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79 Comments
- knelto, on 10/12/2007, -4/+102At least Dell is honest:
Basic Windows Vista Experience - No Aero
Great for... Booting the Operating System, without running applications or games
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/solutions/en/winvista?c=us&cs=&l=en&s=dhs - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -4/+58Wow, I can't believe they actually said that... I actually have a tad of respect for Dell now. Not much, but it's something.
- RogueJediX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+40I gotta say props to them. Not many companies are this honest.
- JimV, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17If anyone should be sued, it's the computer manufacturers who load their machines up with shizzit software like McAfee Security Center or Norton Internet Security, plus the 20 programs needed to run the media keys and the wireless. That's why their computer is slow.
Home Basic doesn't come with Aero anyway, and I would consider Home Basic to be the core of Windows Vista. - 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17"Yeah, but they can't run all the features of Vista."
By your definition any machine that can't run Compiz can't run Ubuntu. Do you realize how insane that sounds? Even with Aero Vista runs fine on my two year old laptop. Running with the Vista basic theme enables Vista to run quickly on my Tualatin Celeron 1Ghz with integrated graphics and 512Mb of RAM. I'm sure it would run on slower machines too. This is a frivolous lawsuit designed simply to capitalize on the bizarre anti-Microsoft sentiment that seems to be abundant. - niceyuk, on 10/12/2007, -10/+23"You can run games on Windows basic."
Yeah.... solitaire and minesweeper. - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15"Microsoft redefines "Vista Capable" after a lawsuit filed last week alleged bait-and-switch behavior."
More like Microsoft clarified what "Vista Capable" means to avoid further frivolous lawsuits. - lexbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12RTFA. Dell is saying the "Basic Windows Vista Experience" with a minimum hardware configuration is only good for booting the OS and not for apps or games. Microsoft on the other hand would say that minimum configuration to be "Vista Capable."
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13There are lots of usability features in Beryl it's just the youtube videos tend to focus on the crazy stuff. Obviously useful ones are live thumbnails, scale (expose) and the new alt-tab switcher. There are a few other things that have use as well (the cube and transparency effects have their use, it is quick to find an application by bringing a transparent cube up and directly seeing your app).
I imagine Aero has a similar set of tools but I've not seen much of it. The point is there can be usability benefits to these things so you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand. - Philodox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@aldenhq
You're only half crazy. I'm pretty sure MS said they'd backport certain things like the networking stack, and the Windows Presentation Framework. Unfortunately that doesn't necessarily include Aero, it just means that the shiny new way of writing graphical applications will be made available to XP users. - cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11No, they made DirectX 10 Vista only because the changes needed in the driver model would have required re-writing XP into a new OS anyway.
- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Guys. The only things MS said they would backport was the .NET 3.0 framework, which includes Avalon (now Windows Presentation Foundation) as its graphical subsystem. And they have.
You may also be thinking of Monad (now Powershell), which was originally going to be a Longhorn feature but was shifted to Server 2007, which will ship with it; which has also now been released as a seperate download for Vista, Server 2003, and XP. - Tenoq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7It makes sense for Dell to be honest about your system performance under Vista: it helps them sell new machines, rather than you upgrading your old one. IMO, if you haven't bought a mid to high-end system in the last couple of years, Vista is a waste of time and money. Hell, you can still buy PCs today, brand-new that will suck with Vista (on-board graphics, 512MB RAM, etc, etc).
Dell is right - if you want the iCandy OS, you need some decent hardware. Otherwise, stick to XP. It's got years of life left, and, for the time being, it's far more compatible and reliable. Your mileage may vary. ;) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+18 farasdfg12345...damn. I was going to get it, but since a pathetic hater like you said not to, I decided against it.
- scabbers, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Is Aero actually useful, anyway?
- KayIslandDrunk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I've installed all the updates and none of that has happened to me. At the same time I pick and choose what updates to install so I know whats going to be downloaded to my machine...
- Ahnteis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4As mentioned above--vista will actually use your memory. Stunning I know.
It will prefetch common things to memory so that they load / respond faster. If you NEED the memory for something, it just drops them out and loads the new stuff in. - polywaffle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Well vista is more bloated than xp to begin with, but the ram usage is to do with the prefetch functionality afaik.
- rkuchiki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@AdebisiTheGamer
I'm not a Apple fanboy, nor am I a Microsoft fanboy, but it just needs to be said.
Regardless how good an OS is, some end user (read: idiot) will need support for it eventually. - Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Reminds me of when I bought my laptop. It's a Gateway, and says that it's Vista Capable. I didn't buy it for that reason, I wanted to run XP and/or Linux, but whatever. Just for the heck of it, I downloaded and ran Microsoft's "Can You Run Windows Vista" thing on it, and it said I couldn't. Not even the basic stuff. Why? because the supposed 512MB RAM I had, was not all being used for RAM, some was bei ng used for the graphics card, so it thought I didn't have enough RAM.
Lies, all lies! - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7My computer is Vista resistant.
- parax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't think the lawsuit is frivolous. A non-technical user expects things to to work exactly as advertised. They buy a "Vista Capable Computer" because they believe the computer is capable of running Vista. If they buy the computer and it only "sort of" runs Vista, they didn't get what they thought the sticker said. They got a "Sort Of Vista Capable Computer", in that case, the computer should say "Almost Vista Capable" or "Kind Of Runs Windows Vista".
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3GMorgan is correct. semw is obviously a virulent MS troll similar to the likes of 7of7 and Estvir.
The "magic" behind DX10 is shader model 4.0, which is built into the graphics card, not something part of Windows. To program graphics cards DX10 uses HLSL, OpenGL uses GLSL, or you can use Nvidia's Cg. Nvidia now has an SDK which allows you to convert shaders between the different languages so you can easily port to different platforms; e.g. Microsoft Windows, and the rest of the universe.
Here is PROOF for you doubters, "DX10" using OpenGL on XP:
http://www.quakewars.jp/slang/
Fully operational, btw. - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -13/+15> .. didn't MS say that Aero would be made available for XP as well?
HAHAHAH - I have heard some ridiculous claims about Microsoft saying certain things but this takes the cake. - Inqu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@rkuchiki
The DRM features don't kick in until you actually try to use DRM enabled media. There's so much FUD out there regarding this one particular feature. People need to do their own research instead of regurgitating what the haters throw out, thinking they "know" how things are. - glenn2041, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4As a developer, I have two gig of RAM running on XP. I can only imagine what I'll need to do the same on Vista.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5FFS DX10 is just an API. It can be adapted to whatever driver model they want within reason. People are getting confused between high level libraries and low level architecture issues. You may as well say MS had to change the start menu because they moved the GUI out of the kernel. Totally different things at totally different levels and how often some repeat this is just a testament to how little they actually know about computers.
Anyway, at no point should people be confused about the difference between a driver (which is just a low level set of instructions, often in ASM, that allows basic access to fundamental features) and an API (which is a high level set of instructions). DX10 could be implemented in MS-DOS if they wished. The move is solely about giving Vista an advantage in the market place. There is no technical reason it couldn't be added to XP. - SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes. Or a Radeon 9500 if you prefer ATi.
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4aldenhg, IIRC Microsoft hasn't said it would 'backport' things but it has said some things (Like WPF) will also be available on XP.. why ? Because most people won't upgrade and that has nothing to do with Vista being bad just that businesses have schedules, budgets, etc and home users might not know how to upgrade or want to spend more money on their PC which to them, is like their toaster.
I wasn't aware of them saying the new networking stack would be going to XP as well and I find that equally as ridiculous as them bringing Aero to XP.
Maybe it is your old age, both of you. ;) - sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4What did you expect trying to run Vista with only 512MB of ram? With regards to ANY software out there, running on the MINIMUM requirements is almost always a very unpleasant experience.
- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> semw is obviously a virulent MS troll similar to the likes of 7of7 and Estvir
I do like how anyone who disagrees with you is "obviously a virulent MS troll" -- not to mention the irony of being accused of a troll by someone who apparently searches for Microsoft stories in order to post comments such as "Bill Gates is a rat bastard" and "Microsoft scumbags" (both of which were the sole content of the comment in question).
As for the content of your post: yes, DirectX10 uses Shader model 4.0. Yes, quite obviously OpenGL can also use shader model 4.0; as the link you posted aptly demonstrated. But no, DirectX10 is not just DirectX 9 with support for shader model 4.0. And no, it is not the shader model 4.0 support that is the part of DirectX10 that requires WDDM. Try actually reading the Direct3D Wikipedia link I posted before. - invinciblechunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Isn't the minimum for Aero a FX5200? If you don't have that, then it was time to upgrade about 3 years ago.
- Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2like I said, I didn't (and still don't) want to run Vista. I just wanted XP and/or Linux, and the laptop said that it happened to be Vista capable. I know all the requirements for Vista, I just don't want it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Get a 64-bit system to find out. 32-bit systems are limited to 3.3GB of memory.
- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Disclaimer: whilst I am digging the parent down, it is not because I hate Vista.
N.B. I hereby release this post into the public domain such that any future diggers coming across the parent post may treat my post as if it were their own and accordingly digg down the parent without subscribing to his/her Vista-related views. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@scabbers
Short Answer: No. Long answer: No. It's smoother, semi-transparent windows, visual alt-tab (flip), barely-3D version of alt-tab (flip3d), and thumbnails of tabbed down windows. It's not even close to Beryl.
@GMorgan
I can't find anything else in Aero beside what I've posted. - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10> I can't see any other reason to upgrade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista - Go wild.
> .. which is exactly why Microsoft made DirectX 10 Vista-only
Yeah, it's not like DX10 requires on Vista-only things like the new/changed kernel, new driver model, etc - Nope, it's just some conspiracy to get users to upgrade and also buy an Xbox ! How is game compatibility broken ? Every game which was working on XP is working fine on Vista for me and many others.
I think your tin foil is on too tight. - dinh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Gotta admit, if you don't have the pc to run Vista, you must be some cheap ol' bastard.
Seriously, did anyone see the X2 3800+ for $73 on Newegg? You can build yourself a pretty DECENT system for $700 that runs Aero. - yournamehere, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2GMorgan,
so then the new sound driver model should also be backwards compatible? righhhhtttt. - AdebisiTheGamer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6OS X just works? Never has any problems? I guess all those Mac support sites I see are figments of my imagination.
Vista has alot of problems but Mac has yet to put out a perfect O/S either. - Ahnteis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3You want an operating system (software) to work like a laptop (hardware)? Brilliant!
- chieferer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4if OSX i dunno... just... WORKED... answer this: why is the a website called macfixit.com?
arrgh! adebisi beat me to it - AdebisiTheGamer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3You have other problems with your computer. Windows update works just fine. Maybe you just have a cheap ass mobo, or RAM, or a flaky PSU, or corrupt files or one of many other things.
And its not impossible to fix the OS. Just because you couldn't figure it out, doesn't mean it can't be done. - Diana172, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually, Microsoft told us this from the start. I do agree, though, that they should have placed signs in retail stores about it, as most people aren't even going to notice the difference between the two stickers.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4about 2 gig...its only when in the lower #s that it has problems 1.5 and up will be fine...hell sometimes it runs better than XP
- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4@GMorgan: the "driver model" that estvier and cquinnd were referring to is the Driver Display Model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WDDM). It is this model that Direct3D 10 is written around -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D_10#Direct3D_10 for more information -- and in future do the relevant research before assuming that there is "no technical reason" for something.
- chieferer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3100% true. system resources are made to be used up. if you are that concerned about it using system resources i believe i have a copy of DOS on a floppy somewhere i can dig up for you...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Iv been using vista since RC1. RC1 and RC2 had little problems for me. They were beta so that was expected and most of the problems were driver related witch had nothing to do with MS. Now that i have the final release i have had NO problems on MS's half (though plenty with Nvidia but they are doing what they can). Yes Vista does use more resources but that is to be expected. If you expect to run it on 512 of PC3200 your just retarded. hell i wouldn't even recommend that little in XP. Anyone complaining about all these "Problems with vista" needs to do their homework on the hardware and software they install be4 they just slap it together and expect it to work. Would you just go buy a car without driving it around and checking on prices? If so you deserve to get burned.
- rkuchiki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Ingu
Still doesn't answer the rest of my point. Vista is supposed to be "optimized" and "faster". Hardly. -
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