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144 Comments
- chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -5/+54@Dark_Ice
"Instead of changing to Linux and blaming Windows for being crappy"
Not crappy. It is a fantastic, wonderful and useful OS. It is, however, insecure by design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_by_design and it is insecure by default: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_by_default
"spend a tiny bit of time to configure a secure user in XP?"
Possible, but a reasonably secure (average Joe/Grandma) user is either one with no rights, or one that takes a lot longer than "a tiny bit of time".
"I base this on the following random idea"
Basing your argument on a random idea? I noticed.
"If everyone ran UNIX systems as Root constantly it wouldn't be very secure."
No, it wouldn't be secure. In fact, with a large market share *and* all of them running as root - I would wager to guess that it would be as bad as Windows. Good thing *nix users do NOT run as root. That is Windows SINGLE BIGGEST FLAW. But it gets worse.
Microsoft has a list of programs that will simply NOT run as a limited user: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307091
This list is rather long, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. That list is Microsoft's official, rarely updated, and very censored (to make it look small) list.
In Linux, you can work, play, run all sorts of applications at users level. In Windows, you can NOT reasonably run as a limited account.
Further, Windows XP Home Edition lacks the ability to administer security policies and denies access to the Local Users and Groups utility. It does have a handy Administrator account though. But you can not give this account a password during install. So what is the default password to the most powerful account on ALL Windows XP Home machines? There is no password.
1. Install Windows XP.
2. Apply Autopatcher (if you connect to the net to update, there is a good chance you will be infected within roughly 4 to 15 minutes depending on your patch state).
3. You have at this point rebooted almost half a dozen times. Many more to come.
4. Install Antivirus. Computer is slowed a bit.
5. Install anti-spyware. Computer is slowed a bit more.
6. Install an alternate browser and mail client. We're going for security here.
7. Use Windows built-in firewall, or another software firewall, or better yet, pay $ to buy a router because software firewalls are prone to local software-based attacks and modifications.
8, 9, 10 - Install codecs, defrag, give the admin account a password, install dozens of applications to make the OS useful.
11. Pray a program, legitimate and friendly as it might be, doesn't hose the registry, or other important files because everything is running as administrator and the computer can become ***** the moment any program makes a single mistake (or intentional malice).
Windows is easy because everyone knows that you have to throw effort into configuring, securing and finally making it useful. Everyone knows how because everyone has to do it over and over again. If not for themselves, than for the average friends and family that they help.
Ubuntu:
1. Install. It is 6 months or less out of date. You are relatively patched already, and running a notoriously secure OS besides. The update is small and fast.
2. Go to UbuntuGuide and install codecs and any needed programs. Much like Windows XP, except this is just cut&paste - and it keeps itself up to date without you having to check your applications all the time to make sure you have the latest and most secure version.
3. Don't defrag. Ever. No AV slowing the system down. No anti-spyware slowing the system down.
Linux is hard to learn. But it is no harder to install, set up or use than Windows. It is just different. If you are even moderately adept at Linux, then Linux is far easier to install, configure, use and maintain than Windows.
Windows can be secure. Many of us are using Windows securely, but we *know how*. Ready to loan it to grandma for a month? Windows can be secure when a knowledgeable, informed user is behind the wheel as the only user, or actively administering the system.
Linux is fantastic in that it's limited accounts are *more limited* and more secure than even the most locked down XP account, yet it is entirely useful and easy. In this way, Linux is much more resilient against malicious software, but more importantly, and the whole point is that it is much more resilient against human error and novice use. - subliminal727, on 10/12/2007, -9/+50Ubuntu is the perfect distro for someone that computer illiterate...she bought a new computer every year because of adware ...she's not gonna be able to handle much more than ubuntu i would bet
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+42Where does it say HE bought her a new computer?
- mhuggins, on 10/12/2007, -8/+41I just installed Ubuntu about 3 hours ago, and I am incredibly impressed. I think I'm officially done with Windows.
- clawoo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+36I'd like to meet this Everyone guy. He seems like a real moron. Never stepping up with arguments for his allegations.
- GnuTzu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+36So, adware really is expensive.
I'd love to convince my relatives to give Ubuntu a try. Perhaps, I'll burn a bunch of stocking stuffers this year. - tep200377, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31i installed ubuntu on my mom and dads compuer, and they didnt see any difference, cause they only use office documents and read mail / surf the net. I havent been down there and fixed viruses any more.
- JamesWilson, on 10/12/2007, -17/+41Welcome to 2006 people. Its called Firefox, Spybot, Ad-Aware, Windows Defender. Stop running ***** from places of ill-repute.
- rowanjl, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25If moving to a new one means you don't have to reinstall the old one constantly, surely the new one is better.
- xrisnothing, on 10/12/2007, -10/+29As noble as it is to convert relatives to Linux, hell no!
I've got enough problems with my aunt asking me how to send e-mail to multiple people and my grandmother trying to send e-mails from santa from e-mail accounts she doesn't have access to.
If you're not already "the computer guy" in your family, installing linux on a relative's machine is just asking for years of stupid questions. - Stonekeeper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Do what my mate does: Dual Boot. He mainly boots into Ubuntu, but when he fancies a game, he just boots into windows.
- t0ny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17This reminds me of my boss. I went over to her house to copy stuff from her old computer to a new one for her. Her old one was running very slow. So she went out and bought a new one. Her old one was 3Ghz and the new one was 3.2Ghz
/random story - simplisticton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14"...you will always be using unfinished software..."
Now what the hell is "finished" software? Windows? IE? Office? They have bugs and get patched the same as any FLOSS package.
The internet runs on "unfinished software" like Apache, MySQL, BIND, Sendmail, NTP... - SPLASTiK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14My parents only use the computer to surf the Internet, e-mail, share photos from the digital camera and some word processing.
I moved out of town for a few years and hadn't been back home since Christmas 2004 until a few months ago. Apparently this summer my Dad got to fed up with spyware (even with Spybot and Adaware installed) that he just unplugged the computer from the wall.
When I came home I ran adaware and it had over 1000 critical pieces of Spyware on the machine and was unbearably slow.
So I downloaded Mozilla Thunderbird and transferred their mail and Outlook settings to it. Backed it up and other personal files then installed Ubuntu on their machine.
Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice. That's all they need and use and are loving being problem free. - burty89, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13@Dark_Ice:
"winamp, utorrent, Nero 7"
Whats 'odd' about any of those programs. All three are clean, and I don't see why you uninstalled them. OK, uTorrent could be used to download other unsafe programs but in itself uTorrent is a great application. Winamp & Nero on the other hand simply play/burn media, I don't see why you uninstalled them...
Also, your generalization of teenagers is terrible. I'm 17 and have been using computers since ~ age 8. My computers (both Windows & Linux) function well & if something does go wrong I fix it myself. However, I wouldn't let either of my parents anywhere near to my computers because they'd mess something up within 5 minutes. I'm not the exception to some rule as I know many others that are the same.
What should be said is that people who don't know how to use a computer break things, whilst those who do don't. - corteze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12My mom is using ubuntu, and she never used windows before that so I don't have any complains that something works differently and other thing doesn't look the same. I asked her what will she use her laptop for, and I preinstalled all apps that she might use and.... she asked me for help only couple of times during last 4 months.
Ubuntu not ready for general public? I submit that it is! - subliminal727, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Very true, it would probably be a better alternative too...but this woman needs to stop buying computers
- Rummy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I think the dual boot option is actually better for gaming. I have recently been trying this out with a stripped down version of XP. Take away all the eye candy like themes and wallpaper, the drivers you don't need, unnecessary components, etc, and you will end up freeing a significant amount of resources. I have a gaming system that's a couple of years old now, and I noticed a huge difference. Of course you could do this with just XP installed, but it would majorly suck for general use.
But I too have introduced my mother to Xubuntu on an ancient laptop that she has. As she only uses the computer for email and surfing the net, it suits her perfectly. CCleaner, Spybot and Avast are all great ways to keep Windows going, but on her hardware Xubuntu works a lot better. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@tony Wish I knew people this ignorant, 'cause I love free computers.
@Meep I don't know what kind of exotic crap hardware you have, but I've had no problems installing Ubuntu on 4 completely different machines. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Ubuntu just gets the job done in pretty much all basic (and in other cases, business) computing needs. Mom's not a gamer, so it suits her fine.
I use it for graphic design work. - pathy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14It might be an idea to educate her a little bit as well, rather than giving her Ubuntu and thinking she is immune to everything.
Linux is fine once it's set up for people that are using their computers for just browsing, and what not. (It's fine for everything else as well, just that requires a bit more knowledge of how the system works - Which I imagine this mother is lacking.)
What happens when a piece of hardware breaks? Or she wants to try something that needs Windows to run - Does she know how to run WINE, etc?
Giving people alternative OSes is fine - But please, make sure they're not technological morons first. Explain to her that her computer slowing down is something of the OS, and I'm assuming if you can install Linux, that you could fix it rather than her buying new computers repeatedly. If it's that much of a problem, create a slipstream disc that you can just put in and it will reinstall the entire OS without any effort.
Don't leave her thinking that because she's using Linux she is now immune to any computer problems at all, and can just go on as she was. - eatsushi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I installed ubuntu for my dad 2 months ago and the first thing he did was set his homepage to www.msn.com
:( - Agraek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Man, I'd be all for switching to Linux if it wasn't for the gaming factor. I mean, sure there are programs like Cedega and Wine to help you with the windows programs, but Cedega still isn't supporting many of the newer graphic hardware features like pixel shader 2.0. Maybe if I was running older hardware, I would consider running my games in pixel shader 1.4, but I just upgraded my video card to a 7900GS.
What's the point in upgrading a video card if you're not going to use all of its power?
You can be pretty damned sure though that the day 80% of the programs / games I use in windows now work pretty well under Linux, I'll be there -- as soon as I get off my ass and reformat my computer. - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The point is, Windows is a pain in the ass to maintain. You can say anything you want, if you tried any other OSes available you will know that windows is the worst. I`ve lost enough time already this morning I don`t care to elaborate, learn from your errors.
- Darkness123, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I have had experience with family members like this. I recommend what JamesWilson said it reduced the crapware nearly 100%. Now if I could get them away from click links from people on Windows Live Messenger.
- TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Even if it`s 10 times longer than a windows install(which is really not) on the long run he is buying peace of mind. When he go visits his mother, he won`t have to debug her computer or reinstall. Just a little checkup, maintaining a linux install takes so little time it`s ridiculous.
"why didn't the guy just educate his mom on how to keep a clean and tidy system?"
Yeah right, have you ever tried that? - h0dg3s, on 10/12/2007, -10/+17This article is about computers, not paperweights.
- selphishnerd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Linux is good in it's own right because it is: free, open source, portable, runs great on any hardware, secure, and just plain fun to learn/play with.
As far as your other point, I disagree. All his mother wants to do is use a computer, why worry her with all of the spyware mantainance when she doesn't need to. If Ubuntu makes the things she needs to do simple, and trouble free, then what is wrong with that? - thecoolestcow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I'd bet you that the mother read that stupid New York Times article that said to throw out your computer if it's spyware-ridden. That article made me so angry; why can't they just format the harddrive? Is there spyware in your RAM and video card too? Oh my!
Ugh. - dummersack, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12My mum don't trust Ubuntu, because one time she makes the mistake to save a text file in wrong format and she can not open it again. Since then he don't want to do important things on Ubuntu.
I don't know how often something with her Windows crashed, but one little problem an he don't like Ubuntu anymore.
One Million Problems with Windows and she still trust it. - goodbeershow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Installed edgy on an old AMD 1800+. 512ram, ATI 8500, 60 gig hd machine. It boots extremely fast and everything worked. I installed Automatix2 with a couple problems that have since been solved. I have the machine on a KVM switch with my other PC that I use for projects. It looks very promising. I get on a linux kick every couple of years or so.
JeffreyT
http://goodbeershow.com - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You really have no ideas how old people think. Do you really think they understand why their computer is going slower? It`s much easier for them to go at Best Best and whine that their computer is getting slow, etc. The salesman won`t tell them to clean the mess windows created, instead they will say they got that new computer that is so fast it won`t never slow down on them and all that ***** they do to sell overrated computer to old people. I saw that happens to my friend`s mom, she had a 1Ghz+ for surfing the web,emails and DVD, and she went to buy a new computer when windows started behaving strangely. Unfortunately most computers are bought by mostly ignorant person on the matter, even a lot of so called "windows power user" fall in that category.
- iksu, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15Is Linux ready for computer illiterates yet? No it is not. I used to run Suse and now run Ubuntu (on a 6 year old Athlon 1Ghz with 512MB RAM). Ubuntu is very easy to use but.... if you have got somebody to set it up for u with all the audio and video codecs, install flash, adobe plug-ins, and what not. It is a bit like 'American Chopper' - if you got the passion for it, you could build a very impressive, efficient Linux system. And, then your mom sees a very nice wireless keyboard on sale and decides to buy it....and finds that none of the special keys on it work. Linux is still for the enthusiast and is not fully ready for mainstream users regardless of what the geeks will tell you.
Windows is like a new car that you buy. All you have to do is choose your model, learn to drive it, fasten your seat-belt, lock the doors and drive sensibly. And, of course, you maintain your car unless you want a wheel flying off at 70mph. If you are not sensible, you end up with accidents. But, you are not expected to fiddle with the engine or install a new filter on your own. Windows works out of the box.(mostly) I also run windows 2000 professional (6 years on a PIII 1Ghz 384MB RAM) with Sygate firewall and AVG Anti-virus and never had any problems. System Mechanic is one good tool as well. (www.iolo.com)
Security is of course a major issue. And, like somebody else said...if you always are administrator on your PC, you pay the price. I cant understand y the f@"£ Microsoft have not changed this approach yet...and when they do they can patent it and get Linux to pay for IP infringement. - skymt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"And don't tell me you can emulate it with slow ass Wine"
Wine is not slow, and it is not an emulator. See myth #1 at winehq.org/site/myths - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I`m currently doing an experience with my cousin. An almost illiterate computer user, but he WANTED a computer. He found a P3 800, had windows on it, the first week he had it, he must have called at least once a day because windows bugged. I told him, "go see the guy who sold it to you, I`ve lost enough time with windows already". 2-3 days pass by, he could`nt find anyone to fix his computer, probably because all windows admin by now have enough computer to fix they don`t need one more. I told him, if you want my help, I`ll install you something else that I know works good. He has no clue at all about what is a OS, a distro, he`s still confusing ram and hard-drive. It`s been 2 weeks today his computer was installed and configured and he never called me once about a problem, he needed some hint about how to do some stuff, but no bugs!! Last time I spoke with him he had became a linux fanboy without knowing it, saying "Linux Rule" only because he wasn`t used for a computer to last more than 4 hours without crashing, people at his works trying to convince him linux is for geeks, he won`t be able to do anything... now the burden of proof is on their side...
- juraj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Every linux fanboy who buried Meep3D is a ***** moron. They need to fix the bloody hibernation already - I tried everything and it won't work, even hibernate2.
BTW I'm posting this from Firefox 2 in Ubuntu Edgy. So every fanboy who thinks I'm anti-linux can go blow a grenade in their mouth. - mercurysquad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Meep: you were using an old version of Ubuntu which couldn't even hibernate my stock dell laptop.
Install Ubuntu Edgy -- they fixed everything. Less than 1 min boot (45 sec for me), 15 sec to shutdown, and hibernate, suspend work flawlessly. - subliminal727, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Meep: True, but windows xp wasn't created before the internet. Most of it's flaws are intentional or just completely ignored. Designers at microsoft know whats wrong with it, everyone does.
Linux is obviously not a solution for every circumstance there are going to be compatibility and usability issues with it, i think most linux users are aware of the drawbacks and i think most linux companies are also aware of the drawbacks, just like microsoft. - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Why ?, really, why would you do that ? It`s like asking for trouble
- Meep3D, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Windows has problems, everyone is well aware.
Major Mistake 1: Everyone runs as root, largely because it was designed without consideration for the Internet. It just wasn't thought of when it was developed and there was no obvious reason to include sudo style facilities as why bother? Bill Gates originally thought the Internet would just be a fad, and people's malicious intent was never seriously considered.
Major Mistake 2: Allowing software to install itself. The OS should handle the install, not the software itself. Installers were a fairly new concept at the time and it never really occurred to anyone that malicious software would be a problem as most software would be bought and installed via disk/floppy. Spyware didn't exist either.
It's not really Microsoft's fault they are in the position they are in now. Windows XP simply isn't designed to do the job its currently doing and the whole raft of problems your seeing now are a result of several significant design failings, and a failure to predict the future.
Linux OTOH has a similar collection of failings, just in an entirely different department - namely usability & compatibility - as it was never designed with these things in mind.
Switching people to Linux to negate design flaws in Windows may work for specific cases and appear to be a solution, but it does nothing to improve upon the flaws in Linux that are glossed over.
FANBOYS ARE KILLING LINUX. IF YOU MOD ME DOWN READ ON...
What I am saying is true. I can go into depth on design & usability flaws on both platforms, yet doing so on Linux will get you modded down no matter how valid your points. By suppressing critical speech you are hindering, not helping, Linux. The only way flaws are going to be brought to light and fixed is if they are discussed. At the moment such discussion is taboo. Linux currently accounts for 0.3% of the desktop marketshare. I work with PC's all day long and I have nothing to do with Linux as it's simply not suitable for the tasks I want it for, for many reasons, yet these reasons will never be addressed, let alone discussed, as everyone is sticking their heads in the sand and pretending they don't exist.
Would Microsoft have cleaned up their act so much had there not been massive public attention of their flaws? If people were more critical of poorly designed software and unnecessary problems & hassles there would be less of them overall. Linux isn't a football team, it's not your mum, and you don't need to defend it no matter what, your doing more harm than good. - cr3ative, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Okay, why are you getting dug down here? You've made a very valid point, in a calm manner!
I'll never understand Linux Fans. It's great and all, I run a server with Linux on, but they can't STAND hearing about driver issues, or any criticism that sometimes is just common sense.
Rant over. - jaytheworst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We put Ubuntu on a PC for my mom and being the most computer illiterate person in the world ( she has formatted a keyboard several times without knowing it) finds Ubuntu very easy to use. We just put a big email symbol in the middle along with a big Firefox button. She says it's easier then working on windows so that is good. Overall the best free operating system I have worked with.
- hipdad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think the point here isn't really that "teens" are the problem. I know adults that go to their mothers/fathers house and install "cute" crap on their parents computers. Most older computer users want basic things to work. Email, browsing, text application and a way to view pics of their grandkids. People who install crap on a computer that isn't theirs and they don't ask if the person wants the program installed need to have any computers technology removed from within their reach for at least a year to get them to respect property that isn't theirs!
- GamingNews, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I know you're frowning, but man, is that ever funny stuff.
- damentz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I would prefer Linux Mint, there is a point to where even no mp3 decoding support on a vanilla install of Ubuntu is ridiculous. Besides, its more useful out of the box.
- mercurysquad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"how would you explain to a 50year old computer noob why the microsoft wireless photo keyboard that he saw stacked in PC World does not work on his Ubuntu machine (installed by his son)."
I would just say that the keyboard was manufactured by Microsoft and so works only with Windows -- ie. blame it on MS. >;-)
And BTW it should be possible to configure any and all special keys via the gnome keyboard shortcuts windows -- when you press a special key it detects it. Then you jut choose the command. Depends on what graphic software you will use on Ubuntu whether it supports special key shortcuts configurable via gnome keyboard shortcuts or not. - OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I often wondered how less technical people solved Windows problems (I can barely solve them myself, rarely do I manage to get Windows reinstalled on the first try when I wipe a box).
"Buy a new computer" really is the easiest solution, expensive, but easy. - studley181, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I put Fedora Core 4 on my mom's pc that I built for here about a year and a half ago, simply because it was free and not prone to viruses/spyware. She hasn't called me about a SINGLE computing problem once I showed her how to use Firefox and Email.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@MajorMauser
I, sir, use the GIMP. Your ignorance simply indicates that you are unwilling to accept that there are alternatives to your stereotypes that work and that they are a viable source of income.
I have no intention of using Photoshop as it does an excellent job for me.
Also, have you heard of blender3D? - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@pathy
Most users don`t give a ***** about that, and even if you try to educate them, they forget it in 2 minutes. They just want something that works now and will work tomorrow and "insert any linux distro" will do that plus more. -
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