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- NoTiG, on 10/10/2007, -11/+59Before the FUD starts spreading it might help to read Icaza's blog. http://tirania.org/blog/
This actually has the chance to be more open and less proprietary than flash. You will be able to use open formats for videos once it gets merged in... like ogg theora... ffmpeg etc.
This is exciting times IMO not to mention that you will be able to code in python with ironpython through moonlight.
Update: Some comments indicate that people would like to use GStreamer as the media backend (as GStreamer already has licensed codecs and some people might have purchased them already). We would be glad to merge any patches that people send us (copyright assignment required) to add support for GStreamer.
Update: Some folks are asking whether they could use OGG for the video rendering in Moonlight. Today this is already possible because the media engine we use to prototype is ffmpeg which has support for this. From the standpoint of a desktop developer this might be enough, but for the web, the problem becomes an issue of compatibility with the Microsoft Silverlight implementation. - ThinkFr33ly, on 10/10/2007, -12/+42Why? It's about a billion times better than Flash. It's faster, smaller, has a far more "open" layout engine (XAML), and has an open source implementation.
Oh, that's right, it's from Microsoft. It must be bad. - MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -8/+36Yes, because we all know what happens when someone (In this case Adobe) becomes king and begins to stagnate. Look what happened to IE.
This is a GOOD thing. Why don't you people realize that? - rprouse, on 10/10/2007, -4/+28Inaccurate, Silverlight 1.0 does not have Linux support. Microsoft is lending support to the Mono Moonlight project which will bring support to Linux, but that is a different (non-Microsoft and not Silverlight) project.
- Elranzer, on 10/10/2007, -4/+26It sounds like Moonlight is the open-source implementation of Silverlight, co-devloped by Microsoft themselves rather than reverse-engineered by a garage hacker. Seems to me like this will possibly cause it to trojan horse into territories which Adobe Flash has ignored, such as x64 operating systems and PowerPC Linux (or any non-x86 Linux). The fact that they're demonstrating it in Mac's Safari browser goes to further this.
Though I'm with all of you in thinking many of Microsoft's tactics are anti-competitive, but in this arena Adobe is king and it's time that Adobe's ironfist monopoly come to an end. Microsoft seems to do interesting things in some product lines when their's is NOT the leading, near-monopoly product. - gquaglia, on 10/10/2007, -26/+48Yeah, we'll see how long it lasts. Given MS past track record, they will release it for Windows, Mac and Linux initially and talk it up to get everyone to use it. Then In a few years, when everyone is using it instead of Flash, bang, they pull out the rug and drop the product for all except Windows. Or they will give the Windows version all the bells and whistles and leave the others to flounder to the point where they are unusable. Its been done before on the Mac platform with IE and Media Player. Everything MS does is to prop up its other products and lock users into the MS world.
- Gumboot, on 10/10/2007, -5/+26Got any examples of these platform-specific 'extensions'?
- CalipsoII, on 10/10/2007, -8/+26Silverlight has no users because it was just released. You have no idea what you are talking about in terms of what it is capable of as a developement platform, and it shows.
- Trevahaha, on 10/10/2007, -4/+19Silverlight does nothing new?? It brings many of the the .NET components into a cross-browser/cross-platform (mostly) environment. As a developer, this is great. It means you can reuse libraries that you write for a Winform or ASP.NET application in your Silverlight. It also is truely about separation of programming logic from UI. This means you can hand a graphic artist the XAML and they can use tools to create the look & feel and animations while a developer can work on the programming logic. Silverlight also integrates with server-side technologies. Flash is for graphics first and programming second. Silverlight is about making rich applications.
- ChrisOdaWas, on 10/10/2007, -6/+21It's not about what Silverlight can do that flash can't. It's about how you make Silverlight do things. For flash, you need to code in ActionScript. For Flex, you have to code in JavaScript which every developer says is the worst language ever. With Silverlight, you can use Ruby (which some people really love), Python, JavaScrip, C#, VisualBasic, XAML. And you can mix these languages on the fly. It's a developer's heaven.
- Gavagai80, on 10/10/2007, -5/+19It's called choice. Distros and users will decide whether to install it or not. I happen to like choice. It's not as though withholding it from Linux would reduce adoption, Silverlight could get 99% desktop penetration -- better than Flash -- without a single linux user.
- NoTiG, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17Here are two quotes that might help:
As I said back when this was announced, I think Silverlight is going to be huge. It's going to change the web -- it enables the move past web2.0 limited by the abilities of JavaScript and HTML. It's no glorified Microsoft-branded Flash plugin; the ability to write managed .NET code that runs right in the browser brings the full power of desktop development, and the full .NET professional development community, to the web landscape for the first time. Browser applications, powered by a plugin even dialup users can handle at a few megabytes in size, can be as rich and performant as their desktop counterparts while maintaining all the benefits of hosted "software as a service". Even our less advanced AJAX apps can be improved as Silverlight penetration increases over time -- JavaScript run through Silverlight (which has full access to the DOM just like it does natively) runs many times faster than any major browser's JavaScript parser.
I know I'm just rehashing the benefits we talked about back at MIX07, but I think this is something to watch. It'll take a while to pick up, like any new technology, but I think the web will be very different in 3 years and Silverlight will drive a lot of the innovation. - MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15No, because there aren't any. Silverlight is equal on all platforms. I mean, Protected Mode IE7 on Vista probably enhances security, but that's more of a browser thing. And if the plugin wasn't coded to support it, it wouldn't work.
- Markie1006, on 10/10/2007, -5/+17"It's a trap!"
- Demonmonger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13What do you mean, not very search engine friendly? You are obviously not using actionscript (flash / flex) for what it was intended to be used for. If you're designing a whole page in flash then you just don't "get it".
- NikkiA, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13The title appears to be incorrect... While 1.0 has launched, it does not include official linux support yet, just a statement that they WILL work with novell/mono to incorporate Moonlight. At present, the only solution on linux is still to manually install Moonlight through the same process as its had for a while now.
- OddTSi, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13I think he understands the reference just fine. What you and the OP don't understand is that all copyrighted phrases are blocked from Xbox Live. Try using Microsoft or Windows, it won't work either. Does that mean MS hates itself and its own product? Come on, use your brain a little and stop following the herd.
- ClayDragon, on 10/10/2007, -2/+12Microsoft had 0% in the browser market before they launched their Internet Exploder. After they defeated Netscape Navigator, web technology began to stagnate.
- lord2800, on 10/10/2007, -2/+12Because Silverlight doesn't contain DRM nor any direct means to use DRM. It's the media codec that involves DRM.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Microsoft just has to push it in a required IE update via Windows update, and quite a few people will have it.
Besides, plugins these days install nicely enough so that if you don't have a plugin like Flash when you visit a site, it's just a minor 5 second hiccup. - Atomic1fire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9if your silverlight use involves drm
its your problem - kingkilr, on 10/10/2007, -4/+13I know a current 0% market share looks like a monopoly...
- FredFredrickson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Say what you will about it, but at least this sets the stage for some competition for Adobe, so they will finally get off their asses and improve their products.
- lord2800, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10I only had to run the Silverlight installer exactly 1 time, and /all/ of my browsers (I'm a web developer, and so I have IE6, IE7, Firefox, Safari, and Opera installed) fully recognize the plugin. Now, you were saying?
- cheeze_ballz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8that can be said about anything -- people don't like Apple because of its fanboys...the same could be said about sports teams, cars or anything for that matter...
- pcpimpster, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Because why would you uninstall flash just to use silverlight? They both can coexist and the DRM is a feature not a defacto retards. Quit bashing just because you have nothing better to do.
- ours, on 10/10/2007, -4/+12Yeah, competition is for losers. Let Adobe keep their crappy monopoly.
Lets go back bashing Microsoft's monopolies in other areas and keep thinks neeto-objective. - Septimus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Wow, big boy words. Retarded big boy words but, well done.
You obviously know ***** all. Dick. - schotty, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7No Moonlight was developed by Novell. Microsoft doesnt do Mono, Novell does. Microsoft does .NET and C#.
- Septimus, on 10/10/2007, -8/+15It's the militant *nix user again. Every MS post, you are there spouting your paranoid *****. You're funny.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8More or less what I was saying is just an effect of how the browser requires plugins to be implemented. It's not really a Silverlight thing, it's an IE thing, and is the only thing I can think of that is even remotely different. I mean, if Firefox even had a protected mode, they'd have the implement it there too, just like everyone else would.
- Diganta, on 10/10/2007, -6/+13I'll see how long the multi-platform adoption continues ...
Exhibit A: Windows Media Player for Mac
Went till WMP 9.0 then Microsoft killed it, after DRM PlaysForSure support would be need for Mac OSX.
Guess if Apple can make Fairplay work on Mac OSX, WIndows, select Motorola phones I would assume Microsoft wouldn't have a problem with making WMP 10/11 for Mac OSX.
Exhibit B. Window NT. Support on not only IA-32, but also MIPS, DEC Alpha, PowerPC. Discontinues on all but Intel platforms.
Exhibit C. Virtual PC.
Bought Virtual PC from Connetix. Stalled development to support the G5 platform (PPC 970) until they needed
work on it for Xbox 360. Finally killed Virtual PC on all platforms but Windows.
Learn from history. - MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11While it's true that you can develop for Silverlight with nothing more than Notepad, you have MUCH better tools. Visual Studio, Expression Blend, Expression Design...... Microsoft's development suites are top notch.
- weeeezzll, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7The upside is that Silverlight has a License agreement that can be read in about 5 minutes, and understood with first obtaining a law degree...
:P - shawnz, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Regardless, Microsoft lending support to mono and moonlight will still be a huge help.
- brownr21, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Not suck to develop for?
- niceyuk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6"we couldn't kill Silverlight on Linux even if we wanted to at this stage."
.."at this stage" being the operative words. 0% market share is the reason for interoperability, once the technology becomes adopted and part of the Windows OS, I would put money on cross-platform development being dropped like a stone. - 4degrees, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12i wonder how this will fare against Flex. Flex seems to go just a little further.
I do like the introduction of competition though, maybe we will start to see some cool stuff. - Malachai, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I don't see how that had anything to do with the comment. He didn't even use the word Linux. Perhaps he doesn't want it to succeed for other reasons?
Fanboys are one thing, but people who loop people together unfairly are also very unpleasant. - KWhat, on 10/10/2007, -13/+19What can this do that flash cant? I am not a huge fan of flash because its not very search engine friendly and its a bit heavy. I cant imagine Microsoft magically solved both these problems. On a different note, how long will this be cross platform... Microsoft has always been in the business of selling more of there products, what better way to do this than to cut-off non-windows non-ie platforms after it gains popularity... sniff sniff smells a bit like Active-X 2.0
- apotropaic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6So 2 companies can't announce products on the same day? I say its typical of Apple to announce the iPod on the day silverlight comes out! lol
- ThinkFr33ly, on 10/10/2007, -11/+16linkin2 = idiot
- Smoov, on 10/10/2007, -8/+13Any reason, aside from sheer small-minded spite?
One of the major reasons people are turned off Linux is because of Linux fanboys. The OS itself is fantastic, it's just some of the the people that suck. - e68895f, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Mayby this can compete with flash on the RIA - sector,
but when it comes to animation and rich media web-pages,
the designers and animators are not going to ditch their
photoshops and mac-tools and start using something unproven.
Microsoft may understand coders, but they don't understand animators and designers.. - lord2800, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6There's just one problem with that theory: C# and such are all fully open spec. Anyone is free to implement a compiler for any .NET language. And as is demonstrated, the Mono project, which is a fully open source implementation of .NET, has Silverlight implemented in Mono itself.
In fact, the only parts that are iffy about .NET (that people actually use) are the libraries for System.Windows.Forms. Everything else is just dandy. - DutchGuilder, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Silverlight 1.0 = Media player + XAML viewer. Nice, but not great.
Silverlight 1.1 = Silverlight 1.0 + .Net runtime = huge benefits! Has the ease of developing desktop .Net apps with the benefit of web deployment inside the browser. - shinynew, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9funny how safari exploits dont hurt the entire OS
- init100, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Microsoft has the power to make this field *another* one of their monopolies. And that would be a bad thing for sure.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5and not only that there allready is a firefox plugin
microsoft knows what its doing on silverlight by getting compatibility as a headstart - cuculcan, on 10/10/2007, -6/+11You do understand IE and Media Player were removed from the Mac platform because people started using iTunes, Quicktime and Safari instead, right? Microsoft didn't *choose* to decrease their own user base.
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