What is Digg?140 Comments
- estvir, on 10/11/2007, -35/+80If Microsoft never existed you'd be paying $4000 for an Apple Mac with a single-button mouse. Microsoft brought computers to the masses, among other notable things.
Also, so much for freedom of choice. /rolls eyes - baalzebub, on 10/11/2007, -21/+56to the people of India:
use a war of attrition against microsoft, do not buy microsoft products and do not use microsoft products, use an alternative such as Linux or FreeBSD or Solaris...
if enough people do this it will be like microsoft never existed... - RyeBrye, on 10/11/2007, -11/+38"We are not against piracy but against the way Microsoft is working to stop it."
- Duh. If you are not against piracy, you are probably for it - and then you are against the way anyone is working to stop it.
(I hope he meant to say "we are not for piracy...", otherwise he's got bigger problems than WGA and the Microsoft Gestapo) - jer2eydevil88, on 10/11/2007, -12/+38Whats a high end median income in India? $12,000? Microsoft expects them to pay $400 for Vista Ultimate like their American counterparts? Maybe they should re-examine the pricing structure they have in places in countries like China and India and hey who knows they might combat piracy a bit better.
- xserver2003, on 10/11/2007, -10/+36I m from India, living in pretty much average sized town, working 6 days a week. I get approx $900 USD per Month as my salary (which is kinda goes in more than higher middle class cat)
House 4 bedrooms (on rent) : $70 / month
Breakfast : $0.6
My lunch at the cafeteria : $1.2
Dinner : $3 (with girlfriend $12)
Monthly 2mbit Internet connection charges at home : $10 / mo
Cost of Vista : ~ $400 (thats like 2 weeks of my pay)
Can afford but i like supporting ThePirateBay more than Micr0soft. - oonthi, on 10/11/2007, -8/+34Microsoft to India: "Thanks for the cheap programmers, now pay us more money"
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -12/+37"prices and policies according to the Indian market"
wow that would be real cheap. - Dhruv, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23@corporalclegg24 , 2Mbps minimum in every home . Keep aside your 360 controller, put the beer aside, just get out of your house for some time...see the world , and you will know who is doin what. Whaen was the last time you saw news or you just watch 'Desprate housewives' on tv.
- JeffH, on 10/11/2007, -6/+20That's the ***** article i've ever read. So Microsoft fined a company for reselling computers with pirated versions of Windows on it? And now some people are boycotting them for doing so? Great reasoning there.
- arjie, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15This is *****. They got caught putting pirated copies of Windows on their machines. I'm Indian and I think companies should take responsibility for their actions. The consumer asked them for Windows and they installed a pirated version on it, lovely. If you can't pay for it, don't use it. Sadly, you'll see that even the rich people (with an income of more than $1500 a month) will use pirated versions of software.
I've heard some stupid arguments. Listen to this one, "Why should I be unable to use something just because I can't pay for it? That's discriminatory against poor people!" If you don't like laws that disallow piracy, work to change them, that's democracy. - abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -11/+23I really wish more people would take the time to read the article. It seems only a few people actually bother to read it and everyone else just follows along. What the article is saying is that Microsoft is being unfair by just targeting the resellers. Why not go after the end-users? After all it is really the end-user who are violating the licence by using an illegitimate copy.
- pranavchavda, on 10/11/2007, -9/+20Yeah, Opensource is the way to go, IMO - why depend on microsoft - free(pirated) or licensed, when opensource is not just an alternative, it's a very viable alternative - and one without much headache - nor a for the technology neither the law.
- amhed, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12The resellers are furious that “Microsoft is targeting only resellers and not undertaking any activity to educate the end-user about the advantages of buying genuine copies of the software. People here are hardly aware about the usefulness of buying licensed copies of software. They assume that the PCs come bundled with the software.”
Yeah, that's like a crack dealer saying that the government doesn't do anything to inform the general public that drugs are bad for you :) - thinker1999, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13It sucks to get caught.
- baalzebub, on 10/11/2007, -13/+22@ ajrajim, the price of one copy of MS-Windows is more than most people in India make in a year, i prefer to simply not do business with a corporation that has been convicted twice of abusing a monopoly position and strong arming other companies with unethical business methods, so my reasons for advocating GNU/Linux is because it is an excellent alternative to windows and i rather use Linux legally than use a pirated copy of windows...
so now you know your comment is uber_lame... - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9If MS does in fact start selling software/OSs very cheap in India, what's to stop someone in this day and age from buying it over the internet for domestic use? It's just as legit as the more expensive exact version I can buy in America, right?
- Brajeshwar, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Why should we digg you down (I'm Indian). I sometimes find it hard to talk to them (Call Center Workers) when they suddenly start speaking like some sorta American. I respect and regard these people who work in call centers and BPOs to earn their livelihood but don't really like them when they try to bring their pseudo-American life to the real society we live in. Sometimes, I have the feeling it was way easier talking to real Americans in American than my fellow Indians-acting-Americans. Some even had the nerve to tell me how I mis-pronounce some phrases.
Come on, my fellow wannabe Americans, I'm an Indian and I love it that way and let me speak that way be it English or Hindi. - shoonya, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9@abhiroop,
excuse me, but is this India you are talking just a fragment of your imagination. the Taj hotels are visited by only the richest in India, so just forget about the low end in that context. And i can assure you that "Rs. 200" is way too much for a meal in India even for a salaried person. Rs 20-40 is closer to reality.
"Graduating from a mediocre university and joining any bank, an Indian is likely to make anywhere between $15000-$40000 a year, starting off right out of college."
Please point me towards such a college. A software engg of 2 years can barely make $7000 USD a year in an IT company. Even Microsoft (among the highest paying software companies in india) itself pays just approx $13000 USD for freshers. Multinational companies don't pay the same salary as in the US, but still want people in India & china to buy their products that a higher price than in the US. - fastsix, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8@taxman - $5 for dinner at a 5 star hotel in India? You better bring your credit card with you just in case you're wrong.
- LocalDocal, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6@abhiroop (#6788017) said: "I really wish more people would take the time to read the article. It seems only a few people actually bother to read it and everyone else just follows along. What the article is saying is that Microsoft is being unfair by just targeting the resellers. Why not go after the end-users? After all it is really the end-user who are violating the licence by using an illegitimate copy."
Not to offend you, but that's rather ridiculous, wouldn't you say? That is basically the equivalent of what the RIAA once did. They went after the end-user instead of the source and it ended up costing them. C'mon now, it's pretty obvious that stopping the source is going to be a lot easier and more effective than attempting to stop everyone who buys from the source. Additionally, it's not only illegal to purchase and use pirated software, but it's also illegal to sell pirated software. You do know this, don't you?
Aside from that, did you actually read that part of the article closely? Let me repost it:
"The resellers under the umbrella of South Gujarat Information Technologists Association (SITA) are furious that “Microsoft is targeting only resellers and not undertaking any activity to educate the end-user about the advantages of buying genuine copies of the software. People here are hardly aware about the usefulness of buying licensed copies of software. They assume that the PCs come bundled with the software.”"
Basically, they're not even saying to threaten the end-user with legal actions. They're basically saying to take actions to EDUCATE them. To translate: "What you should not do is sue resellers, but instead spend money to educate people as to why they should not pirate."
I think I can actually imagine Microsoft executives laughing about this ludicrous suggestion. Hell, I'll be the one laughing at them if they actually take it. - f0dder, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6@taxman
The capitalist system is what it is.. it rewards the companies or persons that has the products consumers are willing to pay money for. Poeple can cry microsoft monopoly all they want but the truth is piracy is what has helped microsoft gain huge amounts of market share. With macs you can't exactly pirate hardware. Apple chose that route and in hindsight it was a poor one from a marketing perspective.
But to say Indians can't function without microsoft OS'd computer is retarded. you have a perfectly good OS in Linux. - gamerzworld, on 10/11/2007, -8/+14"We are not against piracy but against the way Microsoft is working to stop it."
So you promote piracy? - nixdoctor, on 10/11/2007, -1/+70. People who have never been to India should not "assume" things. Even if they do, they should refrain from posting their valued "comments" on a mature site like Digg.
1. A loaf of bread costs $1 in US, 0.01 in India. Software should be priced similarly.
2. I can buy any one of these items for the same price as Windows Vista in India:
A used Pentium3 PC,
300GB Hard drive ,
20" LCD monitor
Rent a room with shared bathroom/kitchen for upto two MONTHS
Eat three meals a day in a local food "shop" for an entire MONTH
Pay a MONTH's college tuition (or more depending on your college)
A GOLD ring for mom/girlfriend
Two MONTHS grocery for a single person
(and the list goes on)
3. Most end-users in India do not pirate software knowingly. They buy a computer from the local market, carry it with them home in an auto-rickshaw, and switch it on to see a pre-installed M$ Windows. The end-user "assumes" that every computer in the world magically carries Windows with it. When windows dies after a few months, the user calls up the computer shop from where he bought the machine, and the guy comes over and reinstalls Windows clean. This is the way piracy happens in underdeveloped world.
4. Linux is maturing, but it'll never be popular in India unless awareness is created in the community about FOSS. After all, everyone wants to watch a wmv video their relatives sent, or open a "Microsoft" word document. - spaghetticode, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6@f0dder
yes macs and ipod are equally bloated in terms of price, a macbook costs $400 more in india than i does in USA, its really a terrible tact used by comapnies to increase the prices as they move to the east even though most of the stuff is made here. - Khilona, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Fastest way to get to the front page: Put a story bashing India and you will find lame people who have never been to India, digging and commenting on how bad India is.
- abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9@taxman: another individual who dearly needs to get their facts straight. Just to start off at the Taj (in Mumbai, India) to have a meal at the Zodiac grill (claims to be India's best restaurant) the low end can be as much as $150 per person. In general the only places you can eat in India for $5 (Rs. 200) is whats called a "dhaba". Rs. 200 is quite a cheap meal by any standards. Graduating from a mediocre university and joining any bank, an Indian is likely to make anywhere between $15000-$40000 a year, starting off right out of college. Again the issue is that the people who make $30 a week (and there are many people who do) are not going to buy computers, and for them it is certainly not a necessity. Mobile phones have became so commonplace, literally everyone owns one, however, they are significantly cheaper. The people who can afford to buy a mid-range pc, can very easily afford to pay for vista. The issue is piracy, not wages in india. Poverty is ripe in India, but that does not mean everybody lives below $2 a day in India
- sid0, on 10/11/2007, -5/+10Microsoft isn't some kind of captor that you have to declare your freedom from it.
Say, "I chose to not use Microsoft software X years ago." - ortucis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6lol @ 5$ dinner in "5 star hotel in India".
You sure it wasn't a dhaba? (road site 5 start hotels..) - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8No matter how insane your stance on P2P being "legal" there is NO WAY a sane person can be in favor of a store that sells (and therefore profits) pirated software.
- abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6technically it isn't legal, because they are selling something for that market. It's like how the ipod has different prices all over the world. Besides the issue is piracy, if your going to get your vista from an Indian reseller, well your probably going to be the kind of person who'd torrent it anyway.
- RamboJesus, on 10/11/2007, -9/+13ARRR!!!! I agree.
- Sabretou, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4From what I know of India, very, very few people are aware of a world outside Windows and Intel. Linux is an alien concept and people are more willing to use software they are taught to use (which means Microsoft Office, Windows etc.). Hence, alternative software is used only by software geeks and such.
- sid0, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7O RLY?
A full fledged desktop costs Rs 30000 or more ~= $700 or more. A computer of the same specifications is MORE expensive in India than in the USA.
Add another Rs 10000 for a laptop.
Seriously, don't comment on matters you don't know about. - martalli, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@abhirop
Do you have to be a CEO in order to be in the middle class? That sounds like the definition of upper class to me. - ani625, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4"We are not against piracy but against the way Microsoft is working to stop it"!?
I think wat he meant was.. " We are not against anti-piracy.." - abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Just as a frame of reference:
Students graduating from IIT Bombay (Institute of Information Technology - elite universities in India) expect to receive a salary of about 9.71 lack (about $23000), on average. IITs are the elite universities, but even half this amount ($10000) is still pretty good just out of college. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1662614.cms
Similarly average salaries from the Indian Business school is about 12 lakhs ($27000), again straight out of college. http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1662614.cms
IITs are elite and do enjoy higher salaries, but that does not mean that salaries are low in general. It is important to look at these people, as they are most likely to purchase any sort of software. - 0110110, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3http://www.ubuntu.com/
- abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Also, you cannot eat ANYWHERE (except perhaps a cafeteria, of the company you work at) for Rs. 20-40. I was a student in Pune, and I frequently spent AT LEAST Rs. 100 on meals (and please save your "you're too rich/elitist" comments). I was not part of the "elite", I was part of the middle-class, most likely to buy the software. About 30 years ago in the indian admin service training institute the cafeteria cost for a month was Rs. 750, and that was 30 years ago! Eating at Mcdonalds (as an example, as a lot of people in Pune do eat there) costs about Rs. 200. Watching a movie is about Rs, 150-400.
I am not denying that you can get things very cheap in India, but the people who are likely to buy this software, definately spend more than Rs. 20 a day on meals! - indijay, on 10/11/2007, -6/+9@sid0,
I don't know about the Indians but you will be certainly get f***ed in your arse on digg. Did you bother to even read the article? Go, spit your venom somewhere else. - glock22ownr, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5"if they want to do business in India then they should change their prices and policies according to the Indian market."
You know what that is a bunch of crap! Not only are our jobs being threatened because of the cheaper labor, but now they want the tools handed to them too?? WTF !? - DaGeek, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5
God, what a LAME story!
The argument the writer puts forth of charity to the end users borders on retarded. Free alternatives exist for users who can't afford a licensed copy of Vista, XP, etc. in the form of Linux, blah, blah, blah, OSS. As such no need to pirate.
I hope MS carves them a new bodily orifice ;-) - martalli, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Actually, farming in America is typically highly computerized, relying on GPS to deliver varying amounts of different fertilizers to different areas of the fields.
The people I am talking about from my wife's village are not the poor, but landowners who own their own houses and land, and send their kids to private schools and colleges. They may not be as rich as the software programmers (although some of the kids work in Bangalore and Chennai doing that). Their salary doesn't sound like much, but I think it is obvious from this thread that one does not need gobs of cash for basic needs in India.
Some folks there certainly use computers on a regular basis, like the local priest and the town (panchayat) government. Farming is on too small of a scale to do what I was talking about before (10 acre farms compared to 10k acres). I don't think anyone there is playing WoW, but there are certainly other uses for computers.
Now, personally, I think people would be better off their switching to Linux. Maybe a heavy handed Microsoft would help out. - shark72, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"My wife is from a rural village where the upper strata of farmers and workers might be pulling in Rs. 100,000 a year or so from their year-round farming (3-4 growing seasons), and work on the outside. This translates into about $2,300/year. Are you going to charge $400, or even $100 from these folks?"
The thing about India is that it has a LOT of poor people. Yet in the urban centers, salaries and costs of living are similar to other industrialized nations. This makes it easy to "lie with statistics" by averaging things like salaries across India's entire population, including the untouchables.
Your answer: no, you're NOT going to get $400 from those farmers in the rural villiages who make $2.3K a year, because many of them don't have computers. If you're selling a high end operating system, they're not your target market. But if $400 is appropriate for your target market in the industrialized parts of India, then that's what you should sell it for. - flipcritic, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5I'm not for piracy, but people from different areas will purchase what they can afford. I'm from the Philippines where software piracy is pretty much a way of life, but it is less prevalent than it was before. US software used to be priced the same here as it was in the US, but the Philippines isn't exactly in the G8. Businesses would be insane to purchase software that would cost them so much money than get it waaaaay cheaper elsewhere. Microsoft as well as other vendors have since decreased their prices and though they still face rampant piracy here, they are doing much better, even providing incentives for those businesses who opt to go legal.
Let's be clear. Piracy is theft, but not all countries (particularly those considered part of the third world) have the spending power of the west. India is getting much more competitive, but much of it is still mired in poverty, and not all businesses can afford to implement great software at their current prices. Try to keep that in mind before tossing around accusations that an entire nation doesn't give a ***** about pirating software. - arjie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I don't get it. You make it sound like Microsoft Windows is essential to farmers. It isn't. Most people can find a free OS. They don't need to pirate.
- newstart, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3dont call it bengaluruu, its banglore. We will always call it banglore. bengaluruu sounds very fine. The govt. should concentrate on making the city better rather than renaming it
- sishgupta, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4No one is dying the truth of what Microsoft has done for the computer industry in the past. It has been a very major and influential player and with out MS in the past we would likely be somewhere different and perhaps less advanced.
The problem now is not about the company's past, but the company currently and in the future. Is Microsoft going to continue screwing people on a daily basis?
This article talks about just one of those instances. In this case, getting MS to change would likely only happen if people in that area refused to buy their products. - artwork, on 10/24/2007, -1/+3Aah. Its fun to catch a Freudian slip.
- Dhruv, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@citsym , It's your mistake if you don’t know the plans provided by dataone , except the UL plan every plan has got 2Mbps minimum, and i am enjoying this from last Dec , i download 100+ GB every month , more than enough for me. About the cost of the plans , it starts from Rs 250/- . Every plan except Home 250 has free downloading time, if ppl are still torturing themselves with the lame UL plans its their mistake, i switched over to Home500 and i download more than ever, all HD stuff .
In which city do you live ? - sfraider24, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Microsoft does, in fact, offer different pricing in each region of the world. As a Microsoft reseller my company is well aware that users in India can purchase Windows Vista and other Microsoft products at a much lower cost than US consumers.
-SF
http://www.wasatchsoftware.com/blog -
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