel, that I get. Acetone? I'd research it more first.
Be careful of the heat, you could burn a hole in the top of your cylinders. Your spark plugs probably won't tolerate the additional heat either.
The part of the article that is suspicious is " increased power ". The engine's compression ratio increases power, not the fuel used. - thecapitalizt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This sounds a lot like an urban legend here, with several people saying that it does work, and some that it can't. I guess we'll have to wait for a mythbusters special on it.
- griz, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Agreed, an update would be nice.
- Rhomboid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2One of the biggest factors in mileage is the way that you drive: how fast you accelerate, and what speed you cruise on the highway. Studies have also shown that psychologically people want these sorts of hair-brain things to work, so they subconsciously drive slower and accelerate more gently. You may in fact see improved mileage after adding [whatever product] to your tank, but it's because you're driving changes, not because of the additive. Let me know when you have a scientific study to back up any of these claims.
Plus, let us consider something. If a capful of acetone per tank really did give a noticeable improvement in mileage and had no ill effects, don't you think someone would start selling gas with that additive included? You could say that the oil companies want your mileage to be lower so they can sell you more gas, but all it would take would be one company or even one station to "jump ship" and offer the better formulation and then everyone would demand it. If it really was effective it would be in gas already. Oil companies have spent literally billions of dollars researching the formulation of gas over the last century, and if there was a way to make it better they probably would have found it about 50 years ago. - MagnusDieb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Gosh I love idiot statements. I've dealt with these kind for a while. There are things that can increase your gas mileage. Simple fact... I read an article in a Popular Hot Rodding magazine in 1979. It showed was to improve gas mileage in your gas guzzling V8. I tried most of what they said. FACT: My mileage in my 1967 Plymouth Fury III with the 383 PI went from 8 MPG at 50-55 mph to 27 MPG at 50-55. FACT: I put a tornado in my 1993 Ford Taurus SHO, my mileage jumped from 17 MPG to 21 MPG. I created a straight tube out of PVC for my 1983 Toyota Supra, which everyone said would not work and I needed to purchase a custom made tube for 200$. My mileage jumped from 21 MPG to 24 MPG, also the throttle response jumped and I gained an addition 5mph on a speed test. In 1936 there was a carburetor that was designed and placed on a 1935 Ford model T. This carburetor heated the fuel up and help to vaporize the fuel before it was ignited in the combustion chamber. This carburetor achieved 205 mpg. There is still information about this floating around the Internet. I believe that an oil company in Canada purchased the patent for it. Obviously it was buried. Someone mentioned using Slick 50, I've been using that product and others like if for years, and have never had and engine ruined nor an oil filter clog up on me. Of course I also change my oil and filter when recommended. Could acetone cause an engine to burn more efficiently? Of course it's possible, there are people out that that have claimed to have done it. Will it melt your gas tank? in it's purest form, I can see it the possibility of it harming your engine. But in the proper mixtures, I don't see it happening. Acetone will eat rubber, that's a fact. All the cans of acetone that I used to clean carburetors have a warning on them to make sure that you remove all plastic and rubber before dunking the parts in. But then we are not talking about running on engines on pure acetone. I will indeed be trying this in one of my 3 cars, probably my SHO which has a really good knock sensor and can run any gasoline regardless of how cheap or how much octane it has. Just to note to the person that said that octane doesn't matter, please tell that to my 1996 Ford Crown Victoria, which runs like crap on anything short of high octane fuel.
There are better ways, but until the oil runs out, we are stuck with the little things we can do to create gas mileage. BTW people have created billion dollar companies just creating things in their garage, don't believe me, look up the name Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. - chevyn8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The majority of mileage claims from fuel additives IMO come from wishful thinking, and driving like you want the mileage to increase. Such a small amount of acetone probably won't hurt anything, and probably won't help much either. 27 to 42 mpg increase, yeah right. Drive less, drive nicer, and drive slower....that will save you some money at the pump.
- yevon7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ummm... you are an engineer, not a chemical expert. acetone comes in a ***** plastic bottle. If they sell it this way im guessing that is wont burn through your gas tank, no less a plastic bottle. jackass, quit trying to make your job apply to unrelated fields.
Hi! I work at a candy factory! ... Acetone is bad, I would know! dee, dee, dee... - castufari, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1THIS WORKS!
I added this to my gas after installing a Turbonator in my intake, my mileage has gone up SO MUCH that I am SELLING GAS BACK TO THE COMPANIES. - SuperRob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Get your gas someplace cheap, then throw a bottle of Techron in there once in a while.
- Strahd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Aphro499, your human body analogy is a bad one.
For every trace ingriedient you add to your body that won't kill you in small amounts, I can name 5 that will kill you or make you extremely sick. Various snake, spider and insect venoms (see the black mamba snake, where 2 drops of its venom will kill a person), plant excretions, and man-made chemicals will kill you even in the most minute amounts.
Additionally, there are people with severe allergies to something as mundane as peanuts or milk. These are relatively rare, but not unheard of.
Yes concentrations of chemicals can change the outcome quite a bit. But to say of every chemical or biological agent that "a little bit won't hurt", is foolhardy.
It's amazing to me how many people on the internet fancy themselves chemical or biological experts. Perhaps next time you should endeavour to research some things yourself, hmm? - tmanka, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Sorry car talk "click and clack" guys say its a no go
http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/2006/January/08.html - rtsp, on 04/21/2008, -0/+0Snopes doesn't show any kind of testing or scientific proof of this. Seems they only give an unconfirmed opinion. Oh, thanks for the information about acetone and plastic, I'll keep watch on the plastic container the acetone I bought came in.
- Dipstick101, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Maybe if you are so concerned about your paint job you should not spill any on it. I have used acetone for 5 tank fills in my 2004 grand am (3.4L V6) and went from 24MPG to 27-28MPG (full tank MPG's alternating for 300+ miles (acetone only went over 300 miles on tank) per tank, 2 tanks min. each and 70 miles to work each day. Even if my perception of more horsepower, OH YEAH, is wrong. Even if the added horsepower is mental, the added 40+miles I get in my 12 gallon tank are worth it ! ! ! ! ! Exxon 10+ Billion per 1/4? Maybe they don't want us to know? The next thing you know, no one will believe that Microsoft can be improved?
- MBigDaddyM, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0It's been 2 years since you posted this, how is your mileage, have you had any issues with the fuel system because the acetone ate away at it? How about an update. -BD
- FairTaxman, on 07/02/2008, -0/+0on 10/12/2007 das7282 said - "1. Acetone will eat most plastics and synthetic rubbers. I know, I use to work at a plastics factory and one of the tests we use to perform on our plastic was to soak it in acetone to see how the plastic broke down over time ("how" it broke down was very important to QC.) Most seals in your fuel system are made of synthetic rubbers like around your fuel pump and sending unit in your tank, any rubber fuel lines and your seals around you injectors. And lets not even mention that most of the injector's body is made of plastic!."
das7282 -
I used to work in QC and manufacturing in a plant that produced piezoelectric ceramic elements used in motion-sensor devices, underwater acoustic mapping devices by Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, and alarm elements used in watches among other applications.
We used some rather harsh chemicals to clean the finished products to remove any contaminants from the surfaces such as oils, dust, etc. For grins and giggles we would take a rubber band and drop it in the chemical bath and watch it expand to as much as 10 times its normal size! However; that was a 100% pure solution of the chemical.
I have been testing acetone in my 91 Ford Escort wagon for about a year now. I did bench mark driving tests without acetone in both city and highway environments to get a baseline average MPG.
I then began adding fractional percentages of acetone to the tank and driving the same routes under the same conditions for both city and highways runs. I first added 1 oz. per 10 gallons of fuel and documented the results; which with 1 oz. was zero improvement. I then added 2 oz. per 10 gallons and did the same documentation. This time I consistently achieved from 10 to 15% improvement in average MPG. I then increased the amount to 3 oz. per 10 gallons and discovered that my MPG actually went down; though I did notice an improvement in performance.
Since then I have been adding 2 oz. each time I fill ( adding the acetone first to achieve a complete blend) with around 10 gallons of 87 octane gas. At just a 10 percent improvement I am saving around 40 cents per gallon of gas at the $4.009 per gallon price. Therefor; I am effectively only paying around $3.60 per gallon. This is not a huge improvement; but even with the cost of the acetone per treatment I'm still reducing my fuel costs. Bye the way; I purchase "pure" acetone in the gallon can for the better price per ounce.
I'm not sure just how much acetone some of these folks are visualizing adding to the gas tank; but, if I have the percentage correct, at .0002% solution per ( 2oz. per 10 gallons) that level of acetone being able to cause any derogatory effect on parts in the fuel system would be negligible to nonexistent. Just witness the percentages of "toluene", "naphthalene", " and other petroleum distillate(s) and trade secret formula chemical additives in "off the shelf" gas treatments. Some of them comprise > 20% of the total volume!
Any thoughts? - MrIncredible, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I've seen a link like this before, not sure if it is the same one, but I've read somewhere that closed user experiments with acetone and fuel result in degradation of the fuel lines which the mixture passes.
- Solovus, on 10/31/2007, -0/+0The car talk guys make a good point...even though you may be diluting the acetone -after- it gets to the fuel tank, you are still exposing the connecting portions between the fuel tank and the fuel cap to pure acetone. I agree that the diluted stuff is likely worthless as a solvent, but how do you get past the problem of the connecting line between the tank and fuel cap?
- dutchie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Now I know why such an incredible amount of $$$ is spent on military. "Most" of you Americans are so paranoid of "new" and "unknown"thing. I mean cold war, terrorists, acetone. Need go on??
Only 2 particles on 1000 particles is needed to get more then 10% better mileage. Km's. where I come from. Quit bitching about fuel lines and rubber valves. The heat, usual wear and tear are way more harmful to your car then these percentages of acetone. With the money saved over years a couple off fuel lines and rubber o-rings cost next to nothing.
Quit whining about fuel prices as well you pussies. In the Netherlands you pay $ 6.50 for a gallon. Get a better job, drive less or use acetone. ;-) - bigdatapimp, on 03/18/2009, -0/+0Since Gasoline will dissolve more things than acetone (including paint), I doubt that anything that is not damaged by gasoline will be damaged by acetone. Gasoline will eat asphalt, grease, many plastics, and just like hundreds of thousands of other substances will oxidize many metals. also carb/intake cleaner contains much harsher chemicals than acetone, and they do not dissolve any automotive plastics/rubbers.
As far as the actual benefits of adding acetone to your gas, I do not know as of yet. But as far as it causing severe damage by adding minuscule amounts of acetone to gas, seems much more far fetched than getting better mileage from it. - The100thMonkey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Where do some of these people come from?
"Acetone eats rubber and silicone. Joints and fittings in an engine are made of rubber and silicone. Enough said."
Joints and fittings in a car? Are you a freakin' plumber? You are talking diluting the acetone at 640:1. There is no way on earth the acetone will even act as a solvent anymore at that dilution. And for acetone to disolve anything, it must be left in contact for quite a while.
"Slick 50 clogs oil filters"
Really now? In fact many oil filter companies have a performance filter which contains PTFE. No need for an additive, just screw on a filter and the filter will add the PTFE for you. Sounds like you need to quit hanging out with Miss Information. - The100thMonkey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"eats through rubber and plastic"
Well there's a broad statement. There are dozens of different rubbers and plastics, care to explain further? Do you even know what kind of materials are used within an engine's fuel system? I didn't think so. - JasonEC, on 02/10/2008, -0/+0AHEM
The 1936 Pogue Carburettor hoax
http://www.snopes.com/autos/bu...r.asp
Acetone in fuel myth
http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/acetone.asp
Fred Rau's article on "Snake Oil" additives (regarding Slick 50), must read for any gearheads
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/snakeoil.htm - mars3554, on 06/13/2009, -0/+0I'm surprised nobody has brought up flex fuel vehicles since most newer vehicles support E85 which dissolves normal fuel lines, I would argue anything that is E85 ready can handle quite a bit of acetone. However, running LARGE amounts of acetone will mess with your stock tune and might throw a code but I seriously doubt acetone alone will contaminate your O2 sensor.
- nobrainer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"And for those who say the oil companies would have added it years ago if acetone works as claimed, I would like to know what Utopian plane you live on. At best large corporations are resistant to change. The use of anything not refined by them (acetone is a fermentation and pulp/paper processing byproduct) would mean an oil company would have to depend on another company or market for an additive. Sorry, not likely to win over the Exxon board of directors with that one."
Acetone is a byproduct of many things. But most is manufactured from cumene, which is a component of crude oil. Shell and Sunoco make about half of the acetone in the country.
h*ttp://neubranderinc.com/blog/2007/01/21/why-big-oil-fears-acetone/ - radioactive1956, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I've just started using acetone in my 2005 Acura RSX type S and all I can say is that it does make the car feel more powerful and I did see an increase in gas mileage. I went from about 32 highway to 48 by using acetone and by slightly increasing the air pressure in the tires. I also started using Amzoil lubricant and I took out the spare tire and jack. I increased my air pressure in the tires to 38 PSI and put in a K&N air filter system. Some of the comments on this site are pretty ignorant. Putting 3 to 5 ounces of acetone in a gas tank that holds 10 to 15 gallons is not going to do any damage. There are 128 ounces in a gallon. If you have a ten gallon tank, then the ratio is 3 to 1280 or .00234375 percent acetone to gas. That is a very small percentage. I would like to find out if anyone has done any testing with diesel VW Pasats. I am planning on getting a 2008 when they are available and would like to try acetone in that tank.
- soldier9599, on 05/09/2009, -0/+0There are a number of things that will make your engine misfire, and there are a number of benefits of using particular brands of gasoline, but the two are completely unrelated. Using a different OCTANE can be beneficial, but the different detergents and such added by the more expensive gasoline companies will never have any kind of impact on a misfiring engine. This post is full of misinformation, ridiculous hyperbole, and logical fallacy.
- mars3554, on 06/13/2009, -0/+0You're almost there. The reason high compression requires higher octane is knock. The higher the octane, the more resistant your engine is to knock and thus the more ignition advance you can add and the more power. That said, if you are adding ignition advance and messing with vtec or vanos (or any variable cam technology) it's good to have knock resistant fuel for tuning.
- yevon7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well, the oil companies are paying to keep it secret. If people get better mileage, then you buy less gas. If you buy less gas, then they make less money. They want you to get the ***** mileage possible so that they make more $$$.
- Solovus, on 10/31/2007, -0/+0If this carburetor was developed in 1936...then the patent term has expired and its fair game in the US under current patent policies.
- mezhopking, on 11/02/2007, -0/+0I am going to give this a go. I'm not going to sit on any side of the fence until I've tried and tested it. Those of you who jump to conclusions, be it pro or con, without any scientific proof (ie. using the scientific method to test and observe), are in my mind Philistines. How can you infer anything, without providing any evidence that you have tested it... anyway, rant over. It's just that stupidity really winds me up :)
@Solovus... Perhaps adding the acetone immediately BEFORE filling up might be a good idea don't you think? That way the fuel you add immediately after would wash the acetone down into the tank, and thus preventing it sitting there to cause damage?
Come on people, please only comment here if you have tried and tested it! Oh, and perhaps after you've used your brains to think... - soldier9599, on 05/09/2009, -0/+0You're right, but there are a number of cars, especially modern performance cars, that will actually perform better with higher octane than suggested. Plus, what does this really have to do with the question at hand?
- AuJus10, on 05/06/2008, -0/+0Anybody notice who the cartalk guys asked!? A major oil company employee...OF COURSE THEY'LL DENY IT!
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