What is Digg?122 Comments
- jakereilly, on 08/17/2008, -5/+41The causal consumer doesn't need Apt-Get or sudo commands.
The casual consumer needs an OS that works and looks and acts like windows. It is unfortunate, but the truth.
Linux people don't seem to quite get that. - colonels1020, on 08/17/2008, -7/+36This will be the year of Linux!.... again.....
- Balk2K, on 08/17/2008, -1/+21first solid food?
- weeksa, on 08/17/2008, -10/+29Here is the thing.
All netbook manufacturers love to put their own flavour of linux on there, and its heavily modified to make it "easier to use", but then locks out all the power of linux.
Apt-Get, and sudo commands.... Not there unless you really look, and know keyboard shortcuts. Its also very hard to install a non Asus/Acer/etc sanctioned application, thus making real customization or anything harder to use and learn, and not to mention the fact that netbooks don't come with cd/dvd drives and people are now associating this to linux.
The Netbook is a HORRID first impression for new linux-users. - mianos, on 08/17/2008, -1/+17A good idea for an article but almost content free.
- s14sh3r, on 08/17/2008, -2/+13The thing is, most users aren't as savvy as we are. They don't want to have to enter commands, they want to click a button. Anything more just confuses them.
- AirRaven, on 08/17/2008, -1/+11Yes- 2009 shall *TRULY* be the year of the Linux Desktop! ;-)
- connieLingus, on 08/17/2008, -0/+10i've said it before and i'll say it again...the OS you run is pretty unimportant as compared to the application that run on top of it.
people want Windows because it lets them run the software they want to use. - trollick, on 08/17/2008, -5/+14No
- ZephyrNinety, on 08/17/2008, -1/+10Year Of The Linux should be part of the Zodiac
- Atomic1fire, on 08/17/2008, -5/+13wow, you would be so right on, If you were not a drug user, and had an education to boot, which probably would change your prospective tenfold.
- smotpoker, on 08/17/2008, -2/+10@Jake
The casual user doesn't need an OS that 'looks and acts' like Windows. It just has to be simple and intuitive. It doesn't have to have/run the exact same applications as long as there are alternatives that provide the same or better functionality that is equally intuitive. Most users, casual or not, do not mind learning new stuff if it isn't overwhelming complicated, especially if they know it is easier or more beneficial. Just because MS had something that seemed ideal for a while does not mean it is the best possible forever
@norman
There is no way to make that happen without a larger userbase, period. You think we Linux-enthusiasts try to convince people to of Linux's greatness out of egotism or altruism? No, it is primarily for a very practical and selfish reason for most... to get more vendor support.
The Linux OS is and many distributions are great as they are and are completely viable, superior, alternatives to both OSX and Windows for the vast majority of tasks/users. The main hurdle is vendor support and gaining market share is the key. - 3leggedHorse, on 08/17/2008, -0/+8The main problem of running linux on a laptop is the battery life sux, I get about an hour on my tosh running ubuntu, and about 1hr 45 running XP. This also seems to be a problem when linux laptops get reviewed, even though they are using SSD.
- minorgods, on 08/17/2008, -1/+812 minutes so far.. I think your Vista is broke dude. mine boots alot quicker than that. (well, 10 minutes max) :)
- norman619, on 08/17/2008, -3/+10No the casual consumer needs an OS that is easy to use AND runs all of their applications. People do not like having to learn new software. Most users resist that sort of change. You want people to start using Linux? Convince the major software vendors to remove the ultimate roadblock and start supporting Linux.
- minorgods, on 08/17/2008, -0/+7I thought The enterprise already paved the way for linux.
I do love me some compiz fluff on my home machine tho. Just remember the old saying "Make it idiot proof and only idiots will use it." - christopher79, on 08/17/2008, -0/+6my wife has the 4 gig eeepc and loves its simple interface, and has no problem using open office or google docs. i just picked up the acer aspire one, its got a 120 gig hard drive and windows, what has always held me back from linux is no adobe suite and feature for feature replacements of the other apps i use. so linux is good for advanced and low end users but they need to fill in the gap.
- YodaNub, on 08/17/2008, -0/+6I agree with Weeksa. I grabbed an Eee recently with Linux on it, and was absolutely appalled by Xandros. The interface was so unintuitive, a few not-so-saavy friends of mine wanted an Eee, and I told them to grab the Windows version.
I was severely disappointed in the stock configuration of Xandros. - zeebo, on 08/17/2008, -0/+5That's in the hands of the application developers unfortunately. As long as they refuse to support multiple platforms the apps just aren't going to be there. Web apps that can be used anywhere are the future.
- starsky51, on 08/17/2008, -2/+7I think the new trend of motherboard manufacturers putting an embedded Linux desktop in as a boot option will introduce more people to Linux. I believe these will be the Trojan horses Linux has needed to show Windows users what it is capable of.
- inactive, on 08/17/2008, -0/+4I could understand an easier version of linux, but Xandros on the Eee is just to dumbed down to be of any real use.
- norman619, on 08/17/2008, -5/+9Way ignore the REAL problem with Linux. I also love how you love to blame MS for the shortcoming of Linux. No project can change the fact that Linux will never become a mainstream OS until major software vendors start supporting it and Major software vendors will not support Linux until more people use it. You forget the thing that will make Linux a success is more USERS. People like you have lost touch with the average computer user. They have applications they already know and love. Why on earth would they switch to a new OS that does not support those application and forces them to either do w/o most of those apps and try to learn new applications which tend to be inferior? The future of Linux is not in these stupid projects. The future of Linux is in the hands of software vendors like Adobe. Until they view supporting Linux as a good business decision Linux will stay where it is.
- digitaldivinci, on 08/17/2008, -0/+4Lower hardware requirements, especially the lower installation sizes, along with a free-to-own OS have brought the costs down considerably. Unfortunately, when Mr. Smith goes to purchase a computer this is the specification they look at first.
On the plus side, a lower entry price means more people having access to the greatest source of information ever. And of course porn. - bowdie, on 08/17/2008, -0/+4All this. My 701 4G eeepc had Xandros on it as stock. I tried eeeUbuntu, and it was a nightmare. I've recently installed XP on it, and it works a treat.
- Pother, on 08/17/2008, -1/+5I don't know what people are doing or are expecting...
So I just flipped on my Ubuntu 8.04 desktop.
25 sec for the BIOS.
55 sec from the start of GRUB to LOGON.
30 sec from entering password to Desktop.
That's on a Athlon XP 1800+ with 1Gb mem and an 80 Gb HDD.
Let me reboot my Vista laptop here and see what it does... (I'll reply again with that's timings.) - connieLingus, on 08/17/2008, -0/+4well damn its obvious...this is the decade of Linux!
- smotpoker, on 08/17/2008, -0/+4He didn't say everyone should be forced to enter commands. He said crippling the prompt and limiting the applications a person can use and making the system harder to customize is bad.
The command prompt is the most portable way to perform many (if not most) tasks across distros without making them all have to use identical UIs. Now these netbook manufacturers are taking that away and in the process rendering half of the documentation and scripts available useless while at the same time limiting their ability to install half of the applications available to Linux.
If what he said is true, it really is a bad impression. New users shouldn't be lead to believe that Linux only has like 10 apps available or that certain apps only work with certain systems or that half of the docs are completely inaccurate. - alliekins619, on 08/17/2008, -1/+5Netbooks with Linux do run faster, I'll give you that. But I just purchased a netbook with SLED and I can say I'm pretty dissapointed. As a long-time Ubuntuer I was excited to try a new distro, but for the "average user" you speak of Linux in general is far from ready. My netbook came with a built-in camera I was pretty psyched to use, but it didn't come with linux drivers. After trying to install them and getting 600 dependency errors, my netbook now boots straight to the kernel and I need to reinstall. And I am fairly competent.
I keep saying it and nobody listens, but Linux will never be ready for prime time until they get some decent usability engineers in there. Most of the Linux community is so far out of touch with user that they can't understand why Grandma doesn't know how to compile her own kernel. - MavRevMatt, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3@smotpoker
"Most users, casual or not, do not mind learning new stuff if it isn't overwhelming complicated, especially if they know it is easier or more beneficial."
I can attest to that, my grandmother had no problem learning the few changes from XP to Ubuntu on her desktop because she knew it wouldn't cause her problems from viruses and random Windows problems. - daveluke1, on 08/17/2008, -1/+4Is Linux really getting bigger, or is it just the digg audience that is more Linux-aware?
- norman619, on 08/17/2008, -2/+5Bravo! Fianlly someone that acknowledges this fact.
- championchap, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3@smotpoker
"There is no way to make that happen without a larger userbase, period."
I have to tell you how much that annyed me. Typing the word "period" then putting one afterwards is just as bad as saying "Pun not intended". - dhughes, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3 Exactly, it seems the majority of average home users (the non techs, parents, grandma, aunts) just use a few applications such as a word processor, web browser, e-mail.
Any OS that has those is fine, I doubt the average non tech person would care if they used Firefox on Linux, Windows or a Mac as long as it did what they wanted it to, which scares the crap out of corporate execs. I think Apple and Microsoft can see the writing on the wall that the OS as a product is going to fade away replaced by web apps or any piece of hardware that can connect to the web. The big battle is to make applications that can run on all these devices and Operating Systems and Open Source has the lead.
It's like fast food, people don't care about the process behind the scenes as long as the result is what they want.
- santaliqueur, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3IBM and Sun don't have a major software packages that are anywhere nearly as popular as Adobe's software.
- zeebo, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3Splashtop is going to grow more functional as time goes on. As virtualization technologies improve I can see Windows being relegated to a kind of compatibility mode which you only bring up when you need to run a legacy app.
- ubuwalker31, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3My fiancee has an Asus Eee and it introduced her to Linux. I mean, she doesn't know sudo from sudoku, but she easily uses the GUI that Asus provided with no instruction from me. It definitely lowered her resistance to Linux on her regular desktop computer as well.
- Double-Z, on 08/17/2008, -3/+6I think these are the perfect place for linux to show what it can do, including reducing the cost of the system.
I've got a question for the Linux fans out there, which is semi-relevant to this post. I love windows, but am a fan of Linux too.
Q. I need a system which gets to the desktop as soon as possible for basic needs (web, email). Can you recommend a distro that gets to the desktop really quickly? My problem with all the distros I've installed is that they seem to have longer load times than windows does. Thanks in advance for any replies. - starsky51, on 08/17/2008, -1/+4You don't seem to understand the difference between commercial software and Free software.
Software development on the scale of Linux costs a lot of money, Large companies contribute enormously, but generally only develop in the areas that matter to them. For a long time this has meant that UI and driver development has been slow. As more and more companies look to provide their customers with Linux desktop software, this will improve.
Marketing also costs a lot of money so until the companies with the cash see value in large-scale marketing campaigns for Linux, it is up to individuals and groups of volunteers to fight the good fight and spread the word.
Most computer users are fickle and, unless an superior alternative is waved under their noses, they will use whatever systems they are used to. The software you mentioned probably accounts for 10% of users, maximum. PC gaming is on the decline.
The perceived reliance on the command line is an issue, but as users use Linux more and more in their everyday life, they will realise that this is just FUD.
In conclusion, Linux pickup will be slow but inevitable. - lolcat23, on 08/17/2008, -0/+3I believe that the users of these netbooks are two kinds : The geek kind, that want to to tinker etc. And those _WILL_ find a way to install Xubuntu or whatever they want.
The other kind, those that are being said to get a bad impression from theire first linux experience on these netbooks. They will not want to change anything if things are working. simple as that, they wont need the command prompt. cause they dont care about that stuff. And if they do, look at user group 1, there will be posts on forums etc to tell you what to do.
The way i see it. These netbooks are a huge lift for linux. Right now, they might not be much. Just a email-doc-net-rss-reader and some basic programs, but thats what you know when you buy the thing. What im thinking about are the next generations. the ones that slowly and slowly are getting smarter and more efficient - aka support more programs while still being very very light and small. by that time, the os's are gonna be more and more apparent(not so much in the netbooks of today, just like ppl dont realize the os's are different between mobile phones, they dont think "aah yes, i love the os on my sony ericsson, but i like the apps better on the nokia, cant i install nokia apps on my sony?" for them(and me) its a whole package.
And i think that most ppl will like this linux package. atleast the normal user will have _one_ positive, personal experience of linux. - PaulRay, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2I don't know why you're getting dugg down, you made me chuckle. :o)
- morepowerr, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2ASUS have a few mother boards that can boot right in to web mode. Has a small linux OS Firefox and few other web apps on an on board chip
- ubuwalker31, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2I'm not quite sure what you mean by "mainstream apps", but I assume you mean something like Internet Explorer, Word and Power Point. She is a student and a teacher and gets along quite nicely with Open Office and Firefox. I just asked her if there were any programs that she needed that couldn't run on her Asus, and she said no...with the exception of her curriculum planning software...which she runs on her XP desktop box.
Piss poor vendor support is a universal weakness that extends into Mac, PC and Linux spheres. Its not unique to Linux. Interestingly enough, there was an assignment that involved posting to a web forum that only she (and a few tech savvy students) were able to do correctly because the vendor didn't set the site to work properly on Windows. Go figure. - santaliqueur, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2VMware server is free, install XP and use the apps you miss.
- dzw120, on 08/17/2008, -1/+3Not saying that the notebook will pave the Linux, but as for who buys notebooks - it's pretty much anyone who doesn't require a ton of processing power or screen real estate. That's the vast majority of the market, seeing as that covers pretty much the entire casual user market. Price is really important in that market, giving Linux an edge - but at the same time, they're casual users so familiarity with the OS is going to be important as well.
- lolcat23, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2i think not. be cause i dont think ppl think of netbooks as small computers with linux. they see it as individual products. So if eeepc fails, they think "naw, didnt like the eeepc, maybe [other netbook] is better", i dont think they consider the fact it was linux this-or-that that made it fail.
Flexible for most users means trouble, they want something that is atleast decent in its as-is state. no need for tinkering. and like i said earlier, those that want tinkering will find ways of doing it, by installing other distros or "unlocking" the currently installed distro. The ppl who dont want to tinker dont care if the terminal doesnt work, has limited functionality or whatever, they just want to check their email and read some digg stories :P - abbathdoom, on 08/17/2008, -1/+31. Even if half the netbooks running Linux get converted to Windows that is still a hell of a lot of Linux installs out there, far more than there was before the netbook explosion.
2. Regardless what consumers do with their netbook after purchase, the fact that they are shipping with Linux means Linux is getting more full time coders and more hardware support, which can only be a good thing. This can only lead to increasingly less people wanting to switch out the bundled Linux and only improve wider adoption of Linux in general. - bdbr, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2The popular smart phones are Windows-like; the netbook doesn't have to be either. What it does need is a flexible interface that can be configured with varying levels of simplicity and complexity. Application installs need to be as easy as clicking on a link on the vendor's website (like Windows). Every netbook manufacturer having their own distro will severely limit the netbook.
- leha, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2It is not linux fault, the problem is that every maker of laptops releases its own version of ACPI as there is no solid specification for it. On top of it many implementations dont follow this standart and introduce some bugs. The end result is that there are windows drivers made by laptop makers that work but linux developers dont have time to reverse engineer every freaking modification of ACPI so it works like ***** in linux.
- 3Den, on 08/17/2008, -0/+2I dunno guys...
My new eee900 running the stock xandros linux in advanced desktop mode.
It's usable 30-40 seconds after I hit the switch.
Their distro is a bit behind... installing the latest versions of some stuff (like openoffice) won't go smoothly, but it has firefox, openoffice, and does whatever I want.
It can only get better from here... - SteveMax, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1You don't have to target "the average user" to be successful. An even better strategy is to target the new users, those who aren't used to Windows yet. That way, you don't have to compromise usability and/or features to make it look/act like Windows, and you will get a huge user base. Face it, those netbooks will be the main computers of hundreds of millions of people in emerging/underdeveloped countries. As soon as you get to such big user bases (and exactly in countries where the economy is growing and quality of life is increasing), the big developers (Adobe, EA, etc) will have to act, they can't afford to lose such a huge market. This would remove the last real barrier for Linux acceptance, the lack of some specialized software such as Adobe's CS and games.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 124 discussions
The Digg Toolbar for Firefox lets you Digg, submit content, and keep track of Digg even when you're not on the Digg site. Download the official 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is