What is Digg?113 Comments
- sallos, on 10/11/2007, -2/+84he said a bit more then that.. such as that people work constantly at google and have lower salaries. How can you have a decent family life if you are eating all meals at google and working all waking hours? Thats why its focused at college aged workers which is fine, he is just giving his comparison and apparently MS was a better match for his lifestyle.
- nobogeys217, on 10/11/2007, -14/+85So, where do I sign up? I want to work at google now.
- davin510, on 10/11/2007, -4/+68I don't think that's what he's saying at all.
He praises the free food (which he suggests MS adopt), dental, laundry, gym, and free Google T-shirts
He notes that the 20% own project is poorly implemented
He points out that the health care, pay, office space, and career development path is worse than MS's
He explains that Google offers college kids great job perks, mid-timers job stability and better management, and old-timers full utilization of all perks and a sense of belonging
Overall, I think the author did a good job de-mystifying the Google workplace a bit - jerrylin, on 10/11/2007, -12/+70I know people working at both places it seems pretty accurate. Notice though that at the bottom of the blog MS people are spamming "You ***** idiot! This was for internal only now you've ruined it!". Maybe that says more about the culture of MS than the article.
- bluedig, on 10/11/2007, -47/+92The author tells you that the free perks such as spend 20% on your own project, all-you-can-eat meals, free T-shirts, on-site health care, dental care, laundry service, gym, etc are bad for you and only needed by college kids.
This is even beyond spin job. - chaosmachine, on 10/11/2007, -1/+38google seems to be very much like the corporations described in william gibson's novels.. you live at the company, they take care of everything, and "it’s hard to think about leaving"..
- SupaFupa, on 10/11/2007, -0/+25"Never tell someone outside the family what you're thinking" - Don Corleone
- gagan97, on 10/11/2007, -8/+33after reading this blog i will feel more comfortable working at google..
google gives what techno-college-kids need... that creative bunch of people dying to show the world they can change the world , but all they want is take care of other things for them while they are working this is what google's policy seems to be. - ASSHO, on 10/11/2007, -2/+25I visited my cousin at her Google office once. The cubicle complex is a zoo. I would HATE to work in that kind of environment, and I wouldn't ever be able to get anything done.
The common theme I hear about working at Google is that you will work like hell for beans, because you love Google, and they give you a lot of free *****. ***** that. I want to get PAID. I don't want to stay at work all day and night because there is free soda and *****, just give me whatever you guys are saving on that ***** and I want to go home. - theonlyvlad, on 10/11/2007, -0/+23Nah it's you who's spinning. Those things *are* nice if work is your life. And that fits in with the iconic Google status. "I work at google" is somewhat of almost a social state among geeks, no? But if your task is to work to earn money for the life OUTSIDE of the building, then all those things are simply ways to cut the actual money you receive and still placate you.
- murty, on 10/11/2007, -3/+24Forwarding to my boss now!
- dorath, on 10/11/2007, -4/+23The one part of the article that really says something is this: Microsoft used to have the culture that Google has now.
- kevincross, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19he also spoke highly of google's it department and was critical of microsofts. if it was all spin do you think they would have put that out?
i think thats the whole point of the article. microsoft is a more transparent company in many ways that other big tech companies. - jonintc, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17I saw this yesterday and decided to post with my observations as a college grad working at Intel
http://www.digg.com/software/Life_At_Intel_Response_to_Life_At_Google_A_Microsoft_Perspective - luckyllama, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16OMG I want a tech shop... we have one developer in my department working on a 1.4 GHz P4 with 512 MB RAM... my own machine, with slightly better specs, took 5 hours to instal VS2005 SP1... we bill developer time at $160/hr so that's $800 I could have been made for the company. But I can't seem to convince management that it would save money to spend a little money on new hardware.
Uh, yeah. I would take working at either google OR microsoft. - Gatesophile, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13Digg was originally a tech news site. So a lot of the older users naturally gravitate towards more tech-focused news. If you don't like it, remove the tech section from your profile.
- tony4moroney, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13bluedig, well obviously you didnt read it properly. it wasnt anything like a spin job. it was a fair comparison. he even suggested there were positive things about google that microsoft should adopt, and simply said that googles lifestyle was more suited towards a younger working population, a demographic which he doesnt belong to. learn to ***** read.
- adidos, on 10/11/2007, -10/+21Envy is a waste of time. ~Author Unknown
- ours, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Indeed. Some people may complain about the negative view of this article towards the perks. But I find it disturbing that a company wants to fuse your private life with the corporate life so much. I like both nice and separate please. Those who prefer the perks, all the better for them.
- steelese, on 10/11/2007, -4/+15The problem I have with this document is that it is worded a little too carefully. No, I can't give an example, it is just a gut feeling. I work in PR and this is the kind of thing you let out into the wild to make it seem more legitimate. It is a difficult thing to quantify, but there is a character about the whole thing that feels canned.
- etnu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Consulting jobs are also the ones that tank the most quickly when the economy gets rough. Things seem rosy now, but ask anyone who was doing that kind of work in 2002 what things were like (it's worth noting that, even during the crash, very few of the big tech companies laid off technical staff).
- Barlo_Mung, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10"Uh, yeah. I would take working at either google OR microsoft."
Then go for it. Both are hiring all the time.
Seriously, You are the creator of your own future. If you want more go out and get more. - noamchomskeet, on 10/11/2007, -6/+16Having worked at both places as an intern. Did two summers at MS and 1 at Google (never got an Apple job offer though), I can tell you that this is a very fair and accurate representation of the two companies. Microsoft used to be like what Google is now, a very flat-hierarchy organization, but because they grew so fast and so big, a lot needed to be changed to help MS employees have some form of career growth. Basically, you need to have hierarchy to have career growth because it makes it much easier to rank employees and let them see what their future could be based off levels, titles, salaries, etc. Google will eventually turn into MS in order to facilitate this and very soon in fact.
Now, I work as a consultant, and will tell you that this is the best job. The pay is 120k with 30% bonus each year that's only 3 years out of college with only an undergrad degree, work about 60-75% of the year, with many months of "beach" time (basically sitting at home chilling), and the network you create on projects will allow you to go back into industry at ridiculously high levels (Director, CXO levels). These techy jobs are meant for college kids who thrive on working many hours to implement useless features in apps that ultimately don't change society at all. - bobcrotch, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Totally.
It would be really cool to score a good job with Google but for me I don't want my life to be work even if it is really cool. I don't want to take a hit on salary due to perks that I would never use or want. Of course this is a reason why I haven't really tried to find a job at a company that has this mentality.
It's kind of silly to read a writeup like this and assume the guy is bashing Google or that he's jealous. He's comparing the good and the bad with MS and obviously they would both have different perks. - anamanaman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9The 20% time idea at google was the work of an evil genius. Work 20% of the time on your own stuff (in addition to 50 hrs a week for your project team), and we'll own all your work and give you a big bonus (.001% of the profits) if it turns into a real product.
Still, I totally respect Google even if I'd never work for them (who needs a 50% pay cut...). As a consultant hopping around every 3-6 months, I've seen so much corporate ***** that Google just sidesteps. Happy employees mean huge savings in turnover. Google does such obvious *****, with no concern for the cost since they know the investment will bring back returns 10fold. Contrast that to one of my employer's company-wide announcement that the pop machines prices were raising by 10cents. Or when it takes 1 months to get approval for an extra gig of ram. Or when they took away dual monitors from some of the devs since they didnt have enough for everyone thus no one could have them... ahh... this list goes on and on. - byronm, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9When I was 25 years old I probably would have considered Google, but not anymore. I worked at Oracle for a while and in its heyday I not only had free food, sodas, healthcare, snacks, free time and but I travelled the globe, had a nice salary and a per-diem on top of that. I was a one man army but then it dawned on me I was a one man army for the corporation and was doing NOTHING for myself or my family. As time went by I stood back, re-organized, got a new job with a lower salary and started focusing on myself.
Today I work from home, make more money, show up to work how I want, eat what I want, listen to what I want, do my office however the hell I want and I spend more time with my family, I’m out flying again, I’m out mountain biking again, I’m out seeing my friends again, I’ve actually gotten my motorcycle out more times this summer than I did the entire last 10 years of my busy "corporate man" life.
I would be REALLY happy to consider Google though if I heard more about pensions, retirement, healthcare costs and life after work.
The most interesting job I’ve ever had was IT staff and an old manufacturing plant though. They really stuck to the old style of getting, get out and get your job done and you will get a cheap lunch, great benefits and a life. They would throw family get togethers, have picnics and generally do what my father told me about in some of his companies he worked for.
Some people need to realize what it’s all about. Exxon does great for itself and doesn't require my dad to work more than 8 hours a day and he's one of the few (if not only) geophysicist left the exploration division.
Thats not to say that google is a bad company, but i understand where this critique/review/comparison comes from. I don't think i could stand the corporate culture of microsoft either if i had to live in its offices, but if i was a telecommuter for MS (which they do have) i'm sure i wouldn't care.
Telecommuting is where its at. - jackyyll, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10I'm confused... Did I read that correctly? For one, this article is in the "Technology" section. Secondly, most of Digg is tech related.. This is the internet?
- adidos, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12If I refer you to work there I get a bonus from them :) If you're really really really smart let me know :)
- geniusj, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7It reminds me of Accenture and other such companies. Accenture (haven't worked for them) will get kids out of college, wow them with lots of travel and nice hotel stays, give them important sounding titles and probably pay them less than industry average for their position (but of course, they are inexperienced). It works out pretty well for them, but just means that a lot of their consultants have little experience.
- skyshock1, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10This is silly. Every job is going to have some aspect that you may not like. That's just life. The reason I enjoy working for Google however, is because of the people that work there with me. Google has a reputation for hiring extremely bright and talented individuals. I'm always learning new things from my co-workers on a daily basis. They're genuinely great people that I know I can count on to help me out if I need it. I've never worked at Microsoft but I'm sure they have great people too. Although I'm a bit puzzled as to why it appears they're having trouble creating the same sort of work atmosphere.
At any rate, I've always held the mantra that it's not where you are, but rather who you're with. - yosh89, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Hank Scorpio anyone?
- br0ck, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Those posters at the bottom seem to be contradicting the article's assertion that, "Microsoft is an amazingly transparent company."
- SanTe, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6"The quality of product from google is drastically higher than that from microsoft."
Really? I didn't realize Google produced operating systems, corporate mail server systems and network directories, or database platforms.
Google doesn't produce client-server software that operates anywhere near the level that Microsoft's does. Most of Google's software is of the low hanging fruit variety (Picasa, Google Talk, GMail, their web-based "Office" apps, etc.) in order to be a thorn in Microsoft's big toe but present no real threat, except for search services where Google still rules.
I don't see Google's software and Microsoft's software as even existing in the same playpen, really. Does Google have mail server software? Database? Client OS? Conversely, does Microsoft operate at the internet application level that Google does? Not really. They're trying, but still aren't in Google's league on that front.
I'm no Microsoft apologist, but comparing software quality would require that we compare apples to apples (no pun intended). - dorath, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5From reading the blog, the intent appears to be inducing recruits to join MSFT, rather than joining GOOG. How can they get people to accept positions at MSFT, rather than accepting a position at GOOG? Or phrased another way, how can we get people to say 'no to google' and 'yes to microsoft'
- clyde2801, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Can the 20% include looking at pron?
- schrodingercat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5You've been here since August 2006 and you've yet to realize this is primarily a tech-news site? Or at least that tech-savvy people frequent it and therefore make up the majority of the diggs? I suggest you go to newsvine.com instead for less tech-news.
- Szandor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5See? This is the way to do blog "spam"; be informative and relative. Nice work, jonintc.
- jonintc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Do you work for Deloitte? I know some guys who work there in Phoenix and they use the term "on the beach"
- spony99, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4ha, i work for a consulting company and seem more interested in working for a company like google or ms while a bunch of these people say they worked for ms or google and prefer consulting. i guess everyone else's job is always going to look better than their own
- SupaFupa, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Why would anyone give up the satisfaction and pride that stems from being an independent person, who takes care of and thinks for themselves? Isn't this the reason most of us moved out of our parents house in the first place? Am I the only person who sees a problem with working yourself to death and having nothing to show for it, and no time to smell the roses? Do these people ever enjoy anything that Google doesnt supply them?
Or is it possible that this article is nothing but FUD?
- cculver, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Which buildings? The cafeterias are certainly not free...
Occasionally you see people bring in bagels for everyone and they are gone pretty quickly, but there's no free food on Microsoft campus as far as I know. I'd love to be wrong though, and besides, I'm getting kinda hungry... =) - geniusj, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4While he might work at Deloitte, that's a term commonly used by many consulting firms.
- zonking, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4If nothing else, the article got this right: Google places far too much emphasis on degrees from certain schools versus industry experience. Google is missing out on some of the best and brightest by ignoring people who don't have the "pedigree" it wants.
- GliTCH82, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Wu-Tang Financial looks like a promising start-up.
- Ademuth, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4It doesn't really damage either company. However, if the email was truly distributed through a Microsoft distribution list, it is in violation of Microsoft's security policy.
I am a Microsoft employee and have never seen this email. However, It is someone what accurate other then a few discrepancies, but that may be because i work at a data center and not a corporate office. - Spo8, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I got the opportunity to visit the Googleplex and it was a pretty cool experience. The food is good, the employees are the happiest I've seen at any workplace (especially when they're riding around on the scooters), and people just generally seem to have a good time at work. Sure, they're pretty private (you actually have to sign an NDA before you get your guest pass), but can you really blame them?
- IbnDigg, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Why are they getting so upset? Not sure how this damages either company.
- Szandor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Maybe he's commenting on the "blog" part of "news/blog posts"? I don't know. If not, maybe sarcasm?
- etnu, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5They both sound better than Amazon, Yahoo, or eBay (from personal experience and from what my friends who work at these companies tell me).
I do laugh a bit at Microsoft employees making comments about "long hours". I've never met an engineer at MS who didn't put in 10 hour+ days.
That being said, I know of way more people leaving MS to go to Google than did the reverse. Most of the former Google employees that i've run into here in the bay area are either retired, not in engineering (product managers, marketers, and the like don't seem to like the culture), or are working at startups. - byronm, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Google is hardly safe from a rough economy.. infact any drop in spending on advertising is usually the inital sign of a rough economy and google would be the first to feel the hit from that.
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