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107 Comments
- radiofrequency, on 08/12/2008, -3/+101You don't see computer programmers or hardware engineers tell lawyers how to do their jobs so why do lawyers think they're qualified to discuss the technology industry?
- jimmyJMs, on 08/12/2008, -3/+61Wow digg, I'm sitting in a law lecture learning about open-source and Linux when the Digg toolbar pops up with this story. Now that's an algorithm I'm impressed with!
- meinrosebud, on 08/12/2008, -7/+53Because there is no potential litigation because it is open source software. And sorry IMO anything that stops a lawyer from getting money IS a good thing!
- CCmachined, on 08/12/2008, -5/+37http://legaltech.law.com/commentary-the-penguin-do ...
"The learning curve for Linux and freeware is enormous, because it involves relearning computing from scratch with software that is not user friendly." Wrong.
"So instead of coming from large reputable companies, freeware comes from students, underemployed programmers and fly-by-nighters from distant continents, who ask for donations rather than payment, who seem to have little idea of what American commercial users want and expect in a professional environment." < What the *****, that business model is EXACTLY how Microsoft got corrupted into what it is today...
"Windows is typically bundled with the purchase of a new computer, buying it that way really only adds about $75 under bulk licenses to computer makers. And that is money that can’t really be saved by avoiding Windows because computers sold without any OS or with Linux as an alternative are hard to find, and don’t sell cheaper." < Wrong. see Dell Ubuntu, and besides, you build a computer from parts and install yourself, thats what every self-respecting Linux user does...
"a Linux DIY installation like a DIY auto repair, is extremely complex, convoluted, time consuming and often dicey," Nope. even my laptop runs like a dream under Ubuntu, with a dual boot to boot. just be careful about the hardware you stick it on.
"re-installations of Windows may restore the desired level of functionality at minimal cost, and yet provide more utility for middle-aged computers that are not powerful enough for new versions of Linux." Bollocks. this guy has never heard of DSL or even Xubuntu.
***** this article. Dugg. - andsalvatierra, on 08/12/2008, -1/+32FOSS allows for greater freedoms in usage and application of the software in question. Unlike software with highly restrictive licenses, the legalities of said software's use is fairly easy to understand. That's why there are significantly less problems and cases from where legal situations can arise, therefore exposing the vested interest of these lawyers.
That's my perspective, at least. - TheMachine1, on 08/12/2008, -2/+30Lawyers know that there is more money available to represent closed source software companies with their harassment lawsuits against free software developers.
- inactive, on 08/11/2008, -2/+24"Listen, you can't do that, because the five billion creators of this free software will be very angry."
- CCmachined, on 08/12/2008, -1/+22"Open Office does not have grammar check and does not have an envelope maker"
... - ieee, on 08/12/2008, -1/+21"itwire.com — Professionals who work on the basis of billable hours rarely take the time out to write an article for publication unless they have a valid reason for doing so"
For similar reasons that is why I laugh when people threaten to get their lawyer, especially their relative who is a lawyer moving on a situation where they feel personally insulted, especially if they were insulted online.
That is one GOOD thing about lawyers. They don't waste their time, not even a moment. They don't do a thing unless they think they can win or make money. They will charge you even to talk to them. - arcticblue, on 08/12/2008, -0/+20No, actually it's not.
- KenOh, on 08/12/2008, -1/+19It's a real shame that 99% of lawyers have to make the other 1% look bad.
- arjie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+14Actually, most of the Linux kernel is being built by people from companies like Novell and RedHat being paid to work on it. I agree though, article is *****.
- zendez, on 08/12/2008, -1/+14I'm a Lawyer (Solicitor) and I ***** love Linux!
I also love to torrent and play many online games.
I hate articles like this putting us all into the same category. - FuzzyCat, on 08/12/2008, -0/+13
"...prescribed by the makers of the window manager BusyBox."
BusyBox is not a window manager. - schestowitz, on 08/12/2008, -4/+16Maybe it was a Microsoft placement. They do that.
“As discussed in our PR meeting this morning. David & I have spoken with Maureen O’Gara (based on go ahead from BrianV) and planted the story. She has agreed to not attribute the story to us….
“[…] Inform Maureen O’ Gara (Senior Editor Client Server News/LinuxGram) or John Markoff (NYT) of announcement on Aug 28, 2000. Owner dougmil (Approval received from BrianV to proceed)
“Contact Eric Raymond, Tim O’Reilly or Bruce Perrins to solicit support for this going against the objectives of the Open Source movement. Owner: dougmil [Doug Miller]. Note that I will not be doing this. Maureen O’Gara said she was going to call them so it looks better coming from her.”
(From Microsoft’s smoking guns)
http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=2007 ... - strangewill, on 08/12/2008, -1/+13Because it degree isn't actually for being a lawyer, but for being a douchebag.
- SteveMax, on 08/12/2008, -1/+12"My Mom is a lawyer"
Come on, we know everybody insults mothers here, but that was way too low. - arcticblue, on 08/12/2008, -2/+13Email I sent to the author:
Mr. Kovel,
It is quite obvious that you have not actually used Linux or know anything about what you are writing about. I am not an open source developer, but I use Linux extensively at work and know first hand that 99% of what you wrote is pure rubbish. Also, it has come to my attention that your "article" may have been Microsoft's idea. If you were a respectable man, you would retract your statements (I mean, you're only making yourself look bad with this article), actually TRY Linux and educate yourself past reading stuff on the internet, and write a real article that brings up valid points as opposed to just pushing Microsoft propaganda. If you would like, I could provide a critique of your article and show you every thing you have written that is blatantly incorrect. I know Linux is not perfect, but it is nowhere near the mess you claim it is. If you need any help with your Linux experience, I'd be more than happy to help you if it would mean you write a fair article.
---
Email I sent to the editor:
Editor,
I'd like to express my extreme disappointment in your decision to publish this article: http://legaltech.law.com/commentary-the-penguin-do ... . Not only is it blatantly incorrect, but may actually be funded by Microsoft to spread anti-Linux propaganda (http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=2007 ... . The author knows very little of which he writes and doesn't seem to try to hide it. It is painfully obvious he has only read about Linux on the internet and/or has been told what to write by others with a stake in seeing Linux and free software fail. I trust that you will look in to this matter and review the quality (or lack thereof) of this article. - inactive, on 08/12/2008, -3/+12Perhaps the lawyers feel threatened by the utter lack of profit motive in the Open Software community.
- LiquidShield, on 08/12/2008, -0/+8I agree this article was written by someone who has blatantly never installed a Linux OS ever. If they did then they must have compiled their OS from scratch which your average user would never do. Which I think is something all user would consider doing if they have the technical knowledge, and ability to do so. They would probably have a much better understanding of the OS that they are using.
Don't forget on your first comment that people that program for open source are programming because they love to program. They are doing it for free because it makes them feel good to do or learn something useful and pass that on to their fellow computer users.
The last comment. Don't for get about Featherlight linux. You can install and run the entire OS off a 32meg thumb stick. You could probably run just about any Linux distro on a old machine from the early 90's before windows 95, and it would run like a dream.
It really pisses me off when people write articles about subjects they have no knowledge in. It not only makes them look like complete retards, but jackasses as well. The reason windows is so popular is the fact that the average joe can jump on it and use with very little teaching. yes linux is getting that way to that's why Unbuntu is getting popular. - inajeep, on 08/12/2008, -0/+8Yep, usually the ass.
- iJessicaRabbit, on 08/12/2008, -3/+9Lawyers are not high atop a mountain they're the carp, the bottom feeders. There's too many lawyers in this world; we're supersaturated with them. It's the fact that the majority are driven by strictly money that ticks me off. They don't care if they ruin someone's life by going after stupid silly cases if it means more money in their pocket. If they stuck to pursuing illegal searches fine... but the world is sue happy due to their availability.
... my sister, who I love and am friends with, is a lawyer and she is also a really nice, hard working, person. - inactive, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6Half of them aspire to be lying politicians
- init100, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6And even more so against each other.
- inactive, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6In other words, just politicians.
- michnaugh1, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6I am an attorney (criminal defense) and I used Ubuntu 8.04 as my work OS for about 6 months. By and large it was a very nice experience. I was able to fully function an office with Linux. I tracked billable time with Gnu Cash, did plenty of motions and memos in Open Office and email/calendaring with Thunderbird with Lightning. There were little annoyances that came up from time to time. For the most part, they were media related. As a long time OS X user, I found that I was much more comfortable putting together a presentation or edit audio and video with OS X. I've since migrated back to OS X for work because my MacBook Pro is exponentially faster than the old Toshiba I was running Hardy on, but I do continue to use Hardy at home.
As with all OS discussions, the moral of the story is use what is most comfortable for you.
For full disclosure, though, I have been using the various iterations of Ubuntu since Hoary so it's not like I jumped into this blind. - bobby167, on 08/12/2008, -1/+6Liars oops Lawyers can do anything, if they get profit out of it.
- CircleFusion, on 08/12/2008, -0/+5My sister-in-law works for a tax attorney that uses Linux. Evidently, her (the tax attorney's) son is a computer geek and he set everything up for her. I don't know the specific applications that she uses, aside from OpenOffice, but I do know that she's quite happy with it.
I've been meaning to get more details from my sis-n-law about it, or even get in touch with the attorney's son to ask him, but I've been too busy. - init100, on 08/12/2008, -0/+5"The good news is that legal greed is used to leverage attorneys to represent their clients to the best of their ability, or bill a lot of hours trying."
The bad news is that their greed will make them try to stir up more trouble and create more animosity between the conflicting parties instead of doing their best to move for a quick and amicable settlement. - indymike, on 08/12/2008, -2/+6Anyone who is greedy will struggle with open source. Sharing for mutual benefit makes no sense to them. Like it or not, the law profession has a lot of greedy people. The good news is that legal greed is used to leverage attorneys to represent their clients to the best of their ability, or bill a lot of hours trying.
- elementop, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4Not just that, but having been frustrated by so called "professionals" in a number of fields over the years, I feel much more comfortable with DIY anymore. DIY O/S install vs. from the factory? Yep, every single time, so I don't have to waste my valuable time removing all of the crapware that comes bundled with your shiny new PC. DIY auto repair? **** yes! I used to own two Eagle Talons. First one threw a clutch, so I pulled it all apart and installed a ACT 2100. The clutch ran great from then on. Second Talon threw a clutch, and I decided to have a professional shop replace it, since 1) I didn't really have the time to do it again on the second car (it took me two weeks for the first car, what with waiting for parts and squeezing in an hour or two after work), 2) I didn't really have two weeks to spend waiting for the car, and I thought the shop could do it quicker, and 3) I figured replacing the clutch in the first Talon didn't really save any money over having a shop do it. End result? This clutch only lasted a year, it cost me way more than the DIY repair, it took every bit as long as doing it myself and I didn't get the upgrades I installed when I did the clutch in the first car. I've got more examples, if you need...
Yeah, I'll take DIY over a "professional" install every single frikken time. - init100, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4I agree, that article was completely *****. It's almost the worst I've read since someone pointed me to ShelleyTheRepublican:
http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/category/educa ...
Their most hilarious piece were probably when they compared Red Hat Linux 3.0 (released in May 1996) and Windows Server 2003 and concluded that Linux sucks:
http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/2006/05/03/lin ...
Note: The site is obviously a troll/joke. They previously had a fine-print text on the site saying so, but it was removed some time ago. - Feldon, on 08/12/2008, -1/+5 /clap
- init100, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4What clock? Oh, you mean that I must activate Javascript (running NoScript)? No thanks.
- alexforcefive, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4get the impression someone thought you were talking about THIS article? :D
- paulsmith288, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4damm commies / hippies / random uneducated abuse statement
- arcticblue, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3Got a reply:
Thank you for your response to the blog posting "The Penguin Doesn't Fly." The author has addressed the facts that you reference below as "blatantly Incorrect" and that were identified in the blog posting (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200808090 ... at Groklaw (http://www.groklaw.net/index.php).
To wit:
1. The author's reference to the post on the Mandriva support site that has gone unanswered: http://expert.mandriva.com/question/101264.
2. The author acknowledged that a grammar checker extension is available in Open Office (http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/ ...
I have reposted the corrected version of the commentary.
The provenance of "The Penguin Doesn't Fly" does not rest with any other entity or individual, but solely with the author's experience in attempting to use Linux in his law office. Our site policy prevents us from publishing vendor-written or vendor-sponsored articles.
Law.com's Legal Technology section (http://www.law.com/tech) and blog (http://legaltech.law.com) is in the business of publishing news, information, and commentary on technology that affects lawyers and the legal profession. In the past, we have covered open source software and Linux (http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleL ... and we will continue to do so with future updates from Linux World and the open source community.
Thank you again for your time and interest.
Respectfully,
Sean Doherty - theghoul, on 08/12/2008, -2/+5"Why Linux don't like lawyers"
- pezholio, on 08/12/2008, -2/+5http://legaltech.law.com/commentary-the-penguin-do ...
Any website with a clock on it immediately has no credibility in my eyes (apart from the BBC homepage, but there were sound design reasons behind doing so, not just "OMG we can have a clock!!!") - StanBeer, on 08/12/2008, -2/+5You mean to say there's no money in writing!!???
- WoollyMittens, on 08/12/2008, -1/+4IT jobs in Melbourne?
Software patents are invalid where I live. Just try and stop me from giving away my stuff for free. Muhahaha. :) - CCmachined, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3because Linux is worth it ;p
really, what we all need is for them to shift their attention to some packages Linux is lacking... in particular a good video editor. sure we have ffmpeg etc, but it's not really good enough for proper editing. nothing close to iMovie exists on Linux. - mahler, on 08/12/2008, -1/+4They actually have a really good point: "So for those inclined to try Linux for free, the break even point is about 15 billable minutes, far less time than is needed to actually install it, assuming that you find a deal for a computer without a proprietary OS."
They are absolutely right about this. As long as Linux is not bundled with enough Desktop PCs, rich people can't waste their time in searching for a windows-free computer to save a few hundred dollars. But the large majority of people don't earn $300 per hour, so their argument doesn't work for the rest of the population.
Their statement: "Linux on a Desktop PC (currently) doesn't save money for people with an income of $X00 dollar / hour" is not something that hurts the image of Linux. - TwiceHephaestus, on 08/12/2008, -5/+8Yes, because clearly all lawyers are evil villains, high atop their black towers on Murder Mountain. You're right, let's just stop paying them money- that way when you get arrested after an illegal search, you won't have anyone to defend you in court.
.. Just sayin'. My Mom is a lawyer, and she's a really nice, hard working, person. - Kenzan, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2You know, people might actually listen to what you have to say but for the fact that every thing you wrote wasn't mired in hateful sarcastic negativity.
- Midtowner, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2It is interesting that the article accuses the author of creating a straw man when he is doing so himself. Making sweeping generalizations about lawyers is about as accurate as making sweeping generalizations about people in the IT or programming industries -- in other words, not accurate at all.
As for init's comment regarding the evil-ness of lawyers, would he prefer that anyone accused of a crime simply be locked up for being accused of the crime? Does he actually think police and prosecutors do their jobs correctly all the time? That rights are never violated? That the innocent are never accused? How terribly naive. - nybble41, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2MS Office's grammar check, in my experience anyway, was far more trouble than it was worth more often than not. As for envelopes:
http://www.tutorialsforopenoffice.org/tutorial/Pri ... - Biznarie, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2From second link.
"...so instead we downloaded a small shareware productivity utility called “Bonzi Buddy”?."
I remember that it was spyware lol - mooninite, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2Yep, I have. Look at the vendor lock-in it's given you. Super effective!
- Prosequi, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2That does not make much sense; lawyers exist on both sides of the equation and while defense lawyers generally do not bill at the same rate as plaintiff's attorneys there is still plenty to go around. Second, large software companies as a group lobby for weaker interpretations of patents because they are sued so often by smaller companies/individuals; the free software developers are not without fault here.
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