What is Digg?321 Comments
- OfTheSun, on 06/16/2008, -20/+204I don't care what they change I'm sticking with Firefox.
- GeNe07, on 06/16/2008, -7/+101as a web designer myself, IE reeeeeally needs to step their game up.. I hate designing in Mozilla and then getting that sinking feeling in my stomach when I remember "oh yea, I better check IE"....
- Mariasha, on 06/16/2008, -6/+91I still like http://www.ie7.com/
- dOOBiEx213, on 06/16/2008, -16/+78Microsoft needs to Alt+F4.
- peterjmag, on 06/16/2008, -17/+76I've not been impressed by IE8 Beta yet. I've had to switch it to "Emulate IE7" like 99% of the time. I'm so sick of coding for Internet Explorer...
- Dylson, on 06/16/2008, -23/+77I hate IE
- crownedgriffin, on 06/16/2008, -5/+55This program is not responding. End now?
- colincornaby, on 06/16/2008, -16/+62The issue nightly builds and it's open source. What more do you want? A cookie?
- thecheatah, on 06/16/2008, -3/+44ERRR. I was JUST developing a website. According the CSS rules, the rule closest to the element gets applied. ALL THE ***** browsers do this. But IE, NOPE. No sir. I tried on 6 and 7. Also did you know that the following two codes are not equivalent:
window.onload = function() {alert('*middle finger*');
and
var variable = window;
variable.onload = function() {alert('*middle finger*');
I can go ON and ON. Did you know that doing post ajax requests over https stop working if you wait more then 15 seconds between requests?
My hate for IE is just immense. I program a site in 15 minutes (it works in firefox, safari, konq, whatever else you can think of) and spend 2-3 hours getting it to work on IE.
These people should just take the mozilla code and call it IE 8. Or better yet someone make a activex plugin where firefox runs within IE. The dumb ***** user doesnt have to do much and I am, as a developer, happy. - seanmx, on 06/16/2008, -24/+63Please please stop. I believe everyone will agree that IE is useless.
- inactive, on 06/16/2008, -2/+37Coming from another experienced coder's standpoint, to be honest you sound like an idiot. IE is probably one of the most css-disrespecting browsers around. IE6 was horrible but at least it's getting a little better with 7 & 8 but it's getting better. I will at least give props for Microsoft for picking up the pace a little but then again, their only doing it because browsers like Safari, Opera, and Firefox are eating at their market share. If IE was actually up to or as close to standards as most of the other browsers, it would save me about an hour or two average of coding on simple xhtml/css projects, and possibly days on larger projects we get in our offices. I'm glad FF and Safari are battling it out, the more market share they get, the easier and simpler my life will be.
- inactive, on 06/16/2008, -2/+34Actually they should do just that
- WhereAmI, on 06/16/2008, -3/+31Fanboy of standard compliance!
- benologist, on 06/15/2008, -19/+47The IE Blog is useful for anyone interested.
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/
Periodical releases instead of nightly? I'm not seeing the big deal there. - seldon452, on 06/16/2008, -11/+38Microsoft doesn't care about making their browser better. Anyone who has any tech sense is already on firefox or maybe even opera. The only reason IE has a large market share is because it is the default browser. On my fathers work laptop they don't even let him install firefox unless the IT manager over rides security. If firefox was the default on all PCs then it would dominate the market. People are just too lazy/stupid to swap.
- kenvsryu, on 06/16/2008, -9/+34microsoft will buy not innovate.
- TypeEE, on 06/16/2008, -25/+47IE7 was a big boated application. It's slow like unbearable. The search is not an incremental search. It's just a lousy browser w/ tabs.
- newbill123, on 06/16/2008, -4/+22HTML? CSS2 & 3? SVG? I agree with the article that it's beyond fighting about whose standards should be followed. I'm tired of trying to get my news of what is legal browser code to use from rumor sites.
True, Safari, Firefox, and Opera are not perfect at following standards. But if MY code follow standards, then I can be happy that each browser revision becomes more compliant rather than less so.
I was not impressed with the beta of IE 8 that I saw, but I'll aggressively recommend all browsers that follow standards rather than coming up with their own. - blamar, on 06/16/2008, -2/+20http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.htm ...
If anyone wants a well written article on the IE backwards compatibility crisis...
or you can digg down, your choice. - inactive, on 06/16/2008, -3/+20Firefox 3 was also in beta but that hasn't given me any problem for a better part of this year. IE in any freaking form is a POS.
- Perplexion, on 06/16/2008, -2/+19I've designed the other way and it's much worse going from code that must be broken because it works in a broken browser to code that is correct but is no longer broken because you just fixed it. So now you have to fix it twice rather than once. If you design in IE first I feel very very bad for you.
- Zounas, on 06/16/2008, -1/+18You didn't close the braces...
- codejutsu, on 06/16/2008, -24/+39Microsoft's problem is wholly cultural. If an intranet app breaks because the developers were too lazy to code to standards, whose fault is that? A lot of times proper standards-compliant fixes to pages are simple to roll out. Companies either don't have the management-level will to do the right thing or their IT departments are too afraid to modernize their infrastructure. Thankfully, I know many companies that started off with standards-compliance and are gracefully adapting to new technologies on-the-fly, while maintaining compatibility with multiple systems. Companies need to stop depending on proprietary, single methods of reaching goals. They should encourage using the best variet of tools available, as long as a common, measurable goal is achieved.
- santaliqueur, on 06/16/2008, -1/+16It's amazing how after a couple decades, Microsoft still deserves all the bashings we give out.
- bluntphallus, on 06/16/2008, -1/+16So... they actually exist? Yikes. There's a fanboy for everything.
- daengbo, on 06/16/2008, -2/+16I agree that "too lazy to code to standards" is a big problem, but you have to look at where a lot of those problems started. For years, Frontpage produced junk code that only IE would render properly. "Whose fault is that?"
- estvir, on 06/16/2008, -6/+20Mozilla also had, you know, the whole history of browsers to work off of. A brand new company could come out with a car better than the first cars available, does that make the new company magically superior? Obviously not.
Hopefully you'll now realise how incredibly stupid your comment is. - dOOBiEx213, on 06/16/2008, -1/+15Bill?
- WarBiscuit, on 06/16/2008, -0/+13I wish to god they would do that.
Ripping off webkit, gecko, khtml, opera's backend...
any of those actions would be a HUGE step forward.
IE's underlying engine is so different from everyone else's
(example: how padding fits into their css box model),
it would be much better if they did use a rebranded,
embraced, and extended version of some other engine.
All the quirks they could possibly add to an existing engine
could not equal the problems IE has currently has.
Someone should make 'em an offer. - mikephimikephi, on 06/16/2008, -4/+16All this talk of legacy rendering, and making sure code written for IE6 and IE7 works with IE8 is just compounding the problem. In order to make Internet Explorer 8 a viable option, it should be standards compliant AND browser detection within DHTML or JavaScript should see IE8 as not part of the Internet Explorer line of software. That way, CSS written for all browsers will be used and the CSS written for IE[any version] will be ignored. Over time, the phenomenon of writing specifically for IE will disappear.
- 35263526, on 06/16/2008, -4/+16I've found from personal experience (measured by number of dock icon bounces before I actually get a window) cold start of FF3 is still slower than Safari by a noticeable amount, and its memory and CPU usage is still higher. It's leaps ahead of FF3, but it's still not there yet. Plus it still has the dreadful laggy scrolling on big pages (a problem that highlights itself on sites like digg or reddit especially).
I wouldn't use anything but FF3 on Linux or Windows, but Safari has to come out on top on my MBP, even without all of my usual FF extensions. - thailand1972, on 06/16/2008, -0/+11✓Meme detected
- ksande, on 06/16/2008, -2/+13ie7 has it...
- wutname1, on 06/16/2008, -2/+13IE fan boys
- Dongvid, on 06/16/2008, -1/+12There was no Firefox when people used pentium I's. After that, tl;dr.
- 35263526, on 06/16/2008, -4/+14Firefox (well, actually, Gecko) kinda sucks on Macs. It's slow to load and more of a memory hog than on Linux or Windows, and it has an incredibly annoying scrolling bug when dealing with large pages.
Plus, let us not forget, WebKit arguably has greater support for standards than Gecko. I certainly wouldn't mind Microsoft copying it on that front. - falafelkiosken, on 06/16/2008, -3/+13have you even tried a WebKit based web browser. Safari actually has excellent standards support, almost every site that works with Firefox works with Safari
- DarkShroud, on 06/16/2008, -2/+12FF3 doesn't have code in web sites telling it to render pages the wrong way now does it.
- JasonCox, on 06/16/2008, -1/+10That's because most websites detect IE and load bad code to work around the quirks in earlier versions of the browser.
- inactive, on 06/16/2008, -1/+10safari and opera for a start
it's not like IE is even trying to compete with FF anyway - bluntphallus, on 06/16/2008, -0/+9Nope, he's saying that he can't install Firefox because work security policy forbids it. Try actually working one day and you'll see the real world isn't all fruits and daisies where you can do whatever the hell you want and get away with it. Mostly.
- SupaDawg, on 06/16/2008, -2/+11Unfortunatly it's not that simple. I'm shoehorned into using IE (though i use it via IEtab) to access certain learning apps through my school. The applications are coded to work for IE and only IE. I'm sure this is a recurring case.
As much as i'd love to bury IE7 away never to be used again, situations like this necessitate it. - xaeon, on 06/16/2008, -0/+8IE tab is your friend.
- doshindude, on 06/16/2008, -1/+9In other news: Firefox 3 comes out tomorrow.
- B3N3, on 06/16/2008, -0/+8If they're taking votes, count me in as a yes on that too.
- Audacitor, on 06/16/2008, -1/+9Have you tried seeing what happens if you do a simple user agent switch?
- latova, on 06/16/2008, -3/+11That's because been a decade and they still don't make reliable software.
- colincornaby, on 06/16/2008, -12/+20So? You can literally make a web browser with WebKit with 1 line of code.
http://cocoadevcentral.com/articles/000077.php
Not having Safari open source itself is a very tiny issue. - inactive, on 06/16/2008, -1/+8can somebody please tell me why they actually have their own internet browser? is it REALLY a necessity of an OS creator to make their own browser? Firefox is lightyears ahead. I say microsoft should give up, and have firefox pre-installed on their OS. not like that's going to happen... ever
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