What is Digg?481 Comments
- grumpyrain, on 03/26/2008, -10/+513Because Linux isn't a file system.
- jsd8cc, on 03/26/2008, -8/+103(for those who don't get it: Linux itself isn't a file system - ext3, XFS, etc. are file systems used by Linux, just as FAT and NTFS are the file systems used by Windows)
- praveenmarkandu, on 03/26/2008, -3/+82the degree of fragmentation in linux depends on what kind of filesystem is in use.
- skektek, on 03/26/2008, -8/+83A better question is: why does Windows *still* fragment its files?
- Philluminati, on 03/26/2008, -17/+92Linux has a lot of cool tricks like this. You guys might also be interested in LVM (Logical Volume Management) where physical disks can be put into groups and the file system can be put over the top of the group rather than directly against the disk or partition. So if you had a 250GB hard disk and a 100GB Hard disk, in Windows, the biggest partition you can have is 250GB (the whole of the largest disk) where as in Linux you can add them to a "volume group" and then have the equivalent of one 350GB disk. You can also modify these groups on the fly while the machine is running and the files are being shared out on the network, so if you run out of disk space you can put another hard disk into your server and extend the size of the partition on the fly :-)
- bassgoonist, on 03/26/2008, -1/+68Mirror: (Google cache) http://72.14.205.104/search?hs=sUq&hl=en&lr=&c2cof ...
- larsalan, on 03/26/2008, -10/+71linux is a good one
- kenobi, on 03/26/2008, -1/+33windows can do LVM kind of stuff, called dynamic disks, but is only supported in things like windows server 2003, xp pro, vista enterprise and ultimate. as where LVM is free and available to all linuxes :)
- sark666, on 03/26/2008, -1/+32that's showing where the toc ends.
- czeman, on 03/26/2008, -8/+36Yet another digger that talks about something he has not taken the time to educate himself on. There are thousands of applications that run on Linux. Linux is a great replacement for Windows. I have several specialty programs (programming software for industrial control systems) on my Windows box that could even run on my Linux box using a program called wine. Now, add the number of Windows programs that will run under wine, and the list of programs that will run under Linux just grew even larger! So, Linux will actually run more programs than Windows.
- caerwyn, on 03/26/2008, -0/+26Journalling has little to nothing to do with fragmentation. Avoiding fragmentation is a matter of space-selection, file moving and intelligent small-file and tail-packing algorithms.
- c0nv1ct, on 03/26/2008, -0/+26Sorry, that has nothing to do with extended partitions. But one could use Dynamic Disks, which is similar to LVM on linux, to create a volume that spans across both drives to create a single 350gb volume. You could even do a 200GB software raid0 with dynamic disks with that setup, among other configurations.
- carl25, on 03/26/2008, -1/+25ok, you basically taught how to clear his ram. Not arrange blocks on his hard drive
- chingy1788, on 03/26/2008, -3/+26I use something called JKDefrag
http://www.kessels.com/JkDefrag/ - saynt, on 03/26/2008, -2/+23Read and consider before you install...
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=86226 - Tgg161, on 03/26/2008, -2/+22Even though I have no plans to switch to Linux, this is an excellent description of what fragmentation is and what defragmenting does.
- Planets, on 03/26/2008, -0/+20Gesundheit.
- buddyw, on 03/26/2008, -4/+22This is a good description of fragmentation, but he does not make his point because it is not true.
There is no such thing as a file system that doesn't need defragmenting unless it has a online - background defragmenting built into it. Under normal circumstances I would say that ext3 is more resistant to fragmentation than many other file systems, but it is not fragmentation-proof by any means. If the file system is old enough, has limited free space, and/or has many continuous write operations (like in voice/video recording) it WILL GET FRAGMENTED.
This is why ext4 is going to have online defragmentation built in.
Microsoft tried to sell us this doesn't-need-to-be-defragmented crap with NT, and it's just that - crap. If you use your file system hard it needs to be defragmented - period. That's why they started including a mini version of Diskeeper with the OS.
I am a full time Linux user (except at work). I like ext3 - it is rock solid, and it is what I use, but in some ways NTFS is actually better. They had a lot of good ideas when they built it. Many are still not being used by Windows. But it's proprietary so I generally avoid it. I can't wait for EXT4
Also, stay away from anything that starts with FAT*. - skylard, on 03/26/2008, -5/+23Talking about defragmenting it seems the site has been frag'd.
- Gorgamel, on 03/26/2008, -0/+17^^ Looks like you caught one
- robz0rz, on 03/26/2008, -3/+20You don't need to defrag in order to reformat :o) Just pop in a Linux live CD or your Windows install CD, they'll do the trick. If you really meant defragging though, I think you have enough options already from the other replies. Myself, I just use the standard windows defragging tool.
- oldhick, on 03/26/2008, -16/+33You just don't know how to use Windows my friend. All of this is possible and more! Also, there are always trade offs. I'm not saying one approach is right or one is wrong, but the linux file system wastes more space by providing room for file growth. Linux rocks, but fragmentation isn't necessarily a terrible thing.
- vladkov, on 03/26/2008, -3/+18What I learned: don't use hostmonster.
"Using static .html documents instead of painful .php scripts will practically eliminate CPU usage." Wow. Useful advice. - tyrione, on 03/26/2008, -3/+18In the UNIX world one can say, "Go fsck yourself" and not be too offended.
- joewill, on 03/26/2008, -2/+16What do you mean there isn't much stuff that runs on linux
have you used linux before? if the answer is no, then dont open your mouth about it. - brisbin33, on 03/26/2008, -4/+18good article, but i still can't figure out the random TOC from xd to zd on 7 of his 12 pictures... thoughts?
- paidhima, on 03/26/2008, -0/+13Holy hell... I had no idea.
- groverblue, on 03/26/2008, -1/+14I still use ReiserFS.
- mazerrackham, on 03/26/2008, -0/+13LVMs can do RAID-esque striping/mirroring/parity, but the core functional of an LVM is to pool disk resources and then carve out volumes to mount from that pool. If you only have a single RAID array presenting one LUN then there is no functional benefit to LVM, but when you add more LUNs it becomes useful. Imagine that you ran out of space on your array -- how would you fix it? Under an LVM you can add a second LUN (from another RAID array / SAN / whatever) and add it to the same disk pool as the first one, and now you can grow your existing filesystems onto that extra storage.
- ba5e, on 03/26/2008, -4/+17I like defragging in windows, its satisfying but I like more when I switch to my Ubuntu Install on the same machine and there is no defragging!
- gudnbluts, on 03/26/2008, -0/+13Now would be a bad time to discuss trips to Bosnia.
- panicofficer, on 03/26/2008, -2/+14Strangely, I was just asking myself this yesterday. Great timing.... saved me the search.
- copperhead, on 03/26/2008, -6/+18Suspended.
- andycr512, on 03/26/2008, -0/+12It doesn't waste space. Both can use up all the space if needed, but Linux pads the files more so they are less likely to be fragmented. If your disk gets filled to over the point of the "comfort zone" of 85%, it simply starts fragmenting just as Windows started doing the day you started using it. The only argument I can see for the Windows approach against the Linux approach is that the first files written in the Windows approach will be a little faster to access, but that advantage disappears as soon as you start using the disk heavily for about a day. The "wasted space" in Linux (padding area) will be used up if needed - it's not wasted - it's just kept for the file closest to it for as long as it can be to speed things up, but is used as soon as new space is exhausted.
- svivian, on 03/26/2008, -1/+13Don't know why charlescva is being dugg down, he's absolutely right. RTFA, etc...
It's actually Windows that "logically" places files neatly in order, leading to worse defragmentation. - Stradenko, on 03/26/2008, -1/+12sudo touch /dev/breasts
- joewill, on 03/26/2008, -1/+12a journaled file system does not mean files will not get fragmented
ext2 is not journaled and it does not suffer from the problems of fragmentation - andycr512, on 03/26/2008, -0/+11Yes, actually, you can run office in Linux.
- filefly, on 03/26/2008, -0/+11filefly@chromium:~$ touch /dev/breasts
touch: cannot touch '/dev/breasts': Permission denied - capiCrimm, on 03/26/2008, -0/+10umount /women && sudo make sandwich
- shakin, on 03/26/2008, -0/+10That's not how Linux filesystems work at all. Ext3 tries to avoid fragmentation by placing files on the disk intelligently. I think ext3 has a 4KB cluster size by default, which is the same as NTFS. XFS uses delayed allocation and b+ trees to help it make more efficient allocation requests and avoid fragmentation.
- snowpatrol, on 03/26/2008, -0/+10Well, after all the proof you provided, who could argue with you....
- leszek, on 03/26/2008, -0/+10The fact that the filesystem doesn't need to defrag has nothing to do with the fact that the filesystem is a journaling filesystem or not.
ext2 (which is ext3 without journaling) need as much defrag as ext3
if you don't know what is journaling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journaling_file_syste ... - toxictonic, on 03/26/2008, -3/+13http://www.defraggler.com/
- esc27, on 03/26/2008, -4/+14Because it originated as a single user OS when hard drive space was much more limited. NTFS is old by current standards, but the Microsoft developers haven't managed to develop a new system yet and won't (or can't due to licensing or technical issues) adopt an existing one. My understanding is that Microsoft doesn't have all the talented people it needs to support all the projects it would like and so projects like this don't get much support, especially when NTFS works well enough.
- TheZorch, on 03/26/2008, -0/+9Windows Defrag is basically a lite version of Disk Keeper. Use JKDefrag with the JKDefrag GUI frontend, its way better.
- inactive, on 03/26/2008, -2/+11Its not total BS. All file systems suffer fragmentations, true, but some MUCH worse than others. I'm not so sure it accurately describes WHY, But still.
- bejayel, on 03/26/2008, -0/+9Have you ever tried the ext3 drivers for windows? It crashes every few seconds while accessing any ext3 disk, like HARD crashes. That was my experience with them at least.
- rabiddawgr, on 03/26/2008, -0/+9wrong. sure ssd's will theoretically be faster at random access, but they still get fragmented. Its exactly the same idea as hard disk platter. You've never heard of memory fragmentation?
- VinceNoir, on 03/26/2008, -1/+10Why you're being dug down I have no idea. But it's true folks, you can run the ext3 filesystem on Windows. Kind of like trying to put lipstick on a pig and be a pimp, but it's technically possible...
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