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86 Comments
- metalhead3767, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Its more of a how-to then a answer to why.
- prammy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22So tell me, when you have an xvid codec file in windows or os x, do you just watch it? Or do you have to download a codec?
Actually how about watching a DVD in a fresh install of XP? Oh thats right, you have to install some DVD decoder to watch it.
The install process for the codecs in Ubuntu takes around 2 minutes. Including download time if you have a slow connection. If you have broadband, hell make that 30 seconds. - kingace, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Uh, no, wrong. You need to install mp3 codecs, not players. Most music players on linux (Totem, Banshee, Beep) will not play mp3's until you have the codec.
- shadowmoses, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Its an important question but unfortunately the link contains no answer....
- furyg3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18No dictionaries were included, apparently.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I agree with Realplayer but I think Java is more necessary on a Linux system than anywhere else. I don't use Java on Windows (never needed to) but quite a few Linux apps are Java based, no?
- OpCzar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Yeah, for a first timer, there isn't much you can do on Linux without the help of Internet instructions. Guess what I couldn't do once I popped that Ubuntu live-cd into the tray: couldn't connect to my wifi and didn't know what to install...
- Arevos, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12What are you talking about, PJBonoVox? Unlike Windows, where the majority of drivers are developed independently by hardware manufacturers, Linux distros include as many drivers as legally and technically possible on the install CD.
The problem is that very few hardware supplies bother creating Linux drivers, so Linux hackers have to reverse engineer all of the drivers from scratch. Whilst many established technologies work fine, new or uncommon pieces of hardware are more unpredictable. - 8^)Jung, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8FreeSpire (www.freespire.org) is a free version of Linspire. It comes with all but DVD playback support for free.
- epimer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Or, for Ubuntu (I'm going to get dugg down for just using the "U" word...), run automatix to put in all the useful stuff that isn't available out of the box.
- prammy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Playing MP3s is not an OS function. Same with DVDs. They are all extra software that people add.
For example, I can say wtf OS X and XP cannot play ogg files by default, or they don't have a spreadsheet installed by default.
The one thing I will agree is wireless. Then again thats for broadcom chipsets for the most part. My roommate's laptop with an atheros wifi card worked right out of a default Ubuntu install. I had to copy the firmware for my card (Broadcom 4306) but after that it works fine. - curunir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9This is dumb. Windows doesn't play DVD's "out of the box" either - unless (in some cases) your box says "Dell" on it and they've already installed your DVD software for you.
In fact, this guy's "box" is something free he downloaded over the internet - it's not a box at all. Go buy a copy of Linspire, open the box, install - DVDs and MP3's play just fine! - Arevos, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Saying "Because Linux sucks" implies that the lack of MP3 and DVD support is somehow the fault of the people developing Linux. You do know that this isn't the case?
- xulkid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Ubuntu linux.
Automatix...
Done.
Every laptop I have installed Ubuntu on, the wifi works out of the box. - craterburnsu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Gentoo gets around this since you're installing via portage they have all the packages in there, while the core itself doesn't contain any of them. This works out magnificently because you're already installing everything else anyway from portage.
- 4bit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@furyg3
The problem is it's installing software for a use that has become so common, it seems like it should be expected in the OS.
I'm not saying people shouldn't learn to operate their computers, but you have to accept they've become something more casual to many people out there. Additionally, there is a large group of even casual users looking for an alternative to an OS that is starting to cost as much money as a new PC from Dell. The Linux community seems poised to fill that niche.
But it won't happen without people being willing to help others break into the circle, overcome misconceptions, and TEACH them how to do it. The manual is written one way, and not everyone gets it the way it's written. When that fails they NEED a friendly community, which seems to be rarely what they get.
If you wish to continue being a fringe element, no one is stopping you, but posting things like RTFM which in itself to a new person is like saying THAC0 to a quarterback, only alienate them further. Then angers them against the entire community when they figure out what the 'F' stands for.
Even if you accept Linux as nothing more than a pile of software written by a bunch of people, it can only improve with MORE people. Building walls, or not welcoming them in, not only hurts them, but your own products as well.
Just my opinion though. - NoSuchAgency, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11"RTFM is part of the linux experiance" is not going to help promote Linux, dude. Some people are simply not technically adept, they can install software in Windows but editing config files by hand etc. is simply not something they are willing to do, any more than they want to align the tires on their car themselves.
If you want more people to use Linux, it has to be easier to use. Admittedly, this driver issue is partly the manufacturers' fault, but have sympathy for those who just want their OS to work, without tweaking it by hand for hours or scouring the net on a second PC trying to get their linux box to connect at all. - psilanthropist, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12@atdigg:
unfortunatly for you, Linspire is not a totally free distro.
Since you guys are saying that the article doesn't explain why, here's why -
Because most of the popular Linux distros such as Ubuntu and Debian are all covered by the GPL and under that its illegal to put propreitory formats/software on the OS. but what the user install later is none of their concern, which is why everything is easily accessible via the repositories.
Other distros such as Linspire and Xandros and PCLOS (im not sure about this) are quite happy at putting propreitory stuff in the OS. So, if you want everything "out-of-the-box" then you should go for one of these. But if you want a true linux distro, go with Ubuntu and follow the hundreds of guides out there on the web. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@Arevos :
I meant I wish that the hardware manufacturers would included their Linux drivers on their install CDs. - furyg3, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Heaven forbid you'd have to learn how to install things on your new operating system...
Like it or not, RTFM is part of the linux experiance, just like spyware is part of the windows experiance. Even if (and it's gotten A LOT better since my early slackware days) various distros make very well packaged cd's with easy to install software, at some point you're going to have to do something horrifying like (gasp!) install beep media player.
Geez, watch out in a few months when this guy tries to upgrade his kernel... - eelco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The howto on Fedora is missing the most important repository: livna.org. It's probably the only one you need.
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Windows can't play DVDs out of the box! Windows CAN play an MP3 out of the box, but that's about it. SOME *nix distros include MP3 support out of the box.
When I'm done installing Ubuntu I can do real work! Internet, Word Processing, Spreadsheets, image and video editing.
What can Windows do? Internet (maybe, if it had drivers for your NIC) wordpad, and solitaire. I geuss you're going to have to (gasp) INSTALL SOFTWARE to get the rest! - furyg3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@NSA
Look, I'm not defending the hardware manufacturers for not creating the drivers themselves and GPL-ing them, nor am I defending the distributers for not clearly explainig (on install) that certain things may not be present because of licensing restrictions, as well as detailed instructions on how to install them.
The deal is that Linux is a community project. I'm not trying to "promote Linux" to anyone. Maybe Red Hat is, but I'm not. Linux is what it is: thousands of software projects tied together, most for free, and with that comes complicated relationships like no legal dvd support.
Instead of whining about how Linux will never beat Microsoft (?) unless you can install it in 30 seconds and play all your porn instantly, I suggest that people "RTFM" and try to understand what's going on, why it's going on, and what they can do to make it better or easier. After all, this is open source software, anyone can feel free to write their own drivers or contribute money or time to a group who is working on exactly what they need.
Additionally it's not "Linux's fault" (whatever that means) that the MPAA encrypts their DVD's and will sue if you don't pay them for the right to play the movie you bought.
I'm not trying to be rude when I say "RTFM". It's just that this is *installing software* for christ's sake. You have to learn how to do it on every other operating system, right down to your cell phone. Take the time to figure out what you're doing or ask someone for help in your distro's forums or irc channels. Just don't go on digg and rant about how ***** linux is. geez. - JEmerson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6In my opinion, the article glosses over things far too much. Mp3 support has more to do with distros freaking out about shadows on the wall than any real threat. About three years back everyone had mp3 support, but then red hat had a freakout and the rest of the herd followed suit.
- nroose, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11And Linspire is not free, is it?
How about using http://www.zamzar.com/conversionTypes.php? You can convert it to Ogg, which is free of royalties. - vegascoop, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8PCLinuxOS supports everything listed right out of the box. It even supported my NVIDIA GForce 6800. It is actually quite amazing and free.
- subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@furyg3
NSA made no comment about the quality of the Linux desktop. Just that in it's current state most users who find XP challenging won't consider an alternative that's even slightly more difficult. So Linux is not for them and so be it.
Don't forget that lots of Winusers consider Mac some sort of alien OS and Macusers REAL oddballs. And Linux? WTF is that? (I know this from personal experience).
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Uh huh, that's why half the internet runs on it.
- drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3> Uh huh, that's why half the internet runs on it.
No *****.
50% of Web servers. 60% of web servers run open source software. All the largest and busiest websites, except for ones owned by Microsoft.
Also 70% of the top 500 most powerfull super computers in the world run Linux.
Also all those 3d hollywood movies.. made and rendered on Linux.
It's the second most popular operating system in embedded work.
It's used by the NSA.
It's replacing 'high end' Unix in the marketplace. It's killed SCO. It caused Sun to open source it's operating system. It's now being recommended over AIX by IBM for most of their customers.
It's more popular in 'enterprise' (in other words nothing to do with managing desktops) computing datacenters then Windows.
It's used by Google. Without Linux and cheap commodity clusters they wouldn't be able to outperform and outmanuver companies like Microsoft that are 20x their size.
If you think that Linux is nothing but a 'hobbyist' operating system then you have no ***** clue about computers at all. - subgeniusd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@NSA: Makes no difference how many times that obvious point is made --certain people will not listen. They are comfortable with their niche status and don't care if Windows remains the top OS forever.
I frequently use the console and even play with the command prompt in XP. But most computer users consider that just plain weird. - sgtstadanko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4last time i checked, Windows XP doesn't support mp3, DVD, and certain wireless cards out of the box either.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8 That's why I bought my OEM copy of Linspire 5.0 for $20.00...I wanted the maxamin amount of extras with the minimin amount of work. Installing was easy and Real Player,Flash,etc. was already on the disk. I had a chouce of CD players,which made things really easy.
- youngcable, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9but why would you want to convert from one lossy format to another lossy format?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I don't see any problem with this
- AICkieran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2MrGrump, You sir are full of *****...
I use XP pro and debian for my desktop and ubuntu with fluxbox on my laptop on a daily basis, i also own a mac(admittedly a G4 OS 10.3.9) so i'm not biased.
The biggest problem is hardware support which really isn't the communities fault, its the hardware manufacturers, and let's face it an xp install isn't really any less time consuming unless you've made an unattended install cd....
Install xp
Install drivers for hardware that isn't supported out of the box
Grab service packs and hotfixes
Registry tweaks
Install software including dvd decoder, media player update, anti spyware/virus, maybe a firewall if you have no hardware firewall.
Remove ***** from startup you don't want
Configure services and disable the ones you don't want
etc.
Atleast for me installing linux is much simpler (EVERY piece of hardware supported out of the box, including my wifi card (prism based chipset) )
And as for your claim that linux will go nowhere in the real world, just look at the server market share. Tbh i really don't give a ***** about how popular linux is, it was never intended to be THE o/s it was intended as an alternative os for the people that like the freedom to have the system THEY WANT. - Apreche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Everybody knows the reason. It is because there is questionable legality. However. Someone should make a free distro that does contain these things out of the box and give the middle finger to the law. Distribute the distro over bittorrent, and it will almost immediately become the #1 desktop Linux distribution.
- JEmerson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Java's bloated? Out of curiosity, what about it would you say is bloated in the current mustang builds, in comparison to equally feature rich VM/Class combinations such as mono or microsoft's .net implementations?
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Consumer Linux distro: Already having a multimedia suite, transcoder and DVD player, and the best music player for any platform (amarok) with iPod support and a zillion other features on the os install disc - plug in and sync immediately after installation.
Having to drop a lib in to watch commercial DVDs, usually using a single command that finds, downloads and installs it for you automatically.
Consumer Windows Installation: No DVD support at all, barely has multimedia capability. Have to download and install whole apps like Cyberlank OMGDVD and Winamp/iTunes to support common media features and portable audio players, AS WELL AS the same basic set of codecs and decryption functionality.
How you spin windows coming off best in that, I don't know, but I've installed and support linux for end users and to say windows has more functionality "out-of-the-box" than a consumer linux distro is just plain lunacy. - dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I guess we just have a lot of new people coming in asking these questions. I'm so accustomed to the whole issue I guess I forget that other people are not.
- neithernet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Debian does the same IF you have a supported card. Careful shopping prior to install helps. If you have a card that does not have native support and is Atheros based, madwifi (madwifi.org) is easy to install. You'll taint your kernel because the HAL is binary only, but I doubt you'll feel any pain.
Debian also installs mp3 support. - prammy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3RTFM stands for Read The Fine Manual. For the most part.
Anyways as for friendly support, maybe I'm on drugs or maybe I am overtly thick skinned but outside of #debian like 3 years ago, I have always found the support community of Fedora, Ubuntu, SuSE, irc channels like #linuxhelp usually very supportive and friendly.
Then again there are those people who come into an irc channel or onto a support forum, completely ignore the instructions on how to post and end up getting flamed. Well those are the same people who also refuse to read manuals, have their VCRs clock set to a blinking 12:00 etc. Those people get flamed for a reason, they refuse to try and follow simple instructions.
When you call up Dell, you get a support person who is paid to do the job. When you call Apple, the applecare tech is paid to do his job. When you go to community support, you are asking other people for help who are clearly donating their time. As a sign of respect, the very least someone can do is to read the instructions for the support forum or the irc channel. It is not much to ask. Usually the people who get told to "RTFM" are those who don't even follow the forum/irc channel rules in asking for help. I'm sure that if you call redhat support and _pay_ them for support, they will ignore the fact that you did not read the manual and teach you how to do whatever it is you wanted to do. With commercial support the payment is monetary, with community support its following simple instructions and minimize wasting the time of the people who are there to help.
I will agree on the installer issue. Linux does need an easier way to install packages from the end user's perspective. It needs a unified front across distributions. In that aspect I do like autopackage since it is not distribution specific. - stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"And Linspire is not free, is it?"
Yes it is, at the link below, as someone mentioned above.
http://freespire.org/
"Freespire is a community-driven, Debian-based Linux distribution which legally supports (or has one-click access to support): MP3, DVD, Windows Media, QuickTime, Java, Flash, Real, ATI drivers, nVidia drivers, Adobe Acrobat Reader, proprietary WiFi drivers, fonts, and more. In addition to the CNR (click and run) service, Freespire provides free access to the entire Freespire open source application pool using apt-get."
FWIW, windows xp doesn't have legal/free DVD playback out of the box. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2In the end, it's like making the switch to mac from windows.
You get a potentially better system for your needs, but you have to cross familiarity off your list of considerations.
You also get the opportunity to do everything the other platform can do, but you'll be using mostly different software to do it, with some exceptions, and you'll want to pick your hardware out specially in an ideal world.
All of that said, yes - I switched over a few years ago now on my personal system. I run photoshop, director and some development software, and get director shockwave support in linux browsers - all through crossover pro and VMWare, because I really wanted to take some of my work app support with me. It costs more money than using my "free" windows license, but then you get what you pay for.
I bought a playstation and installed that copy of windows on a caddied hard drive for the games which are specific to those platforms (I'm fond of Gran Turismo and The Elder Scrolls series every now and then at a weekend), but I would never dream of so much as googling on windows now and haven't bothered gaming in it in ages, it's not half so good for actual personal computing as a linux/KDE or even a mac/OS X system - I'm to the point now where most of the time I will play a game in linux natively or through wine rather than go without decent email, desktop functionality and stuff for a while. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4It isn't hard as long as you know it and as long as you remember it. Fortunately this is not a problem for power users, but it's a no-no for people who have no time/interest to read documentation, like mom and dad.
- b7illsmith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ JPBonoVox -
Not really. I run Linux but I don't have a Java VM installed. - j0keR, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I think the better question is why the ***** nobody offers a simple installer that will install all of this. Seriously, ***** copyright.
- Luv5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2With Vista coming soon and lot of restrictions on using Office suites and other payware tools, I am thinking of switching to Linux for good. Then you think of the MP3 and then the you are back to square one - patented technologies or copyrighted material. To switch or not to switch is the big question. In my books, Windows is loosing ground fast mainly due to Malware. Any tool/utility or media file you download these days has some sort of malware in it. Atleast that is less true on Linux systems.
- AICkieran, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah, because you couldn't have done that on any other distro...
[/sarcasm] - AlphaToxic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I just wanted to point out that it is not "laws", it is US ***** laws. Practically they are freely distributable in all other countries, but major distros, of course, want to distribute in the US also and don't want to make a separate version, so they cut out the copyrighted stuff.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Don't confuse copyright with restrictive IP laws.
The GPL is in fact one of the strongest expressions of copyright around at the moment, and it's the copyright-holder's right to stipulate the terms of use which in some ways underpins the whole thing.
Restrictive IP laws are absolutely the enemy of the copyright holder.
Software patents work for the large company with the frivolous patent, stealing control from the legitimate copyright holder who did the work but has less money.
The people who are enforcing restrictive IP laws now and lobbying hardest to get everything locked down, are people who love money and hate the small copyright-holder.
They just want more rights to rape other people's copyrights for all the money they're worth, be it the musician who has to watch while the RIAA 12-year-olds for downloading her track, or the company/individual getting demands of money for *their own software for which they own the copyright* because some retard in a patent office somewhere gave Amazon/(insert legal IP parasite here) a patent on the letter "E". -
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