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Dell to Sell XP after Cutoff, Microsoft to Pretend its Vista

gizmodo.com — We've heard Microsoft hint at keeping XP on shelves longer than initially stated, but Dell is the first retailer to confirm having plans to sell the OS past the end of June. But it isn't because Microsoft's changed their policy; it's because Dell is taking advantage of a loophole in Vista licensing that lets weaselly Microsoft pad their numbers.

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  • noahsawyer, on 04/27/2008, -8/+75HP is also doing the same http://digg.com/microsoft/PC_makers_find_ways_to_e ...
    • linagee, on 04/27/2008, -29/+3Linux has one trillion users! For real!
      • Drahkar, on 04/27/2008, -11/+6Morons like you are the reason babies cry.
    • ELiTe185, on 04/27/2008, -5/+20It seems that Microsoft will do anything to pad their $14 billion net income.
      • grimward, on 04/27/2008, -12/+4Seriously, how to you figure a Vista sale is better than an XP sale? it's the same money, it's just labelled differently.
        • Drahkar, on 04/27/2008, -1/+19Its because it allows Microsoft to lie to the public and their stockholders and get away with it. Buy purchasing a Vista 'Downgrade' to XP they get to claim they are selling Vista and that its so wonderful and don't have to suffer the repercussions that most companies do when they shovel out crap onto the consumer.
          • TheKingInYellow, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1isn't "buy purchasing" a little redundant?
          • r3zonance, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Not when it's a typo, and if you take the time to read it you'll see he mean "By purchasing".

            But, way to go to completely miss the point.
        • rpgmaker, on 04/27/2008, -0/+9It is the same money but the latter shows that you really screw it up with your latest product.
        • grimward, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2I still don't get it, they've done this before with windows XP/windows 2000, and nobody cried wolf back then either.
    • jabberwolf, on 04/27/2008, -12/+6'It seems that Microsoft will do anything to pad their $14 billion net income."
      They are selling it either way and still have 90% of the market.
      But users always have choice to use Vista when they run into a wall with programs starting to only run well in Vista.

      But I'm sure you'll find something to complain about somehow, someway, about MS listening to customers and vendors and giving everyone options.

      Wait for it, soon you will complain - TOO MANY OPTIONS!!
      • psykiv, on 04/27/2008, -3/+21There are too many options. Was it really necessary to make like a hundred versions of vista?
        Customer: I want vista
        Salesman: Which version? Starter? Home Basic? Home Premium? Home Basic N? Business? Business N? Enterprise? Ultimate? Ultimate Bill Gates Edition?
        Customer: uh... I guess I'll take Ultimate.
        Salesman: Great! Do you need the 32 bit version or the x64 version?
        Customer: :calls 10 year old neighbor who fixes his computer: The 32 bit version
        Salesman: Great. So do you want the OEM Version? Or the volume license version? Or the Retail Version? Or the upgrade version?
        Customer: ***** this *****. This is too confusing.

        Yes, I know, technically you can't buy VL, Enterprise, or starter editions in stores, but you get the point.
        • earthforce1, on 04/27/2008, -2/+6Ironically, that is one of the biggest gripes I hear about linux - too much choice.

          Too many distros! Too many desktops! I'm confused!
          • popfrogs, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6Right but the Linux confusion doesn't cost you a dime and they all pretty much do the same thing.
        • insllvn, on 04/27/2008, -1/+6Try Linux! You might prefer Ubuntu or Ubuntu Studio or Xubuntu or Kubuntu or Edubuntu or PCLinuxOS or openSUSE or Mint or Fedora or Mandriva or Debian or Sabayon or Damn Small Linux or MEPIS or Dreamlinux or CentOS or Slackware or Gentoo or KNOPPIX or Puppy or Zenwalk or Arch or sidux or Slax or Vector or....
    • otrojake, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5I work for a small custom computer shop that sells primarily to schools and we've been doing this ever since Vista was released. And right now I'd say about 98% of our customers are going with the downgrade option to XP.
      • r3zonance, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Makes you wonder how many of copies of Vista that Balmer was claiming were sold (in his interview with Guy Kawasaki at Mix 08) were really XP sales?
  • farkis, on 04/27/2008, -25/+3That's great, but will they still bundle MSN with it? Then I can finally get rid of my Web TV when I get my new Dell.
    • afx1, on 04/27/2008, -5/+3farkiiiiiiiiis!!!!!! /waves fist in air
  • liuite, on 04/27/2008, -33/+3hasta la Vista, XP has been changed to hasta el numero 7. now if only OpenPC will find a loophole against Apple's EULA.
    • xkorbin, on 04/27/2008, -11/+17Buried for unnecessary use of spanish. That pun does not forgive you for the incorrect spelling and poorly formatted comment.
      • FatLoser, on 04/27/2008, -15/+10Buried for unnecessarily attacking a comment that wasn't hurting anybody with a comment that lacked any attempt at creativity and also for failing to capitalize Spanish right before criticizing spelling.
        • marx2k, on 04/27/2008, -3/+14Buried for excessively explaining reason for burying
          • xkorbin, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Dugg for offsetting excessive reasons for burying.
      • Phocion55, on 04/27/2008, -5/+16Buried for unnecessary use of English. Wait....
        • TheKingInYellow, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1buried for not following the chain of replying.
    • iharbinger, on 04/27/2008, -13/+1Kill yourself Grammar Nazi, nobody likes people who do this, I have no idea why there are millions who do.
      Its worse then spam.
      • Drahkar, on 04/27/2008, -3/+9Buried for replying to the wrong commenter and thus making themselves look foolish.
      • woelfman10, on 04/27/2008, -5/+7than spam
  • gallagherFTW, on 04/27/2008, -11/+183padding the vista sales with downgrades. classy.
    • wageslaven, on 04/27/2008, -29/+1Taking a standard license deal that very few real people will actually take advantage of and using it out of context as some kind of ridiculous FUD claim to bash MS... now that is classy.
      • grimward, on 04/27/2008, -3/+11Well, you know that's pretty much the last resort tactic that lesser skilled opponent will use to win an argument: slander.
        • luchid, on 04/27/2008, -0/+8It's wageslaven, what did you expect? His ass is so further up MS's ass he could make a fractal out of himself.
    • dafragsta, on 04/27/2008, -7/+15Hillary Clinton is doing it for Florida and Michigan. Why not?
    • Plastic3D, on 04/27/2008, -0/+14No wonder they bundle Vista upgrades with XP 64 OEMs early 2007.. they must have counted all those I bought as Vista sales. But guess where those upgrade coupons are?

      Deep in the file cabinet.

    • TheKeithD, on 04/27/2008, -8/+47You're calling XP a downgrade from Vista? That's implying that Vista is better than XP. Something is wrong here.
      • Syphon8, on 04/27/2008, -14/+7Ya, there should be no implying. Just outright say that Vista is better.
    • jabberwolf, on 04/27/2008, -19/+6Not giving people XP - bitch bitch bitch.
      Give people XP with VISTA - more options - still = bitch bitch bitch
      Accounting not wanting to keep records on variations of an older OS they want to get rid of.= bitch bitch bitch

      Something tells us that you will complain either way , yep pretty sure about that!
      • luchid, on 04/27/2008, -4/+1People want XP, they don't want Vista. Microsoft shouldn't be able to claim a vista sale when the user prefers XP. They're only doing it cause they know Vista is the worst consumer product to ever be set lose on the face of the earth.
      • BlackAdderIII, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Telling your investors and the world you sold somebody something, when you didn't: Dishonest, dishonest, dishonest.
    • EwMo, on 04/27/2008, -1/+10Just proves they want the money, they really don't care about getting the product out...
  • ElAssoWipo, on 04/27/2008, -23/+6How can anyone not have an XP installation disc in 2008?

    What the hell were they using up until now?
    • lfernandez91, on 04/27/2008, -9/+31Ubuntu? OSX?
      • ElAssoWipo, on 04/27/2008, -15/+9Everybody that has linux has XP.

        OSX I had not thought of.
        • Zap2, on 04/27/2008, -3/+13So System 76/Dell/Etc doesn't exist? Or people who build there own PCs? ANd what about people with PC from because XP, and installed Linux.

          "I had not thought of OS X", drop the "of OS X, and you're set!
        • frontporsche, on 04/27/2008, -0/+9> Everybody that has linux has XP

          How does that follow?
          • ElAssoWipo, on 04/27/2008, -5/+5I don't know they just plain do.

            Most Linux how-to sites have a section that explains how to dual boot with XP and every Linux user I've ever encountered had XP in dual boot.
          • ileftfark, on 04/27/2008, -0/+7Because its preposterous to think that this "linux" can run without Windows underneath it. Its a sham.

            /does anybody remember that story?
        • popfrogs, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2Yep, you're right for the most part. I know alot of people that dual boot because there's always one app that's Windows-only and they may need it to get work done. Also, dual boot is critical in the beginning for Linux noobs as a Linus-safety-blanket. They know if they get scared, lost, or just plain hate Linux, Windows is a reboot away and they've lost nothing.
      • wageslaven, on 04/27/2008, -16/+4There are fewer people on the planet using *BSD (NetBSD, FreeBSD, OSX) and GNU/Linux combined than use Vista.

        "What were they all using" -- well, the answer isnt "BSD or GNU/Linux".
    • PabloMac, on 04/27/2008, -11/+4I don't, but you wouldn't understand.
    • TheHolyLancer, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3but here is the thing, if you are using linux, unless you are a gamer in which case why switch in the first place, why brother to go back?
      • xino, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1So I can stream video from my PC to my Xbox 360.
    • bratterscain, on 04/27/2008, -0/+7You forget that most of us are probably beyond typical computer users. That little install CD that came with their computers is just extra. The OS and computer hardware to a lot of people are perhaps one in the same. Also, that OEM PC they bought probably won't install on another PC or if they had the full retail CD with their PC, they probably wouldn't think anything of it or have lost it.
    • lennybird, on 04/27/2008, -3/+3The latest disks also only let you install windows xp on one computer. So if you get another computer for your grandma, you can't just whip out your own cd key and expect it to work... What happened to me (with the exception of grandmas).
      • Echomote, on 04/27/2008, -0/+14You whipped out what for your grandma?
  • IsmailOo, on 04/27/2008, -17/+72lol, who really cares if it gets taken off the shelf, i'm sure most of you guys with home computers didn't pay for XP...
    • bratterscain, on 04/27/2008, -9/+77I did for XP and Vista. Not everyone pirates. Not that I'm an angel but an OS is the last thing you should pirate if you want a secure, stable system.
      • priegog, on 04/27/2008, -9/+22Could you put in a good word for me up there in redmond?
      • IsmailOo, on 04/27/2008, -11/+23okay bill gates.
      • burrgrinder, on 04/27/2008, -12/+3How's that working out for you?
      • LvsSocer, on 04/27/2008, -19/+20It's shocking how twisted some people's morals have gotten. That software is sold by a company - it's their product. Pirating commercial software is identical to walking into a book store and taking a book without paying, on justification that the initial work has already all been done and one shouldn't have to pay for a copy.
        Shame on those of you pirating and flouting it. There are many great working alternatives to windows. That last thing you should be doing is condoning piracy, you twits.
        Considering how highly most diggers think of themselves, its surprising how many condone piracy. For those that do: wake up and realize your justifications for piracy are just that - justifications for stealing.
        • earthforce1, on 04/27/2008, -11/+9The BSA/MPAA/RIAA finally let you out of room 101?
        • gr3yn3t, on 04/27/2008, -4/+14Don't bury him. He's right, you know...

          If you don't like the price, don't pay for it. There are alternatives.
        • xexx, on 04/27/2008, -5/+4If you're just going to go to the alternative anyway then microsoft doesn't gain anything now does it? Their bottom line is unchanged whether you pirate it or just decide to go with another OS.
        • erossmu, on 04/28/2008, -2/+0I don't have to put my pants on to "steal" Windows XP.
          Step 1: Download Torrent
          Step 2: Download XP whilst eating ramen
          Step 3: ???
          Step 4: Weep
      • Wakuko, on 04/27/2008, -10/+6"an OS is the last thing you should pirate if you want a secure, stable system"
        I pirated Ubuntu and it works just fine!
    • OverkillTASF, on 04/27/2008, -2/+21I didn't pay for XP. I got like a dozen promotional copies for attending various seminars.
    • MetaDFF, on 04/27/2008, -1/+21MSDN Academic Alliance is another way to get a copy of XP without having to pay.
      • wildmXranat, on 04/27/2008, -0/+9Your tuition pays for part of the licensing fees. That's true for our college.
    • noclss2000, on 04/27/2008, -1/+10I have a educational version that I got when I was in college, legal copy as well as my copy of Office 2003.

      who cares if it gets taken off the shelves? I DO as well as my clients that request us to order them new computers.
      • drgruney, on 04/27/2008, -6/+3You know... when you buy it dirt cheap, no box, at the school book store you probably signed a piece of paper saying that the software license expired when you graduated. Not that it stops anyone... but your system may not be legit.
        • MetaDFF, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4That's not necessarily true. My school allows you to continue using previously installed software (MSDNAA software) even after you are no longer a registered student, as long as you aren't using it for commercial purposes.
    • Lunarbunny, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3I paid for mine (Pro full), but I got it for $32 via a Microsoft employee.
    • Typhoon2009, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I paid for XP and Vista (Home and Premium respectively)... like Bratter said, I'd rather not take a gamble on my OS suddenly not functioning because of some crafty activation scheme.
    • lAciDl, on 04/28/2008, -1/+0action pack!
    • Wolfman~K, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Even if everyone here acquired xp without paying full retail, we are not the norm. It matters to the 90% of the population that needs an OS that works, and isn't savvy enough to "work the system."
    • bernlin2000, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2What? You assume that everyone pirates Windows XP? I may not like Microsoft, but I did buy XP in 2002, and I bought it again in 2006 (lost my old disc). Dumb thing to say
  • FuckXboxx, on 04/27/2008, -30/+71Why do corporations refuse to admit when they ***** up?

    I dual-boot Vista and XP and I haven't booted up Vista since I installed it. It's completely useless as an "upgrade" because you LOSE gaming performance.

    If they would just come out and say "Look, Vista sucks and we made a lot of mistakes with it. We're going to incorporate DX10 in Windows XP or refund the purchases of all gamers who took the Vista bait." they would be "internet heroes."
    • hotdamn, on 04/27/2008, -14/+9I'd applaud that move. Heads should be rolling at Redmond by now. I am looking forward to the next Windows, hoping they learned from their mistakes.
      • Zap2, on 04/27/2008, -11/+9Look to Ubuntu now or OS X
        • dsmx, on 04/27/2008, -5/+7I would but I like playing the POE2 mod for BF2.
        • StormlordElite, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Windows is still the best gaming platform in my opinion, and that's why I'm still on XP. Linux sounds like a great alternative OS, but until they can really support gaming like windows I could care less about it.
        • verkon, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2Getting os x or ubuntu really helps with not loosing gaming performance.
        • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -2/+2Sir, you misspelled Kubuntu.
      • PabloMac, on 04/27/2008, -14/+3"...hoping they learned from their mistakes."
        Or Apple's successes with OS X. Oh, wait...
      • Wakuko, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4Dugg you up for this "Heads should be rolling at Redmond"
        Dugg you down real hard for this "I am looking forward to the next Windows"
        • hotdamn, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1I'm a mac user fwiw, but it's always nice to see what Redmond blows the money out of their bottomless pockets on.
    • thetechkid, on 04/27/2008, -19/+3No, they would just be doing they job in releases good products.
    • NoelGallagher, on 04/27/2008, -40/+31I've used Vista since it came out and it works as advertised. Then again, i do have above idiot intelligence.
      • TheKeithD, on 04/27/2008, -11/+14Presenting a counter-point: Okay, nothing wrong with that.
        Needlessly tacking on a personal attack: Dugg down.
        • Kamujin, on 04/27/2008, -14/+5His response was appropriate to the comment.

          Dugg down for Anti-Vista bias.
          • FuckXboxx, on 04/27/2008, -6/+8Maybe you don't know what the word bias means.

            Bias means forming an opinion before you have experience.

            I experienced Vista and then formed an opinion. Maybe you're thinking of jumping to conclusions? Or maybe you just like sucking off bald crazy people?
          • wesd, on 04/27/2008, -6/+3@*****

            Words don't mean what you want them to mean, they actually have a definition! Try out a dictionary sometime...


            bias

            • noun - inclination or prejudice in favour of a particular person, thing, or viewpoint.

            - http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/bias?view=uk

            For anyone with basic common sense Vista is just fine. Just like OSX is, and just as XP was when every little bitch was complaining about that when it was released (and for a while afterwards!). Sheesh.
      • Kamujin, on 04/27/2008, -11/+7Agreed. Vista is a bit bloated but IMO is much better then XP.
      • AmnioticEntity, on 04/27/2008, -3/+7copy/paste still doesn't work for me, the time remaining dialog box just sits at "calculating"...i have to yank the power from my system to reboot every time i forget and use this timeless OS "Feature"....
        • Onyxblaze, on 04/27/2008, -5/+3Let's just say, if Vista works properly, it is better than XP, and for some people it does.
          • theaceoffire, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5If an OS does not work properly, you have a major issue.
        • Eddible, on 04/27/2008, -4/+3I think that just means you're an idiot rather than Vista being crap to be honest. Hate to burst your bubble or anything.
        • grimward, on 04/28/2008, -0/+3The copy/paste bug was resolved with SP1 you know?
          • AmnioticEntity, on 05/01/2008, -0/+1still broken for me..i'm using brand new 500gb/32mb cache sata2 hdd's...ich8...what else do i need to post? i can't submit an error report to ms so wtf do i do other than try and remember to never use my keyboard (anti-intuitive)..BLAH!
      • Beatmiser, on 04/27/2008, -3/+4I'm glad to hear I'm not the only who has had a pleasant experience with vista. It took a bit of getting used to but once I did, I enjoy it and have yet to experience any issues whatsoever.
        • Beatmiser, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I'm being dugg down because of a pleasant experience? Wow...
    • herrshuster, on 04/27/2008, -20/+27As someone else who boots both Vista and XP, I have to say something is wrong with you because I love vista. DX10 is great on my 3870. For under 500 bucks (you can look up the parts on newegg if you want) you can get a computer that runs vista (pirated, of course) great
      • Sendai129, on 04/27/2008, -9/+6Well sure you can get a cheap computer that can run vista... but now the clincher, can it run any other processes while it's running vista?
        • herrshuster, on 04/27/2008, -4/+7It has 2GB of ram (soon to be 4), a 3870 and 3200 IGP in crossfire, a 2.4ghz 64x2 processor
          yeah I think I can run other processes
          • theaceoffire, on 04/27/2008, -3/+2It requires 2GB to run the DESKTOP smoothly.
          • TehProphet, on 04/27/2008, -0/+42GB isn't much these days, the prices on DDR2 have dropped so much. You can get 2gb of DDR2 for a little over $30.
          • grimward, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2theaceoffice,it's called prefetch, google it.
          • r3zonance, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1Yeah but it has an AMD CPU by the sounds of it. That's nice and slow compared to a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo.
          • herrshuster, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2@ r3zonance...no actually it blows intels out of the water, but whatever your preference, that's fine
      • AmnioticEntity, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1"dude, i got a dell" small biz for $500! it wasn't a bad option for the price, vista basic, 20" widescreen lcd, intel c2d, 2gb ddr2, free shipping promo...500 bucks. added a new psu, 8800gts, 2gb ram for another $300 and i feel like i did well w this purchase.
    • llurker, on 04/27/2008, -6/+39I'm still waiting to hear them admit that about Windows ME.
      Ain't going to happen, they have share holders to please.

      • grungegbunny, on 04/27/2008, -2/+10Hey I still use winME :p


        jk
      • cquinnd, on 04/27/2008, -2/+2Windows ME actually ran fine when it was installed correctly; the problem was (compared to Win98SE and Windows 2000) it was a PITA to install 'correclty' for most users.
    • richiewrt, on 04/27/2008, -15/+29I too use Vista and XP, and Ubuntu, and Mac and have to say I have had no problems with vista. No problems with gaming or anything. Maybe its because I'm not trying to use a circa 1999 video card anymore. Upgrade your equipment if vista doesn't work. It wasn't designed with your tandy 1000 in mind. I have to say though, all in all, I prefer the Mac or Ubuntu.
      • FuckXboxx, on 04/27/2008, -3/+23I have an 8800GTX, AMD X2 overclocked to 3.2ghz, and 2 gigs of RAM.

        I just prefer my OS to boot in five seconds rather than two minutes. Everything just runs better in XP and Vista is needlessly slower. I'd understand if there were useful features causing the slowness of Vista, but there isn't. It's just eye candy =/
        • earthforce1, on 04/27/2008, -2/+7It isn't the eye candy, it is the DRM that is dragging it down.
          http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_c ...
          I have full eye candy running on Ubuntu 8.04 and it doesn't slow my OS down.

          • theaceoffire, on 04/27/2008, -1/+6No, they implemented the eye candy badly.
          • cquinnd, on 04/27/2008, -3/+2My Vista boots in just over 30 seconds on a machine that isn't half that powerful.
          • grimward, on 04/28/2008, -2/+2earthforce1, that article has been debunked as FUD for ages now. Digg up something TANGIBLE that proves that DRM is preventing me from doing something on my vista machine and if you hit it on the head right, I will personally post on my blog that I'm your bitch. And it has to be a Vista SPECIFIC mechnism which doesn't use any other code supplied by it, it has to be Vista ONLY stuff.
          • r3zonance, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2No it is not the DRM, as much as you'd like it to be that. The DRM is only every used when content requires it.
      • Kamujin, on 04/27/2008, -8/+4I tripple boot all 3 on my macBook.

        Ubuntu is my main.
        Vista is close 2nd choice.
        OS X is third, but still decent. (Sorry, Apple is way to evil for my tastes)
        • edelay, on 04/27/2008, -4/+3I dual boot my Macbook with Vista and OSX. I prefer Vista. More stable, faster...
        • jackalsclaw, on 04/27/2008, -2/+2I love OS 10 , but I can totally see what you mean when you say apple is evil. Steve jobs is like a bond villain, and apple fan are sometimes cult like.
        • chops, on 04/28/2008, -1/+2Wait why the hell did you purchase, let alone continue to use a macbook if you think Apple is "way too evil for my tastes"?
          • Kamujin, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1Fair question. I bought the macBook because I like the design and hardware specs.
            I wanted to try it and learn a bit more about OS X.
            I don't think I'll buy another.
            I hope this answers your question.
      • burrgrinder, on 04/27/2008, -0/+8I have no problems upgrading hardware if there is a perceived need, but upgrading for an OS is pretty ridiculous, especially for the difference between XP and Vista. Vista offers very minimal improvement for the significantly larger hardware requirements over XP.

        DX10 is really the only compelling reason to upgrade.
      • RealJimShady, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2I'll agree with you richiewrt. I've been running Vista, and I'm not experiencing any overall slowness. The thing is stable, hasn't BSOD'd once. There's been a few obvious release bugs which were patched pretty quickly. Overall I'm happy with it and can't wait to try out server 2008.
    • Murdats, on 04/27/2008, -6/+26I have been using vista for over a year, and as far as gaming I have had no problems, ran fine on my old computer (well as well as xp did, but there is a reason its now my old computer) and I can almost max out crysis on my new computer, so if I can almost max out crysis in vista, I would say vista is handling games just fine.
      also go to a lan, pretty much everyone there is gamers and there is a significant number of vista boxes, do you think they would be running them if they didnt play games well?
      • herrshuster, on 04/27/2008, -2/+6I'm not criticizing you (i dugg you up), but what are the specs on this box? the maxed out one
      • edelay, on 04/27/2008, -4/+6When I find people that hate Vista, it is usually because they haven't used it, or used it more than once.
      • jackalsclaw, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1copying files over the network took forever! i replaced my network card cause i thought it was broken and it didn't help.
      • Murdats, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2q6600 quad core, 8800gtx, 2gb ram and a 5 year old system drive, and 4 year old game drive. decent but nothing awesome.
        and as of yet havent gotten around to overclocking
        • amdforever, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1"Decent but nothing awesome".

          Sorry, but are you ***** kidding me?
          • Murdats, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1ok the gfx card is awesome, the cpu is mass produced massivley so its quite cheap, all in all it cost me $1500 aud, so probably ~$1000 usd
            its a good rig that I can trust to play anything on max (except crysis, almost though) and its all high end without heading into the 'enthusiast' (read: ripoff) domain.
    • grimward, on 04/27/2008, -7/+13You know, I always hear alot of people complain about poor gaming performance, but do tell, you who have crap ass performance in vista, do you have non-beta and officially supported drivers? Do you have an instrument to accurately measure gaming performance which is supported on BOTH platforms? Because as far as I know, what everybody is whining about is that 3Dmark is showing decreased performance, and yet .. it doesn't support Vista OR DX10, so really, give me some facts here! (and no, I'm not talking about anecdotal "it FEELS like it's running faster ZOMG!" I want numbers, real hardcore numbers!
    • jabberwolf, on 04/27/2008, -7/+8LOL @ coming from "*****"
      Really you want to bash MS , I would never have guessed!!

      So far everyone in the media and entertainment industry has embraces Vista. have you seen Apple TV much in combo with a flat screen these days? Nope they are all using Vista Media center !

      Not to mention MOST games are still using many older API calls that Vista allows for. Newer games are taking advantage of Vista's new api calls and ***** runs pretty ***** fast if not faster then XP. And better features with DX10. many programmers are just starting to use features with DX10 because not many people have the latest graphic cards that support it.

      You complain about programs not running faster on Vista but refuse to realize that the programs were MADE FOR XP!
      It would be like bitching about how XP games cant even run on OSX - NO DUH !!
      • FuckXboxx, on 04/27/2008, -5/+4Why do I care at all about the media and entertainment industry? I'm a gamer...not a movie buff.

        I'm talking about games...not programs.

        Name one game that runs faster in Vista than XP on an Nvidia card (ATI is even worse). You can't...

        Why do people pledge loyality to these corporations that don't give a flaming flying ***** about them? Microsoft doesn't care about you and defending their subpar OS doesn't give you brownie points with Captain Baldy.
        • petard, on 04/27/2008, -3/+7I do not give a ***** if a game runs 1-2FPS slower in Vista then XP. The new search engine alone is worth it!
          • FuckXboxx, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1I choose to organize my files...I don't need a search engine. I've timed it and I'm faster at finding files than the search 99 times out of 100.

            Maybe you just don't care enough about your computer to understand how it performs, and more importantly, how much better it could perform.
        • TehProphet, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1World of Warcraft.
          http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTE ...
          • FuckXboxx, on 04/29/2008, -1/+1I stand corrected. I like it when people can prove me wrong :)

            However...I play Shards of Dalaya (Everquest emulator) as I can't stand World of Warcraft. Sweet irony...
    • djdole, on 04/27/2008, -3/+9@***** & hotdamn
      I'm guessing neither of you are old enough to even remember XP's release.
      When XP was released, quite a few Windows 95/98 games didn't function as well either.
      And 90% of those flaws were with third-party video drivers. Most of the remaining problems were corrected in SP1 or SP2.
      I haven't had one single problem gaming on my name-brand Vistabox.
      Now, my homebrew shuttle with old off-brand components, that one ***** a brick with Vista. (Which is why it's now my Fedora box).

      So how about you update your drivers and don't buy ***** ass hardware then bitch and whine blaming all the problems on the operating system when your incompatible drivers don't work.
      • FuckXboxx, on 04/27/2008, -7/+5Actually I was working in IT when XP was released and I remember it perfectly. I never had any problems gaming on XP. I've used every version of Windows that has ever been released.

        I've updated drivers and all of that basic crap that any idiot knows how to do. I ***** troubleshoot computer problems all day for a living. Your attitude that you somehow have superior knowledge is really uncalled for. Just because you don't notice the difference in performance doesn't mean it isn't there. I've been gaming since before I could walk and I notice something as minute as a drop in 5 frames per second and it drives me nuts.

        My drivers are updated and I get 11,000+ 3dmarks in 3dmark06...I'm not whining. I'm saying M$ ***** up on Vista and they won't admit it. I also said what they could do to shift public opinion of an OS that has had its negative features greatly exaggerated.
        • grimward, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1So you're using an outdated piece of software to prove a point about a technology and platform it doesn't support? (hint: 3dmark isn't supported for either vista or DX10) Wow, it's amazing you haven't lost your job then!
          • FuckXboxx, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1XP isn't outdated. I'm using it because I like it more than Vista. The 3dmark number was a figure to reference the power of my computer to defeat claims I'm running it on "outdated 1999 hardware."

            Notice I didn't say I get 9500 3dmarks in Vista and 11,000+ in XP (that's the case anyhow) because I wasn't comparing the OSes.

            And what are you talking about proving a point about technology??? Where did you pull that out of because it stinks like your ***** ass.

            Everyone I work with hates Vista. I'm neutral on it for office use but the only benefit we've been able to find in Vista is that you're able to control power settings through GPOs. That might save us five hours in the long run... Do you work in IT? I can't believe you acted like you knew what you were talking about/haven't lost YOUR job yet.
          • grimward, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1My point is that you can't really make any calls saying that Vista is crap for gaming, whereas I can't make any calls that Vista is good for gaming, because there simply DOES NOT exist a tool yet that will give either of us a valid benchmark. As for the 3Dmark remark, I have to say that it certainly seemed like you were implying that Vista got 11K in 3Dmark in your last post. The point I made about technology was that Vista uses DX10, which pretty much is the reason why 3Dmark should be reporting erroneous stats.

            However, I will admit that I'm very curious about the benchmarks that are going to be run when the Vista compatible version comes out later on this year.
    • bdbr, on 04/27/2008, -2/+4"Why do corporations refuse to admit when they ***** up?"

      For the same reason politicians don't admit fault - because the media is always salivating for dirt, and the media feeds mob mania.
    • NYankee2003, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5because then share value plummets.
    • OwenX, on 04/27/2008, -4/+2I run with a Intel Quad Core Q6600, 4GB of ram, and an 8800GTS (g92 revision) and Crysis has avg 14fps increase on Vista then on XP.

    • LewisBreaker, on 04/28/2008, -1/+3I forgot that most people who use this website didn't realise PC's are used for a lot of other things instead of just playing games! For media production Vista is a hell of a lot better as an operating system. But I guess not many of you know about AVID, Smoke and other useful and creative things PC's are used for. To you it's all about playing your games on.
  • wush, on 04/27/2008, -7/+39Seems to me like the type of person who'd expressly want XP wouldn't be buying pre-made machines in the first place.
    • Aidenf77, on 04/27/2008, -6/+10Actually, I've been to two new jobs now over the course of a year where I needed a new workstation fast and they both needed to be XP. Dell was the ticket in both cases. I can only assume my needs aren't out of the ordinary in the business world even now.
    • cdigioia, on 04/27/2008, -3/+15Actually, the majority of Dell's sales are to businesses (who have IT departments & thus know to want XP)
    • wush, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I did say person rather than business. I don't mean this story specifically, but rather the general "we want XP" user backlash.
      • Aidenf77, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I was looking at this from the perspective of Dell, who has people (as in several persons) calling requesting pre-made machines with XP all the time. I wasn't arguing with you, or trying to make you look wrong. I was merely presenting a different perspective. But it's all good, the fan boys and the ultra-sensitive are taking things out of context and making their mark on my comments as I type this.
    • noclss2000, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6...forgetting about people who order laptops?
      those are a little more tricky to build.
      • staticx57, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2Then blame Intel for their garbage graphics supposed processors. Any Nvidia 7 or 8 series(or ATi equivalent) should be able to handle vista just fine assuming it's not a 200 dollar laptop.
    • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3You do not speak for my fellow laptop enthusiasts.
    • ExSlashdotter, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Who is digging this up?

      The people who want XP are *exactly* who is buying premade machines: corporations and their IT departments. Do you think we sit around and build *hundreds* of machines from scratch when doing hardware rollouts? No way. We get an actual contract with somebody like Dell so that they offer the exact same hardware for us for a certain amount of time (to make managment and imaging easier).

      You talk as if the gamer-type PC tower tweaker is the only kind of computer user out there. Far from it. As a network admin, we usually get a shipment of 52 laptops *per week* to roll out to our employees.
  • OJdidntdoIT, on 04/27/2008, -3/+134Real LINK..............
    http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/1451 ...

    PC World wrote this article not these ***** content thieves.
    • bubbakja, on 04/27/2008, -2/+3yea but that picture is classic
    • StormlordElite, on 04/27/2008, -3/+9I don't know if you can read but at the bottom of the article is has this little thing called a source... "[PC World]"
      • jannefoo, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3why not link there instead when submitting to digg? Gizmodo is notorious for their lack of ORIGINAL content durrr
        • brianara3, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0No *****... it's a BLOG.... they just report on content they find. They also have some original stories, but not many. Same as Ars Technica and Engadget...
    • Kratos76, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5And CNet had it even earlier:
      http://www.cnet.com/8301-13554_1-9928619-33.html?p ...
  • stoperror, on 04/27/2008, -3/+12Does this really come as a shock to anyone? As the article states, MS has been doing this for years in the corporate environment. It does; however, make me curious how many copies of Office, Windows, and Windows Server are downgrade licensed. I would estimate that around 50% of the software on the network I manage is licensed this way.
    • bubbaislazy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5It doesn't come to a shock to me nor should it to anyone who's ever supported Windows. Downgrade rights are available only for what's considered business SKUs and volume license holders. The only exception of the rule is Vista Ultimate which MS considers a consumer SKU but still retains downgrade rights to XP Pro.

      A company I worked for kept Windows 2000 on desktops up until late 2006 when they finally started pushing XP on all desktops. Long after OEMs stopped selling Windows 2000 on desktops in 2004. It's armchair CIOs jump on this like flies on ***** as another excuse to bash Microsoft.
    • endlessoul, on 04/27/2008, -0/+483% of all statistics are pulled RIGHT OUT OF YOUR ASS.
  • Aidenf77, on 04/27/2008, -4/+5It makes sense that retailers are exploiting any loophole they can. Their clientele want XP above Vista. If not selling XP is going to negatively impact their sales, then it makes good business sense to find every angle possible to continue selling it.
  • momsshizzle, on 04/27/2008, -34/+12Yawn, another anti-Microsoft story. Buried. Linsux.
  • glowfood, on 04/27/2008, -12/+1OGC
  • llurker, on 04/27/2008, -9/+8The first six months when Vista was released, I was able to get 'downgrade' rights from Vista Home Premium to XP Media Center 2005, took a lot of patiences but was able to get new keys issued. Haven't had any luck since last June.
    Dell doesn't have much choice, the horror stories of vista are spreading like a cancer and no amount of marketing MS does will kill it. Dell wants to stay in business and are just making it easier for their customers, and rightly so.
    • Murdats, on 04/27/2008, -4/+4sorry but I remember those same horror stories when xp came out (it has been a while so most people have forgotten themselves complaining by now).
      • clak, on 04/27/2008, -2/+6I don't remember XP running slower than Windows 98. The complaints about XP were related to lack of drivers and compatibility issues, so please stop using that poor excuse. Vista is just a badly designed, bloated operating system. It's nothing like XP.
        • ZippyV, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3If you search hard enough you will find a lot of articles claiming that XP runs games slower than WinME/98
      • jabberwolf, on 04/27/2008, -3/+3Its usually young stupid kids that dont remember windows 98 or disgruntled Mac users that need to make themselves feel better because their Macs arent as useful. They look good yes, but everyday Apple keeps pissing off and losing software vendors.
    • jabberwolf, on 04/27/2008, -5/+8"the horror stories of vista are spreading like a cancer"
      Thos stories are usually spread by people who HAVE NEVER USED VISTA!

      I serioulsy have not had a problem with Vista. I have had issues with in place upgrade of Vista... I would never advise that but then I would never advise that with ANY os ! So far Vista is the fastest damm thing I've come across... with programs that are MADE for vista that is.

      But again the same thing happened with win98 to XP. And ironically XP had people upgrading their systems with alot less bitching. NOw vista wants people to get more memory when memory is at its cheapest price ever and all this mactards are blogging the hell out of how bad vista is.

      Real Vista users have very few complaints and everyone that uses Vista media center at home is laughing their asses off at Mac users trying to hype Apple TV !! Or how about how now Vista has adobe's 64 bit support and Leopard does NOT!!!

      Now what are professionals using = VISTA !!
      • marx2k, on 04/27/2008, -2/+2Right... theres a mass conversion to Vista in most if not all IT shops due to better security, memory management, crash protection, general stability, improvements over the predecessor... or not..
      • FairDinkumMate, on 04/27/2008, -3/+3Wow you really are a moron(or some magical being with THE knowledge of the universe)! Your comments:
        'Thos(sic) stories are usually spread by people who HAVE NEVER USED VISTA!'
        SOURCE? Doesn't exist. You just stated your(undoubtedly VERY insightful) opinion as though it is FACT
        'I serioulsy(sic) have not had a problem with Vista'
        So that of course means NOBODY else has either & they're just whinging for the sake of it
        'Real Vista users have very few complaints '
        What is a REAL Vista user(I can only guess it's one of those counted as a Vista purchase that didn't actually downgrade to XP!)
        '...and everyone that uses Vista media center at home is laughing their asses off...'
        Do you know EVERYONE that uses Vista media centre?
        'Now what are professionals using = VISTA !!'
        SOURCE? Or again did you just state your(undoubtedly VERY insightful) opinion as FACT?

        • sporad1c, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2You forgot to call him a douche bag for taking Vista's side in the first place.
        • darlingt, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1No *****. I got my laptop last August, and I decided to go with Vista. I'm sorry I did.
  • surfernerd6987, on 04/27/2008, -23/+16And in other news, I purchased my first Apple laptop yesterday in order to avoid the hassles, and problems of Vista, and the overlord of Microsoft.
    • Lazydriver, on 04/27/2008, -8/+10Have fun with your self-sense of superiority for using a Mac, Steve Jobs is a greedy bastard that: if he were in Microsoft's place, would make the Microsoft we know now look like Disneyland.

      Dead serious. Why? It's illegal for a person to make a Macintosh computer unless authorized by Apple: and get this, Steve Jobs destroys the rights to use your OWN DAMN $600 PHONE just because you want to change your carrier, or, god forbid, use a third party app.

      Microsoft succeeded BECAUSE they didn't care who bought their software and how they used it - as long as it was bought. Course, it was buggy as all hell, but XP's running fine for the most part and I get the same error frequency as I do with Ubuntu, Fedora Core, or Mac OS X.3/.4/.5
    • grimward, on 04/27/2008, -3/+11So you traded one commercial entity for another. Wow, next you'll be telling me how you switched detergent because somebody told you Ariel were bad news! RIVETING!
    • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -4/+4Enjoy your failbook.
      • wacomwacoff, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1What, you mean my Mac laptop that runs XP and Vista faster than your PC laptop does... as well as OS X? Yeah, it's full of win. Thanks!
    • sporad1c, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ma ...
  • koboko, on 04/27/2008, -10/+1
    It's either you have it or you don't, make it happen.... the royal bank of microsoft!
  • razdigital, on 04/27/2008, -11/+4I sold my OEM copy that I got from dell for $10 off to some one on Ebay. Made a $70 profit, been trying out vista (through school MSDN license ) and I a ready to downgrade, the thing is a memory hog. Better off just using Linux at least you can add your own eye candy and xp in a dual boot with that combination you get the speed and eye candy with no added fat.
    • Murdats, on 04/27/2008, -1/+11linux wont save you, the new version of ubuntu implements the same form of precaching vista does, and while you wont understand why this is a good thing, wait till you see it in linux and start preparing to praise it (and its a safe bet mac os will implement it in some form soon, and then it will be the best invention ever)
    • etx313, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2It's not a memory hog. Disable superfetch and it wont cache stuff in your memory. Freaking research before you comment. --Written on my macbook pro
  • BellaFerrari, on 04/27/2008, -13/+6As someone stated above, Vista works just as it was advertised - it really does. The problem is that everyone is comparing it to XP and that is the root of all of this. Granted, Vista is not as good as XP, but that is the main reason that Vista is failing so badly. XP was/is far superior but Vista looks nicer, has lots of great new features and I'm sure most people would love it if XP didn't come out beforehand. I know lots of people who are more than happy with Vista the way it is but, just like everything else in the world; the negative comments are heard the loudest.
    • koboko, on 04/27/2008, -3/+4well said Bella. From an objective look, i think Vista is as good as any operating system, but as you rightly put it, why juxtapose these two? On the subjective side, i am glad to say i run a video editing business, 4 monitors plus TV, constantly connected via citrix clients to about 10 apps, based on my use, it runs impeccably. XP on the other hand, i believe was the worst creation ever. I never seem to be able to run a HD on XP for a month without running into issues/viruses. Other than gaming and a minute set of nuances, i barely see a difference.

      Just like the huge xbox vs s3, people will keep comparing and picking out slight pros to their preferred console, thereby halting their chance at open mindedness and enjoying each independent system for their merits.
    • akkibaba, on 04/27/2008, -3/+7As I recall, there's a class-action lawsuit currently being litigated that claims that Vista does not in fact work as advertised. Secondly, you seem to be saying that XP, which came out in 7 years ago, is superior to Vista and that Vista is 'just ok'. Don't you think that Microsoft should be able to do better with their unlimited resources and 7 year development time?
      • koboko, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1I'm sure it was more of a hyperbole on Bella's part. Granted XP is stable and developer friendly, Vista is so vetted that it's slightest con is outstretched to fulfil an agenda. I use Vista/Fedora 8, not XP. I mean, i would even take win2000 over XP.

      • Amiga500, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2No, you do not recall the correct information. The lawsuit is from mislabeling machines that did not have adequate hardware to run Vista properly. Vista was never built to run on these lower class machines, but they were advertised to the public as being 'Vista Capable'.
      • Joeyrev, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1Perhaps you're too young to remember this, or just weren't paying attention at the time, but when XP was released there were numerous problems; including severe holes in it's security. Compared to XP's release, Vista has done very well. You also have to remember, yes XP came out seven years ago, and that's seven solid years to fix any problems that came up with the system.

        On a personal note, I've used Vista for a year now and it has run flawless for me. Before you digg me down and reply with your hate, I'm NOT saying Vista is flawless. I'm sure there are people who have their problems, but the majority of Vista users I know are happy with the OS. As bella said, the negative comments are heard the loudest, and those who are satisfied have no reason to speak up.
    • CCmachined, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3"Vista looks nicer, has lots of great new features" < what great new features? the root admin rip-off system thats more naggy and doesnt work (UAC)? superfetch? readyboost? and you really want to spend $100+ AND upgraded hardware components just for some weak graphics that get 0wned by Linux with Compiz? come on.
      • BellaFerrari, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0First, you need to relax. I'm not a computer nerd, I don't know what the heck you're talking about, but my comment is aimed at the average user - such as myself. I like the way Vista looks compared to other operating systems. I like the new features that Vista has. That being said, I like and understand XP better overall. Notice how I kept talking about myself and my own opinions? That's what a comment is - expressing how I feel about something. Though I'm sure you felt a lot better after ripping on my comment and trying to come across as being intelligent made you feel better for about 5 seconds and if so - go you!
        • BlackAdderIII, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1"""I'm not a computer nerd, I don't know what the heck you're talking about,"""

          Then wtf did your judgement that XP is "superior" to vista come from, or that vista "works as advertised"?

          Are you saying those comments were garbage? It sure sounds like it.
  • wageslaven, on 04/27/2008, -28/+23" licensing that lets weaselly Microsoft pad their numbers."

    So, MS will sell them a Vista license that permits them access to XP. Big deal. Digg & Gizmodo, always looking for a FUD angle on MS.

    The fact about Vista is that it is one hell of a terrific OS, and it is the second most used OS on the planet, with more users than the rest combined (all the BSDs and GNU/Linux distros combined).

    As more people get to use Vista, I have no fear that they'll realize that the FUD is just flat wrong.
    • eth3l, on 04/27/2008, -10/+12"As more people get to use Vista, I have no fear that they'll realize that the FUD is just flat wrong."

      No doubt. Vista is far superior to XP.
    • frontporsche, on 04/27/2008, -4/+12The issue is that it becomes more difficult to measure how terrific of an OS it is, when the number of Vista users advertised by Microsoft really comprises some XP users as well.
    • DeFex, on 04/27/2008, -5/+7If it was a womens shampoo commercial they could just say "now with 54% more terrifficness"
    • Shenzhov, on 04/27/2008, -8/+5FUD? I spent all of last weekend trying to install Vista on my desktop and all I'd get was a blue screen, then reboot loop. Over and over again and I have a high end desktop system. I plan to just microwave my Vista disks and this will be the last Microsoft product I ever piss my money away on.
      • Joeyrev, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1I wouldn't recommend Vista for you, or any OS for that matter that requires you to follow step by step instructions.
    • Jexie, on 04/27/2008, -3/+7You're confusing Vista with all of windows. Vista has less market share than OS X alone now, and certainly less than *nix put together (especially since you refer just to OS not desktop/servers). Vista is the steaming piece of ***** reincarnation of WindowsME, for performance and usage.
      • cquinnd, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1Not in the support dept I work in. While calls for computer setup assistance are predominantley on Windows XP, I'd say a conservative estimate of the rest are 2 to 1 in favor or Vista over OS X.
      • dig1x, on 04/28/2008, -1/+1According to wikipedia (and their many sources) Vista is used by more than MacOS + Linux;

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_deskto ...

        I think we might just excuse your last sentance due to your clear ignorance and zealotry.


      • jdpalite, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2That's funny, the wikipedia table shows Vista as having more market share than OSX or Linux, but isn't this entire article about how downgrade rights mean that number of Vista licenses sold doesn't necessarily equal number of Vista licenses in use?
  • clak, on 04/27/2008, -13/+9I would like to use Vista on my Boot Camp partition, but I just can't stomach Microsoft spying constantly on my computer. The activations introduced with XP were bad enough, but now I'm supposed to just smile while Vista phones home? I don't think so.
    • isayx3, on 04/27/2008, -5/+14Yeah..that miscrosoft! wait what browser is this...Safari! how did that happen!?!?!
    • grimward, on 04/27/2008, -3/+5I'd like to see this phone home behaviour in a wireshark log please, in fact, i'm pretty sure many Vista users like me who have no such behaviour would like to see it. http://www.wireshark.com
    • aliguana, on 04/27/2008, -3/+7well, OSX doesn't need to phone home, because Jobs already has your credit-card details, your address etc when you bought your Mac. Infact, Microsoft is LESS evil, because it just "phones home" to check that it's a valid licence, Microsoft don't have your address, bank details, blood samples etc
    • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -3/+1There will be a crack eventually.
      When XP came out, a few of my fellow IT professionals were saying it would not be cracked, that the activation scheme (or rather SCAM) was too good. Now nearly everyone I know has n XP VLK disk.
  • Myztry, on 04/27/2008, -4/+16I've got a ten thousand year old axe. It's had 13 new handles, and 5 new heads. But it's still the same axe.
    (Yet another example of deception by substitution...)
    • grimward, on 04/27/2008, -7/+5Ah, so you mean a new TCP stack, new audio stack, encryption scheme, IPV6 support, precaching of applications, increased security permissions is worthless? Wow, I guess you must be posting this digg comment from your ancient ENIAC computer then? :O
      • Myztry, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I've had a few computer's like that. Some would say they were just the same case though :)
  • aseriesoftubes, on 04/27/2008, -10/+18I've been using Vista for six months now and I still miss XP. Not that XP was a great operating system but at least it was stable and a little less bloated.
    • eth3l, on 04/27/2008, -7/+16I have been using Vista since it was released. I cannot stand XP anymore at the office and have been begging IT to let me test a Vista system in our environment.

      DIff'rent strokes for Diff'rent folks.
      • wafu, on 04/27/2008, -10/+5did you really need that apostrophe? btw vista sucks
        • bradsh, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5it's a reference, so yeah, he does need the apostrophes
      • CCmachined, on 04/27/2008, -7/+4youre a common sheep. WHY do you NEED vista? you're addicted to those oh-my-god-orgasm-not graphics? ha! I use Ubuntu Linux with Compiz, and it 0wns Vistas graphics, even if you get Ultimate. I'm still OK with XP at my school though (yes, I'm in high school. that just shows how easy ubuntu _really_ is)
        • Syphon8, on 04/27/2008, -2/+3You're a common sheep. WHY do you NEED Ubuntu? WHY do you PREFER XP?You give high schoolers a bad name.
      • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -4/+3Good luck stripping out the bloat... I have been modding and stripping XP since it was released, vista was like hitting a brick wall, it is like the proverbial "car with the hood welded shut"
        If I can't mod my OS, I am not content with it.
        • earthforce1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1> If I can't mod my OS, I am not content with it.
          Now THERE's a man who ought to be running Linux with a custom/tweaked kernel!
          !
      • sputty, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1If your into bloatware then vista's just fine, i on the other hand like to carry out file manipulation tasks without it taking 3/4 times as long as it should do. Hello Linux :)
    • CCmachined, on 04/27/2008, -3/+2(ignore)
  • eth3l, on 04/27/2008, -7/+11Who cares?

    • realn0whereman, on 04/27/2008, -3/+6Businesses that deal with computers. This is great news because less phone calls I answer will have the "oh... so youre on vista... umm....." in them. (im in the IT field)
      • cquinnd, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1Treat Vista just like XP for the majority of trouble calls and you should be fine. They IT guys that mess themselves up are the ones who approach it with an "OMG its different so I can't support it!" attitude.
  • jjackson, on 04/27/2008, -6/+12The businesses, governments and schools in my county won't buy Vista. They fear being lead down the path where they will have to replace dozens of machines for consistencies sake. The one business that did decide to replace all of their machines went to OS X.
  • CaviMike, on 04/27/2008, -7/+11The letters X and P next to each other look like a smilie laughing and sticking his tongue out at me more and more every day.

    XP
  • totorototoro, on 04/27/2008, -1/+6So basically "sales" of Vista don't have a bearing on the actual usage/popularity of Vista...and XP's actual usage/popularity isn't being deterred by the fact you can't buy XP anymore?

    That's just a bit weird :P
    • dig1x, on 04/28/2008, -2/+0Popular usage can (and is tracked) by internet usage - Vista is the second most used OS, more than BSD (including OSX) and GNU/Linux combined.

      This story is just Gizmodo talking nonsense, why wouldnt MS want to make sure its customers are happy?
    • neko, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Of course not - Microsoft's customers are the OEMs, not the poor suckers who actually use their OS. As long as MS sells lots of licenses to the manufacturers, Vista has been a roaring success.
  • statmobile, on 04/27/2008, -11/+13You know, I just had this problem when helping my sister buy a new laptop. I convinced her to buy a "better" laptop than just the cheapest Dell, due to concerns with Vista, so we went with Lenovo. Vista Home Premium is a joke, her machine doesn't even respond 5 minutes into logging in, and that's after turning off all the Vista goodies, and 2GB of RAM!!!

    So I call Lenovo, upset with the performance, and straight form their mouth they told me to put XP on the machine. I complained that she doesn't have an XP license, so they should provide her with one, I don't want to pirate a copy! Well, they told me that they can't do that, because she only has Vista Home Premium.

    So forget about inflating Vista numbers, look at this extra XP tax you'll have to pay in order to get the license. It says you need to buy it under Vista Ultimate or Business, check the prices, that's at least $100 more than Home Premium, and that's just for XP Home!!!

    ***** Lenovo, and ***** Microsoft!!! I should have stuck with my guns more with my sister, and really convinced her to buy an Apple. Now she essentially has a $1200 paper weight.
    • tomz17, on 04/27/2008, -2/+3IMHO not Lenovo's fault that they could not break their licensing agreements with Microsoft and issue you a key.
      • statmobile, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Yeah, but should we have to buy Vista Ultimate or Premium to downgrade?
    • marx2k, on 04/27/2008, -3/+4Give me the $1200 paperwight so I can run Linux on it
      • statmobile, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Already in my long-term plans if all else fails. Just don't have the time to fart around with it, and she's in another state.
    • petard, on 04/27/2008, -7/+7No, ***** YOU! I have 2 Laptops with 2GB of RAM and Core 2 Duo processors, and Vista runs GREAT and you can use it 100% 30 seconds after you see your desktop. Just format the laptop and install vista yourself, with no OEM bloatware, and it will run great, dont be a douchebag!
      • statmobile, on 04/27/2008, -3/+4***** YOU petard, just 'cause you have a good experience doesn't mean that I'm wrong. I'm mainly pointing out the fact that in order to downgrade to XP Home, you have to buy the high-end Vista version. Grow up!
      • ZellD, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I think the point is that XP with OEM bloatware runs much better than Vista with OEM bloatware. I use Vista on my high-end laptop and it's fine. But I've seen far too many people with new laptops that simply can't handle Vista. Logon and shutdown times are ridiculous.

        Also I'm not sure RAM is the only deciding factor in whether Vista runs well.
      • earthforce1, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1> 2GB of RAM and Core 2 Duo processors
        I would bet that everybody ho claims vista runs "just great, what are you complaining about?" is running it on a PC with similar specs. With that much CPU power and RAM, Vista can be horribly coded and DRMed up the wazoo with full eye candy and most people won't notice.
        • HolyChimp, on 04/27/2008, -1/+32gig of ram and a dual core processor are pretty much standard these days.
      • statmobile, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Ironically, those are the specs I convinced her to buy, because I knew Vista needed the power. Somehow, it's still a piece of *****. I'm hoping to get a reinstall disk based upon the comments here, and see how it runs without the Lenovo stuff.
    • madhellrazor, on 04/27/2008, -2/+5You probably turned something off when u "turned off all the Vista goodies" as most users have no clue what they are turning off; Maybe it was the crap Lenovo put on there? Try reformatting then come back and bitch about it less services does not mean it will be better or faster; and you are probably killing ones that she might actully use, like search, or Superfetch to speed up app lunches because you think its better for her.
      • statmobile, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Any advice on where I can get a Vista install DVD? She says that she didn't get anything in the package?
    • alittleroy101, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Tell you what: I'll buy that paper weight for 100 bucks.
    • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1Just pirate XP VLK, it gets easier every time you see MS pulling some scheme/scam like the one we're reading about now.
      • gsmumbo, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0Yeah. You gotta hate that scheming MS when they do things like put clauses in their liscensing agreements that say you can downgrade to a more stable operating system if you want. Dear God what were those bastards thinking?
    • statmobile, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4Hey, I'm not trying to be a basher, I just live in a different state than my sister. It's not like I can just take it for the weekend and fix it, besides I'm busy trying to finish up my PhD. I personally think the problem is mainly due to the Intel graphics chip, but there's no way for me to prove it. Let me say two things...

      A. How can I reinstall Vista if I don't have a Vista DVD? I remember reading that you could install a trial version way back, but how does one do that? I use linux and OS X, so I've been out of the MS world for a long time.

      B. If Lenovo's advice is to install a different operating system, then that's an extremely poor job of setting up the laptop to run what it's supposed to run. PERIOD! So don't attack me, because I'm trying to help my sister with a miserable experience.
    • dpmcalli, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Jesus, I worked for tech support for a large OEM and hated when people like you phoned up to complain about a product the just bought when there's nothing wrong with it. No we're not going to give you a free copy of XP, no I dont care that you hate Vista, if you hated it so much, why even buy it (could could have at least factored the cost of an XP licence into your purchase if you where dead set on using it) - now get off my line!!
      • statmobile, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1First of all, don't judge me as if you know how I treat people. I treated the tech support guy with complete respect, and emphasized the fact that I know it's not his fault. But your response just shows you don't even care to listen to your customer. Vista Home Premium was the RECOMMENDED operating system, so what the ***** am I supposed to do? Would I have a right to be upset with Apple if I bought a MacBook only to find out that OS X doesn't run on it, but the tech support guy told me to install XP instead? Take your complaints of previous jobs elsewhere unless you have something valuable to give. I've been treated like crap in previous jobs as well, but that has nothing to do with what I'm saying here.

        And how the hell would I know if I hated Vista so much until I tried it, and as is clear by all the attacks I keep getting. It's clear that it works very well for some people, but not on this machine, and that's all that matters.
    • sporad1c, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1Step one: pirate XP (www.thepiratebay.org or www.demonoid.com)
      Step two: Install XP.
      Step three: Get xp drivers for hardware.
      Step four: Enjoy!
    • dig1x, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0This older Toshiba with 2GB Ram and a T2500 Core Duo runs Vista impecibly. I couldnt be happier really. Rock solid (best OS I've ever had frankly). Perhaps a BKAC problem?
      • statmobile, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1The real question I would like to know from you is, do you have a dedicated graphics unit like NVIDIA or ATI? If you're also on the Intel graphics chipset, then it must be the "utilities" that lenovo put on it.
    • jasmus, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1I recently gave advice to a freind who just wanted an internet / email / photo storage laptop. Becuase getting vista is almost unavoidable now, and they were very keen on the cheepest laptop possible, I suggested getting 2Gb of ram. I was very suprised at the $500 (au) compaq machine running Vista Home basic with 2Gb of RAM. It ram Vista great, everything was speedy, and I didn't even have to uninstall loads of trial-ware. So, when it came time for me to get a laptop (two days ago), I bought myself a macbook....

      what...
  • kurtwinter, on 04/27/2008, -11/+18Vista is so bad, its the reason we are migrating to OS X as well. The added cost of Mac hardware is tiny compared with the licensing of MS software. $199 for 5 copies of OS X. $99 for 5 copies of iWork. $199 for 1 copy of PowerPoint. $150 for 1 copy of XP Pro. There is no good reason to stay on Windows. That and the support options from Dell and Toshiba just plain suck. With an Apple warranty, you can go anywhere there's an Apple store and get support from people who actually may know something.
    • petard, on 04/27/2008, -9/+9The computer includes an OS X license, any OS X "upgrade" you buy is just a service pack they charge money for.
      • ExSlashdotter, on 04/27/2008, -2/+410.4 to 10.5 is much better upgrade than XP to Vista. Time Machine and QuickLook *alone* are worth the upgrade price, especially for a FULL 64-bit OS.

        'Service Pack', my ass...
        • dig1x, on 04/28/2008, -2/+1You clearly know nothing of which you speak.

          OSX is to Mac OS 9 is as Vista is to 2K/XP. 10.5 is to OSX as SP1 is to Vista.

          The difference between 10.x service packs is that Apple bundles program-updates into its OS maintenance packages, with Windows, applications are maintained and upgraded independant of the OS. For instance, the Messenger team updates their app without timing its release to a SP.

          You're confused.
        • Karmavs, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Mac OS 9 shares almost nothing in common with Mac OS X, everything from the kernal to the GUI had a massive overhaul.
          Windows 2000 or XP to Vista . . . not so much.

          You're confused
    • aliguana, on 04/27/2008, -5/+3"No good reason to stay with Windows". I agree. However, try installing anything other than Windows on your PC. Linux? Yeah, but it's going to need some hacking. OSX? same.
      • earthforce1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Going to need some hacking? Is clicking on the install icon now super l33t hacking?
        With most modern Linux distros, you don't need even need separate driver disks. Everything you need will be downloaded from the online package manager and installed for you. It is only if you are one of the few unlucky ones with unsupported hardware that you may need post install hacking. But with new releases, these numbers grow fewer and fewer.
    • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -7/+4People are migrating to OSX because they can tolerate an idiot-friendly OS which cannot be modified.
      Not for me.
      My copy of XP is heavily modified, tweaked, and cracked. It behaves like an OS should, which is even more than I can say for standard XP pro.
      Is MS really wants to make a successful OS, I got some pointers for them; Drop the idiot-friendly crap, remove "security center", don't warn a user every time they decide to change a setting...
      MS is becoming Mac... I may have to make the switch to Linux, again.
      • badtz, on 04/27/2008, -2/+5are you serious? unix not hackable?
      • ZellD, on 04/27/2008, -1/+4If you are serious about "modifying, tweaking, and cracking" I think OS X is a much better choice than Windows. Have you ever used terminal?

        Ask me to do anything server related and I'll be booting up my OS X partition.
  • lupydupy, on 04/27/2008, -9/+9Two weeks ago I ordered a new Dell and I specifically ordered it with XP home Pro on it. the last laptop I bought from Dell shipped with Vista and right out of the box it locked up and "grey screened". I ended up wiping the hard drive and reloading it with XP. Vista is Junk and thats all the way it is.
    http://www.anotools.cq.bz
    • petard, on 04/27/2008, -1/+7You should have wiped the drive and reloaded it with a CLEAN VISTA INSTALL. You idiots realize you have to do this with XP, but you dont realize you have to do it with Vista, too! If you clean install Vista, it will run great. If you leave the OEM bloatware ***** that the computer comes with, BOTH XP and Vista will run like CRAP you idiots!
    • dig1x, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0That's funny, i've put Vista on at least half a dozen friend-and-family boxes now. We have three machines in the home, and I've not seen Vista crash *once*. Anywhere. On any of them.

      Somehow I doubt that the QA people @ Dell didnt test the image (the same image they'd have put on thousands of machines) and didnt notice that it "Crashed on first run"....

      Somehow I doubt your little fable.
    • dig1x, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0Nice spam.
  • BugBBQ, on 04/27/2008, -3/+9Ubuntu? OSX? Amiga OS? MSDOS? CP/M....? Hell, I like to run bare-metal... just an assembler ... make-up code as I need it.
    • minitrollster, on 04/27/2008, -2/+6O RLY? I use logic gates and make up circuits as I need it.
    • etx313, on 04/27/2008, -1/+4Yeah my computer is just a bunch on transistors on the wall, I wire them up manually to suit my needs. And yeah, my wall runs Vista.
    • Syphon8, on 04/27/2008, -2/+6Real programmers use butterflies.
    • sporad1c, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5I have a mouse on a wheel in mine, and when i want extra speed I just let the cat paw at the case. "overclocking"
  • cadmiumpaint, on 04/27/2008, -3/+3so i'm curious how this will play out. People like XP cause its stable and it works....but its also old and becomming outdated right? What happens when new software or hardware requires vista?
    • buddypriefert, on 04/27/2008, -5/+0By that time MS will release the next OS version and Vista will be leapfrogged and fade away to be seen only in marketing history books.
    • tesloz, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2Try other OS's. There are plentiful in the PC world.
    • neko, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Well, they'll learn that the "great driver support" they loved in XP didn't actually have anything to do with XP, for one.
  • marx2k, on 04/27/2008, -6/+9Ahh microsoft! A poor answer to the question no one asked
  • johnnyfistfight, on 04/27/2008, -7/+8I'm sticking with microsoft. When I feel the urge to start gulping down gallons of Starbucks, wearing sunglasses atop my head, being tethered to a bottles of water
    • WillisDickfit, on 04/27/2008, -5/+18Did your Vista machine die on you before you could finish your comment?
      • johnnyfistfight, on 04/27/2008, -0/+8lol! yes it did. well then maybe it is time to buy an apple.
      • ep53, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2I prefer pears.
    • atticus8, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6You are finishing a comment. Allow or deny?
  • chris1012, on 04/27/2008, -3/+10is it me or does this article kind of jump from one bridge to another? Gizmodo thinks that because Vista allows people to downgrade and use their license on XP, all of a sudden it means that Microsoft purposely did that to pad Vista sales? Gizmodo is *****.

    *Edit* I see it's from PC world, either way, both are *****.. if PC writes that kind of crap then they should hire new journalists or wtv u want to call the ppl writing these articles. It's just a bunch of BS, thanks for the quote from dell but theres no proof of microsoft "padding" vista sales/numbers.
    • ZellD, on 04/27/2008, -0/+0Well put another way... why do they allow people to downgrade their license? They'd much rather have a sale for Vista then a sale for XP even though people still want XP. Same for Office and other programs that they force on people. It looks much better for accounting purposes.
      • HolyChimp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2They allow people to dongrade because people have bitched about not being able to use XP because they fear learning anything new.
      • cquinnd, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1Contratural obligations with companies that still need to deploy XP to fit an internal service lifecycle.
  • Planets, on 04/27/2008, -4/+7Are you guys seriously that desperate for XP? =P
  • buddypriefert, on 04/27/2008, -4/+4I knew there would be a place of employment for the former Enron bookkeepers.
  • BugBBQ, on 04/27/2008, -4/+5I don't know... I used to run Ubuntu... but I like Vista.... perhaps I just like the underdog... hell, I used to use OS/2 and owned an Amiga. :-)
    • silkysaul, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1"hell, I used to use OS/2 and owned an Amiga. :-)"

      Do you want a cookie? =P
  • edelay, on 04/27/2008, -3/+14I personally think this is brilliant. Microsoft has managed to frame the debate as XP vs Vista instead of Vista vs OSX or Vista vs Linux. They are making your guys argue over which two versions of their product is better.
    • aliguana, on 04/27/2008, -2/+6don't worry, the fanboys will get OSX into the story somewhere
    • realn0whereman, on 04/27/2008, -6/+6That's because its understood that osx is superior, and linux is better in a different way. not as user friendly. the only reason im still in xp is because i rather trade stability for ease of use than the other way around. I'm getting a mac soon.
      • monkeysaurus, on 04/27/2008, -2/+6OSX is user-friendly until you try to do something that Apple thinks you shouldn't be doing.
        • HolyChimp, on 04/27/2008, -1/+4Something like what? Apart from the obvious installing it on third party hardware, which I'd love to do, what does Apple stop you from doing?
  • mlvassallo, on 04/27/2008, -7/+11I'm not having an issue with Vista... I must be doing it wrong.
    • CCmachined, on 04/27/2008, -6/+6you never tried to run a game or program that came out before 2007? *gasp*
      I even installed some pro golf game with "07" in the title, and it still didnt work out the box on vista!
      • Syphon8, on 04/27/2008, -3/+5StarCraft works out of the box. You're doing something wrong.
      • Amiga500, on 04/27/2008, -4/+3You don't just fail at using computers, you fail at life overall.
      • brianara3, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0... running office 2003, all my :source games (including all my orig. half life ones), rebirth and reason 2.5 (old), and several other games from pre 2007 without problems.
    • ExSlashdotter, on 04/27/2008, -1/+4"i must be doing it wrong"

      No, you're just the average Best Buy-shopping consumer who really doesnt know the difference.
      • mlvassallo, on 04/29/2008, -0/+1No, like you I am an "ex-slashdotter" and a system administrator for a large hospital system who decided to install vista and try it out for himself, and now it is the main PC I use when I am out of the office. Sorry to disappoint.
    • thunderforce, on 04/28/2008, -0/+0that reminded me of a tagline from years ago.. (BBS times)
      I have windows for a year now WITHOUT problems..... I should INSTALL it someday :)
  • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -12/+10Microsoft is failing hard lately.
    Vista is an attempt to copy the worst OS ever, Mac. It should be abandoned immediately, and replaced with an OS that isn't focused on being idiot-friendly.
    If I can't modify an OS, I'm not going to even consider using it. When I purchased a new laptop, I spent 1 week on vista before installing a VLK copy of XP.

    Come on, MS, you can't even turn off security-center in vista, that service is USELESS to begin with, stop filling your OS with idiot friendly *****.
    • nevermind13, on 04/27/2008, -2/+9Sure you can. Type services.msc in a run box and disable the Security Center.
      Granted you might think this is too difficult, but I personally think only a person who knows a little bit about the services should be able to disable them.
      Back to the Vista FUD
      • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -6/+3NO, it gives you a ***** NAG SCREEN every time you boot if you do this, unlike XP.
        • nevermind13, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6Yes, then you open Security center. Click change the way Security center notifies me. Then hit don't notify me. Guess that would take a week to figure out. Anyway, relax, if you don't like Vista, don't use it, but don't spread lies about it.
        • Rapter09, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1"Bossed."
    • jwoulf, on 04/27/2008, -5/+1.
  • MBHockey, on 04/27/2008, -2/+8Can you submitters please learn the difference between "it's" and "its". It makes Digg look like a bunch of illiterate morons when you continually don't know the difference.
    • badtz, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2and don't forget "you're" and "your" ... :X
    • 33PercentGod, on 04/27/2008, -2/+4I'm sorry,I thought I was on digg and not the spelling bee practice website. If you can understand the point they're trying to get across then that's all that matters,so quit being such an anal ***** and get over it.
      • Karmavs, on 04/28/2008, -0/+3I’m sorry, I was trying to read your comment, but I’m stuck. You say ‘I’m sorry,’ and then another character (It looks like a vertical line) without any space after the comma. I really want to understand whatever point it is that you’re trying to get across, but it’s incomprehensible to me.
        • darlingt, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1OK, two can play at this game. You have a left parenthesis followed by the same vertical line when you should have a lowercase i. And when you quote somebody, you should use double quotes (") on either side of the quote. If part of the quote is truncated, end with an ellipsis (. . .). Thank you, and have a nice day.
          • Karmavs, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1Skitt’s law strikes again. I’ll concede the first error, but the second is a style issue, and on the third, I disagree. Ellipses aren't necessary when the end of a quote coincides with a natural break in the source, which could be signified by a full stop, a comma, a semicolon, etc.

            Also, if I wish to be a true pedant, I can go through the four errors in your passage. But I don't; so I won't.
      • wacomwacoff, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1Do you always swear at people when they point out grammar errors in other people's writing? Jesus. Lay off the espresso.
    • darlingt, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1Can you please learn that when you ask a question, you need to end it with a question mark instead of a period? It's very annoying.
  • Bender1001, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Lets be honest here though, we know that mom and pop that are buying a new computer know nothing of the differences between Vista and XP and are only thinking XP is better because their friends said so, and then only because their friends said so...it's the blind leading the blind. Normal users don't know why they don't like Vista, they just think that's the way it is.
    • ZellD, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1My roommate didn't like Vista because he bought a new computer only to find it running worse than the one he had used previously. When he shut it down it would spend 5 minutes logging out. Of course it's because he bought some cheap laptop barely capable of supporting Vista and I don't experience those problems on my machine. The thing is, that mom and pop expect to buy the cheapest machine and have it run better than their old one... and why shouldn't they? It used to be that computers got faster.
    • Bender1001, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1I agree, cheapo machines will lead to a bad experience on