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'Don't listen to Bill Gates. The open-source movement isn't communism.'

slate.com — "This month, SAP's Shai Agassi referred to open-source software as "intellectual property socialism." In January, Bill Gates suggested that free-software developers are communists. A few years earlier, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer called the open-source operating system Linux "a cancer."

Bury

Albertpacino 2 years 227 days ago, made popular 2 years 227 days ago

1275 diggs
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penedo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Not much new. Only benefit from it is that maybe it explains some geeky issues to an audience which otherwise isn't exposed to them.

One point I MISS in this article is that it doesn't counter the claims that "OSS is Socialism" with a simple "Even if it is - so?". I mean it feels like the author jumps up and down a lot on "yay! we are socialist" but doesn't explain the simple fact that if Joe Programmer wants to get some help developing something that he'll never get money to sell then there is an infrastructure and crowd to get this help to him (I'm speaking from personal experience here).

Ah well, I'll just digg it....
.Steven, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2var_dump("Microsoft" == "*****");
ecantona, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0the oss movement is, in some senses socialist.
unfortunately, 'socialism' is not really a very helpful term:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
{btw, these text boxes dont accept html tags, which sucks}
AhronZombi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2comunism socialism democracy its all the same, any form of government holds us back
sjors, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Ballmer did NOT say linux is a caner, he actually said that the license governing Linux makes the software a "cancer". Its so hard to read for some linux zealots.
Azmodan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Capitalism and communism are models meant to manage scarcity. It doesn't work in an economy where the raw material is basically free.
Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How long before that writer is struck from Slate? If I remember correctly, Slate is owned by MSN.
Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0. . . ah, but you know the criticism is sincere if it comes from within Microsoft. Like MSN disavowing IE for Mac.
Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The link, incase anyone wonders: http://cultofmac.com/index.php/2005/11/20/microsoft_disavows_own_software
DaviDK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The quote goes "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches".
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/02/ballmer_linux_is_a_cancer/

Yes, he was talking about the viral properties of the GPL, but that is only negative from Microsoft's perspective, as it is the one thing they can't bully or buy.

How can they criticize a benign license, when they have such an aggressive stance protecting their own intellectual property?
mancat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Linux itself may not be "communist" but the GPL and RMS sure are.
vermin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1lol.. how is a software license communist.
ralphmalph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Azmodan is absolutely right. Socialism as a failed system and thus one to steer clear of, only exists when scarcity has an effect on basic human nature. The digital world offers completely different context, and in this light this so called "communism" should be embraced - it lifts us all up. Microsuck is clearly frightened. But let them continue with their frightened propaganda - I'm invested in Google - the more Microsuck refuses to adapt and reform, the less innovation we will see from them and they will soon go the way of the dinosaurs. Good riddance.
sdaf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What's up with this fear for communism? I don't get it :/ (and no, I'm not a communist, socialist, or anything left-oriented)
thisnameisfake, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Gates just wants to compare it to Communism because Communism does not work in it's pure form. The only Communism that works is Chinese Communism. However, that isn't really Communism. It's more like a Fascist State.
ralphmalph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1um ... china isn't anything like a fascist state. it's a totalitarian state. there's a rather big difference.
Parthurs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why would anyone listen to Gates? You know he has a one sided point of view.
Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Gates is behind the times; "________ is communist" is so last-century. Now, if he had said "Linux is Islamist". . .

. . . but I don't think you can make a good case for Linux or GPL being Islamist.
thez, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Bill Gates is just mad because he can't rake all the money in for himself. The free software movement is the movement of the future. Screw Bill Gates and his stupid monopolistic schemes.
MikeEnIke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Good Read.

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http://rewardhits.com/index.php?hit=3709
senechale, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Is Bill Gates a communist because he is sharing part of its money through Gates Fundation?
deadlychicken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"...no popular alternative to Microsoft Word has emerged, either."

OpenOfficeSunOffice don't count?
deadlychicken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0^^OpenOffice\SunOffice
VegasNitro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Keep on open-sourcing comrades!
PantherX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So what if it is Communist? Social Security is Communist. BFD
heinousjay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"OpenOfficeSunOffice don't count?"

The word popular might not mean what you think it means.
jrc1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Geeks of the world, unite!
Mister.Joshua, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Open source software in itself isn't Communism, but large elements of the open source movement are. Read some of the threads here about Google Print. Some of those people are crazy.
Bindibadgi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Surely everyone's parents told them sharing and working together is good, right? People work together in teams at work to produce a product. So what if that product is free? How is that communism? By that argument - every workplace on the planet is communist.
BrianS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Open source is indeed a cancer. It is a cancer that is eating up Microsoft's profits.
So from their perspective it is the worst kind of cancer.

From where I sit, I'll cheer it on!
TRutch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Power to the Proletariat!
Veretax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Open source is good for some things, but it isn't the end all be all of software development. In fact I would argue that Open Source will not be a majority factor in software development until the general population is sufficiently educated so as to contribute or take part of the ever growing vault of open source applications.
microstuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Stupid gates
microstuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1^
Richest being in the known universe
hapy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've read the interviews and it's incredible how some people love to twist what's said. Why bother granting interviews when knuckleheads are going to take things out of context? It's ridiculous.
BillGates, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Communism is a form of government. What does it have to do with any operating system?
TimmyK., on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In theory Communism works. In theory...

Anyways I don't like that people in the US think that we live in a capitalist society. In no way or form was capitalism ever meant to be the most important aspect of our society. Democracy (or rather a representative republic as we truly are) does not mean that there has to be unchecked capitalism. Until the 1870's corporations were highly regulated by the government so that they couldn't take advantage of the citizens and infringe on their rights and freedoms. They understood that if you allowed corporations to become too large and powerful they would have the means to corrupt the system and representatives that were supposed to be watching out for the citizenry. Gee how surprising that they were right. The worst thing that ever happened to this country was when they started treating corporate rights as equal to those of the citizens of the nation. Watch the documentry "The Corporation" for a quick and easy to understand background on the history of Corporate America and it's origins. It's actually scary.
rohcky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4^^ Completely agree. This country has turned from "for the people, by the people" to "for the rich and only the rich". The government protects the rights of corporations because it's the corps that line their pockets, not the citizens. Where's Thomas Jefferson when we need him.
depakote, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"Communism looks good on paper"

You know what.

"Open source looks good on paper".

Hey, want my philosophy about open souce?

"Take and never give"

Open Source programs have swarmed into the grubby mits of 15 year old zealots with have NOTHING to contribute to the cause other than annoying people with their persistance and bigotry.

I also don't like the idea that you people are just saying "***** capitalism".

In business, you win, or you lose. If you don't like what this nation was founded upon (free enterprise), then GTFO. One less annoying hypocrite to listen to.
octothorpe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Slate isn't owned by MS anymore, they sold it to the Washington Post.
Coffee33, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I still like Bill Gates and MS...without him where would we all be? On a damn Mac! :(
http://www.geek2us.net
Coffee
nfotxn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Socialism and communism works well and still exists in all our lives. It's easy to forget, or not be told, that there is a scarcity of lots of things in our modern world. There's a scarcity of cures for life threatening diseases as simple as diabetes or as bad as cancer. There is a scarcity of the people we need to provide those treatments. There's a coming scarcity of oil that's already taking effect. The space on roads for cars is scarce resulting in grid locks in big cities.

The irony here is that in America especially people think they're the one that'll be chosen to rise above all this. They're gonna make their billions and afford private jets and doctors and never worry again. Guess what? That's not bloody likely.

There are no communists hiding under your bed. But socialism is a real system with real benefits in certain situations. The cold war is over guys, you can put away the nationalistic jingo and look at socialism more objectively.
Magreger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If only more less tech savvy people figured out that Microsoft isn't half as innovative as people think they are. They got a lucky card back in the day. They're still trying to figure out how to do it differently. Personally, I don't think the move to a new fancy GUI is the right move. I want SECURITY! STABILITY! and FUNCTIONALITY! Vista better not just look pretty.
troydoogle7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If open source is communism, I will say that M$ software is facism... you will use our software or else..... Apple is politcal equivalent of Tony Blair, appeals to a small minority who bankroll it, looks good but doesn't always deliver
rohcky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Not sure where the others stand, but I for one am not preaching Communism. What I am trying to bring to awareness is the danger of unchecked Capitalism. This country has drifted so far in that direction that the people are lost among the money grabbing. We have corps that send jobs abroad to fill their pockets while their own countrymen starve to death in poverty.

I'm sick and tired of people who mistaken blind devotion with patriotism. This country was founded on dissent; and it is our DUTY as citizens of the United States to question the moral status of our government. If you fail to realize that, then maybe you should be the one to "GTFO".
orangetiki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I don't think the windows OS is a trade secret anymore. Esp if there's the ammount of viruses and such out there. Obv. People know enough of the code to do so. And honestly, there hasn't been much change since 2000. So what code are they trying to protect?
moisie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4For a start "Socialism" isn't directly equatable to Communism. Secondly Socialism isn't inherently bad, it has a lot of admirable qualities or ideals. You could probably argue that open source software embodies the "good" aspects of socialism out into good practise - of course socialism doesn't really apply to software or similar since it's an ideology related more to society as a whole.

Calling it Intellectual Property Socialism is meant to somehow validate the application of the term in a manner which isn't really applicable, however it's basically just an excuse for scare-mongering by playing on peoples prejudice of communism and all the "bad" things that came with it.

Capitalism in theory has some bad points, Socialism in theory has some great points. It's just - so far been shown that in practise Socialism and any derivatives are posssibly more corruptable. The accusation that Bush's government is for the rich and by the rich shows (if true) that capitalism is just as susceptible to corruption. It's a very complex situation with no ideal solution - hence why people are still studying the entire political system in great detail and endlessly debating it.

Ultimately open source may not be the wonder it's heralded as but just calling it socialist and by unwritten extension Communist and therefore wholly bad is frankly lazy.
matthewsnape, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Actually much of open source is in the greatest tradition of capitalism. Say I want to make a website and sell a service through it. I don't have a huge budget so I base it on open source. People have been doing similar things outside of computing for hundreds of years. They create a product that relies on the advice of their peers, because they can never become an expert in everything. Nowadays, that advice also include intellectual property. When Bill gates refers to capitalism, he talks about big business. But doesn't Microsoft more resemble socialism than open source? An authoritarian leadership that charges taxes (license subscriptions) for a monopolized product, protected by its size from market forces. My view of capitalism is small business, relying on experts and other small businesses to create products. Open source is a valuable component in this, and aids rather than impedes capitalism.
sud0n1m, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wrote an article six or so years ago about this issue - may be an interesting historical read: http://www.pintmaster.com/essays/marx.html
gaspero1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I find it interesting that Microsoft slams open source so openly with one hand, while embracing it at the same time. If you read the Microsoft software licenses carefully, you will find that Microsoft Exchange uses Sendmail, an open source product, and Microsoft Windows Services for Unix uses Interix, which is loaded with GPL licensed software, including gcc, bc, ci, co, cpio, csplit, dc, diff, diff3, gawk, gzip, gunzip, ident, merge, nl, rcs, rcsdiff, rcsmerge and rlog.
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'Don't listen to Bill Gates. The open-source movement isn't communism.'

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