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Microsoft drops hints about Internet Explorer 8

arstechnica.com — At the Mix'07 conference, Microsoft employees discussed the future for Internet Explorer and what might be expected from IE 8.

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  • Nobiting, on 10/12/2007, -19/+109Microsoft has finally decided that they will never create a functional and unique browser and thus all new versions of Windows will ship with FireFox!
    • KuntaKinte, on 10/12/2007, -37/+28Microsoft needs to drop IE alltogether
    • adragons, on 10/12/2007, -17/+26@KuntaKinte
      Why would they do that? They still have the majority
    • bhavi, on 10/12/2007, -30/+4*delete*
    • bhavi, on 10/12/2007, -15/+87And all versions of Firefox should ship with AdBlock Plus
    • johnbellone, on 10/12/2007, -7/+31Not sure why any of your are advocating for Microsoft to drop the browser. Competition is (and always be) a good thing for both Microsoft and Mozilla. As a web developer I am hoping that Microsoft gets their rendering engine up to par (its getting better there's no denying that) so that those little hacks won't have to be done anymore. I use Firefox whenever I get the chance but when building websites you need to make sure that all of your community has a working product.
    • abid786, on 10/12/2007, -28/+15"Competition is (and always be) a good thing for both Microsoft and Mozilla.".

      Because the latest IE is just a copy of Firefox (just like the later iteration of Windows is a copy of some other OS ;-) . That isn't really competition, it is stealing....Firefox innovates, IE copies.
    • johnbellone, on 10/12/2007, -9/+39A copy in what sense? That they have tabs? That they are trying to fix their browser engines? News flash: Firefox isn't 100% CSS compliant and didn't invent tabbed browsing.
    • SomaSynth, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33"And all versions of Firefox should ship with AdBlock Plus"

      Be careful what you wish for. I don't think that's ever going to happen, for ridiculously obvious reasons.
    • fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21Firefox is never going to ship with Adblock. Firefox is funded almost entirely by Google. Google don't fund it for a giggle, they pay to be the default browser so when people search it's through Google and accompanied with advertisements.

      Adblock isn't just a threat to the sites you use, it's a threat to the browser you use too.
    • abid786, on 10/12/2007, -15/+4"Firefox isn't 100% CSS compliant and didn't invent tabbed browsing."

      But before firefox gained the market share it currently holds (think 2001-2), tabbed browsing was mostly unheard of and IE was the only browser (and that is IE6 too).
    • hdtvdust, on 10/12/2007, -12/+2Yeah, Kunta. And Apple should just drop their iPod line altogether too, since they haev a smaller marketshare (by far) than IE does, and their market share is decreasing at a faster rate than IE's is.
    • Gizza, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3I don't really understand why they don't just do that. They don't make any money off IE do they? Well maybe now by getting traffic to their search, but before 7 they wouldn't have been. All it was doing was costing them money to keep fixing all the problems it was causing.

      Mozilla could almost go as far as to make an agreement with MS to give them half of all profit made in exchange for being Windows default browser. The extra cash they would make from all those extra uses would definitely be more than enough to do that and still come out on top. And then everyone wins, both Mozilla and MS make more money, and Windows gets a better browser.
    • tech10171968, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30"But before firefox gained the market share it currently holds (think 2001-2), tabbed browsing was mostly unheard of and IE was the only browser (and that is IE6 too)."

      Wrong, for two reasons:

      (1) Tabbed browsing was not "unheard of" before Firefox. Opera had tabbed browsing. In fact, it was the *first* browser with tabs;
      (2) IE was _not_ the only browser. Opera started before Firefox was just a gleam in Mozilla's eye.

      In fact, many features that are considered standard in modern browsers originated with the Opera browser. the only reason it isn't more wodely used is because, until a year or two ago, you actually had to pay for it. That was probably not wise because Opera has never recovered from that mistake.
    • avasol, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22Meet the new Explorer. Same as the old one.
    • EndersGame, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Usually competition is good, but I would rather have all the other competition and leave Internet Explorer out the picture if I could. Unless they decide to play nice and not break the standards like they have up until now. And gizza wtf are you smoking? Mozilla gets its money from donations, there really isn't much of a profit to be had. And Microsoft doesn't make any money off of Internet Explorer, they offer it in hopes that people will prefer it and Windows over other operating systems that aren't compatible with it. Its too late for that, they should offer their office suite for free if they want to keep their userbase, right now they are gouging their customers left and right.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2[quote]And all versions of Firefox should ship with AdBlock Plus[/quote]

      Especially with the new Element Hiding extension to Adblock. No more looking through source code to block those stubborn DIV ads.
    • SavageBlackCat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17How can they focus on IE8 when IE7 is so jacked up?
    • diggcopblowme, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10“Microsoft’s biggest weakness is that they still don’t realize how much they suck.”

      -Paul Graham on blog entry, Microsoft is Dead

      http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html
    • Fhwqhgads, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Nobody is going to use M$'s new ***** burger of a browser.

      Not those who have a brain anyway.
    • Gizza, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Endersgame

      Mozilla make most their money from Firefox through Google paying them every time someone uses the built in Google search.
    • goatspanka, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1@tech, @abid said tabbed browsing was MOSTLY unheard of, you opera whoring dick.
    • Ryosen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Tech

      Opera has been free for many years. It had an ad-supported version that was available at no cost. You only had to purchase Opera if you wanted to support their development efforts or to get rid of the ads.
    • abid786, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"(1) Tabbed browsing was not "unheard of" before Firefox. Opera had tabbed browsing. In fact, it was the *first* browser with tabs;
      (2) IE was _not_ the only browser. Opera started before Firefox was just a gleam in Mozilla's eye.

      In fact, many features that are considered standard in modern browsers originated with the Opera browser. the only reason it isn't more wodely used is because, until a year or two ago, you actually had to pay for it. That was probably not wise because Opera has never recovered from that mistake."

      I have been using Opera since version 5, so I know. I was just saying that the tabbed browsing wasn't mainstream.
    • foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@johnbellone
      How do you test for IE6 and 7 at the same time? Dont you need to uninstall 6 to install 7?
    • Theli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@fkr3
      "Firefox is never going to ship with Adblock. Firefox is funded almost entirely by Google. Google don't fund it for a giggle, they pay to be the default browser so when people search it's through Google and accompanied with advertisements.

      Adblock isn't just a threat to the sites you use, it's a threat to the browser you use too."

      Regardless, I think you would be hard pressed to convince anyone who has used Firefox with Adblock PLUS installed to switch over to a web browser that doesn't have something similar to offer. Internet Explorer already has the group of users who are either not aware of the alternatives or who has never had any inclination to switch browser, but I don't see a lot of Firefox users switching back to IE though.
    • specialK16, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Adblock isn't just a threat to the sites you use, it's a threat to the browser you use too."

      So what, makes browsing smoother.
  • Simplogic, on 10/12/2007, -10/+40*****. I thought maybe they would've learned something from their past IE blunders... KIDDING! We all know Microsoft learns nothing from past mistakes.
  • meshman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26What?! I haven't finished the freaking IE7 upgrades yet.
    • armbar, on 10/12/2007, -8/+70No worries; it'll be another 6 years before IE8 is completed.
  • ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -5/+53no ActiveX would be a good start...
    • MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -18/+9Under Vista, IE is so sandboxed that ActiveX really can't pose a threat to the system, at all. As an Admin, most programs in Vista run as a User, IE runs even lower, and more protected than that.
    • GTanaka, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23Security matter or not, ActiveX is just a plain annoyance. I for one would be happy to do without.
    • subxero37, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12It shouldn't *have* to -- look at Firefox, it runs as a normal, same-privilege program with the same credentials as the user who spawned it. Microsoft shouldn't have to tweak a ton of crap to get security to be ... secure. They should just fix it as it is, not find more workarounds.

      If the problem is ActiveX, they could at least rewrite parts of the COM/ActiveX code, rather than just leaving old unpatched code in the OS.
    • Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9your forgetting, the people who click links like "How to ad 30" to your penis"
      and "get rich just by clicking this" are primarily IE users
      who then call up MS (or other companies) and say
      "your crappy software got me all infected and stuff and you suck and fix it now"

      basically MS has to make their software retard proof*10 (cause the universe just keeps building bigger and better idiots)
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7[quote]It shouldn't *have* to -- look at Firefox, it runs as a normal, same-privilege program with the same credentials as the user who spawned it.[/quote]

      It's also CROSS-PLATFORM, can run as a self-contained portable app off a USB key, and has great expansion capabilities.

      IE has absolutely nothing on that, no matter how close it's performance may be to Firefox.
  • troydoogle7, on 10/12/2007, -11/+35A MS developer was whispering that they were looking forward to firefox 3 and opera 10 to find out what new features ie8 would be able to knock off badly....

    oh yeah and it will pass the acid 2 test (microsofts internal one.....)
    • salmonmoose, on 10/12/2007, -10/+7Like firefox2 knocked off IE7's RSS subscription model? :)
  • Gooie, on 10/12/2007, -16/+61The only people who use IE anymore are people unaware of Firefox.
    • nymphetamine, on 10/12/2007, -9/+35...or Opera.
    • sid0, on 10/12/2007, -19/+9You couldn't be wronger.

      Firefox is glacially slow.

      Opera is fast, but hasn't opened its API to external toolbars.

      IE7 itself is slow, and doesn't have too many features, so I use Maxthon, a browser that uses the IE engine, while adding security, customisability and speed to the interface. I've tried everything, and I use it by choice.
    • fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -22/+7Nobody can use the internet and be unaware of Firefox after 4 years of constant, widespread spam and propaganda about it being posted everywhere.

      Just accept it - people know about Firefox and they choose to use other browsers.
    • hdtvdust, on 10/12/2007, -18/+0Wow...you are sad. And delusional.
    • cr1t, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7I switched to firefox from IE6 and when IE7 came out I switched back, it's working great for me and I enjoy it!
    • Gizza, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Actually, he is correct. If you use Opera or any other browser, there's a good chance that you're not unaware of Firefox, so his statement still holds true.

      "Nobody can use the Internet and be unaware of Firefox after 4 years of constant, widespread spam and propaganda about it being posted everywhere."

      You could not be more wrong. Just because people like us who are on the Internet for about 26 hours a day and see Firefox everywhere doesn't mean everyone will know about it. I know plenty of people who don't know about it, even after I've told them about it, they're still to computer illiterate to understand.
    • TexanPsycho, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3Firefox is only slow to those with crappy computers. I use Firefox everyday with about 100 tabs open. I barely notice it.
    • fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7If you use any forum, blog, message board, mailing list or anything where people are able to post messages, you've likely heard of Firefox.

      Try these google searches ...
      +"pet forum" +"get firefox" returns 92 results.
      +"parenting forum" +"get firefox" returns 134 results.
      +"car forum" +"get firefox" returns 1160 results
      +"health blog" +"get firefox" returns 2750 results

      This is far from a conclusive test, but none of those genres have anything at all to do with web development or IT. Firefox has been mentioned pretty much anywhere that allows users to post messages.
    • sid0, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@TexanPsycho: So my computer is crappy (and it is). Should I change my computer or should I change my browser?
    • sirdaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@fkr3
      "Firefox has been mentioned pretty much anywhere that allows users to post messages"

      Or the forum admin has put the advert on the forum, and the users don't take any notice of it as it is not what they are on the forum for.
    • Smokersroom, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"I use Firefox everyday with about 100 tabs open."

      For porn, perhaps?
    • ZeroMP, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Yeah but... isn't Internet Explorer "the internet"?

      Will I still be able to get on the google if there is no Internet Explorer icon on my desktop, quick launch and start menu???

      I don't want to hear/learn about this "Firefox" - it sounds scary and confusing. I just want to keep eating the same *****-sammich I first learned how to eat ***** on. I fear change. MSoft taught me that IEXPLORE.EXE is the internet.

      /sarcasm

  • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -11/+29Just download a Firefox 3.x alpha if you want a preview of IE8.
    • supersaw, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16I'm running 2.0.0.3 I'm already previewing IE8
  • MrPresident13, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9uh oh, it's another chance for Firefox to showcase their skills.
    • fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Yes ... like last time. I mean, IE 7 is slower and chews more memory than Firefox 2. And it has a long history of memory leak/retention issues.

      Or something.
  • AydenV2, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2If they want IE8 to succeed, DO NOT PACK IT WITH A BUNCH OF UNWANTED ADDITIONS. Let the users download them at will for free, only then will IE be a decent alternative.
    • benitojuarez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16What unwanted additions does IE7 have aside from the stupid WGA check when you install it.
  • ArandiaT, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3IE really needs to include the ability for users to develop their own features, as with Firefox's add-ons. This is a good part of the reason that Firefox is far more innovative - they have a far larger talent base to draw on, and they don't have to pay them anything!
    • gnufan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1IE has had the ability for people to develop add-on features for ages.

      The skill level required is slightly higher than for Firefox.

      I think the issue is more that those who know what they are doing are using Firefox (or other non-IE browser), and so most people aren't that interested in developing for IE, except during the day job when someone else is paying for all the required tools.
    • chrisbarr, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1no, then that would encourage people to use IE, and we really don't want that.
    • CarzorStelatis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Not true. Even if you count every person who has released a theme as a 'Firefox developer', Microsoft still has more people working on IE. Which I suppose makes it kinda sad - a bunch of paid professionals should be able to blow a smaller number of amateurs out of the water in terms of software quality. They haven't - who is going to get fired for that? (please let it be Ballmer!)
  • consonance, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27Internet Explorer 8: Almost standards compliant!
  • jmgtan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13now we'll have to invent a new set of css hacks!!
  • benitojuarez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30"The new version may also include more options for user interface customization, as that was one of the biggest criticisms of IE 7, and one which the developers often blamed on lack of time. "

    Lack of time?

    WHAT THE *****?!?!?
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12At least they didn't say lack of funds.

      "We need $2 billion more to make a browser. Why? Umm... high oil prices?"
    • Projektorboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"WHAT THE *****"

      I said the same thing my friend. IE6 came out in August 2001. IE7 came out in October 2006. When your devs are used to a 5+ year dev cycle between releases I guess 18 months really is too much to ask.
  • carty01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Last year at techEd Microsoft was talking about reducing the development cycle of IE and had mentioned then that they were aiming for a 12-18 month development cycle.
  • Thex1138, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Proves once again that Microsoft are reactive not proactive.
    • hdtvdust, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1How?
    • tech10171968, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16How? Simple: if Firefox had not come onto the scene and started stealing marketshare from IE, do you think there would even be an IE7? At the time, IE was being used by more than 95% of the world: Microsoft saw no need to be innovative and improve the browser. IE7 came into existence only because Firefox lit a fire under their a$$es to get up and do something.
  • Jalaxians, on 10/12/2007, -15/+9Are you all teenagers? Step into the real world - IE is OK, Firefox is OK - stop with all the Microsoft bashing - if it wasn't for Microsoft then people like Mozilla would not have put so much effort in!

    Honestly, it is like listening to the open toed sandals brigade - I know what - lets all just use Green Screens and Unix syntax - everyone now happy??? Bollocks!
    • BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Hi, I think you might have mistaken digg.com for "habbo hotel".

      Took a wrong turn at AOL chat, eh?
    • EvilCowSan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I respected ie as a decent browser until i started doing web design. Then i realized that IE brutalizes multiple web standards making good code practices a waste because you're most likely going to break some rules trying to keep your pages looking the same on ie.

      Altho, if ie8 brings us one step closer to ie6 dieing then i'm all for it.
    • techmonkey4u, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@Jalaxians

      Because IE sucks so much, people like me have to take more time to make cross-browser compatible front-ends for software.. which costs money.. to businesses like my employer. Can't get much more "real world" than that. Teenagers, indeed.
  • ruddy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3i hope they can finally get HTML down right. I hate having to code a website for 2 browsers, when the HTML displays correctly on firefox. look at http://www.kenmcnatt.com using firefox (which displays it correctly) and then IE.
    btw if you know how to fix this please tell me, its a pain in the ass and it still wont line up right
    • b_timmins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Try setting your doctype etc to Strict instead of Transitional so IE doesn't try to interpret too many of its quirks.
    • h0f5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1From my experience with working with IE positioning bugs, the easiest thing to do when you have no idea what is going wrong is wrapping everything together in a div and trying out the different display properties, BLOCK, INLINE and TABLE. It practically always works.
    • feedmecereal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You should try validating your page first:
      http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fkenmcnatt.com

      Also, remove the flash.
    • schnuck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1jesus, you are still using tables for layout and cant make the sight display right?
    • schnuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1just owned myself: sight = site
    • ruddy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1thnx ill try that
    • ZeroMP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yikes dude that site is scary as hell. I would definitely lose the flash ...and the creepy preacher dude.

      I don't see why you are writing that page with an XHTML doctype.

      Stick to HTML 4 if you are going to use tables and no style sheets.
      Having 51 lines of validation errors is probably not helping.
  • Karted, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10It will be just as crappy as ever. Firefox rocks.
    • sid0, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6Sure it does. It's as slow as a rock. Definitely.

      Apart from that, I can't really say anything against it.
    • diggcopblowme, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3sid0, what color is the sky in your world?
    • sid0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Right now it's grey, because it's raining outside. Why do you ask?
  • cookiecaper, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Microsoft keeps IE around so that they can break stuff; they want to give developers more headaches with web development so that they instead develop for Windows; the only reason anyone buys Windows is so they can run the programs they want to run on it. Yeah yeah, I know they have ASP and all that, but they still want Windows development more. A WinForms interface is far easier to code than an ASP.NET one and that is not an accident.

    Other than sabotaging the internet, IE offers no strategic advantage for them, and there's no reason for them not to ship Firefox (other than keeping open-source obscure, but this is highly futile).
  • RunningRabbit, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2WOW IE 8!?!?! NO WAY... I thought they wouldn't make any more.....

    What kind of a lame story is this?
  • TexanPsycho, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I predict that it will suck incredibly, but appear to be more compliant than its predecessor.
  • punkrock4life, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8MSIE 8 will still probably not be standards compliant and will not be any easier to use.
  • aspoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I don't understand why you guys complain about IE8 not being standard compliant. Every MS product is standard compliant -- MS's OWN standard. It's the rest of the world that's not following the one, true standard.

    Now only if every OS out there implements UAC... ARGH!
    • Daniel0, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Tip: You can disable UAC ;)
    • aliguana, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3yeah, you can switch UAC off. First thing I did, and Vista is all the better for it.
  • InSectWar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Ugh.. i finally tried IE7 because we got the upgrade from 6 for it at work. I went nuts with what they did to the top bar... Moving the Stop and Refresh buttons to the right of the address bar and made the buttons really small too.
    Also more annoying was moving the File Tools Help etc.. main toolbar which is usually at the very top, i couldn't believe they moved it BELOW the address bar.. it looks retarded. I moved it back to where it belongs with a simple and handy registry change. Even the Tabs in IE7 feel weird.
    • dellis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Digg this ***** up. Microsoft needs to take their current crop of UI designers, take them out back, and shoot them all.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Too late to shoot Vista's UI designer, he already quit:

      http://digg.com/microsoft/Vista_UI_Designer_Quits
    • Optimaximal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It's not too late to shoot someone until they're already dead.
    • SalemSaberhagen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Completely agree! I downloaded IE 7 earlier this week and am surprised at how 'upside-down' everything is. Buttons are flung on opposite ends of the the toolbar, it makes no sense to have the main toolbar on the bottom instead of up the top.....it looks like some kid hacked into the program and moved things around the place with the mouse then saved it. I hate it and can never remember where the damn buttons are because they're never in the logical places. I wonder if its possible to revert back to IE 6? Because not only is it so ANTI-user friendly, it clogs your system down slower than 5 copies of Norton on your system. The amount of times it has just 'hung' on the searching thing and has caused me to Alt-Ctrl-Del and close it and dumprep is amazing. My computer isn't a 10 year old dinosaur either. It is old, but not ancient. Surely a browser shouldn't be THAT heavy and slow.

      As for fire Fox and all the others, if its not Microsoft, then, its like a generica brand or something to me. I may not be a computer expert, but I stick with the trusted, tried and the large well-known companies. I've read so many comments on many web-boards 'oh, I'm going through FireFox so I can't use these smilies' or it won't let me do this or go into that. I'm always suspicious of unknown small things, I like and trust the BIG companies, and Microsoft is the real thing so.... Microsoft gives me the shats, but, at least its the devil you know vs....... I aint going to waste my time on some small-time unknown thing that often isn't compatible with MSN boards or Office or this or that. If it causes conflicts or trouble with anything, it aint worth my time. As I said, the devil you know.
      All I want is to revert to IE 6 (which I'm about to try) and then I'll be happy. In the meantime, it'll probably take me 5 mins for this to send with IE 7.
    • InSectWar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Here is how to put the main toolbar back on top... its actually quite simple

      If IE is opened, close it before doing anything
      Start your registry editor (Start -> Run, type regedit in the run field and press OK)
      Browse to HKEY_CURRENT_USER Software Microsoft InternetExplorer Toolbar WebBrowser and be sure that the WebBrowser key is selected
      Right-click the right part of the registry editor, select New->DWORD Value, and name it "ITBar7Position"
      Double click that new value, and assign it with a decimal value of 1
      Restart IE7, and bingo ;)
  • sdcarter, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17IE7 - Tabs
    IE7.? - COLORED TABS & THEMES
    IE8 - A red button that closes all the pop-ups that get past it's "security features"
    IE9 - Whatever Mozilla comes up with beforehand
    IE10+ - Whatever Opera comes up with beforehand because the folks at Msoft are finally tired of being compared to Mozilla and want to try something "different"
    • notnoisy, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3Funny. I use IE7 on all my computers, and have FF2 as well. IE7 never shows me any unwanted popups. FF2 does.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10[quote]Funny. I use IE7 on all my computers, and have FF2 as well. IE7 never shows me any unwanted popups. FF2 does.[/quote]

      You aren't fibbing, are you? That wouldn't be very nice.
    • natenovs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Funny. I use IE7 on all my computers, and have FF2 as well. IE7 never shows me any unwanted popups. FF2 does."

      same deal with me. i get a lot of pop ups with FF2. none with IE7.
      also, no matter how many times I tell FF2 to force new windows into a new tab it still doesn't do it. ive switch back to IE because FF2 is a giant leap backwards for the Mozilla team
  • Cherubim, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9IE7 is just as bad as IE6. Standards compliance is woeful with the browser still susceptible to malware alttacks on a large scale. Only a moron who doesn't value their privacy would use IE7 over Firefox.

    • aliguana, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6unfortunately, in their corporate dance with the devil, some companies still make sites that only work properly in IE. I'm looking at banks and such here. Its getting better, but its still there. Its down to educating the corporate programmers that you CAN use non-Microsoft products and not be hacked to death. Infact, if you don't want to be hacked to death you're better off using non-MS products lol
  • diggcopblowme, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Wow.
  • bigt8r, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Wow...If they are considering IE 8, that must mean that IE 7 is "complete"??? If IE 7 is "complete", then I hope that doesn't mean Vista is "complete" too...
  • polyGone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Maybe they'll try that whole web standards compliant thing..........
  • noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7They need to let IE 6 die first... I'd rather not learn a third set of hacks to get all three to render the page properly.
    • gnufan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1IE6 won't die till Microsoft support it on older platforms, or someone writes a virus that "installs Firefox, and runs Windows Update", or upgrades then to some other OS.
  • CountryBoyRI, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The browser elitism in the comments here is absolutely breathtaking.
  • ZeroMP, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3FTA: "Microformat support is scheduled for Firefox 3, so IE 8 will have to include them in order to keep up."

    Oh yay. I suppose this means we can look forward to a hastily-implemented *****-feature that doesn't work right or conform to standards? Developing for Opera/Firefox/whatever is so nice and then having to build crutches out hacks, love, and duct tape just to make MSofts trashy browsers work sucks.

    I just hope they do something about their broken-ass scroll-wheel zoom that shrinks some objects and leaves others in place thus scattering ***** all over the place. Opera has the same damn feature but somehow theirs works properly. I'm sure this is just because Opera has sooooooo much more money / resources than Microsoft and all... but I'm just saying..

    Try out IE with the Acid2 test - it is hilarious. FFox fails too - but does a lot better. Opera kicks ass all over it of course.

    http://webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html

  • airquotes, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Out of curiosity, here on digg it seems that saying MS steals from mozilla is fine, but saying the gui for vista was stolen from apple is not ok, why is that?

    Is it because people love mozilla but those who dont use apple computers hate them, and therfore refuse to accept the argument that MS steals ideas from them?

    Please respond instead of blindly digging down, this is a legitimate question.
    • natenovs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2because the gui design was not stolen from apple.
      it looks like windows, with some transparent glassy effects.
      i dont see a dock. i dont see expose. i dont get widgets flying all over the place. i dont see a universal menu bar at the top of the screen. i do see two mouse buttons. and i do see the ability to close an application by clicking the red button on the top corner of it.
  • Delta009, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Firefox rocks
    IE s...
  • BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'd be happy with one that just follows the standards and has full png support.
  • JoeDiggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2 Has anyone really considered what the consequences of a large majority of people blocking ads are? Ads are a main source of revenue for a lot of companies (and the web sites that need adspace for money) and having no ads will literally cause some companies/websites to become non-existant due to a lack of funding....Do we really want that?
    • probinu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Joe, I agree. But the way sites handle ads is what bothers me. Digg makes cash off ads but they are not in my face, or popping up.
    • TimTheSloth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You're exactly right Joe. Aside from popups and ads that make sounds by default I find most ads don't cause me much grief at all and in turn keep the sites I like to visit in business. Blocking ads on a large scale is really detrimental to the web as a whole, especially in the so-called "2.0" era.
  • ikkebra, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Has it been 10 years already?
    • plantperson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Yes, I'm surprised how soon this is happening too.
  • BevansDesign, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Yarr, firefox rulez, ie sux

    That's how you get diggs these days, isn't it?

    I can't believe I actually came to this page expecting to see some thoughtful discussion, instead of the usual biases. Oh well.
  • mmmgood, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2How about they just scrap their crappy code and use Webkit? That ought to save them a few bucks.
  • Happy_Phantom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I hope they discontinue IE on WIndows like they did on Mac OS.
  • imaref, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  • usacomputertec, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0All you need to do to avoid all the problems of IE, Windows, and Mac Viruses is switch to Linux. To learn more just go to www.mindblowingidea.com you can even download a copy there. It has MORE FEATURES, NO VIRUSES, MORE COMPATIBILITY WITH 64 BIT and 128 BIT COMPUTERS THAN WINDOWS OR MAC! IT RUNS FASTER! IT"S FREE AND SO ARE ALL THE PROGRAMS FOR IT!
  • GreedKills, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3...in other news, Microsoft announces there will be another version of Windows and Office
  • AtHomeBoy2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1FireFox 1.0 was launched Nov 9, 2004. SInce then, not only has it grown, it has grown beyond IE and now IE is catching up. How interesting....
    • cookiecaper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Unless you're talking about adoption rates, you're very, very wrong. IE's marketshare was over 90% before Fx 1.0, but it's still hovering just below 80%; Firefox is only now approaching 20%.
  • m1k3d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was at mix and had the chance to be in this breakout session and Chris Wilson did not have any good news about IE8 or even a roadmap to give an example of what microsoft is doing. In my opinion it was basically a session on: This is what we did wrong and yes we refuse to fix it.
    IE developers motto:"Do not Break the web"
    However Chris Wilson and team you are far from the standards set forth on the web. At least for the Web developers.
  • flamebot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i use these stories to block out firefox fangays

    Opera FTW
  • flamebot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 techmonkey4u

    you are obviously a lame web designer
  • CarzorStelatis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I use Firefox, I also like IE7. If Mozilla stopped maintaining Firefox (and nobody else took up the job) I could happily use IE7 as my main browser. Shall we dispense with the 'my e-penis is bigger than your e-penis' browser wars please?
  •  

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