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197 Comments
- hillbillyboy07, on 04/16/2009, -7/+79So when you go install an OEM copy of Windows would you like there to be no way of going on the internet until you install one. This seems silly, enlighten me on what I am missing here.
- krellor, on 04/16/2009, -9/+43Digg me down if you want, but I think this whole thing about the browser is retarded. Who wants to buy an OS with no browser included? I don't use IE, except for going to download another browser. If I was a lay person, are you telling me that after installing Windows in Europe, I would then have to go to a friends house, or the store, and download/buy a browser? Are any other OS's being required to not ship with a browser? Seriously. I could understand making Microsoft allowing the browser to be uninstalled, but they are saying that it can't ship with it. Which is a ***** move for consumers.
I install virtually any *nix distro, and a browser comes with it. I load up OS X, and it has a browser. In this day and age asking a OS to not ship with a browser is beyond crazy. - strangewill, on 04/16/2009, -1/+30Better for us web developers than IE 6.
- greenrider04, on 04/16/2009, -4/+32Easy, it's so users can use IE to go online after a fresh install and download Firefox.
- Dubbsacc, on 04/16/2009, -5/+29I really want to know the answer to this too. You would have to go to someone's house and burn a copy of Firefox/Favorite Browser to disc and bring it back to install.
- Hercules, on 04/16/2009, -7/+30When Mozilla develops their own OS, or Google develops theirs, then they can bundle a browser with it. I don't see how this is anything wrong for MS to do, given they developed the OS. Nobody yells at Apple for 'bundling Safari'. Hell, a few months ago Google had a lawsuit to be able to change the desktop search in Windows. Would they ask Apple to give up spotlight so they can default with "Google Desktop Search for OSX"? I think not.
- 1packer, on 04/16/2009, -0/+20They are saying that the browser shouldn't be tied into the operating system. All OS's(except some random linux distros) come with a browser, but if you don't like it you can take it off. Microsoft is the only company that makes that impossible, which is where the main problem is. Why does everyone think this is about sending Windows out without an operating system? I run Ubuntu, it came with Firefox, but if I don't like it or think it is a security liability or bloatware(which I don't) I can remove it completely and install another browser.
- thegreatsam, on 04/16/2009, -2/+21Why should Microsoft provide links to other companies products in a wizard? What next, when you go to install office, should they instead include a link to OpenOffice? When you go to use MovieMaker, should they ask if you really want to use Adobe Premiere instead?
As for OEMs including a browser, thats nice and all, but what about the people who home-built their pc, as most enthusiasts do? - TheOnlyIntruder, on 04/16/2009, -6/+22Shouldn't the ECIS also bash Apple for bundling Safari in the MacOS or any other OS manufacturer that bundle apps? This is really stupid IMO. I thought the point in an OS was to allow you to actually use a computer and the OS maker can bundle apps in to help with the experience? It's utter bonkers is this
- JudgeDredd, on 04/16/2009, -1/+15Let me guess. You used a web browser to find that.
- forevernomad, on 04/16/2009, -0/+13A simple solution would be a wizard that checks for an internet connection and then asks you which browser you would like to use, this could then be downloaded and installed automatically. It could even be kept up to date online so that updates to browsers/new broswers are recognised and listed, instead of having to update the updater each time this happens.
EDIT: dammit doktaru beat me to it, but it shows that it's a very popular idea :) - FearlessFreep, on 04/16/2009, -0/+13The problem isn't IE on Windows.
The problem is that they set it up so that Windows depends on IE, thus pretty much requiring that IE be installed in order to run Windows, thus lowering a) the ability of OEM's to offer competing products that they may consider giving their offering a competitive edge and b) the incentive of end users to install another option ("why install FF/Chrome/Opera if IE is required anyway)
and while MS and Mozilla don't make money directly from their browsers, then can monetize the use of them. MS can offer web services that only work in IE; Mozilla can get a boatload of cash from Google in exchange from making Google the default search engine, but that's only reasonable if you can count on a certain number of desktops running FF. So even without charging for IE or FF, there's a lot of money at stake here, and MS is using their OS monopoly to shift the playing field in favor of their browser - IKORKYI, on 04/16/2009, -5/+17i've got to say i don't get this.
who made the decision that IE was any different than movie maker, wmp, windows messenger, windows calculator, etc.
why is it ok that they tie their shell to the their kernel distribution? why isn't it ok that I can't create my own software for the wii/playstation/xbox without modifying its hardware? why is it ok that i am required to use the xbox 360 dvd firmware to connect to live?
why is the app store allowed on an iphone? why do i have to jailbreak it? why is this ok and IE not?
NO ONE CHARGES FOR BROWSERS
it couldn't be easier to download, install, and make default another browser. wouldn't you like to have internet connectivity possible right out of the box so you could, you know, download another browser??? - stutimandal, on 04/16/2009, -10/+22Can anyone even imagine the number of man-hours wasted in fixing CSS bugs for Internet Exploder 6.0?
- celotil, on 04/16/2009, -0/+11Contractual obligations, created by Microsoft, prevent the removal of IE and installation of another browser.
Hence, the EU is going after Microsoft about it because if the OEM's just changed the browser, Microsoft would sue, or cancel contracts. - DOCNM, on 04/16/2009, -8/+19good timing in forcing IE8 through auto update.
/s - twiztidsinz, on 04/16/2009, -4/+15You could do it through the command prompt.. but I'd rather not.
- byronm, on 04/16/2009, -6/+17Where have you been? IE has had anti-phishing technology since 7, Windows has had anti-spyware since XP and especially from SP3 onwards and Window has had firewall since XP (and even earlier in some cases). I'll also mention that MS is going to be offering what used to be OneCare as a free service through live essentials soon. Not only that but if you install Live Essentials you get more functionality to restrict content, manage zones and do other things through the family privacy filtering it offers (Safe surfing or whatever they call it) - of course - all of it is free and doesn't cost a dime.
I would also like to mention Microsoft has allowed you to change the default browser for ages AND in windows 7 you can actually remote Internet Explorer 8. - Baryn, on 04/16/2009, -2/+11Hear, hear!
IE8 can be the last integrated IE. I can deal with that level of duress. - inactive, on 04/16/2009, -1/+10Firefox Getter 8.0 is pretty nice, give it a try.
- 1packer, on 04/16/2009, -2/+10Just because no one seems to understand that the main problem is the fact that IE is embedded in the system, all that they are saying that the browser shouldn't be tied into the operating system. All OS's(except some random linux distros) come with a browser, but if you don't like it you can take it off. Microsoft is the only company that makes that impossible, which is where the main problem is. Why does everyone think this is about sending Windows out without an operating system? I run Ubuntu, it came with Firefox, but if I don't like it or think it is a security liability or bloatware(which I don't) I can remove it completely and install another browser.
- doktaru, on 04/16/2009, -1/+9You don't have to have a browser to get a browser. There are two solutions that I would see, without causing enormous amounts of user frustration:
1. OEMs choose a browser and bundle it.
2. Microsoft provides a wizard to choose and install a browser of the user's choice, including a list of browsers like Firefox, Safari, and Opera. - Baryn, on 04/16/2009, -1/+9PC companies are not "bundling" IE with Windows, they can't ***** take it out of Windows! Even if they try!
- Exhibitionist, on 04/16/2009, -2/+9Forget about this OS/browser integration ***** - that's not the root of the problem. I say, prevent MS from negotiating exclusive OEM Windows installation agreements.
If MS are forced to compete with other OS's as a stand-alone product, rather than coming pre-installed, their market share will go down quicker than a two dollar hooker. - dsfjvhbd, on 04/16/2009, -0/+7You did not get the joke
- badriram, on 04/16/2009, -3/+10what makes you think that EU wont complain about an ftp program, i mean people sell ftp programs, solitare games, tcpip stacks, task managers, file managers.
Really EU needs to realize an OS is not a micro kernel anymore it is an amalgam of kernel level modules, services and application that run on top. - designerutah, on 04/16/2009, -0/+7Try completely uninstalling it. Then give us step by step instructions. You'll find you can't. IE is embedded into Windows in the current architectures. You can uninstall parts of it, sure. But not all of it.
- jeremymccurdy, on 04/16/2009, -1/+7Apple is more of a monopoly than Microsoft, you can build a blank PC and put whatever you want on it. A Mac? Not really unless installing a bootlegged copy of Mac OS on a PC counts.
- Baryn, on 04/16/2009, -6/+12OK, I want you to read super carefully:
**********************
NO ONE IS SUGGESTING YOUR COMPUTER SHIP WITHOUT A BROWSER.
IT CAN SHIP WITH FIREFOX, CHROME, SAFARI, OPERA AND/OR *OPTIONALLY* IE.
**********************
Now, may this idiocy die. - inactive, on 04/16/2009, -0/+6Because you can uninstall Safari without impacting Mac OS. That's the reason. Don't like Safari? Trash can. Done.
- DOCNM, on 04/16/2009, -2/+7"The Commission is concerned that through the tying, Microsoft shields Internet Explorer from head to head competition with other browsers which is detrimental to the pace of product innovation and to the quality of products which consumers ultimately obtain," the EC's press bulletin continued. "In addition, the Commission is concerned that the ubiquity of Internet Explorer creates artificial incentives for content providers and software developers to design websites or software primarily for Internet Explorer which ultimately risks undermining competition and innovation in the provision of services to consumers."
Hadn't been for Firefox slowly eroding their share we would still be stuck with IE6. - drmsux, on 04/16/2009, -4/+9easy -
ftp -A -i ftp.mozilla.org
get "/pub/firefox/releases/latest-3.0/win32/en-US/Firefox Setup 3.0.8.exe" - ispyamoose, on 04/16/2009, -2/+7That is definitely the truth.
- inactive, on 04/16/2009, -0/+5IE8 with webkit or gecko?
It makes too much sense for microsoft to do it.
Yeah if they chose gecko, it would turn IE into a skinned Firefox with some activeX plugins.
And Microsoft wants IE to be the winrar of the internets, not firefox.
Webkit is an Apple (and khtml) byproduct, and Microsoft is too proud to adopt apple tech.
Imagine what they would say to the shareholders:
"Hey guys, after so much time paying developers to create sluggish horrible browsers, and immense money kmeeping it integrated deeply into windows, NETSCAPE HAS WON. Sweet dreams." - NJank, on 04/16/2009, -0/+5you + reading comprehension. some day, the dream may come true.
- Twinnie, on 04/16/2009, -0/+5In the old days MS used to refuse licenses to hardware vendors who wanted to bundle alternative browsers with their computers.
- EdGasket, on 04/16/2009, -0/+5Android?
- designerutah, on 04/16/2009, -1/+6The problem isn't bundling. The problem is embedding. The way Windows has embedded code from IE basically requires that IE is installed. And Microsoft has used that near Monopoly to go against the flow (non-compliant browser, delayed updates, etc.) for financial profit. Apple's bundling of Safari isn't seen in the same light because you can easily delete Safari and all components without a problem. Funny enough, Apple has the same embedding problem as MS, it's just with Quicktime, not Safari. And yes, I think that's a problem too.
- CLShortFuse, on 04/16/2009, -1/+6Except that doesn't work when 3.0.8 is no longer the latest version.
- Ryan32, on 04/16/2009, -5/+10I think the idiocy here lies with you. Why should microsoft have to package a competitors product by law?
I don't see Iphones/Mac's shipping with Firefox already on it, or IE for that matter....
The only thing that needs to change, is IE needs to be "uninstallable". - benologist, on 04/16/2009, -1/+6MS is far from shielded from competition with other browsers. Opera owns the embedded market, Firefox has a chunk of the desktop market, Safari owns the constantly-growing Apple market. Whether anyone here likes MS or not it's just retarded to say bundling IE is somehow preventing any competition. They're not being "beaten" on the desktop but it's not for want of trying.
I also don't get why anyone would give a crap if it's coupled with the kernel. All that actually means is applications may embed a browser control to show HTML and stuff. If a programmer has specifically chosen to use a vendor-provided control in their software - and we do this pretty much every ***** time we create software AND there are other options available including different rendering engines - then who is the EU to come along and insist that be removed or massively changed x years later? - Feldon, on 04/16/2009, -0/+5i hope you know that you really don't need a a web browser to get online and/or download something. You talking about the UK where 90% of anyone with a PC/ laptop is a hacker.
- WiseGuy1020, on 04/16/2009, -1/+5Actually after reviewing your comment history you must be a paid troll. Practically every comment you have made is defending MS or bashing Apple.
"Digg is worthless"
You said that almost a month ago. If you really feel that way why are you still here?
How much are they paying you? - jestin, on 04/16/2009, -1/+5You hit the nail on the head. The anti-competitive issue is that a lot of hardware only comes with Windows.
The IE thing is mostly just a security issue. Seriously, a web browser so tied to an OS? It can't be a good idea. - SkippyDoorknob, on 04/16/2009, -0/+4gopher?
- superpenut, on 04/16/2009, -6/+10If you don't have a browser, how could you get to www.getfirefox.com?
- FearlessFreep, on 04/16/2009, -1/+5"Can you uninstall Safari from OSX?"
Yes - Bryantho, on 04/16/2009, -1/+5Psst. Conditional comments. Send the money you save straight to me.
- badriram, on 04/16/2009, -0/+4@MWeather Maybe you dont know but Windows 95 (95b) on Microsoft shipped IE. So the EU is complaining after 14 years. It only depends on when competition complains, in this case Opera.
- drjekelmrhyde, on 04/16/2009, -1/+5@patrick
I thought you guys said Linux and Apple is gaining ground so how could Microsoft be a monopoly? -
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