What is Digg?117 Comments
- Hercules, on 09/30/2008, -6/+101Even more for the best IDE on the market.
Yes folks I said it... Microsoft makes the best developer tools. Hands down.
Now I'll be dugg down by the Apple/*nix fanatics. - DigSomeMore, on 09/29/2008, -2/+38This should help with support
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -2/+35great!...i hate typing detailed info on bugs...especially when i want to go to bed...
- dbxz, on 09/30/2008, -1/+30this feature is for internal development and testing purposes... it is unlikely that you will ever see final software releases with it enabled
- melonhedd, on 09/30/2008, -3/+30What? VS is leaps and bounds above every other IDE available, including free ones.
- weiran, on 09/30/2008, -1/+23Indeed it is.
Eclipse is a close second best but I much prefer the way VS does a few key things and the slick integration between VS and SQL Server. - Tyfud, on 09/30/2008, -1/+18Agreed. As a professional developer, VS is the best IDE out there.
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -7/+22It is actually very good. The only good piece of Microsoft software there is (the rest is garbage) IMO.
- webcrumb, on 09/30/2008, -2/+16You can get the Express editions for free. Not sure what they allow for under their licence, but hey, it's a good starting point.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/express/ - divinediva, on 09/29/2008, -10/+22Sounds more like oversight of privatized space ventures..
- Kamujin, on 09/30/2008, -2/+14Really? Lets hear your list. (If it includes Eclipse and/or X-Code just save some face and don't respond.)
- jeffyjones, on 09/30/2008, -0/+11I dig it as well, in particular because the debugging is so good. I've mostly just tinkered with other IDE's and platforms, but I'm frustrated by less robust debugging. That, and Intellisense makes life infinitely easier.
- CosmicJustice, on 09/30/2008, -1/+12Did you even read the article?
- minorgods, on 09/30/2008, -0/+11I was originally going to bitch about having something constantly recording a system (memory, privacy, blah blah) then I read the article...
now all I have is... Damn.. that's pretty slick... - bpoteat, on 09/30/2008, -2/+12As much as you may dislike Microsoft and many of their sub-par applications, VS is not one of them. It is the best IDE available. If you have used it and other IDEs, the capabilities it provides and its general workflow is dominant - there is no close 2nd.
- rameznabel, on 09/30/2008, -0/+10Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers
i'm Sweating - sadilak, on 09/30/2008, -1/+11ouch. That is a lie. Visual Studio is by far the best IDE out there. I mean since VS 4.0 or 5.0, no other IDE has even come close to it in terms of developer friendliness. in terms of RAD, by the time you complete 1 php page in Eclipse or Netbeans or XCode, you could have completed 10 pages with AJAX and CSS and everything built into it.
- dokeshi, on 09/30/2008, -1/+9Is this only part of the Team System version, though, or will Professional have it as well?
- simquad, on 09/30/2008, -0/+8Bad programming habits? nah, at the end of the day you (not you personally but in a plural-programmer-collective sense) are the one who codes what happens, the IDE just makes some of that coding easier for you
- TheNik, on 09/30/2008, -2/+9Well it's true, but Xcode is free. :P
- Kamujin, on 09/30/2008, -1/+8Lets analyze your arguement
Point 1) No having to build before you deploy/debug.
Wrong! Visual Studio has long standing support for edit and continue. I'd love to see you deploy your new c/c++ server without compiling the code. Now if we're talking about web pages, then you might as well just shut up now. The adults are talking about real programming tasks, not basic web forums.
Point 2) People who use VS are only using it because their college makes them.
Wrong! In the real world where people actually get paid to write code. VS is the dominant IDE.
Point 3) Watch a Netbeans screencast, but DON'T watch a VS demo.
Wrong! Do I need to explain this any more? - Mufaka, on 09/30/2008, -0/+6Care to elaborate? It sounds more like your high school taught you bad programming habits.
- inactive, on 09/30/2008, -1/+7sql server
- crownedgriffin, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6Did you actually RTFA?
- carboncopy77, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6I used to use a keyboard logger & screen capture software that would maintain almost 5 days worth of data for this same type of thing. We had many reports of the users selection not being recorded for overtime signup, and job postings. It turned out that 98 / 100 times there was a 'it just didn't work', it was the user forgot before the allowable time was up, and thought they could beat the system (it was a CAW shop if it matters any).. Unfortunately when SOX came into play, they killed this setup, and we ended up creating a huge audit log of everything that happened.. Anyway, this will be nice to have built in finally.
- ThirdPrize, on 09/30/2008, -2/+7Nothing like it.
- sadilak, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5Yeah, I am doing the first Visual Studio 2008 app for my corp out here. But you will be surprised as to how fast corporations are accepting the change. I work for one of the world's top 5 banks and they are already in Sharepoint 2007, office 2007 and SQL Server 2005(2008 in testing). Not to forget that they also have the latest exchange server. The funniest part about my previous project was that we moved away from open source to IIS and MS technologies.
- Yazilliclick, on 09/30/2008, -1/+6How exactly does the IDE promote bad programming habits? Can you list any at all? Nope? Didn't think so.
- Mufaka, on 09/30/2008, -0/+5XCode is decent at best, but it is nowhere near Eclipse or VS.
The GUI / GDB integration is nice and so are the performance profiling tools. Code completion, Interface Builder not so much compared to VS and Eclipse. - andycr512, on 09/30/2008, -0/+4For .NET, yes. For straight C/C++ development, I find Eclipse to be far superior, even when using Windows. It has "IntelliSense" that actually works 100% of the time, better code completion, hippie completion (odd name; try typing part of a variable name and press Alt+/ to cycle through options), the best SVN integration I've -ever- seen (no VC++ plugin comes close, and TortoiseSVN is a joke compared to Subversive), open files with the keyboard only (I get so tired of mousing through the project view in VC++ when in Eclipse it's as simple as pressing Ctrl+Shift+R and typing part of the filename), etc. etc.
On the plus side, Visual C++'s debugger is far better than the GDB integration Eclipse provides. That's why when I am on Windows, I edit in Eclipse, then Alt-Tab into VC++ to compile, run, and debug. It may seem redundant, but it works well, and I truly dislike Visual C++ for development, for all it's quirks and lacking features. - ripple123, on 09/30/2008, -1/+5i know you think that if you put some words that seem funny together and add lots of exclamation marks, you may think you have a joke. well. im sorry. you dont. you just have failure. just unending, tragic, failure. you, sir, are fit only for the job of taking all the straight dog poos, and twisting them into their little coils.
- kaniz, on 09/30/2008, -2/+6Uh, what? I love working in Visual Studio. While other Microsoft products are lacking, I spend a better chunk of my work-day in Visual Studio and really enjoy it. I've tried other IDE's before and they generally leave me wishing "I wish I could...."
On the other hand, I also work extensively with Microsoft technologies - .NET/etc, and as an environment for that, its great. - enterneo, on 09/30/2008, -2/+5Microsoft Visual Studio is a class apart IDE - proving it in each iteration!
- stuffradio, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3Looks like I have to stay in school a few more years so I can get the Pro version for free too! :P
- zmedico, on 09/30/2008, -3/+6It's an enhanced core dump.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_dump - inactive, on 09/30/2008, -6/+9Damnit Microsoft SLOW DOWN. Let us migrate to 2k8 before you guys start pushing out 2k10
- eyesee360, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3I have to say that while XCode can stand to have some improvements as an IDE, the suite of development tools in the box from Apple are hard to beat.
I can't imagine how much time I could have saved if I had Instruments, DTrace, malloc_debug, sampler, OpenGL Profiler, etc. available to me on Windows. I can't even find comparable tools to buy, let alone that are standard. - Mufaka, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3Haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hadxBZWxNrs - Blandyman, on 09/30/2008, -1/+4AmaDaden:
It will most likely only run in software compiled in debug mode.
On top of that, no one cares about your faith in Windows developers... a lot of them are smart people and don't make mistakes. It's when you have so many people working on things that it gets complicated and one mistake gets through.
Then again, I'm sure you're either a Mac user or a Linux user. And you're much better than Windows users. - jakem1, on 09/30/2008, -1/+4Maybe not mind-blowing but it's often the simplest ideas that make the biggest difference. It can be really frustrating and time-consuming trying to track down a bug that can't be reproduced and anything that helps out with that is welcome.
- JasonHofmann, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3This MS feature is designed for use only in QA, but BMC APR (formerly Identify AppSight) does everything that this proposed addition does and more. It can be used in production (support) and it records much more than just what the user saw and their PC's configuration, in fact it goes down to the code:
"BMC Black Box: Like a “black box” flight recorder for your software"
http://www.identify.com/products/bbx.php
In the interest of full disclosure, I have worked for this company and with this product since 2005. - Hercules, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3You're not exactly comparing native to native on that, but I will agree with you that for straight C/C++ VS isn't probably the best IDE. But if you compare Eclipse's capability to C/C++ to VS's capability for .NET, there is a nod in favor of the MS IDE.
Granted if you don't do .NET, it doesn't benefit you, but it also doesn't make it a bad IDE. - justncase80, on 09/30/2008, -0/+3XNA 3.0 (beta) runs in 2008.
http://creators.xna.com/en-us/3.0beta_mainpage - andycr512, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2"But if you compare Eclipse's capability to C/C++ to VS's capability for .NET, there is a nod in favor of the MS IDE."
I suppose so, but that's really apples to oranges since .NET is an entire set of API's languages can use while C++ is just a language with a very simple standard API.
"Granted if you don't do .NET, it doesn't benefit you, but it also doesn't make it a bad IDE."
Not bad, but certainly odd and unstable in areas. I'm puzzled as to why IntelliSense kills itself on a daily basis, only to come back at unpredictable times before vanishing for another day. With Eclipse, I can type std::st(Ctrl+Space) and know that I will get string every time, no matter what, but with VC++ I can't rely on it - it depends on its mood at the time. I'm annoyed that there aren't enough keyboard shortcuts to use the IDE without touching the mouse. It seems that Visual Studio focuses so much on .NET languages and frameworks that it entirely fails at a simpler language with a simple API. I have no interest in .NET. I prefer to keep my programs cross-platform. Perhaps I'm not the target of VS, but I certainly know that many cross-platform developers used to prefer VC++ for daily development, lamenting that it had no match on Linux (which was more or less true until a couple years ago). It seems strange that it's gone so far downhill. - ZippyV, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2Microsoft know about the lack of love for Visual C++ and they are addressing this problem.
- stuffradio, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2He's trying to find any way possible to bash M$ lol
- patm1987, on 09/30/2008, -0/+2The Express editions are nice, but don't support native application programming without manually installing the "Platform SDK" (really not much of an issue) and don't support mixed-language solutions. If you're like me you like to write speed critical sections in C++ and write frontends and logic in C#, and this makes debugging a real pain. This is why I code mostly in Visual Studio Pro even if I would have more leniency with program distribution if I used the express editions.
- avidlinuxuser, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2I know thy pain. Looking at VB6 code is all kinds of pain. No VB6 is really what you would call 'good'. However, I have seen VB6 code that is probably the worst code I've ever sees.
- robbob, on 09/30/2008, -0/+1Aircraft "black boxes" aren't black
- jakem1, on 09/30/2008, -1/+2@bpoteat: Ummm, that's what dba's are for. Anyway, SQL Server is simple to get a setup in a basic config that can be developed against.
If you think SQL Server is a PITA try installing Oracle - it's like the DBMS that time forgot. -
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