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Microsoft internal memo details Windows 7-Windows Live ties

blogs.zdnet.com — The memo outlines some of the possible ties between Windows 7 (which Microsoft has said is due in 2010) and Windows Live Wave 3 services (upgrades of Windows Live Hotmail, Messenger, Writer, Family Safety, etc., due to be rolled out late this year, if the team stays on schedule). These integration points are the potentially most fertile — and con..

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  • kwelte57, on 04/30/2008, -19/+11They will not be content until they own it all!
    • jemka, on 04/30/2008, -6/+20Own what? This is how companies run. They have products. They improve those product. They introduce new products and they integrate their products.
      • mrsteveman1, on 04/30/2008, -2/+5And in Microsofts case, they go out of their way to break any competitions attempts to become compatible with Microsofts software. We already see some of this with the Live services breaking on specific platforms for no real reason. Same for the SMB protocol, they've been trying to break Samba for a long time, and I've heard the samba developers claim that SMB2, the new protocol, has no purpose but to "***** with samba".

        The controversy here is going to be how far MS goes to use Live mesh and the other services to prop up Windows. There are at least SOME indications they might be moving toward a more services based model and not rigidly clinging to Windows, but I'll reserve my praise for when that actually happens.
        • PleaseJustDie, on 04/30/2008, -1/+4actually NTLM2, which broke samba compatibility with vista for a bit, was introduced because its more secure. And Samba is compatible with it now, you just have to do a couple extra steps. Also, microsoft has agreed to give all the documentation for all their network protocols to a third party for a fee which in turn are given to the Samba team who have signed NDAs to help Samba be more compatible.
          • mrsteveman1, on 04/30/2008, -1/+3Im not talking about NTLMV2, I'm talking about SMB2, which is a new protocol, one that the samba developers personally heard Microsoft employees say was only intended to "***** with samba". Thats a direct quote, if you want to hear them say it, it was FOSS weekly episode 14, available here: http://twit.tv/floww14

            I agree the documentation stuff and the NDAs are great, I'm happy things turned out that way, but of course, Microsoft was forced into this by the EU. I don't think Microsoft has actually changed.
    • rpgmaker, on 04/30/2008, -2/+3I know Microsoft will find a way to mess it up but for now it looks good for me, I'm not a fan of the Live services but their next best move is to integrate their OS the the web in a very smoothly -and useful- way.
      • niceyuk, on 04/30/2008, -0/+3Which is another anti-competitive lawsuit waiting to happen. Microsoft shouldnt be using their desktop monopoly to gain market share for their crappy Live services.
        • mrsteveman1, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1You have it backwards, they are starting all these live services to tie them to windows, otherwise google or someone else could come in and make cross platform stuff, and we can't have that now can we.
        • rpgmaker, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1So do you want them to do nothing regarding the integration of their web services + desktop OS? The web('cloud' if you will)/OS integration is a must in every OS. Do you really expect Microsoft to built that integration with Google online services? Don't be silly.
          • niceyuk, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1Yes, I think tying the web services into the OS is unnecessary. If MS wants to develop a world class OS and web services, great, but they should stand on their own merits. The OS should ideally be a small, fast interface between the hardware and software/web apps, not a bloated monstrosity tied in to other MS applications for no other reason than to provide an unfair competitive advantage.

            Why should MS not make the OS interface with Google apps? Theres no way Microsoft can provide every web service that everyone would need so why not provide open integration to other online services?

            I think the idea that MS is trying to create a Microsoft operating system tied into a Microsoft internet is silly.
    • daizaru, on 04/30/2008, -1/+3People want integration, especially when it works flawlessly. Microsoft does somethings amazingly well and others don't pan out like Vista, I wish people would stop complaining and just accept that Microsoft is like every other company trying to make their brand stronger and dominate the market. People view Leopard as superior, Microsoft has to improve; are you implying they shouldn't try?

      Mac's are trendy now, have business solutions and are pretty easily available. They also are integrated in their design and can sometimes limit your options even more locking you into specific hardware etc. However, it's an alternative.

      It's very hard to argue that Microsoft is a monopoly when Apple has such a prominent face in the PC community now as well as an established brand name. Linux is growing in popularity as well albeit very slowly.
      • mrsteveman1, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1What do they do well? I'm asking

        Apple is really more of a walled garden than a PC at this point. They sell whole computers like an appliance.
  • madwaxer, on 04/30/2008, -23/+5A modular microsoft would be such a waste no one would bother.
    however i might test it if it used less HD space than XP.
    • cquinnd, on 04/30/2008, -4/+10Microsoft has been moving Windows towards a more modular design since Windows 2000.
    • Kazbaeden, on 04/30/2008, -2/+9Because harddrive space is such a valuable in these hard times. I can go out and get a 500GB drive for $100. Harddrive space is the least of my worries.
      • HonoredMule, on 04/30/2008, -6/+6That doesn't mean I want to fill it with operating system, system backups, and crappy "restore" partitions.
        • goffy59, on 04/30/2008, -4/+5You don't even know what your talking about. I could come up with a better insult then that. Jack Christ, do you apple fan boys write down everything you can find and pick something new to say everyday? I hate all you ***** fan boys; Including Windows fan boys and Linux fan boys.
          • orlandogeek, on 04/30/2008, -3/+3Very much not a Mac junkie here and I completely agree with HonoredMute. Just because I have all this space and memory doesnt mean i want to piss it away with unnecessary bloated software (Here's lookin at you Vista).
          • goffy59, on 04/30/2008, -3/+3AND I DONT HAVE VISTA. AND ITS NOT MINE! RETARD!
            Restore points do not make their own partition. and system back ups work the same as any back up system.
          • HonoredMule, on 04/30/2008, -3/+2I wasn't talking about restore points, *****. I was referring to the partitions that vendors who ship Windows preinstalled place at the end of the system drive to re-image the system partition.

            Oh, and just for the record, Mac OS X is the OS I dislike the most, and since there isn't actually an OS that I /don't/ hate, I have a hard time swallowing the classification of 'fanboy'. I'm sure, however, that a baseless accusation of brand loyalty sounded like a very compelling counter-argument in your head.
          • EtherGnat, on 04/30/2008, -2/+2"I was referring to the partitions that vendors who ship Windows preinstalled place at the end of the system drive to re-image the system partition."

            Whether that's a useful feature or not is debatable. I fail to see how it has anything to do with Microsoft, though.
          • HonoredMule, on 04/30/2008, -1/+2The bigger the windows install, the bigger the backup image. THAT'S what it has to do with Microsoft. Whether it's a useful feature may well be debatable, but since vendors do it anyway, it a fully valid example of how bloated software manages to take its second or third bite out of your hard drive. The wastefulness of the original software is the catalyst.

            Jeez, you would have thought I'd said something controversial, not "I don't want to waste hard drive space just because I can." Then again, maybe some of you will start to appreciate my perspective once you've suffered from your first hard drive crash without properly maintained backups.
  • killbert24, on 04/30/2008, -19/+10I hope it is at least as good as Vista.
    • FearlessFreep, on 04/30/2008, -5/+6Two times zero is still a small number
      • LordVance, on 04/30/2008, -2/+11Yea, but FIVE times zero... am I right?
  • phatvolvo, on 04/30/2008, -24/+18I say the tie is that they'll both suck!
  • digsuxx, on 04/30/2008, -24/+12gentlemen you are witnessing first hand the demise of an empire. enjoy.
    • bjornski, on 04/30/2008, -6/+4Don't know much about the Live services, do you? I use them a lot, and they're pretty well done.

      This is actually going to be pretty cool.
    • friday04, on 04/30/2008, -3/+9I don't know why you're getting dugg down because you're spot on. We are witnessing the end of an empire.

      What this sounds like to me is what they did to Netscape in the late 90's. They couldn't compete head-on with Netscape so they bundled IE into Windows (becoming part of the OS itself) and then everyone who bought a Windows machine had IE sitting pretty on their desktop. Netscape couldn't fight it. Google is in much better position to fight such a battle but it shows that MS is willing to give old tactics a chance. Bundle Windows Live services into the core of the next OS and hope that it'll be so easy for people to find/use that they'll actually start using it over Google's services. Same old MS trying old dirty tactics.

      The only difference is this time people aren't as stupid. People know they have options and they use them. IE7 uses Live Search as its default but most people quickly switch it to Google. This is a desperate grasp at pushing their wares on people through their monopoly. The empire is indeed crumbling. I only wish they would do the hostile-takeover of Yahoo and deplete their cash reserves in the process. It'll expedite the whole thing.
  • Phatlip012, on 04/30/2008, -11/+38I'm really not a fan of Windows (I primarily use OS X and Linux). With that said, how exactly is this a bad thing? I don't know, maybe I'm missing something but this sounds like a good idea to me.
    • toastgodsupreme, on 04/30/2008, -13/+7Because they have better things to do than making Windows tie in with their live services... like fixing it first.

      I don't mind a company that wants to expand their product, but that product shouldn't be on it's way to imploding in on itself. There are numerous sites detailing the failings of Vista. Most notably, performance loss compared to XP on the same machines. There's also compatibility issues, UI problems, and more.

      They need to fix the OS first, THEN think about adding crazy services.
      • rpgmaker, on 04/30/2008, -0/+10They can fix the OS and add the Live services. In fact, Vista was supposed to do that for the company but they really messed up. The only bad thing that I see in Windows 7 is that it will have the same base as Vista, with no radical changes.
      • Phatlip012, on 04/30/2008, -2/+3Why not both? Microsoft didn't say they were focusing on this and only this. Hell, its really only a rumor at this point in time.
        • mrsteveman1, on 04/30/2008, -2/+1Thats the problem isn't it, they don't focus on any one thing and end up screwing all of them up.
    • danz32, on 04/30/2008, -2/+4It's definitely a good thing. I think the eventual goal is to tie everything together into your Windows Live ID: your files will be shared on your Live Mesh; you will have your favorites, calendar, email all together in one; and available (and sync'd) to whichever computers you log in to.

      We will see if it can be that seamless by Windows 7; but there isn't any drawbacks to this Live integration. Plus, for all the anti-Microsoft fans, you know the EU will be all over them if they don't open up the Windows integration to Google, Yahoo, etc.
  • doshindude, on 04/30/2008, -23/+25Looks like I'll be using XP well until 7 comes out...long live XP!
    • taffyhealscrowd, on 04/30/2008, -8/+8As someone frequently frustrated by XP, it's sad that it's come to that.
    • KMartSheriff, on 04/30/2008, -2/+4*rolls eyes*
  • truspect0r, on 04/30/2008, -17/+12Windows Live? lol
  • headzoo, on 04/30/2008, -13/+10Aren't they getting tired of being sued/fined for these kinds of product ties?
    • init100, on 04/30/2008, -1/+4Sure, but they make more money doing it than they have to pay in fines, so they keep doing it.
    • estvir, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1Others, like Yahoo and Google, will have access to the APIs. An obvious example are the new 'Services' (Blogging/searching/viewing on maps/etc) in IE8, you can change the defaults from MS services to others.

      Also, people will be able to change the defaults before they reach the consumer. I'm sure we'll see Dell-Yahoo deals, Googled branded downloads (Like there is for IE7) and so on.
  • logandurand, on 04/30/2008, -18/+20I need an operating system to allow me to run programs, not give me a certain "experience". If I want for my OS to integrate with online services, I will install software to do so. An OS shouldn't be designed with this sort of "integration" in mind.
    • Phatlip012, on 04/30/2008, -11/+11Why not? As our lives become more and more dependent on web services why wouldn't you want some sort of better integration between your desktop and frequently used web services?
      • gradivus, on 04/30/2008, -4/+11No,its called the damn Mozilla address bar. I type in the address I want and it takes me there. If I want to integrate with something I will buy a hooker.
    • Narpas, on 04/30/2008, -3/+16Yes. But I'd rather install the programs that I want than uninstall programs that I don't want.
  • ryleyleckie, on 04/30/2008, -7/+6with a 2010 launch date and an enormous amount of pressure and risk, isn't it a little late for their team to be 'wondering aloud?'
    • Ranvier, on 04/30/2008, -0/+4It's a memo from last year.
    • Vician, on 04/30/2008, -0/+3Considering, as you -should- have read, that the Memo they were 'wondering aloud' in was from August 2007, which was 8 - 9 months ago depending on the day, I wouldn't call that an unrealstic starting point for wondering about service integration.
  • TheMatches, on 04/30/2008, -8/+3Oh god it's all making sense now.

    It'll get pushed back to 2011 and will be the end of us all.
  • toastgodsupreme, on 04/30/2008, -16/+30What?

    Dammit, why can't they just give me an OS that does one thing... RUNS MY PROGRAMS.

    I don't need my OS to collaborate with my email, my friends, my family, my shoes, etc. I need it to be stable, I need it to be small, I need it to be compatible, I need it to be secure.

    I'm still trying to get used to Linux. This is a dual boot machine (XP/Fedora). But it's hard being that I've used Windows since the 3.1 days. If the next generation of Windows fails as much as Vista did for me, I may be moving to a pure Linux install afterall.

    Seriously, who are the devs at MS doing this stuff? Is this REALLY what they felt that Vista lacked and that's why it didn't sell well? Or maybe the PR dept overtook the dev guys and now they're running the show.
    • gradivus, on 04/30/2008, -6/+3The fanbois are digging you down.
    • synergye, on 04/30/2008, -4/+4toastgodsupreme, as far as I know building and improving products is a very standard business model. I would love to know what model you feel companies should follow instead.

      PS, based on your description of a perfect setup, I'm not sure why you ever left windows 2000, as XP is really(ideally) just a version of 2000 with more "features," and attempted improvements(whether they were or not is left to your interpretation).
      • Hangly, on 04/30/2008, -0/+6XP actually was a massive improvement over 95/98/ME though. NT technology was always better than the DOS-compatibles, and when we finally got it on the desktop it was a great day.

        I don't know what these Vista or Windows 7 improvements are meant to accomplish. It almost seems as if Microsoft thinks it's in the content business rather than the operating system business.
    • rrc589, on 04/30/2008, -2/+7"Dammit, why can't they just give me an OS that does one thing... RUNS MY PROGRAMS."
      Because Windows has to be everything to everyone.
      Like you said, if you really don't like it, use Linux. Not a big deal.
    • Hangly, on 04/30/2008, -1/+5Simple. Microsoft inherited a monopoly from IBM and maintained it for 27 years by squeezing competitors out of the market. They have never had to worry about what their user base wanted, ever. That's why they think they can foist PC-crippling misfeatures like WGA and DRM on people and not be concerned about them revolting.
      • daizaru, on 04/30/2008, -3/+2You know, people could bash Microsoft until the cows come home with fortuitous claims of them not caring about users and just robbing people. Quite frankly I have enjoyed XP and for the $150 I probably payed for it 7 years ago and the 3 more years I will get out of this single license I think I got a pretty good deal. Get over it, or switch to another OS.
        • Hangly, on 04/30/2008, -1/+3I'm not bashing Microsoft, I'm analyzing their business strategy.
        • init100, on 04/30/2008, -0/+4@Hangly

          To Microsoft fanboys, any criticism of Microsoft is simply mindless Microsoft-bashing. They think that Microsoft does not and can not have any flaws, and that's why no valid criticism can exist. Thus, any criticism must be invalid and is labeled as bashing.
          • Hangly, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1They would be very much at home living in China. China is infallable too.
    • daizaru, on 04/30/2008, -0/+5If you want minimalist and installing only what is crucial to you then stick to Linux, learn it well. Microsoft caters to many archetypes of user, primarily the low end user and business types. The advanced user can and will easily install/remove what he needs and that is expected, I'd rather not have them take the vista thing to new levels and branch out 27 versions of windows for all user Archetypes. I'll take the one day tops that it takes to clean up and optimize my system.

      Integration is awesome, I think if implemented well it could be promising. Don't get worked up by a vague memo from a year ago. Reserve judgment until you see it.
    • IllBeBack, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1Same reason you can't get a cell phone that only makes phone calls.
    • estvir, on 04/30/2008, -1/+3Windows has been capable of running programs since at least 3.1, who cares if they add a few little extra web tie-ins, it's where software+services (Web) are going anyway and for once, Microsoft is [almost] on the ball.
  • chrisbosh123, on 04/30/2008, -12/+7another windows OS? How about fixing all the bugs in the previous versions? Screw product ties, its like pilling ***** upon more ***** and just when the old ***** is beginning to clear away, new ***** comes out and piles higher and higher.

    o god... that video scarred me for life :(
    • soundman07, on 04/30/2008, -2/+3Patches fix bugs. New releases introduce features.
    • iofthestorm, on 04/30/2008, -2/+3Bugs? I keep seeing posts about how they should be fixing bugs, instead of adding new features (which, as soundman points out, is what new versions are for...) but I don't see any mention of what these bugs in Vista are, and whatever they are I haven't seen them in 6 months of running Vista x64.
  • a1lostnomad, on 04/30/2008, -3/+28I think Microsoft is really overestimating the size/power/profit of subscription web services built directly into the OS. Apple has done it for a while with .Mac and from what I've heard it's not exactly the must-have service that they thought it would be. I think the best option for Microsoft now is to focus on making good web tools that work no matter what OS your using (ala Google), AND a great operating system that plays well with lots of web services (not just Live stuff).
    • Vician, on 04/30/2008, -2/+14On the other hand, nearly all of the big Live services are free (or have free versions) and .Mac charges 99$ a year. If Apple offered .Mac for free, I think you'd see a lot more people singing its praise.
    • KMartSheriff, on 04/30/2008, -2/+5Couldn't agree more. Apple needs a swift kick in the balls from a competitor regarding .mac
      • CarzorStelatis, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1Amazon S3 (via Jungledisk) for backup and Google Mail/Pages for webmail and free webspace. Problem solved :)
  • gradivus, on 04/30/2008, -13/+4I wont ever buy a M$ product until I can get that awesome table computer they keep whoring for $10K for under $1K. Until then its pirate windows or Free BSD/Ubuntu/WINE for me. They can stick their $100 copy of a 7 year old XP CD right up their ass,and windows vista is worth maybe $20 new but Im not upgrading to run a damn OS when I dont play any new games. In short,***** you software whores,I get mine for free.
  • Kazbaeden, on 04/30/2008, -3/+6If it means integrating things like LiveMesh into Windows 7, I'm all for it.
  • Ranvier, on 04/30/2008, -9/+5If I wanted a computer to do all my ***** for me I'd get a Mac. I don't want all my ***** done for me the way someone else has planned, I want to do it the way I want to.
    • estvir, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1Than don't bloody use it, go use Linux and compile a kernel.
  • jsleno, on 04/30/2008, -0/+7Reading the article, it sounds like people will be able to log into a brand new PC with their existing Windows Live ID and have it work, without any account setups. In effect, I think it's making Windows Live the default PDC for all Windows 7 systems. I'm not sure how I feel about that...
  • digitallysick, on 04/30/2008, -3/+18they need to hire the xbox/zune team to create windows 7, seems those kids are the only ones that can get things right.
    • SpeedSteamBoat, on 04/30/2008, -0/+3Eh, I don't know about that. Both of those products have had their troubles (RROD, "Squarting", DRM, etc.) It seems clear to me that they are coming out to the same culture and philosophy as Windows. The difference is that Windows sits on huge piles of old code. XBox and Zune were able to start from scratch, and, being hardware, making large revisions between versions isn't such a big deal. Windows, not so much.

      At some point you need throw everything away and start over again, and I think until Microsoft realizes that Windows will continue to struggle for real strides in innovation and tangible improvements over past versions without a heavy price being paid elsewhere.
  • SPThom, on 04/30/2008, -4/+9Wow, lots of negative diggs on these comments... I don't often see the pro-Microsoft fanboys overpower the anti-Microsoft fanboys.
    • gradivus, on 04/30/2008, -5/+4Apple is only 10% of the total market,slightly above Linux/unix.
    • Hangly, on 04/30/2008, -5/+8This isn't fanboyism, it's astroturfing. There's a farm of diggers in India burying everything that looks like it might be critical of Microsoft and posting empty testimonials about how Microsoft "worked for them."
  • ConanTL, on 04/30/2008, -8/+10Note to self: Get another XP license while you still can.

    • KMartSheriff, on 04/30/2008, -3/+5Shut up already. We get it, you hate Vista.
    • TheWindBlows, on 04/30/2008, -4/+2You gonna get hacked.
      • bjornski, on 04/30/2008, -3/+2Just more FUD.

        Stop running those "porn password generators " and "game keygens" and you won't have to deal with nearly as many headaches as people keep complaining out.

        90% of Windows, no wait, ALL computer problems are created by the users themselves.
        • CarzorStelatis, on 04/30/2008, -1/+4OK, try doing an fresh install of Windows XP (original), connect it to the internet, and wait. I give you 30 minutes before it has some virus or another.
  • cheungroys, on 04/30/2008, -4/+7oh god... Microsoft is going to ruin Windows 7 by tie-ing every single MSFT product together. it would be like buying a retail version of the Bloated XP or Vista you get when you purchase it from HP or Sony or Dell or every other ***** computer manufacture. and seriously.... if theres no cool GUI with Win 7 or if it's bloated with *****... Apple, you just got yourself a new Customer. Don't disappoint me Microsoft. You already did with Vista Ultimate Extras. Don't let me down again. :'( ------ Also, Where are my god damn Extras?
    • CarzorStelatis, on 04/30/2008, -2/+3Just think, Windows Seven with all of Microsoft's built-in adware, AND THEN Dell get their hands on it. You'll need a 10TB hard drive just for all the crapware :P
  • SilverhammerMBA, on 04/30/2008, -3/+5I'm not a big hater of Microsoft. Most of the time I'm completely fine with my Windows XP. But I fail to see what's so exciting about this Windows 7 business. Why do I like Windows? Because it's the most widely supported OS out there which means that I can do a lot with it. As far as the actual features of the OS, Macs and Linux have Windows sort of beat. Windows Live sounds not like an interesting feature to enhance the OS, but just another product that Microsoft wants to force on us as an integrated part of the OS that we're forced to use because of compatibility. And what's with the short release cycle? XP has been around for over five years. Whereas Windows 7 will be released only four years after Vista. Meanwhile it's been over a year since Vista came out and it has yet to gain traction in the OS market.
    Vista got to ride high on the relative success of XP, but I think that it's going to be a different story for Windows 7 when users start getting more critical of Microsoft.
    • bjornski, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1I already use some of the WIndows Live services, and I like them a lot. Very useful, handy, easy to use, and rather well done.

      Making the OS work seamlessly with tools like what are offered in the Live Services would be great.
      • SpeedSteamBoat, on 04/30/2008, -1/+3Well that's all well and good for you, but what about the rest of us who couldn't care less about Live Services? My parents don't care about them. I don't care about them. None of my friends care about them. It seems to me the people who care the most about these services are all working in Microsoft offices (no pun intended).

        I think the point to remember here is that features like these are only meaningful to a limited number of the customers Microsoft already has. If they implement it the same way they have with past "integrated products" and more or less force everyone to deal with it in some way (WGA?), I think this could really begin to hurt any chance 7 has of redeeming Vista.

        I mean, just consider how many people pirate Windows. Obviously none of those people are interested. That's important because when you are selling an OS strength is in raw number of users, purchased or otherwise.

        I just don't believe any amount of Live Services or LiveMesh or Live [Feature] in Windows 7 is going change how people feel about it compared to Vista. If 7 does not address some of the real, core problems that have plagued Vista from launch, it's very likely it will sell even worse than Vista has.
        • chrispatterson, on 05/06/2008, -0/+0Where did you see that it was going to be included. I saw a bunch of ideas for better integration but nothing that said that you would have to have it or it would be installed by default. If anything we have see the live services team move fairly fast with compelling products that are working across OS versions.
  • Rewdog, on 04/30/2008, -3/+10So how many of you changed the default msn homepage that comes with Internet Explorer? Why?

    Do you really want your entire operating system pre-configured the same way?
    • drmsux, on 04/30/2008, -3/+3I also changed my OS X homepage from apple.com. So what's your point again?
      • SpeedSteamBoat, on 04/30/2008, -0/+2Apple.com isn't planned to be more or less the entire platform of OS XI Cougar (Or whatever it will be)
    • bjornski, on 04/30/2008, -4/+2You're acting as if they've removed the option to change your home page, and are FORCING you to use a default layout.

      Live itself is very customizable. What makes you think MS doesn't understand that their users like to customize things too. Not everyone will run a default setup, and you know that. I've heard of bashing MS for stupid reasons, but yours is really pathetic.
      • Rewdog, on 04/30/2008, -1/+4What quote in my comment leads you to believe I think they are "FORCING" you to use a default layout?

        I just asked if people really want to have their operating system pre-configured to use more and more microsoft services. In your case, the answer is yes, you want that. In my case, I rather have an operating system that is more cohesive. Some people like buying a new computer these days with tons of bundled preinstalled software. You aren't forced to live with that software hogging up your system resources, you can uninstall it. When I get a new computer however, I want it to start bare-bones, and I'll add the new features as I see a need for them.
    • estvir, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1I changed the default homepage on Mac OS and Ubuntu after I install both. OH THE HORROR.

      And if you use real world examples, like IE8, you'll know you'll be able to change the web services tie-in.
  • MrViklund, on 04/30/2008, -6/+3Interesting.
    It was only time before they would start to integrate Windows and Live together. It will give Windows Live a much greater exposure. I think most people right now have never even heard of Windows Live. For the most part, it's only the more techi people. I think this can be great.
    • bjornski, on 04/30/2008, -2/+2It's going to give the Google desktop apps a good run for their money.
    • SpeedSteamBoat, on 04/30/2008, -3/+2What's it tell you about Live that no one really seems to care about it?
      • MrViklund, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1What? I can't understand what you are saying.
  • Cherubim, on 04/30/2008, -6/+3XP x64 & Ubuntu 8.04 is all I need for now. Stuff Vista, Windows 7 and all the other frivolous garbage that Microsoft makes. They have lost the plot bigtime when it comes to client operating systems.

    • KMartSheriff, on 04/30/2008, -0/+3XP x64 is terrible. Even Microsoft lovers will admit that.
      • bjornski, on 04/30/2008, -2/+2No. But 3rd party support for it sure as hell is (especially drivers). I'd love to run it.
  • Hangly, on 04/30/2008, -3/+5Note to Microsoft:
    Please stop worrying about what your competitors (real or imagined) are doing, and start paying attention to what your customers want, and are asking for. There are reasons even life-long Windows users don't like you, and the biggest one is that you take them completely for granted.
    • chrispatterson, on 05/06/2008, -0/+0Again another comment about Vista being broken. The only thing broken about Vista was the crap driver support from some of the partners and annoying UAC. However, if application vendors and hardware vendors did their job as they have been asked those problems would not have hit users so hard. Microsoft made major improvements int eh core and drive model that have made them more secure and stable, that had an unfortunate effect of causing some problems with older hardware. People keep saying to abandon Windows and do something new, and we see what happens when MS tries to do that in stages.
  • TheBanch, on 04/30/2008, -4/+7WIndows XP runs fine. It never crashes unless I make it crash by opening up way too much *****. But my OS X crashes 50% of the time I try open up an avi file. I like both OS, I just think people give MS a hard time because they are a big target. But XP is a damn fine program.

    No one is denying that Vista was a mistake... not even MS. They're rolling out a new OS already.
    • estvir, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1Already? Right, because they waited years after each previous OS and than decided while having a cup of tea "Oh, fellows, possibly time to make a Windows successor"?

      No, you bloody oath. They started working on the next version before the new one was out and if you had half a clue you'd know that with some of the new people (Like Ray Ozzie) they've been changing development strategies, with the actual new code (Windows is more modular, new codebase, etc), etc you'd know 'quick' releases (If you review the time between previous releases you wouldn't be surprised with a 2-3 gap) aren't surprising in any way.

      But than again, you're an average Digg moron who hates "M$."
  • Jus7in, on 04/30/2008, -3/+3Seven is being released first quarter '09. Not sure what they're talking about.
    • niceyuk, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1LOL yeah right. I'll believe that when I see it.
  • Schmapdi, on 04/30/2008, -2/+7Wasn't Windows 7 supposed to be the Windows with the really small re-written from scratch kernel with the tiny memory footprint and the abandoning of legacy support for a lot of the old crap that has been around for too long. What happened to that Windows? This new Windows sounds like normal Windows but with more bloatware :(

    I do not want hotmail, MSN messenger, Yahoo anything, or really anything else intergrated into my OS. If I wish to use these services I will download them seperately and install them at my leisure. Please don't make them default features!
    • CarzorStelatis, on 04/30/2008, -1/+2If the "windows seven is modular" rumours are to be believed, I think there'll probably be a "windows live" module with IE, Mail, and Messenger. That would fulfill the integration stuff and also help to get the EU off their back.
    • estvir, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1No, it wasn't. Next to NOTHING has been said about Windows 7, let alone someone from MS saying it was suppose to be re-written blah blah.
  • lopla, on 04/30/2008, -1/+3Booting up Windows 7:

    FATAL ERROR: Windows 7 authentication server unavailable. Hit esc. to try again.

    BSOD
  • lovestospooge, on 04/30/2008, -0/+2This sounds somewhat like Plan 9 from Bell Labs...
  • fudged71, on 04/30/2008, -2/+2I don't know about you, but I'm not overly impressed with everything "Live"
    I mean, growing up with a hotmail account, and using MSN, after finding google, I'm not going back to that stuff. I love mah Gmail, and there really isn't any need for me to use MSN anymore with the facebook chat that came out last week on my network.
    As a whole, I guess it is good that they are integrating the services together, but I honestly don't give a rats ass, because I'm not going to use said integrated services. Windows 7 is going to have to be really freaking amazing, because the way I see it, Apple's market share is going to go through the roof. Sure, make them integrated, but do it well
  • cigawoot, on 04/30/2008, -0/+4I wish Microsoft would understand what an operating system really is. An OS isn't a bloated piece of ***** that does absolutely everything you could possibly think of. An OS is there to allow applications to communicate with the computer's hardware. If I wanted the ability to access "Windows Live" services, I should install that seperatly, the only things an OS should do is offer a GUI, certain core services, and basic applications such as a text editor.

    When Microsoft understands that bigger =! better, Windows won't suck as bad.
    • leaflord, on 04/30/2008, -0/+0Actually; they sort of admitted it at a dev conference (MIX?) recently; that "Vista is big" and "Windows 7 won't get any bigger" - or something like that..
  • cbeach, on 04/30/2008, -0/+4Microsoft pushed active desktops back in Windows 95 and it was a flop. Apple have pushed .Mac and it is failing. People want stable, compact operating systems. Web services should be a thin, optional layer at the application tier.
  • CarzorStelatis, on 04/30/2008, -0/+4What's that noise I hear in the background? Must be the EU Competition Commissioner revving up her chainsaw :P
  • cwa107, on 04/30/2008, -1/+3Buried as lame. Mary Jo Foley posing as a journalist is laughable. Anything she has to say or any claim she makes should be taken worth a grain of salt.
  • YodaJones, on 04/30/2008, -1/+1*****, who cares. By 2010 Windows will be irrelevant as a operating system.
  •  

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