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43 Comments
- SleeperZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16It is available with VMWare, but Xen is more interesting than VMWare for the following reasons:
1) vmware is a lot further off getting into the kernel than Xen.
2) Xen is free as in beer & speech.
3) Xen is a _lot_ more efficient at doing what it does than vmware.
This is like Firefox vs IE - Internet Explorer may render a web page but we all know which is the better of the two and why.
Keep up the good work Xen! - WalterDirt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14While the rest of the working world does care. Here's the reality:
You won't see any games ported until you get some solid business applications.
And since top notch productivity (notice I didn't say server) software is a rare breed on Linux, games won't be coming in full force to Linux anytime.
Yeah I'm sure you're all waiting to throw a bunch of awesome Linux software links at me and modding me down. But show me something better than Photoshop, show me some pro grade, music software, where's the dreamweavers, where's the idiot proof iDVD? where are the IDE's that will rival .NET studio? The fact is Linux doesn't have any outstanding products for the desktop. Again, the server market is a different story.
In the professional arena I don't see much appeal for Linux ... at this point.
I'm not a MS fan boy, nor Apple, on my desk I have MS, Apple, and Ubuntu.
P.S. I'd love to be proven wrong about the software. (IT and uber geeks need not apply, we know Linux fits your bill already) - combatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I don't care about any virtualization software until I can run my 3d games at full speed. As soon as that happens, we'll see a mass migration to Linux, including myself and everybody I know.
- peace, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11From what I heard, Xen seems to be a lot faster than VMware.
- ISVDamocles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+71) http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/ Xine
2) http://www.xmms.org/ XMMS http://www.gnome.org/projects/rhythmbox/ Rhythmbox http://amarok.kde.org/ amaroK - scarz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Misleading title. Xen doesn't allow you to run your windows apps on linux. It simply allows you to have a virtual machine of XP running in tandem with Linux.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You may be switching sooner than you think.. The whole point of hardware virtualization is to offer almost realtime speeds to the guest operating systems.
- ianam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You run XP on Xen running under Linux. Therefore XP is running under Linux.
- rpdillon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5No you don't. Xen runs as closer to the hardware than anything. You then run everything else on top of Xen (Linux, XP). While Linux may be your host0 operating system, that doesn't mean that XP is running on Linux.
Again, the architecture of Xen is substantially different than that of other solutions like VMWare. - gnuman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The reality of Linux apps running faster is that Linux loves RAM. If you notice when you constantly right click anywhere on a desktop to bring up the menu in Linux, the menu shows up instantaneously, while if you'd do the same thing in Windows XP, the menu comes up much slower. Windows XP is not efficient and uses Virtual Memory even if you had 2GB of ram on your system.
- in4mation, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Interesting FAQ's from the XenSource:
Q: What operating systems are supported by Xen?
A: Currently Xen supports Linux 2.4, 2.6, and NetBSD 2.0. XenSource demonstrated Windows XP running on Xen at the Intel Developer Forum (IDF) in August 2005, and will deliver a commercial support offering for this in early 2006.
Q: What are the technological differences between Xen and other virtualization products?
A: Xen is designed to function more like the mainframe partitioning systems found on multi million dollar systems from vendors like IBM and less like the pseudo-separated systems that are available today from several other vendors such as VServer and UML. VMWare would be the closest analog to what Xen does. The main difference is that operating systems running on Xen know they're running in a virtual server, and not on the raw iron. - jonnyeh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Amarok rulez!! Since I've started using it, I never want to go back to windows, it's that killer!
- Haplo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yup: http://johnbokma.com/vmware-player/create-virtual-machines.html
Step-by-step tutorial for running XP on XP and Ubuntu on XP, and plenty of useful comments by users for various other set ups. - Xsecrets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3well you really should specify what vmware product, because they have some products that act very similar to Xen.
- Monguisine, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Good article, but this is already possible with VMWare - I use Linux as my main OS with Windows XP on VMWare allowing me to run Adobe apps. Will be interesting to see where Xen is headed though.
- somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"I know a lot of open source zealots love to say how it sucks because they have to pay for it, but Cedega is a great piece of software that is worth paying for."
Paying for software isn't the reason people don't like it- it's the fact that it rides the back of the WINE project (from before it changed the licence to GPL) without giving anything back. Nothing illegal about it, but it's unpleasant to see someone profiting from someone else's generosity in such a way. - ungamedplayer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The big deal is that you'll be able to use the native OS drivers to access hardware. So now you can use accelerated drivers to run your windows games in emulation.
I can smell Apple hitting up on this any day now. - Voodooengine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The point of VMWARE and such is to Virtualize, of course you will get some slower speeds, then if you had run it as your native OS. Anyways i think ill stick with VMware for some time.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4does this work with games?
- pongx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As a gamer and sometimes a linux user, I can tell you that gaming in Linux isn't all wine and roses, but it's not all bad either. A brilliant piece of software called Cedega does a great job of running Direct X games often times without a hitch. A few years ago it wasn't that great, but now it's advanced to the point where it plays most Windows games at extremely playable speeds and it supports a wide library of games. It seems like a lot of the new PC games are supported within a month or two (which is a lot faster than having the game "ported"). I know a lot of open source zealots love to say how it sucks because they have to pay for it, but Cedega is a great piece of software that is worth paying for.
- ZachPruckowski, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3So wait, someone could install this on an iMac Core Duo, then run XP virtualized? Has anyone tried it yet?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have both VMware and Xen run in a VM with 1GB of 2GB system RAM dedicated to it. Neither is as fast as windows native. 2/3 as fast maybe, but not faster.
If you just think about that for a moment, you will realize it would be extremely difficult to achieve faster performance that just installing windows on a box normally. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5To be honest there really isn't much of a speed hit with VMware, it's more of a memory issue.
- Prometheus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I wanna run XP on xen on SuSE on VMWare on ubuntu on a toaster. Can I do that with this new fangled multi-core doohickey?
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Did you actually read the article? Hardware virtualization is done by your CPU, not VMWARE. It's much, much faster. The only real issue is memory usage and memory is cheap.
- theschles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How does this compare to coLinux (http://www.colinux.org)
- marshlaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I found the performance comparison charts very interesting (also supposedly independently verified):
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/performance.html
The Xen FAQ says that windows integration is being worked on in Xen 3.0... does anyone know any more information about this? - exhuma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As pongx said. Cedega does a great jobs. I literally played around with it a bit and was surprised by the performance. I say surprised as I used older versions of winex (the former name of cedega) and it did by far not support as many games as cedega does nor did I have any success running anything on it ;)
But with the newer versions of cedega this changed quite drastically. I experienced even better performance with cedega than running the game natively on windows! Although the only place this was, was with Jedi Knight 3. A fairly old bone. Needless to say I was impressed. I suppose this was because of all the ad-/spy-/mal-ware I must have had running on windows at that time ;)
As of the price of Cedega. I am not as well informed as I once was *cough*cough*... But I think if you get the code and compile it yourself, cedega is completely free. And compiling yourself might sound unnecessarily complex but any linux-afficionado will tell you it's as easy as installing a windows program. ;]
Well. I think that's enough off-topicness for me. - WanderLustMan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1dude, amarok is an amazing application, wish they ported it to windows, or someone should, such great funcionality all built-in
- Lobster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I run my OS from CD, so the HD is free to run Windows or Linux. In fact the whole OS and programs can be run in memory. The operating system could be available on the motherboard without too much effort . . .
http://puppylinux.org/ - tzahi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Xen would not run windows well even with virtualization because of I/O problems, the CPU is only half the story. I heard though that intel is planning on releasing something called vt-d on 2007 that allow for better I/O assignments for the virtualized machine. Hopefully it would be the solution. For example, you won't be able to get good I/O throughtput for your ethernet card on windows on xen or video cards etc...
- eruin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Banshee ( http://banshee-project.org/ ) - the killall music player
MPlayer and Totem for video - zachtib, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3yes, but you'll have to download the toaster.iso version of ubuntu
- blessmurk, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Did You See XEN FAQ
here it is
Question : In DomU, how can I use 3D graphics?
In a para-virtualized domain, you could give access to the graphics card by hiding the device from Dom0 and giving the DomU of choice access to this card. [Sorry, I don't know more details than this - maybe someone else can fill in more here. --Mats Petersson]
The frequently asked question comes from people who want to use Windows in a HVM domain to play games or run high-end 3D graphics applications, and the answer here is "Not yet". The problem here is that the OS isn't loaded directly at address zero when it is a guest-OS (DomU), so we're lying to the OS about it's location (because most OS's don't quite understand the concept of memory that doesn't actually start at address zero). So, the OS thinks that it's been loaded at an address of, say, 0..256MB, but in reality it's been loaded at 256MB..512MB. When it then talks to the graphics cards, it will give the graphics card a physical address of somewhere between 0..256MB, which of course doesn't work for the graphics card - as it should really be reading somewhere between 256MB..512MB. So what can we do about it? There are a number of different solutions that could work:
1. Rewrite the graphics driver so that it understands Xen. Possible, but hard work, even if you have easy access to the source-code. Most graphics chip manufacturers do not have open-source drivers.
2. Use some alternative way to access the desktop, such as Remote Desktop. This doesn't necessarily work for real high-end apps or games, but it's probably better than the graphics card emulation in HVM.
3. Wait for hardware and software to support IOMMU. An IOMMU is a device that will support mapping memory addresses for a domian to some different address when that domain's hardware is being used. There is currently (high-end) server hardware that support this, but no desktop machines. Expect this to change in the future, but not very soon. - TonyMurray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Um, he meant much faster than software virtualization, not faster than with no vm. Silly.
- clldavid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm more interested in the future hardware support of vitualisation. Then, whether it's Xen or VM, we'll see humongous improvements in performance.
- tylerni7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Did you see the end of the article? Quad-core chips next year? Sweet...
- Haplo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Yeah, it would be cool but impossible if you could install XP, then run a VM with XP, and it goes faster. Makes you wonder what happens if you run a VM in XP in a VM.
- ipinkus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0too bad you're lying... unless you have intel chips with virtualization technology, or binary patches developed by the xen project, you don't have windows xp running under xen. rtfa
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0People, if you are going to run 2 OS's through virtualization, use the OS with the better hardware support and SMP scheduler as the host. I have hardware that Linux doesnt even have drivers for (surprise), but that Linux can use as a host under XP via VMWare. Xen has a long ways to go before its as usable as VMWare.
- mib1969, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0FYI. As much as Xen tries, it will never have the robustness or stability of VMware. VMware has been building virtualization technology for over 8 years.
As for checking out various Linux distros, go to http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/. Not only are there pre-build VMs with Ubuntu, RedHat, Fedora, Debian, FreeBSD and SUSE (among others), but there are also a bunch of killer partner and community virtual appliances (firewalls, mail servers, IP telephony apps, etc.).
Additionally, VMware is putting its money where its mouth is and providing a nice incentive for people to build virtual appliances: http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/challenge/ - 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2This should be cool to try out. I have no idea how well it'll work though. VLC for Linux really sucks so it'd be nice to get something on there like Winamp. Of course this also means no more cruising around as root because the virii out there will actually be able to run on Linux now. If they don't, that'd be a cool project. I would love to see the looks on the faces of all the smug Linux users when their OS tanked for a reason other than just being a Linux variant.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -36/+5You misspelled "OS X".
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