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See the original image at arstechnica.com

New Live Search homepage: innovations nowhere to be seen

arstechnica.com — There's more blue and green everywhere, but not many changes to functionality or usability from the end-user perspective. If this is all Microsoft could pull together after working on the new update for so long, I understand why Ballmer wanted Yahoo so badly.

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  • quikboy, on 05/07/2008, -9/+55I would agree that the new search page is rather boring (I like the old one better), but I don't see how the homepage needs to be innovative. Exactly how is Google's or Yahoo!'s homepage any more innovative?

    If we're talking about Live Search itself, the true innovation lies in how it displays Image and Video results. And Academic and Book search aren't bad either. Also, on Live Maps, when you search for businesses, the results dynamically change as you zoom in and out of the map to better reflect the data. On Google Maps, when you zoom in and out, the results are exactly the same and static.

    Not saying Live Search is the best, but it's not too bad. Not as bad as what Yahoo! Search is.
    • SSCrow, on 05/07/2008, -9/+26Its just that Microsoft is behind it is what people have a problem with.
      Live search itself is just fine.
      • pukiman, on 05/07/2008, -12/+7And better than Google's actually. Google just filled with spam results, that have nothing to do with what you searched for.
      • SystemError51, on 05/07/2008, -3/+1"Google's algorythm echoes the logic of Amazon, it treats links as recommendations, and from that foundation powers the worlds fastest and most effective search engine".

        Or something like that the guy says in the Google EPIC video. Well, it's true.
      • HoratioHellpop, on 05/07/2008, -1/+2//Its just that Microsoft is behind it is what people have a problem with.// And that is why those people have issues.
    • Newedge14, on 05/07/2008, -9/+4I would have to agree, although I did enjoy the old one better as well, every search engine has the same layout. There is no innovative design for search. People want it short and simple
    • air12ick, on 05/07/2008, -5/+3I also agree. But the search algorithm they are using is buggy at most. Just search for Sony Ericsson, and you will see what I mean. But once in a while, the algorithm goes hay-wired, which usually happens during the night PST. The searches made would not even relate to each other. I actually use Live search 90% of the time just because I use the personalized page which is great if you know how to use it. But since they moved stuff over to my.live.com, a lot of the gadgets I had installed and the RSS feeds I had going either had to be re-done or it does not work at all. Hopefully they fix this soon because I miss my Live Favorites gadget (yes I bookmark online not on the browser). Outside of the new site, I see no improvments at all. It is more responsive, but this could be due to the new servers they installed (I read on a Microsoft blog somewhere), but not newsworthy. BTW, their Live Maps, or Local Live, is a much better experience than any other free mapping software I have used.
      • natenovs, on 05/07/2008, -2/+3ok. i got a bunch of links for the Sony Ericsson site, as well as the wikipedia entry for it. what results should i have seen?
    • FutureGuy, on 05/07/2008, -4/+10I think there are a quite a few innovative features, they do an awful job marketing them
      http://search.live.com/images/results.aspx?q=barak ...
      http://search.live.com/images/results.aspx?q=barak ...
      http://search.live.com/images/results.aspx?q=barak ...
      I also find it stereotypical to say that nothing MS does is innovative, 2 of the top 10 most innovative gadgets of 2007 as per popular mechanics were from MS (Surface and Sync) and MS is not even an hardware company.
    • daizaru, on 05/07/2008, -3/+4It lacks innovation in the sense that it's still behind google. When it comes to google though, searching is their flagship and gets the most of their attention. I don't know how much innovation there can be on the search front anyways.

      That said, give it time... I think people need to get used to how it works and stop treating it like google. Google is great for typing in basic words and finding popular matches but sometimes that doesn't always work in your favor when you need something specific. The filtering on the microsoft one seems promising.
  • macmangb, on 05/07/2008, -24/+2Steve and Apple needs to get into the search space and show all these tech companies how search and web apps should be done,
    • Ganja420, on 05/07/2008, -3/+11Because Steve Jobs is infallible
      • migitalwarfare, on 05/07/2008, -7/+5apple has a better track record than microsoft has as of late, i wouldn't say he's infallible, but he's a damn sight better than ballmer
        • Ganja420, on 05/07/2008, -5/+3IPOD SALES = GOOD SEARCH ENGINE DESIGN
          • migitalwarfare, on 05/09/2008, -0/+1you're a stoner, obviously, so i won't hold it against you that you lost track of the topic
    • chris9902, on 05/07/2008, -2/+8iSearch: "porn"
      Results: pictures of iMacs, iPhones and Steve Jobs
    • osiris24x, on 05/08/2008, -2/+1I'd much prefer that Apple keep its resources focused on computers, personally.
  • vidalsasoon, on 05/07/2008, -14/+5I like it. What more do you want?
  • freezerburn666, on 05/07/2008, -2/+6when i click personalize nothing happens... maybe it only works with IE 7...
    • alpha19, on 05/07/2008, -1/+3Worked fine in FireFox. I was waiting for the page to finish loading... and finally realized it just is a big blank page with misleading open spaces.
    • air12ick, on 05/07/2008, -2/+2You have to build the Personalized page, and that requires a login. Unless, if your a new user, it might just be broken.
  • FKnight, on 05/07/2008, -10/+25All I know is Live's image search makes Google's image search look like a kindergarten crafts project. And the images are actually relevent.
    • Ganja420, on 05/07/2008, -5/+4yea if you type in "anal bum cover" into google you just get a bunch of album covers
      • Newedge14, on 05/07/2008, -1/+7Yknow I was not going to ask, but what possessed you to search for "anal bum cover"
    • TheChunt, on 05/07/2008, -7/+4Agreed. Unfortunately you will likely be dugg down as any support towards MS is criminal on Digg.
      • talonstriker, on 05/07/2008, -1/+3What are you talking about? Recently the trend has been to be supportive of MS while bashing Apple. But MS does get criticized when it does wrong.
    • maninalift, on 05/07/2008, -2/+6It depends what you want. Microsoft Live Search gives results with a much narrower focus so when the results are what you want they are all good but when they are not what you want they are all wrong.

      Type "little" in to MLS and half the images are of the little mermaid. In Google you get the random assortment you would expect from such a vague search, similarly if you type "moderate" MSLS gives a load of stuff about acne.

      Apart from that in my experience I don't think either is MUCH better than the other. Google has started its image labeling project so that may change things
  • alpha19, on 05/07/2008, -7/+18It's ugly. The old one looked better. iGoogle > MyLive
  • TheThirdWheel, on 05/07/2008, -17/+22It must really suck to work for Microsoft. No matter what you spend your days toiling away on, whether the product is good or not. 99% of your peers will instantly hate it and anyone who unfairly critiques it is a genius. I like the new homepage you Microsoft dudes, good job.
    • Blacksheep34, on 05/07/2008, -13/+4Ya there always seems to be an expert here or there that knows better but doesnt work for Microsoft....Funny how that works..
    • natenovs, on 05/07/2008, -7/+1nah. they pay us well.
  • cplusplus, on 05/07/2008, -7/+28The name "Live" is confusing. Its not live. Its searching an index it built of the web last week or whenever.
    • TheThirdWheel, on 05/07/2008, -5/+6It's a continuity thing, it ties in with other MS products.
      • boldfire, on 05/07/2008, -1/+4This is true, but it hardly helps when they can't make up their minds about names. "Windows Live" then "Windows Live Search" and then "Live Search". 3 Names since 2006 and more designs than that even, it's quite obvious that Microsoft don't know what they want apart from they want to beat Google.
    • smrekar, on 05/08/2008, -2/+1apple had to invent a time machine just to keep up.
  • thrash822, on 05/07/2008, -18/+0PC users are teh gay
    • BXRWXR, on 05/07/2008, -3/+2DIAF
    • Blacksheep34, on 05/07/2008, -0/+5People calling people gay are usually gay....
    • chris9902, on 05/07/2008, -0/+1Who left the lock off the door? FFS guys, it's there for a reason!
    • crazysamz, on 05/07/2008, -0/+3You just called about 90-95% of the world's computer user's gay... Your probably going to get a lot of comebacks better than yours... Maybe you should, you know, learn from them and come up with something better..
    • LargeTrout, on 05/07/2008, -0/+2Just because I use PC's does not mean I like men's bums. Your parents and education have failed you.
  • quaffapint, on 05/07/2008, -6/+7Microsoft has some smart folks working there, but I'm befuddled as to why when I search for 'digg', I get everything but a direct digg.com link...
    http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=digg
    ...Same thing on Google - What's first? digg.com, of course...
    http://www.google.com/search?q=digg

    • Condemned, on 05/07/2008, -1/+17For me, the first result is a link to digg.com.
      • talonstriker, on 05/07/2008, -1/+5For me its linking to blog.digg.com (maybe it takes into account locality?). There is no link to the homepage of digg, which is what he meant I think.
      • maninalift, on 05/07/2008, -0/+5I get "Disability Information Greater Glasgow" I guess they are weighing too heavily the fact that I'm in the UK.
      • mossblaser, on 05/07/2008, -0/+2In the UK I get
        "Disability Information Greater Glasgow

        Information on disabilities and disability services in Glasgow for the public, carers and health care profesionals ... Disability Information for Greater Glasgow (DIGG) DIGG aims ...

        * www.digg.org.uk
        * ยท Cached page"
    • known, on 05/07/2008, -8/+3Live Search is of the Microsoft, by the Microsoft and for the Microsoft!!!!

    • Kindjal, on 05/07/2008, -5/+6no one uses it so it has no popularity info and shows all possible urls containing digg. It's pathetic as everyone knows that an url starting with www. is the main one. I am not surprised at all because this is generally the quality of MS products.

      PS: i get the Disability Information Greater Glasgow as top hit, pathetic.
    • otw7, on 05/07/2008, -0/+5Ya I get a few search results every day that aren't very relevant. Microsoft should probably put that on the top of their priority list instead of my.live.com.
    • Kindjal, on 05/07/2008, -1/+7HAHAHAHA! Try searching for Vista. This is beyond incompetence. The link to their own product is way down in the list (on google its the first). the second link is:

      Repair vista:
      - Errorsmart.com
      Fix vista errors. Takes only 3 Mins. Free.
      • natenovs, on 05/07/2008, -4/+2third entry for me. after wikipedia, and the definition of the word 'vista'. seems reasonable to me.
    • bmcnally, on 05/07/2008, -1/+6Ummm . . . no? Digg is the first result, as well as links nested to videos, technology, games . . .
    • shrenikshah, on 05/19/2008, -0/+0it shows the same results as google does...
  • farksucks, on 05/07/2008, -6/+7microsoft's search is much nicer looking, especially for images. Google hasn't changed their basic look since 1997.

    google's results are still more accurate, but not for the reason google would like investors to believe. everyone knows how the pagerank algorithm works, and has copied it. it's pretty simple- pages with more links pointing to them go higher up on the results list.

    google's secret weapon is around 80,000 "contractors" who are paid a few dollars a day to perform searches and help manually fine tune the results. yahoo has the same effort underway, but they have FAR FAR fewer people doing the fine tuning.

    if microsoft wants to catch google, all they need to do is hire 80,000 "contractors" for a few bucks a day to perform searches and give some manual input on the results.
    • holmenb, on 05/07/2008, -1/+20Citation Needed
    • clesch, on 05/07/2008, -1/+2"everyone knows how the pagerank algorithm works, and has copied it. it's pretty simple- pages with more links pointing to them go higher up on the results list."

      SEO explained by a digg commenter. fun fun fun.
    • freedomknight, on 05/07/2008, -2/+3=> if microsoft wants to catch google, all they need to do is hire 80,000 "contractors"

      And 1 Million managers & 2.3 steve ballamers.
  • jon31rm, on 05/07/2008, -5/+2There's no size filters on the image search. Lame.
    • inavat, on 05/07/2008, -3/+8Don't be an idiot. There is a column on the right that says "Refine Search By: " and "size" is one of the options.
      • inajeep, on 05/07/2008, -3/+1So size matters?
      • jon31rm, on 05/07/2008, -1/+3Sidebar only shows up in IE apparently. Doesn't show up in Safari or Firefox for OS X.
  • goscript, on 05/07/2008, -8/+1Do they heard of CSS?
    • Shiner6, on 05/07/2008, -0/+2Have you ever tried making a site IE compatible?

      Seriously though, they use CSS. Not sure what your comment means.
      • goscript, on 05/07/2008, -2/+1I'm using Firefox, and it doesn't looks compatible either..
  • jon31rm, on 05/07/2008, -6/+7No size filters for the image search? Lame.
    • RobotFood83, on 05/07/2008, -4/+1Huh? It's the first item on the right side under the text "Refine by"
      • vertexoflife, on 05/07/2008, -1/+6Not in firefox.
      • renegadeafk, on 05/08/2008, -1/+3The personalized homepage doesn't even work in beta 5.
  • thedogfatherx, on 05/07/2008, -10/+8Who uses Live search? Google all the way baby!
    • freedomknight, on 05/07/2008, -3/+4=> Who uses Live search ?

      May be people who are not interested in results.
    • smrekar, on 05/08/2008, -1/+1apparently 2 people more than the ones who use google, of those reading this article.
  • goscript, on 05/07/2008, -1/+4Don't know about you, but when I click on "More", all I get is "See all.."
  • FatBurger, on 05/07/2008, -5/+37There are people who don't use Google?
  • Zippo, on 05/07/2008, -5/+8I kind of feel bad for all the hard-working developers at Microsoft. I'm sure the creative directors and head programmers are crying to be heard, only be be silenced by the folks upstairs who are more focused on cutting corners, and buying out other companies... focused more on money... instead of focusing on what's important - making a good, solid product. *cough*windows*cough*

    I'm sure the people who make the products are talented people... just suffocated by bad management and/or a lack of motivation.
  • superkendall, on 05/07/2008, -3/+7I personally still prefer Google maps, way smoother scrolling around an arial view, and Street View is more useful than Birdseye. Also, having "Arial" and "Brdseye" as two different options is kind of confusing - though I doubt most people would understand "isometric" anytime soon. Still, it's a weird UI confusion as you have to think which one you want to hit.

  • Ossuary, on 05/07/2008, -1/+7Microsoft has got to have the people who can come up with better stuff. I know they have to be in there somewhere. Why can't they do better? Is some marketing group throttling them back? WTH? They have some brilliant people working there, but it is just dying on the vine.
    • farksucks, on 05/07/2008, -6/+2Microsoft's main problem is that they haven't done what google has- hired 80,000 contractors for a few dollars a day (mostly in india) to manually do searches and return input on what the best results are.

      Also, Microsoft hasn't come up with a cool name for their search which can be a recognizable verb, like the word "google"..
  • vacuum2440, on 05/07/2008, -5/+8wow anyone else think that looks almost exactly like google search, like i dont get how anyone can use those other search engines where the top seaches are the ones who pay the most money...google is by far the most unbiased search engine
  • coollettuce, on 05/07/2008, -3/+7I've got a question and it might sound silly. Is Microsoft Live pronounced 'live' as in the verb form, to live or 'live' as in this tv broadcast is live? Thanks.
  • rsmithrun, on 05/07/2008, -9/+12This post is a sorry excuse for a chance to take a shot at Microsoft. It is a redesign of the search page, nothing more. If Google stole that design and put their name on it this is the post you would see "New Google Search homepage...BRILLIANT!" So just stop the Microsoft bashing for no reason.
  • EEdesigner, on 05/07/2008, -4/+7Microsoft CANNOT innovate. I'm positive that there many brilliant software engineers working there, but now that MS is a large company, they have managers right out of Dilbert. I know. Been there, done that. These managers could suck the creativity out of Einstein. Given that Microsoft never even had a core group of creativity, and learned to sit back and watch Gates purchase all the real creativity, they are left with no creative core, no roadmap, and worst of all, no legacy software worth a c**p.
  • stewartgorman, on 05/07/2008, -1/+3Brilliant - a search for Iron Man in the video section gets me a link to the iron man trailer page - Russian version (I'm in the US). I thought determining geo locale by IP was old hat by now? Keep trying, MS.
    • talonstriker, on 05/07/2008, -3/+3I'm getting pretty irrelevant results--mainly dealing with the Ironman Triathalon competition. But the Live Images search kicks Google's ass.
    • DarkShroud, on 05/08/2008, -1/+1Well the first result for me was a list of show times for some of my local theaters. I'm impressed with that.
  • brett717, on 05/07/2008, -0/+5http://nggc.org/Images/wtfdigg.JPG
    Wtf digg? I want to read the article, not the ***** mcdonalds ad
    • talonstriker, on 05/07/2008, -0/+1If I see that ad, digg comes off my whitelist. The goddamn Bustedtees ads are distracting enough...
      • AdHaR, on 05/07/2008, -0/+3Two words: AdBlock Plus
      • maninalift, on 05/07/2008, -0/+1That's the point "If I see that ad, digg comes off my [Adblock] whitelist".
    • Rapter09, on 05/07/2008, -0/+1But it's *so* good.
    • SSUK, on 05/07/2008, -1/+3Update your Flash player, update your browser, get AdBlock for your browser.
    • DarkShroud, on 05/08/2008, -0/+1Even IE has an adblock plug-in, get with the times.
  • bmcnally, on 05/07/2008, -2/+4Microsoft is not a monolithic company, which is what people seem to think. The people at Live do not report to the same people as Office and they don't report to the same people at Xbox (eventually they do, but not in day-to-day decisions).

    Think of it more as a GE - a bunch of small companies under a single masthead.
  • fiveoaks, on 05/07/2008, -1/+11The results page looks like google, but more confusing.
  • mindbullet, on 05/07/2008, -2/+4I tried the new live search and I was very pleased. I searched "world's best search engine" and found plenty of references to google. lol
  • imarketnc, on 05/07/2008, -2/+3Nothing like "design by committee."
  • imarketnc, on 05/07/2008, -3/+4BTW, "World's Best Search Engine" shows Google-related results. Check #4 on "World's Worst Search Engine"

    http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=%22world%27s ...
  • Startemus, on 05/07/2008, -2/+5*random anti-Microsoft comment*
  • apena89, on 05/08/2008, -1/+1omg now microsoft is taking the netvibes feel with it's Live personalizing. just like igoogle. geez isnt anyone innovative anymore?
  • nrox653, on 05/08/2008, -2/+0Microsoft - All your plagiarisms start here. *cough*InternetExplorer*cough*
  • DarkShroud, on 05/08/2008, -0/+2For those of you crying no innovation from MS check out: http://www.tafiti.com/
  • n0odles, on 05/08/2008, -1/+0Another Microsoft Fail.
  • ttam, on 05/08/2008, -1/+1I think the issue here is that microsoft is using their own products. In all seriousness, speaking as a full time .net web developer, building web sites in visual studio is one of the hardest things I have to do.
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