What is Digg?326 Comments
- wontstoptalking, on 06/28/2008, -8/+123I give him credit for having the best mug shot EVER.
- Jenadae, on 06/28/2008, -14/+82I hereby declare that this comment thread shall not have any XP vs Vista bickering....
- doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -25/+76This list is massively full of fail. Point-by-point:
1) Windows being a big platform for developers: CP/M did it first. Anyone remember Wordstar or dBase II? Both were big successes and both were written for CP/M long, long before Windows was a twinkle in Billy's eyes. These were the first apps that actually put computers (before there were "PCs") in small businesses.
2) Two button mouse: The Amiga came out of the box with a two button mouse and an operating system that used it, back in 1985. Windows 3.0 didn't come out until 1990.
3) Software has value: Whined about it is more like it. Bill Gates ran a full-page add in Dr. Dobbs (if memory serves me correctly) whinging about everyone making copies of the paper-tape version BASIC. Given that he developed that product on univerity computer time and therefore the taxpayer's dollars, he should have STFU and enjoyed what ill-gotten gains he did wind up with. At any rate, Ashton/Tate was selling software and making money long before Billy Boy joined the game.
4) Fear creates innovation: This is so stupid it hardly deserves response. Why does the rabbit run faster than the fox? The fox is running for dinner. The rabbit is running for it's life. - Ganja420, on 06/28/2008, -33/+7835+ years and only 4 things?
- ConfusedCartman, on 06/28/2008, -30/+75Absolutely true. I love Windows and Mac for different reasons, but the fact that Microsoft takes much more ***** for their mistakes really does help drive the industry.
By the way, I love the two-button scroll mouse, but I have to say Apple's keyboards feel much better to the touch than most others. I love their sleek profile. - arjie, on 06/28/2008, -2/+41Ha ha, sort of relevant; I remember a long time ago, a Red Hat employee went to Nigeria (or some other African nation, though for the story it could well be my country India) and decided to see how much software was on the market and he noticed that Red Hat cost more than Windows XP because:
Windows XP: 1 CD
Red Hat: 3 CDs
The sad reality of the pirate market. - plr4ever, on 06/28/2008, -0/+32Windows 3.1 FTW!
- justinlarsen, on 06/28/2008, -3/+30Wrong, Xerox invented the mouse, Apple stole the idea, then MS shortly after.
- YodaJones, on 06/28/2008, -0/+23Looks like Gizmodo's technical prowess ends at Lego. You should stick with what you know. Buried.
- Spuy767, on 06/28/2008, -3/+25Bill English, working for Xerox, invented the first rolling mouse at PARC in 1972. Coincidentelly, this is where both Apple and microsoft got the idea for a GUI. And saying that Microsoft standardized the system wide UI is rubbish. Since the original Mac. Mac applications have had a more cohesive feel to their UI. This article may give some credit where it is due, but it seems to give a little too much.
- thomas, on 06/28/2008, -2/+24Number 2 is clearly bull. The Xerox Alto (1972) and the commercial version the Star 8010 (1981) both had multi button mice.
- doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -2/+22"No, you can't run it without a computer."
Now you tell me. I spent the better part of the week install Vista on my cat.
Kitty wasn't real happy about it, either. I guess I'm stuck with meowOS. - SOS84, on 06/28/2008, -8/+27Apple's input devices, to include both mouse and keyboards, are the worst in the business. I am not sure which one is worse. As with far too many things Apple, form trumps function at the consumers expense. I have a new iMac in my house right now, and was forced to buy a new keyboard (of course my wife insists that it matches) to replace the Apple unit because, while pretty, it is only good for web browsing. I chose an aluminum Enermax keyboard that looks nearly as good but is actually functional.
- atliberty2say, on 06/28/2008, -7/+26Bill Gates is Gandhi now, Vista really doesn't suck etc... Well thanks for hosting 'Billy Gates fest' Digg, I nearly stayed awake.
- jpqsat, on 06/28/2008, -11/+30Time require to install OS with every optimized drivers (including wifi.. ndiswrapper suck)
Linux: 2-3 hours (much more if you are noob to linux)
Vista: 45 minutes - Altotus, on 06/28/2008, -9/+28They had nothing to do with the 2-button mouse and scroll wheels, or the activate/option pattern for clicks (which had already been in use elsewhere for years by the time they caught up).
Creating a common platform that "anyone can write for" is a little misleading; they became the dominant platform mostly through good marketing staff, buying out competitors, and good old fashion underhanded business tactics. This way, they could eschew industry standards entirely, keep much of the product's APIs hidden, break compatibility to force upgrades, etc. This isn't so much innovation but a sad twist of fate.
They did take software as a service and turn the concept into software as a standalone product. To do so, they had to also pay to have others invent DRM, copy controls, and form their own corporate policing agency (the Business Software Alliance). Ironically, it's particularly the companies that reject that model are making the most money today.
The last point is the most true: by being evil, they spur people to be better; by eschewing standards and releasing schizophrenic products, they highlight how important standards are; in being closed and secretive, they show the importance of being open, etc.
If there's ANYTHING Microsoft deserves credit for, it's demonstrating just how far you can get if you squeeze every last bit out of you marketing and legal departments and have them wok together. - doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -6/+24....which is the stupidest, least efficient and most error-prone file system I have ever had the misfortune to use.
No - wait - I take that back. There was an operating system for the Ohio Scientific Challenger III that required you keep a listing of the floppy on a piece of paper, track by track. That was, admittedly a bit more annoying than FAT.
NTFS is by comparison so much better that I refuse to believe MS actually created it. I'm positive IBM did the heaving lifting for that file system back when they and MS were developing OS/2 jointly. - nickbyfleet, on 06/28/2008, -2/+18Right,
linux - as an average consumer, I have installed on my desktop and spent hours trying to find the right drivers for my graphics card. On my laptop, the audio didn't work without doing some pretty intense patching in the command environment.
vista - works out of the box, saves me hours of pointless searching for drivers and means I am using the exact same OS as all of my customers.
Anyway, its not even true, there are so many distros out there now that you have to pay for, take SUSE for instance. Anyway, I know this comment is going to get buried, but the fact remains that we are in a free market and the consumer has chosen MS, who are you to argue with the status quo? - doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -0/+16The Amiga OS used a two button mose in 1985. Win 3.0 didn't come out until 1990. No innovation here. At least, not by Microsoft.
- secrity, on 06/28/2008, -0/+15FAT16 was not chosen for technical merit, it was chosen because it is the least common denominator.
- jellygraph, on 06/28/2008, -18/+33Right.... I guess Gizmodo is going to be doing one of these for the Bush administration when they leave.... c'mon, Microsoft has done far more harm for the industry by having become the monopoly it is. It may have once been a good thing, but now its not
- crazyjake, on 06/28/2008, -23/+37from the comments: "I wish you guys would stop calling Vista crap."
i wish vista would stop being crap. - Fartag, on 06/28/2008, -6/+20Wow, that's going to be tough coming up with more things that MS has screwed up than made better!
A two button mouse that they really didn't invent (etc.) is tough to beat:
1) used an incredible number of anti-competitive tactics only partially shown in findings of fact here:
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
2) corrupted ISO to force the ridiculous OOXML as a standard because if officially adopted would make it impossible for 3rd party to implement.
3) used vague patent FUD threatening that Samba and some other OSS don't comply but never revealing it to dissuade people from using Linux
4) Making deals with Novell to legitimize the whole patent FUD thing getting them to sign a contract basically guaranteeing their safety (and Microsoft suspiciously paying them $348 million to "protect" them)
5) Funneled $86 million cash to SCO to use as a front corporation trying to tear Linux apart by ridiculous copyright claims.
6) This: http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.o ...
7) Some of these: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/29/exclusionary-d ...
8) Forcing closed standards, closed protocols, non-intercompatibility, proprietary protocols by strength of monopoly
9) Bought a license for CP/M, cloned it and sold it to IBM so BG got the contract and not Gary
Kildall, and forever thereafter attacking software copying, open source, and computer hobbyists
10) using embrace extend and extinguish tactics in numerous cases to destroy non-MS tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_e ... with some examples.
Now all pro-MS propaganda abhors facts so the safety of this post is in grave danger. - HardBap, on 06/28/2008, -1/+15"What else should we give credit to Msft under Bill's watch?"
Unless my history is wrong we can thank MS for Ajax. They developed the XmlHttpRequest and the first Ajax web app, Outlook Web Access. - doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -0/+14You're right, but you forgot DOS, which is what put Microsoft on the map in the first place. MS didn't write it, they bought it whole hog from Seattle Computer Products. And even then it was basically a knock-off of CP/M for the 8086 family.
- beermad, on 06/28/2008, -9/+23Remarkably few things to credit M$ with.
Could this be because most of what people think Microsoft created was either copied or bought in?
For example:
Windowing: copied from what people like Xerox were doing
Excel: bought in
Hotmail: bought in
Powerpoint: bought in
Three-fingered salute: copied from elsewhere, but certainly popularised by Microsoft. - hugolp, on 06/28/2008, -12/+25Is this some kind of joke?
Xerox invented the mouse and Ms added the second button... Wow? well, maybe not.
But the best part is: Microsoft's intimidation leads to innovation. (WTF)
I think that the guy who wrote this didnt like MS but had to wrote this anyways, so he made this crappy list. I am not a Windows user but it sounds imposible to me that MS only development worth to point out is as ridicule as putting a second button on the mouse. - Murdats, on 06/28/2008, -2/+15neither of my comptuers have a vista sticker, as my laptop was prevista and my desktop is built by me, but I used my super uber hax on both to make vista think the sticker was really there.
- mithrasinvictus, on 06/28/2008, -10/+231: the standard would have become a unix derivative otherwise ( /earlier )
2: i'll give them the mouse button
3: End users rarely pay for their os. They were forced to pay the microsoft tax on their hardware. (don't believe me? ask 10 random persons how much they paid for windows)
4: Microsoft killed their competition and subsequently stopped progress on their browser. Are they seriously attributing mozilla's succes to microsoft? - Murdats, on 06/28/2008, -10/+22you have got your symbols back to front
windows 2000 ≤ xp < vista - srg13, on 06/28/2008, -4/+16"but the world has voted with their dollars to make Microsoft the biggest and most profitable technology company."
When? Last I heard, it was Microsoft's deal with IBM that let them become a de-facto 'standard' in the industry. Then they marketed themselves to the clones, and eventually got a stranglehold on the OEM market...
Microsoft has only ever been on anybody's computer because of the business dealings they had with hardware companies... Never because they were competitive or had a better product at all. - srg13, on 06/28/2008, -0/+12"Could this be because most of what people think Microsoft created was either copied or bought in?"
Some people I know (with remarkably less knowledge about computers than most digg users) even think that Microsoft did things like 'invent the internet' and other ridiculous things like that.
But nothing could be further from the truth - they grabbed the TCP stack from BSD after the internet 'unexpectedly' (to them at least) caught on... - digitalpencil, on 06/28/2008, -0/+12the mouse was a leap forward, adding a second button to it.. not really
although i'll side with the author in that apple's mouse philosophy is ***** retarded. Take the mighty mouse, it's about as ergonomic as a hedgehog, the 3d scroll wheel's ***** stupid, the 'right click' doesn't work cause you have to lift you're finger off the left before it knows what the ***** just happened... i cannot, for the life of me understand why they haven't released one good mouse.. ever?!? that yo-yo mouse is the most ***** ridiculous thing i've ever used and they've only got marginally better. - Spuy767, on 06/28/2008, -4/+16Agreed, this list is lamer than FDR's legs.
Too soon? - thedp, on 06/28/2008, -5/+16I've never read a such a huge pile of ***** in my whole life.
The only true part there was the "4. Microsoft's intimidation leads to innovation".
The writer is either on Microsoft's payroll or is high on grass; Either way, stop writing *****! - Karmavs, on 06/28/2008, -3/+14“Can you run windows right "out of the box" without any third party stuff?”
No, you can't run it without a computer. - doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -3/+14Given what I've read of Gate's interpersonal skills - telling programmers that they were stupid and their code sucked - I'd rather work for a *****-flinging ape than him.
- Julik, on 06/28/2008, -0/+11The article was not a list of Microsoft accomplishments, it was just a few major steps the technology industry has taken that Microsoft helped.
The one about paying for software.. Microsoft did not invent paying for software. But they showed a lot of people who were not familiar with it why paying for software is beneficial for them. There are hundreds of companies out there now selling software to people and companies around the world because paying for software is just what (most) people do now.
It is just about how Microsoft being as big and as popular as they are they were able to expose a large number of people to things like the 2 button mouse... - CCmachined, on 06/28/2008, -8/+19i hereby declare the Vista vs. Linux war in this thread.
Linux: One $0.10 CD
Vista: One $100 DVD
i dare you to comment ;) - notoneofus, on 06/28/2008, -0/+11Actually, Doug Engelbart invented the mouse at Stanford, and they licensed it to Apple.
Therefore, with its two-button/scrollwheel, Microsoft didn't invent the mouse, but enhanced the mouse. - doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -0/+10Punch cards! Don't need no steenin screen.
- nbulp, on 06/28/2008, -3/+13Sir Alexander Fleming + penicillin + accident = Nobel prize.
- krusade, on 06/28/2008, -5/+15A lot of stories on Digg lately about how microsoft and Bill are god's gift to mankind. And how we should all give credit and be thankful. Surprisingly these stories get commented by a lot of grateful ms users. I smell a huge astroturf effort. It's either that or people are so gullible they deserve to be bent over and screwed.
- bono4u, on 06/28/2008, -13/+23How much more advertising is a monopolist corporate firm getting here on digg?
They got rich, they control the OS market isn't that credit enough?
Do i have to hug them now or what? - doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -3/+12@stupidStan:
Ok, how about creating an email reader with a built-in scripting language. Now email, POP3, SMTP and all that fun stuff had been around for a long time, and no one ever thought "Hey! Let's create an email program that will accept commands from any random ***** on the planet that happens to stumble on our address, and execute those commands as though they were the word of God himself, thus flooding the internets with GIANT STEAMING ***** OF MALWARE! Yes! I see the future!"
There's inno-*****-vation for ya.Truly, it takes a Microsoft to have that kind of vision.
/rant - PhireN, on 06/28/2008, -0/+9Pics of Alto's mouse:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/alto-m ...
It was apple who cut it down to one mouse button, not microsoft who added a button. - h0m3styl3, on 06/28/2008, -2/+11@evilgourmet have you ever actually used vista?
ps - beagle and many other linux desktop search programs do the exact same thing. - Spuy767, on 06/28/2008, -0/+9@ravatar: You mean turnover rate? Turnaround would be the time between the placement of an order and its fullfillment. That is NOT notoriously low at microsoft. You must mean turnover, the rate at which employes jump ***** because they can't ***** take it any more.
- 2Deluxe, on 06/28/2008, -5/+13Personally, I quite like Vista. I've not had any problems at all. I don't enjoy going back to XP.
Each to their own. - doctechnical, on 06/28/2008, -0/+8"The turnaround rate for developers at Microsoft is notoriously low."
Kind of like the post office, and I'm guessing for largely the same reasons. -
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