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69 Comments
- dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11The headline for this is misleading. It beat Windows on SOME tests, but to say it "beats Windows in benchmarks," encompasses ALL of the tests, making it sound like Wine won in the majority of benchmarks, which is simply not the case.
No digg, for that fact alone. Let's start submitting like editors, not like keyboard-pounding high-school script monkeys. - chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Pretty amazing that it even beats windows in becnhmarks at all. Digg++ awesome.
- Vektuz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Another way to spin this would be "Wine slower than windows in almost all benchmarks"
- Vektuz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4to add more:
Wine is slower in the more modern 3dmarks, and in the gl extreme marks, tends to be slower where it counts the MOST: the minimum framerates.
Why are the minimum framerates so important? Because it doesnt matter that you're getting 3000 frames a second instead of 2000 frames a second, but in a shooter, if you get into a firefight, it DOES matter whether your framerate drops down to 20 or 50 (minimum) even if the rest of the game you're at 3000 - CaptHappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4the only 3dmark test that wine really won was an extremely old version, and they didn't even try the newest version of 3dmarks
- PHig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3it won in less than half the tests!
- deathpasser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The headline for this is misleading. It beat Windows on SOME tests, but to say it "beats Windows in benchmarks," encompasses ALL of the tests, making it sound like Wine won in the majority of benchmarks, which is simply not the case."
No, the title says that it beats Windows in Benchmarks, it doesn't suggest ALL. Hell, it even says ONLY IN 69 on the description. You'd have to be retarded to be misled this easily. The fact that Wine is beating Windows in even over 10 of them is pretty amazing in and of itself. - aptiva, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4to the flamers:
This is incredibly good work. The wine team is doing total guesswork, implementing the windows apis from nothing but developer documentation and reverse engineering. It's an immense task (and no it hasn't taken 20 years.. more like 17 :) and keep in mind that in that time the windows coders haven't just been sitting around, they've been coding and releasing new versions. Yet wine is catching up. So... I guess you could say that the wine team is working faster
Just my 5 cents - piggy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"It's a ***** emulator for linux and it's beating the real deal. "
W.I.N.E. -- Wine is not an emulator. - rokaholic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For those of you who are saying this is lame, maybe you should rethink what is being benchmarked here. First of all, linux display drivers are not as mature as windows display drivers just by virtue of the fact that linux isn't supported as well by vendors as windows. Furthermore, these are tests are being run an in _emulated_ api, so to speak. The Windows API had to be reverse engineered to even make these programs run. So for wine to come close to windows and even _beat_ windows in some areas is pretty impressive actually.
- ToadX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yea.. so Windows won most of them... good job there WINE... WINE doesn't even implement as much as the Windows API.
For those of you who are saying it's great that WINE won some tests since it's an emulator, then you obviously don't know what WINE stands for. WINE = WINE Is Not an Emulator. Wine is an implementation of the Windows API, and is supposed to run applications at full speed. - compu73rg33k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The fact that wine wins at any benchmarks is amusing. It's a ***** emulator for linux and it's beating the real deal. Windows should be ashamed that the product they sell for $100 was beaten in some areas by an emulator.
- steved3298, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This is pretty good for a project that is still progressing quickly, I can't wait until DX9 support matures. +digg
- brispet1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I for one appreciate all the work done by open source contributors who allow people who are not rich and do not want to stoop to piracy an alternative to overpriced software. The fact that these people's work can even be compared to that of corporations with a massive staff pouring billions into development is a testament to their skill and dedication to an ideal of freedom, and quality. Congrats wine developers, I appreciate what you do for me. That being said I agree it is unfair to compare wine to the windows OS, they are not the same thing and were never meant to be, however from these benchmarks we can see that wine is often quite good at what it was designed to do.
- link_36p, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2But many windows games have OpenGL support like Half-Life :) Which is virtually perfected.
- falloutsyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it won in some benchmarks, very cool though +digg
- gildude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"the only 3dmark test that wine really won was an extremely old version, and they didn't even try the newest version of 3dmarks"
CaptHappy - good point - I bet it is because the newer version of 3DMark won't even run under WINE... - jpyun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"""Who wants to bed that most of the contests that WINE wins in are the things that depend on hardware that WINE emulates with a powerful CPU. I don't have anything against WINE, it is obviously a very powerful emulator/simulator/virtual pc. I just don't think that it is entirely fair to compair an actual machine to a virtual PC."""
Stupidest post ever. - mbwilliamson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2About 47% of the benchmarks are faster in Linux than their native Windows environment? That's pretty amazing from a programming standpoint. However, I'd like to see another group replicate this before I'll fully believe it.
- goffy59, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You know its not nice to diss people just cause they got the title wrong. To even begin to say that Digg will turn into a link pool cause of script kiddies, i think that just back fires on you. I think the world would be a better place without smart ass remarks, and people who think they are so smart, but what are you doing to help the world? And most people on digg are a bunch of script kiddies, and a lot of em don't even respect certain aspects of certain topics. For example: Windows, Linux, Mac, Microsoft, Google. I think digg is a big ass site where most news topics turn into Software/hardware/Company/ wars. That's so awesome how the team who make Wine are successful at all, they didn't create windows... And some tests show that wine was doing better. I wont all you smart asses to keep this statement to mind. Know that you make the world worse ;)
- battybattybatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"...Another way to spin this would be "Wine slower than windows in almost all benchmarks"
posted by vektuz (0) at 03:14 PM ..."
Dude, you HAVE to , you MUST, you are REQUIRED to repost this story with the new title. PLEASE! - deathpasser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"""Who wants to bed that most of the contests that WINE wins in are the things that depend on hardware that WINE emulates with a powerful CPU. I don't have anything against WINE, it is obviously a very powerful emulator/simulator/virtual pc. I just don't think that it is entirely fair to compair an actual machine to a virtual PC."""
Stupidest post ever. -Jpyun
That title's been claimed by ScrewMacUsers post:
you ***** headed morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah of course Wine beat Windows in some tests but That's right now! wait till' later when Windows Vista Comes out it'll kick the crap out of all such as linux,Wine,apple,mac,macintosh and all the crappy ass software, so wat now??? r u still sure wine is better??? by:Windows - bundaegi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1what about XP vs reactos? any benchmarks yet?
- deathpasser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0GotAmd:
I think if you want Wine for games then you'd go with something like http://sourceforge.net/projects/winex
http://winecvs.linux-gamers.net/index.php/Main_Page
etc. (if theres anymore, those two are the ones that come to mind first)
You wouldn't necessarily want to use good ol Wine for many games. - TomWickline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hello Everyone,
I don't know who submitted this here but thanks!
To answer some of the questions here:
I Have 3DMark 03, 05, and yes 06 installed and they all three start up.
3DMark 03 will complete one test at this time. 3DMark 05 & 06 needs Pixel Shader 2.0 support, Wine currently has PS 1.1 support.. PS 2.0 is in the works :-)
(Q) Why benchmark UT2004, Quake ?
Quake 4 will run in Wine as well... maybe I should bench it?
(A) If I run UT or Quake in Linux natively I can get the absolute FPS score, Then run the bench
in Wine and see just how close were are to native OpenGL. I need to post my native Linux scores as well. This will show how close OpenGL in Wine is to native OpenGL support under Linux..
(Comment) WINE spent 17 years to reach compatibility with Win95......
(A) Wine is 12 years in the making :-) and has good win2k support at this time as well as nt40, 95, 98 support.
(Q)Wine is Not WineX. WineCVS or Cedega, so why anyone would try to benchmark a gaming app in regular wine is beyond me ?
(A) the fine folks at TransGaming refuses to give back to the Wine project, so I refuse to use there warz! Why don't you benchmark what I have with Cedega and post it somewhere ?
Last I heard 3DMark2001SE wouldn't even install in Cedega.
(Q) who won?
I/O Wine wins
DX-7 Wine wins
OpenGL = Close
DX-8/9 = Windows wins
Cheers,
Tom Wickline - KrispyKringle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0aptiva:
I don't think Windows is that much of a moving target. The API is kept fairly constant for backwards compatibility, and apps are written to work still on 9x. So, maybe WINE spent 17 years to reach compatibility with Win95, but they haven't *replicated* the work of Microsoft. Especially since WINE is just a few APIs, not a whole OS.
Not that their achievement isn't impressive, but it ain't equivalent to the work of a few thousand pros. - TomWickline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Now your talking Apple's and Oranges, Linux is Open Source so the BSD folks can see all of it's internal workings. Where Windows is proprietary and closed source.
Windows is a moving target! and MS spends 6 Billion a year on its development.
Wine is a Open Source project and has one backer at this time CodeWeavers.
Can Wine run everything that Windows runs? NO.. but what it does run can run as fast if not faster. :-) it all comes down to how much time is spent on optimizing areas of the code.
Oh hold on M$ spends that 6 Billion on FUD attacks.......
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/51763/index.html
Tom - Guspaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Last time I tried Wine, I think it was two years ago, it failed horribly to recreate the UI of even the simplest of MDI applications (mIRC).
- KrispyKringle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0TomWickline:
Please attribute quotations properly (e.g. say "KrispyKringle wrote..." rather than "(comment)"). I believe you missed some of the context around what I was saying, however; other people in this thread were saying things along the lines of, "Gee, look at that, the WINE folks have done everything the MS folks have done; they've come from behind and caught up, *and* their code runs faster."
That's not true because it doesn't really run faster, they haven't done even a small chunk of everything the MS folks have done (like I said, they've implemented a compatability layer; they haven't implemented an OS), and they haven't implemented compatibility with the latest APIs (as someone else pointed out, the future, if MS gets their way, will be .NET and WinFx, not Win32).
17 years, 12 years, whatever. I was referring to something someone above had said; I don't know, myself, how old the WINE project has taken. My point was that WINE has implemented compatibility with Win32, which is fixed; they *haven't* "caught up" with Microsoft in any sense.
This doesn't make their achievment any less impressive, of course. But I think the "OMG! M$ can't keep up with a few open source hobbyists working in their free time!" comments are a bit tired. - mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Here it is folks: No more Cedega required.
Here come the Cedega fanboys... *ducks* - link_36p, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0***** ment to say windows users second time*
- Ssullivan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"We're not flaming Wine. Our complaint is the text in the post. "Wine beats Windows in benchmarks" is totally misleading. Windows won most of the benchmarks."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree that the title is somewhat misleading; but if it wasn't I bet this article wouldn't have made the front page. - Trevahaha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What's sorta sad is that WINE is trying to recreate the APIs of Win32 while Microsoft is trying to steer away from Win32 with WinFX as well as .NET
- link_36p, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0omfg u flamers are lame...... Wine is one of the keys that could acually make Linux a
realistic alternative to large amounts of linux users...
Im personally sick of all windows crashes and virises, but olny reason i switched is cause of wine. (oh how i love my apps) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://digg.com/software/Windows_XP_beats_Wine_in_majority_of_bemchmarks
yeah yeah, i know i mad a typo, big **** deal. - KrispyKringle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Tom: rnrnI forgot about this thread, so you may've moved on. I just saw it in my tabs...rnrnIn any case, you haven't answered in any meaningful way a single point I made. I noted that implementing an OS is not comparable to implementing an emulation layer. I noted that Win32 is not a changing API. And I noted that MS developers have been doing things that WINE developers will probably *never* do (but you didn't want to hear me talk about .NET or WinFX). rnrnIt's odd, because when I Googled your name, I discovered that you were apparently a *real* person. Yet here, you seem to be nothing but a troll. rnrnDigg really brings out the best in folks, doesn't it?
- TomWickline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WTF are you stuck on .NET or WinFX ?
I will answer any question that you have about the benchmarks that I ran.
.NET or WinFX are off subject, and im not a troll, im just not going to get sucked
into some meaningless bull *****!
Tom - KrispyKringle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hmm. Mess the CAPTCHA and Digg messes all your formatting. Damn.
- whateverdigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It's nice to see progress...
- deathguppie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The deal is. Wine began as a project to allow people to port their windows apps to linux without having to go through the fuss of rewriting everything. The librarys were created to deal with incongruencies between the way the two operating systems deal with things.rnrnSomewhere along the way someone noticed, that you could actually use the libraries to translate some of the binaries on the fly. Making it possible to run some windows apps directly on linux. This is different than an emulator as an emulator tries to create a duplicate OS that runs on top of an already running OS.rnrnThe fact that this was possible at all is amazing. It is also the only reason that I don't have a windows machine. There are some windows only apps that some people must have. rnrnWine makes life easier for linux users. It's not meant as flame feul for windowtards...
- Jozer99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Who wants to bed that most of the contests that WINE wins in are the things that depend on hardware that WINE emulates with a powerful CPU. I don't have anything against WINE, it is obviously a very powerful emulator/simulator/virtual pc. I just don't think that it is entirely fair to compair an actual machine to a virtual PC.
- daduke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am wondering why they are running quake3 and UT under wine, since it is natively running under linux.
- steveoa3d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I use Wine all the time on my box, SmartPAR, DVDShrink, FileZilla all work great under wine. It's a nice program for those few files that you NEED to run but don't want to boot to Windows to do so. Not to say that I would use it for all apps as there are so many great Linux apps to use
Wine is Not WineX. WineCVS or Cedega, so why anyone would try to benchmark a gaming app in regular wine is beyond me ? - PlancksCnst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@steveoa3d:
Why are you running FileZilla under WINE? Can't you find a native FTP app?
@jpyun:
If you think it's a dumb post, the please mod it down. We need more people moderating here. If it's dumb, it's safe to say it's not making a relevent argument, and is therefore off topic. -1
@deathpasser:
Same deal as jpyun. Mod it as a flame. -2 - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Last time I played Counter-Strike using Wine (a few months ago) it had some big problems with lag even though it said it was getting 99fps. Gameplay was not nearly as smooth as on Windows, but it was playable. If you were just gaming for the hell of it and didn't care it'd be okay but for someone who likes to win, it's not acceptable. My system was also more than adequate (Athlon X2 3800+, 1GB RAM, GeForce 6800GT). I think benchmarks can be okay, but real world usage can be very different from benchmark numbers.
Anyway, that is kind of cool. I really like the progress Wine has been making recently :) - KrispyKringle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0TomWickline:
This isn't, of course, relevant to a discussion of the benchmarks, but it *is* relevant to the stupid comments above. I posted largely in response to aptiva, who wrote, "...and keep in mind that in that time the windows coders haven't just been sitting around, they've been coding and releasing new versions. Yet wine is catching up. So... I guess you could say that the wine team is working faster." I'm sure it's readily apparent to you why that comment is stupid.
Comparing writing a compatibility layer to writing an OS is comparing apples and oranges. To say that the WINE devs have been catching up (catching up to what? The static Win32 API?) is pretty far from the truth.
Imagine this in a somewhat less heated example. Instead of MS, let's say we're talking about FreeBSD's Linux binary compatibility. If I were to say, "Hey, look at that, they've created compatibility with Linux, and Linux is still under develpment, so they must be faster devs," wouldn't that strike you as a bit, I don't know, completely ***** braindead? - TomWickline, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dude, .NET and WinFx is off topic... the topic is benchmarks under Wine and XP.
And come to think of it there are 147 test, 17 test aborted 14 on Wine; 3 on XP.
So if you remove the aborts there were 130 test run and Wine leads on 69 of 130 test.
I didn't choose the test to be in Wine's favor or XP's favor there what I have on hand!
And as for .NET and WinFx we will cross that road when it's built
Cheers,
Tom - hayden.evans, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0thats only because windowze is ***** gay
- torri, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0this is such boring spin... try watch a divx movie and run photoshop at the same time on wine with the same hardware and be reminded of a PII 400
- drbroccoli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0In all my experiences with wine, it was half as fast as running the program nativly on Windows. On the other hand, I don't need wine as I can find open source alternatives to all my windows programs except my games.
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