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65 Comments
- chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -12/+36digg is like a pack of dogs. There is one leading the way and the rest are just following the *****.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+38"Damm Socialist Europe."
Stupid American communism. - bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -15/+36Actually it's because Microsoft is being anti-competitive. They are designing their system so it is not interoperable so in turn consumers will be forced to use and pay for their software. This is illegal in the US too, so I wouldn't go criticizing the EU for actually protecting its competitors.
Also don't forget that these rulings don't come from nowhere, Microsoft drags their feet and is generally as resistant to suggestion and law until they are forced to comply with these measures. - Crumble, on 10/12/2007, -12/+25The European Commission rightly says there is no innovation in Windows:
'The Commission's current view is that there is no significant innovation in these protocols,' European Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a statement.
http://www.rte.ie/business/2007/0301/microsoft.html - Stricker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Whoever keeps blaming Europe for this, you might want to keep in mind that this is EU warning Microsoft, and not Europe.
- ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Do you really want to have sex with a group of old men?
- Winston84, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12a humpingmonkey calling people " idiots " ?
You have just illustrated why large parts of the World are proud to be un-American . Kudos for that . - CedanticPunt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10haha... that was funny. For a second, I thought you were actually serious, but then I realised you were just being very sarcastic... oh wait, you weren't being serious were you?
- kitsimons, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Taco Bell and McDonalds don't produce their own Cola. The *crude* point was to illustrate using dominance in one market to give yourself an unfair advantage in another.
- Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The fact that you think HD-DVD is a Microsoft technology say's a lot about your level of knowledge in this area.
- kitsimons, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Microsoft has used its dominance in the Operating System market to gain an unfair advantage in other, unrelated markets (e.g. Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player and so on). That is unfair practice and that's what the EU's beef is.
Microsoft has had plenty of time to comply with the EU's ruling and it hasn't - hence we have more fines on the horizon. This has nothing to do with Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux. This is about other developers (Mozilla, Real Networks etc...) being able to compete on level playing fields. Playing fields (there are many) that Microsoft has tipped heavily in its favour because it produces the OS.
A crude analogy would be like WalMart refusing to stock Coca-Cola because it wanted to sell its own brand of Cola instead.
I say bring on the fines - it's the only thing that will get through to Microsoft. - bisserke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@evildudetx
The EU is NOT asking Ms to open their code.
Instead, they are asking to release the necessary information to ensure the USERS (yeah, like you...) can have a choice when buying products and their competitors can have a fair chance of building products that can interoperate with Ms products. - sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8The European Commission are doing something the DoJ should have done long ago. Kudos.
- WinGeek, on 10/15/2008, -4/+8Who the hell cares if they limit your choice on Windows. If you don't like the choices you have with Windows then you can switch to a Mac, Linux or maybe even Unix!
I think that a Mac has even more restrictions on choices because you are forced to use their hardware, their software, their music and movie store. If Apple was any larger there would be a huge antitrust uproar on how they are forcing people to use the iTunes store because it comes pre-installed on your PC. But I guess the closed apple world is ok for now since they are still small. Maybe someday Apple will be the next target of the EU. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+12"...that they cant include certain programs (...) in all versions of Windows"
remember . .windows runs on 95 % of all home-pcz. . .so . . that's what the call a monopoly. - Stricker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7People keep asking why it is it punishable for not be innovative. Remember this; Microsoft is a monopoly, they control a HUGE market of something that people use for organzing their entire lives. Monopolies must ALWAYS be controlled, so the consumer has an alternative choice.
- ray901, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@humpingmonkey
hmmm. such gross stupidity, displayed with such pride...
http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/div_stats/1638.htm
Please educate yourself and remove the ignorance from your life. - sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@oliveroms
I think *you're* the one with no clue what you're talking about. Naio21 nailed it on the head. I don't see how on earth you could look at all the development tools Microsoft has released an say "they don't want other people making stuff for their OS".
Drop your bias and come back down to reality. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@oliveroms: my friend, I think it is about time for you to turn off your MS-hating reality distortion field. I've never seen such a amount of ***** and lies in a single comment.
You are *this little* of meeting my block button. - honeymonster, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Un-American? But Microsoft has been convicted of monopolistic practices on multiple occasions by American courts. So by your thinking American courts are un-American. Nice.
- Eoxx, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9[Microsoft has said it would be charging for interoperability information because it was based on its own innovative work and protected by patents...
...
"The Commission's current view is that there is no significant innovation in these protocols," European Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a statement.]
Microsoft is sued cause it refuses to give interoperability info as free available information. Ms wants to charge for it... (Microsoft itself use free available protocol in Windows : for Web access for example ..)
Microsoft gives - no or bad information - for interoperability cause they fear that customers switch to other application based on cost reductions or better capability of other products.
Ms do that, not because their products are the best but because they want to do customer retention. That is what monopolistic view is : fear of concurrence (get rid of concurrence by buying it or destroying it => little innovation) and retention of users not by giving better products but by closing the customer perspective to Microsoft only world with closed format for user files for example.
If someone think another product (from company B) is better than a Microsoft one and buy it, he will either risk not being able to interact with its (for example) windows network(/applications) or pay a bigger price cause to give this interoperability the company B needed to pay Microsoft for using its technology.
Ps: This fine is not the biggest Europe has given in the past : Europe as given the biggest fine to lift manufacturers/installers for the creation of a cartel to get the highest prices possible on the market... They must pay one billion Eur but they have won more than that with their cartel...
Microsoft wins billions each month ... So this fine is really little in comparison with the profits ... - radiofrequency, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Even better article from fox news of all sources:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,255805,00.html
Microsoft is challenging the EU's original 2004 antitrust order at the EU's Court of First Instance. The 2004 antitrust order found the company broke competition law for abuse of a dominant position and fined the software maker a record euro497 million (US$613 million).
"It is the first time we have been confronted by a company which has failed to comply with an antitrust decision," said Todd. "We are in unknown territory." - dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5They are not being punished for not innovating, they are being punished for not letting others innovate where they have failed, but still charging a ridiculous amount of money for they uninnovative product.
- alexhuyalegzz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Unbelievable! M$ plays too hard....
- RayKi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0When the EU makes it difficult to compete against Airbus, we hear people complaining that the EU is being unfair to US businesses. When the EU hits Apple to support EU-based businesses, it’s unfair again. Yet, when MS gets hammered, it’s suddenly a good thing? The EU needs to stop hammering US businesses to favor their own companies and try competing with the US on a level playing field.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+15You are an idiot.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2So where are all the Apple fanboys, complaining about the injustice against MS. They were certainly up in arms when France and Norway suggested Apple was operating an illegal monopoly.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+13not after Vista :)
- xgunterx, on 10/12/2007, -10/+9@ naio21:
[quote]
WTF are you talking about? I can't run my Windows apps on Linux or OS X without some sort of emulation, can I?
[/quote]
It's not about code, but about data, protocols and interoperability.
MS always took their own way, like kerberos, Java, web-protocols, now again with ODF which is ISO-certified, you name it.
But the result was it was not compatible or exchangeable with the competition and the users where forced in an user lock-in. - Branden, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3"A crude analogy would be like WalMart refusing to stock Coca-Cola because it wanted to sell its own brand of Cola instead."
When I go to Taco Bell I can't buy a Coke. When I go to McDonalds I can't buy a Pepsi. Point of this post: crude indeed. - RoskMachine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Most anti-trust actions are actually drummed up by companies that are failing to compete. It's called "rent seeking," and it is the equivalent of staging a raid. I wouldn't be surprised if the anti-trust decision Microsoft is violating was planned out by its competitors, just as the case against it back during the 90's was completely planned by Netscape and its allies.
- EntropyFan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I think Apple is already a target for the EU. And for most of Europe, for that matter.
The main problem is that the EU (and the US for that matter) tends to use laws designed to protect customers and citizens to instead line their pockets. So it becomes difficult to tell when they are really sticking up for the little guy, or just sticking it to those that have deep pockets. Or when they are doing both. - sfacets, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3And you are a troll.
- valiko75, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3@tymerry
I guess my comment will be burried, but I was actually going to write the same thing. This is like the same battle between Microsoft and Apple on another level though: on the level of fans. I've seen a video recently where Jobs said "during the past five years we've done this (and five different Mac OS X's appeared on screen) and our competitor's done this (and the microsoft 'new' logo appeared)". The same thing is going on here: one side says "Hey, you're all idiots!"; the other side says "No way! You are idiots!". No sense at all. Everyone will choose an OS for themselves (I doubt, actually it would be Vista in any case).
If a third update appears, I guess the same useless thread will happen, and the news will come up on the front page. AGAIN! - tymerry, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Everyone is always downplaying one operating system(or company) or another. We have a working system. Let everyone use the operating system they want and stop forcing change on other people.
No one wants to read page after page of arguments between fan boys. The only thing these arguments accomplish is confusion due to the made up facts people throw around. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -31/+29I guess if it comes to Europe vs Microsoft, Digg will still chose Microsoft even though everyone here seems to be macfags and open source zealots. What hypocrites.
- chrispat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1How many copies did people in Europe buy of the version of Windows without a Media Player? Last I heard it was less than 2000. People want a computer they can use WITHOUT having to buy a bunch of applications. I find it interesting that it is perfectably acceptable for Apple to bundle all of that software with their computers and call it "Innovation" and to top it off you don't even have a choice of vendor. you have 1 and only 1 place to get Mac hardware.
- KingCook, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7Dummy translation:
Microsoft kills buyers choice by forcing their stuff down the throat of the consumer and making everything else work bad with their ***** by not providing these companies with the information they need to make their applications interoperate with the OS ... FACE IT microsoft has been playing this dirty trick for ages now... they limit choice, its what they do they are just trying to make more MONEY
Giant corporations like Microsft have a responsability that comes with being so large and so many companies depending on it to survive. They just play diry because they're becoming a big fat dinosaur incapable of evolving from their own ideas. So they prey on the rest of the industry to provide them with the ideas
Quote: Microsoft has said it would be charging for interoperability information because it was based on its own innovative work and protected by patents...
...
"The Commission's current view is that there is no significant innovation in these protocols," European Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a statement.]
Try to read this and think why should we shell out so much $$ for a fancy skin for XP and some warning bubbles that makes you think you're an idiot every time you're using your PC
thats not what I call innovation TBH - valiko75, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4Apple might have some drawbacks, and it does, but the system is more stable. And it has its users anyway.
- Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1That was their first tactic, but because it failed so badly they moved onto plan B, which was "Let's say Microsoft have to provide detailed documentation so their poor competitors can build products that work with M$'s evil software, it doesn't matter if the documentation is actually needed or not (the public and media won't know) " then when Microsoft provides the documentation "Lets say the information isn't good enough, we could get some bogus experts to say it sucks or something. Then we could say that M$ are deliberately dragging their feet, we could drag this out for years, we could even make loads and loads of money along the way. This is brilliant, this is much better than our last plan".
- baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -15/+12good, i hope the EU runs microsoft through the ringer...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+10xgunterx, MS exposes and documents gazzilions of APIs from Windows so everyone else can produce software to the platform.
Understand that: Windows (as any other OS) would be completely USELESS without 3rd part applications. MS want to make developers lifes as easy as possible, not the opposite.
What Europe intents is to force a foreign company to disclose their IP. That is unacceptable.
(BTW, I was born and live in Brazil) - Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1I get a strong feeling that Microsoft's competitors are taking advantage of the EU's ignorance. Do their competitors really need this documentation? or is this the only way they can get at and hurt Microsoft? If this information isn't needed, (which I strongly suspect) then I don't blame Microsoft for wanting to charge for it, why should they waste their time with this BS. I don't trust the european courts one bit, if they are anything like the european parliament then they are probably full of corruption.
- oliveroms, on 10/12/2007, -17/+13[quote]xgunterx, MS exposes and documents gazzilions of APIs from Windows so everyone else can produce software to the platform.
Understand that: Windows (as any other OS) would be completely USELESS without 3rd part applications. MS want to make developers lifes as easy as possible, not the opposite.
What Europe intents is to force a foreign company to disclose their IP. That is unacceptable.
(BTW, I was born and live in Brazil)[quote]
@naio
No offence dude, but uhm, you have no clue what you are talking about do you?
windows isn't THAT useless without 3rd party apps. You can have a 100% MS desktop, and still surf the web, play certain games, write documents at home or at the office. Do your financials, make home movies etc etc.
They actually don't want other people making stuff for their OS. They do share API's of course. They do need other products as a) they don't have EVERYthing yet, b) it be suicide at this time and point. They do make it not THAT easy to use their API's though, and, here's the big thing, they have some secret API's that only MS devs know how to use. Giving MS application an advantage.
Now about protocols and the like, you are so wrong, it's sad. the usual MS tactic is, take a protocol that works great, say kerberos or TCP/IP and maybe HTML. Everybody knows how they work, they are open standards etc. Get everybody to use it, since it's, such a great standard. Then, when everybody uses it, rape it. TCP/IP they just can't get away with, since to many servers internet wide use TCP/IP. But look at HTML. there's supposed to be a HTML standard, everybody but MS adheres to it. They ALMOST got away with raping HTML.
If you are unaware about these things, better start reading some more info on the subject. - Sc0rian, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6jeez will Microsoft have any money left?
- Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2What information do they need that isn't already available?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+11@humanseemer: which monopoly? Which inferior product? Are you talking about Apple or the FSF?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+9"Actually it's because Microsoft is being anti-competitive. They are designing their system so it is not interoperable so in turn consumers will be forced to use and pay for their software."
WTF are you talking about? I can't run my Windows apps on Linux or OS X without some sort of emulation, can I? - henrythehorse, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Microsoft: Zune, HD DVD, Vista, Xbox 360 all are crap and their competitors offer better alternatives. I hope this company crashes in flames.
- Evildudetx, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Personally I think this is a bunch of BS.
Why should they have to release their code to help their competitors? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
If someone is writing a application to run on a Windows platform, then you can easily get a lot of assistance and all sorts of tools from Microsoft.
As for innovation - who cares....they put out a product. If people buy it, then business goes on as usual. MS is not preventing anyone from coming up with a better OS. No one has done it yet. Linux is getting close, but it still isn't there. Apple screwed themselves out of the market a long time ago....... -
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