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120 Comments
- theOster, on 09/26/2008, -4/+54read it, don't eat it. problem solved.
- insomniac8400, on 09/26/2008, -7/+41Meanwhile, Apple requires an NDA for anyone to develop on their platform and gets to deny any app they don't like.
- StigNordas, on 09/26/2008, -1/+26My God how long have these suits been going on?
- alex7575, on 09/26/2008, -6/+28Before any Apple fanboys go on an M$ $ux rant, think about the company that won't allow certain programs to run on their platform mainly because it "duplicates functionality from an existing application" (ie. theirs, or to be theirs)
- ousthouse, on 09/26/2008, -0/+19Microsoft or not, I don't think Americans should be eating documents.
- JasonCox, on 09/26/2008, -2/+18Wait a minute, did the US *just* say in the last few months that Microsoft was in compliance and they (the government) were trying to end the oversight until a few states intervened? Seriously this is one of those times I'm happy I'm a developer and not a lawyer. Writing software, playing with API's and protocolos- that's easy. Understanding our fraked up legal system, that's hard!
- alex7575, on 09/26/2008, -0/+14MS and IBM both had a hand on OS/2, Windows 2000 copied many of OS/2's functionality
- dukeeeey, on 09/26/2008, -0/+13like ..?
- TheShad0w, on 09/26/2008, -4/+16I'm sorry as an engineer I have to agree. I don't know who else has had to jump into the low level API's or libraries in the MSDN but I used to and let me tell you. I hated it. The documentation was like it was written by someone who didn't know what the code actually did. Sometimes entire parameters would be missing or they would reference a function that was removed or deprecated. Or they failed to even specify what each parameter was for and you had to figure it out through trial and error. I don't even want to begin to jump into the horrible design inconsistencies. Sometimes you had to allocate the memory and sometimes you didn't. Some times you had to free the memory and sometimes you didn't. Sometimes the parameters were uniform in type like taking in a t_char* other times it was a UCHAR* It seriously was the most painful moments in my life as an engineer.
- stealthc, on 09/26/2008, -0/+11Wasn't that the one where you had to type in numerical dimensions in order to change window size?
- asaone, on 09/26/2008, -3/+14Just use Linux, BSD, Unix, Mac OS what ever, Plan 9,.............. there are hundreds of operating systems too use out there, go find one
- TnTBass, on 09/26/2008, -5/+16PeppermintPig:
Take a look at their desktop market share and try to convince anyone they are not a monopoly. Take into account their vendor lock in methods meant to dissuade anyone from switching to a competitor.
How could you possibly argue that they are not a monopoly? - MacBookForMe, on 09/26/2008, -4/+14I call that successful lobbying on Microsoft behalf...:)
- pcgeek101, on 09/26/2008, -1/+10That's why Apple sucks :)
- esfisher, on 09/26/2008, -2/+11well known secret?
- jgasm, on 09/26/2008, -1/+10who cares, no one uses apple ;o)
- gsnedders, on 09/26/2008, -2/+10The entire point is I can't. I can't work in Windows world with the documentation MS give of their protocols.
- MWeather, on 09/26/2008, -7/+15If Microsoft isn't a monopoly neither was AT&T, Standard Oil or US Steel.
- dondara, on 09/26/2008, -1/+8Then let's hope he does.
- stellamaris, on 09/26/2008, -1/+8...like what?
- bjornski, on 09/26/2008, -3/+10Monopoly?
LOL.
This word. It does not mean what you seem to think it means. - raublekick, on 09/26/2008, -8/+14This has nothing to do with the readability of the documentation, it's the completeness that is lacking. It's a well known secret that Microsoft products can operate with other Microsoft products better than 3rd parties can. It's also a well known secret that Microsoft's developer APIs are lacking certain system calls that Microsoft products can utilize.
- redxxx, on 09/26/2008, -1/+6It would be illegal if Apple had Microsoft's market share.
- inactive, on 09/26/2008, -8/+13Nothing to see here. Standard legal *****.
- Quick2822, on 09/26/2008, -1/+6I like to think that I'm up on the latest tech news, but I really had no idea this antitrust suite was still going on.
- cplusplus, on 09/26/2008, -1/+6There are 2 reasons...
- They don't want to document everything so are doing a bad job on purpose
- Its a swamp (eg the .DOC format is a serialized COM object - yuck) - tnoy, on 09/26/2008, -0/+5Don't forget that the rejection of the app is also covered under the terms of the NDA now.
- jgasm, on 09/26/2008, -2/+7i know! microsoft could turn their documentation into picture books. with arrows so people know to turn to the next page.
- mithrasinvictus, on 09/26/2008, -1/+6No, this is a judge, not the government.
- Hockey13, on 09/26/2008, -3/+8@bjornski
Very few people actually understand the meaning and implications of a monopoly. Microsoft has a monopoly in NO products, and any products they do have have very few, if any, barriers to entry. People are just lazy. They're too lazy to study economics, too lazy to look into alternatives to MS products, and too lazy to come up with their own products. - 4321234, on 09/26/2008, -1/+5Windows or Mac - Linux fanboys reading your comment will go, "f'n rights!". But if Steve Ballmer read it, a vein would explode in his head.
- maz2331, on 09/26/2008, -0/+4Yeah. Try mixing DirectShow and Direct3D interfaces some time... you can't even compile it because they are mutually exclusive headers.
- sklter84, on 09/26/2008, -0/+4Ah the wonders of a monopoly. Feeding us ***** and we can't do much about it.
- TnTBass, on 09/26/2008, -2/+6"Given that this is the last sword hanging over its metaphorical head in the US, it's not clear why Microsoft isn't bending over backwards to make it go away."
Why? Because they make more money using Vendor lock in than they lose on the fines for non compliance. It is quite simply, not good for the shareholders, and therefor, not a company priority. - jer21, on 09/26/2008, -1/+5It shouldn't matter whether or not Apple had Microsoft's market share.
- DarkPrincess74, on 09/26/2008, -3/+7yeah, why don't they stop being mean to the big monopolistic company, those big dummies!
haha, microsoft intentionally made it harder for other software makers to compete with them and they have billions of dollars as a result, i think they can spend some of that to document old code, it is possible. - oldhick, on 09/26/2008, -5/+9Illegally acquired? Please explain.
No, thanks to Microsoft, Apple is still around!!! - santasing, on 09/26/2008, -3/+7There is a huge difference between being a monopoly and using monopolistic business practices. MS is guilty of the latter first, and the former second.
- inactive, on 09/26/2008, -2/+6The part where you can get open source and paying alternatives for every single product they have.
Why would they give alternatives access to their own servers?
And there are alternatives. Just to name a few:
MDaemon Pro
Ipswitch Collaboration Suite
Kerio MailServer
They aren't a monopoly. In any sense of the word. - jgasm, on 09/26/2008, -3/+7"Unfortunately, the company has consistently had trouble with producing complete and useful documentation." - I would like to see a definition of "complete" and "useful".
- jgasm, on 09/26/2008, -0/+3"Given that this is the last sword hanging over its metaphorical head in the US, it's not clear why Microsoft isn't bending over backwards to make it go away."
Has a corporation in America ever bent over backwards for the government when it comes to regulations? - Katana314, on 09/26/2008, -0/+3Do you know how huge the MS codebases are? Just documenting that, even to me, comes across as a huge ***** task.
- santasing, on 09/26/2008, -6/+9You are getting dugg down because your arguments are false.
BTW, MS has already been convicted of being a monopoly in the United States. In addition to that, research Colmes vs. Microsoft. There are lots of cases where MS has been a convicted monopolist.
Now, MS is not cooperating with the judgement beause it does not have to (money talks). Just today the court said that MS is not producing good enough documentation. These are just stalling tactics.
If MS did not have anything to fear, why is MS now unbundling the software like photo viewers etc. from Windows 7. - Rich333, on 09/26/2008, -2/+5"Tell me, what is Microsoft a monopoly of?"
MS is a monopoly provider of Windows and various other software, through the copyright privilege, and also has a monopoly on various algorithms, through the patent privilege. I'm surprised I have to remind you of this, PPig, but all abusive monopolies arise from state-granted privileges. If they can't lock out competition, they can't abuse a monopoly position, and in the case of information protectionism, it is inherently abusive. MS is also a corporation, and is therefore not an economically entrepreneurial enterprise, but a politically entrepreneurial one, just by that fact alone. There is nothing of MS that is compatible with a free market. If different factions of the ruling class want to fight amongst themselves over the plunder of our class, let them. It doesn't in any way change our relation to them, and the more they fight amongst themselves, the less time and effort and resources they can expend on screwing the rest of us over for their benefit. - oldhick, on 09/26/2008, -2/+5Thanks. I was wondering who was going to mention that! I often wonder why when people pretend to be a fan of these glorious old OS', they don't actually do the basic research!
Go BeOS!!! Go NeXT!!! and Woohoo for OS/2!!! - forcedfx, on 09/26/2008, -1/+4I feel your pain.
- init100, on 09/27/2008, -0/+3"Apple requires an NDA for anyone to develop on their platform and gets to deny any app they don't like."
You mean one of their platforms (the iPhone/iPod Touch). I don't need to sign an NDA to develop applications for my Mac. - PeppermintPig, on 09/26/2008, -2/+5I guess the children are dying in the streets because they can't get their 5G service?
Sorry, I don't subscribe to nationalism. - MicrosoftBob, on 09/26/2008, -0/+3No problem; but there is a 'delete' key on Digg now.
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