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115 Comments
- oGMo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+55None. This is the stupidest assertion yet. RedHat desktop users were bringing in precisely no revenue. RedHat Enterprise customers are their cash cow. Unfortunately, simple business strategy, like "making money," and concepts like "cost-benefit analysis", appear too difficult for some bloggers to comprehend.
Besides, Fedora Core is better than the RedHat desktop distros ever were, and it's updated quarterly. If you want support you can still buy it. What, exactly, is the problem? - joelito, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39I really don't think redhat will go belly up because of Ubuntu.
This sounds more like wishfull thinking in the part of the author. - Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26What is this guy smoking?
"...thousands of system administrators who now use Ubuntu Linux rather than Red Hat Linux" - where did that statistic come from? Ubuntu is the cool Linux to run on your home PC right now but they have a long way to go before they can challenge RHEL.
As for Novell, a quote from a recent Reuters story - "Industry analysts said Red Hat continues to gain market share against Novell". Novell Linux has been a pathetic failure so far. - millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Redhat isn't going anywhere. It would be a shame if they did; as they wrote and pioneered many of the open-source technologies that all Linux distributions use. Yeah, the "big bad corporation" that Redhat is has written software without proprietary copyright, including...
- Metacity
- Xorg
- Nautilus
- glibc
- Ext3 filesystem
- SELinux
- Many drivers that the Linux community had trouble with
Cite: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions
In fact all of Redhat's RHEL is open-source. They just charge for support, and part of support are the binaries from the source code. OSS doesn't require the release of binaries, but you are free to compile RHEL code into binaries yourself and even use it in a corporate environment without penalties from Redhat. You just won't get support.
Novell pioneers some technologies such as Xen, but SuSE (which was merely bought out by Novell) is primarily all Redhat-written code with the addition of YaST and other polishings.
Ubuntu is to Debian what SuSE is to Redhat. Ubuntu is just a polished version of Debian, with a fanboy following that would make Apple blush. All three of the major Linux flavors (DEB, RPM, Gentoo) have a calling. DEB-based distros are the lightest (least bloat) and easiest to upgrade/maintain, but RPM-based distros are generally more polished and have the best hardware detection.
I would bet Novell/SuSE would die out before Redhat does, and if Redhat does then SuSE would die with it. - Obsidian743, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20I agree with oGMo. Red Hat didn't do anything wrong and, in fact, helped their desktop product, Fedora Core, by using it as a spring board for Red Hat Enterprise.
Fedora Core is still a great desktop and can be used as a great enterprise server so IMO this is just another excuse to glorify Ubuntu and get all the fan boys riled up. - JQP123, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Red Hat has a couple of things that Ubuntu doesn't: 1) a sustainable business plan. Ubuntu is secure as long a Mark Shuttleworth continues dumping his personal money into it but like all good things, one way or another, this will come to an end. What happens after that is anybody's guess. 2) Red Hat has the support of IBM and functions almost as an IBM subsidiary. If they ever need money, IBM will give it to them.
The above endows Red Hat with something that is highly prized in corporate circles --- at least the appearance of stability and security. Something that Ubuntu is still lacking. - joelito, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13The detail the Author forgets is that those who want a stable version of RHEL with a good community, already have CentOS.
Now, what I mean is that, those sysadmins who wanted to have a stable Red Hat Linux running on a server without paying, could do it because Red Hat makes all it's sources available from their repositories... And that's exactly what the CentOS guys do - kazem, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13We use Redhat Enterprise in our lab. Whether or not you think it's a good or bad decision, our entire Physics department uses Redhat Enterprise. They provide good support, and we haven't had any problems over the past few years. I'm sure other Linux versions provide the same support, but I don't think Ubuntu is going to cause Redhat too much trouble. Sure, Redhat may not be strong in the desktop market, but the desktop market doesn't pay. Right?
- marthaphoebe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11if RedHat dies, then one of the strongest open source models dies too.
- joe90210, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9is there any evidence to support his claims or is he just talking about of his ass? I really really doubt there are very many system admins out there who decided to use Ubuntu in the workplace, it's not exactly designed for it..
- suomi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8This bloke is off his rocker...? RHEL is a trusted, enterprise ready distribution - well supported and tough as boots. I can't imagine - for ONE minute - explaining to a customer that we are going to be installing Ubuntu for them, or even Suse. RHEL is a proven product in the high availability market - configured correctly - it just keeps going... and going.
And now they own one of the premier application server tecnologies - I would say that, far from dying, RedHat is poised to make some big and important gains in the server market place. - merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"Funnily enough, they kept on chasing the mirage of thousands of soul-less corporate customers with the real money"
Yeah, 'cause that plan really failed for microsoft, didn't it?
The OS industry is a multi-billion dollar market. Getting a slice of that isn't impossible. - suomi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Errr - it is a word, from the English language, a language I would have thought you are familiar with...
Adverb
* S: (adv) queerly, strangely, oddly, funnily (in a strange manner) "a queerly inscribed sheet of paper"
Oh - jeez - now you are sniggering over 'queerly'... - celticeric, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Actually, I recently switched from Ubuntu to Fedora. I had some install problems trying to upgrade to Dapper, both for myself and for a friend's machine. I was disappointed because I really like Ubuntu, but I decided to try Fedora Core 5 for the first time. I was really impressed. I think its a great distro. Honestly, I don't think there is much difference in quality between Fedora, openSuse and Ubuntu. Each has it its own peculiarities and advantages, but they are all exceptional products that show how far desktop linux has come! I for one am glad we have such a great variety of quality choices.
- buzzedlightyear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5in other news, palm OS leaves its handheld users to enter the server market. thousands of sysadmins everywhere are switching from unix & netware to palm os for their server needs.
- S1mba, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This article is totally off base.
#1: You don't make money off desktop user / end users. You make money off B2B contracts.
#2: Red Hat was recently rated by Money Magazine as one of the fastest growing technology companies in the country. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Dear Ubuntu users,
I take it for granted that I'm going to get modded down (because EVERYTHING offends an Ubuntu user, whether you said it or not), but what the hell, somebody, somewhere, needs to hear it:
Congratulations on the success of your wonderful distro. I know that it's hard to believe when you're all so flushed with pride at having taken your first big step into Linux, but there are, in fact limitations on your powers. For instance, Ubuntu (and it says so right here on the label) does NOT
make you bullet-proof
make you invisible (so put some pants on)
grant you the ability to walk on water
reverse the progression of any STDs
make you smarter than the president...oh, no, wait, scratch that
ward off vampires (you still need a cross for that, unless it's a Jewish vampire and then you ward it off with a star of David, and for a Pastafarian you ward it off with a fistful of linguine, etc.)
I've seen God's chosen distro come and go. I've seen it happen to Red Hat, and Debian, and Knoppix. You are next year's Gentoo fan. It will still be a major distro....but that is all, a distro.
In short, get over yourselves. - jaybob007, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Looks like another UBUNTU biased article... I guess this means that Novell, Mandriva and all other Linux manufacturer's will "go bust" because of the almighty UBUNTU
Red Hat abandoned their desktop users? Has anyone heard of Fedora Core 5? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Marked as inaccurate and not Dugg. This article is based on wishful thinking and completely arbitrary numbers. Numbers like african elephants tripling their herd over the last 6 months.
- serpicolugnut, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14I don't think Ubuntu is the real problem for Red Hat. It's Novell. SLED/SLED is much better than anythnig Red Hat has done to date. And it's aimed squarely at Red Hats target markets. Ubuntu is making great inroads on individuals desktops at home, but I don't think it's really cracking the corporate space just yet. That could change with LTS, but it will take a year to assess.
- S1mba, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Oh, and..
#3: Unlike Ubuntu, Red Hat is not all about Linux. Red Hat is about providing full stack solutions for business IT needs (this is why they bought JBoss).
Bottom line is you don't make money off Linux. You make money off solutions. And that's what Red Hat is providing, and Ubuntu is not. - mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I have to totally call BS on this one. Red Hat will be around for a while for several reasons:
1) Corporate America doesn't give a rats a$$ about desktop Linux. I work for a VERY large bank, and was on their review board for desktop Linux. Bottom line, no one is ready to support it, and thus it wont be an option for most
2) RHEL is pretty much the "defacto" Linux most Big Business uses. Talk to anyone in any large company experimenting with Linux and I bet they will say they use RHEL, and most likely not even the latest.
3) Big Business is slow to move. I mean, how long has RHEL been around? But most large companies are just now beginning to deploy servers running RHEL. This is pretty much across the board, from the people I have talked too.
4) Big Business doesn't trust new comers. You know why IBM is still around? Mostly because they have some sort of track record, be it good or bad. Lets face it, Tivoli T/EC is the WORST event management tool I have ever seen, but I'd be damned if it isn't the most used one by large companies simply because IBM supports it and its been around forever.
I, like most, love to see the underdog win...its part of the American spirit. But, if you think someone like Citi Bank or Stanley Morgan would start ripping out RHEL for Ubuntu, you are living in a dream world filled with lolly pops and bubblegum. - jsd8cc, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12I've actually switched from Fedora to Ubuntu.
- metallikop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Don't digg this up. This is totally inaccurate.
- CingleMolt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Red Hat has more market share in Germany (the original home of Suse) than Novell has worldwide...
Damn! Wish I had a source to link to... I can't remember where I heard this now... - airencracken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Who else here is sick of the Ubuntu fanbois?
*raises hand* - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5We've been running Centos on our Asterisk PBX for a year and a half now, and I couldn't be happier with it. Just recently we purchased 2 licenses for Redhat Enterprise, just for support contracts (I guess). I expect it to be identical..since it is from the ground up.
- ultrasoul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4http://www.duggmirror.com/linux_unix/Why_Red_Hat_will_go_bust_because_of_Ubuntu/
- thepharmacist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3bury.
- Tsuroerusu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ thepharmacist
"The thing is, unless you're a young person willing to spend a lot of time at your computer to simply get it to work correctly, linux isn't an option as a desktop OS."
First off, on modern distributions it's only stuff like installing extra codecs and 3D drivers, which you have to do for Windows as well. Second, I think it's A MUCH bigger waste of time sitting around and making sure that you got all one million security updates installed, making your anti-virus/anti-spyware, and lastly, making sure you don't click the wrong link in an email, or doesn't use the wrong browser.
I just wanna use my computer in my daily life, not put on my hacker hat ALL THE TIME, I love having it on during weekends and really geek out, but when I got homework to do, I don't want an OS that requires hours and hours of maintenance per week.
"I tried installing linux a couple years back, and gave up when it told me that I needed to write configuration scripts to get my ethernet card working."
I tried installing Windows a couple of years ago, and it wouldn't even install because I was using a SATA hard drive, after spending over two hours figuring out why, out of frustration I just stuck in Mandrake 9.2 and it installed without a single problem.
"Then, answering to the hype, I tried Ubuntu a couple months ago, and as soon as I saw that I'd need to play around with scripts and command lines to get my stuff working, I promptly gave up."
Well, you CAN use commands to get things going, but in most distributions, you have GUIs for everything, in Ubuntu you can just start up Synaptic, enable the so-called "universe" installation source, and do a search for say "mad" which is a very very good, but patent violating, MP3 decoder which can't be installed out of the box legally. In SUSE, maybe not 10.1, as the package manager is completely broken without installing a bunch of updates, but in every past and future SUSE release, you can open up it's YaST Control Center, select installation source, select Add, then "Specify URL...", put in "http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/packman/", click OK, wait for it to be added, then click Finish, go into Software Management, search for maybe "mad", because we like violating patent law! :D
"I like to *use* my computer, not to fiddle with it for hours just to get on my wireless network. And I'm certain that I'm not alone."
No you are not alone, I don't wanna fiddle around all the time either, which is why I use Linux and BSD, because the security of Windows is just fundementally broken, period.
And yes, wireless can be problematic in Linux, but I have had just as many issues with it in Windows because the stupid driver was poorly written, I rather just buy the right wireless card, plug it into my Linux box, and just install the madwifi driver and have things just work rather than having to fiddle with crappy wireless managers, installing crappy drivers, and spending thousands of years dealing with firewalls causing problems because I wanna avoid being rooted in the first three minutes of entering a place like Starbox.
In case you wanted to know, just get a D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G DWL G650 PCMCIA card if you're on a laptop, or the D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G DWL G650 PCI card if you're on a desktop computer, and things is so easy to deal with, on Ubuntu it's just a matter of installing the madwifi driver package, if it's not already (If an Ubuntu developer is reading this, please be aware that by including the madwifi driver, you're violating the GPL, as the driver is partly proprietary), on SUSE you just add "http://madwifi.org/suse" as an installation source, open up Software Management and install madwifi and madwifi-kmp-. - Obsidian743, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5They sure as hell aren't going belly up with companies like IBM and Oracle certifying their products. I guarantee you'll never see Oracle or DB2 "certified" on Ubuntu. You're not going to see big players like Sysix, Unisys, 1&1 and other hardware/hosting companies providing professional services and expensive hardware running Ubuntu.
High availability means paying for proven, supportable products. - Obsidian743, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6As far as I'm concerned they're just about equal, SEL and RHEL. It's all the same, only different.
- p1mpjuice, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Is it just me or is this article not only inaccurate, but also has a very poorly worded title. "Why Red Hat will go bust because of Ubuntu" I mean, this headline fails at sentence structure.
- ucg1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Ubuntu is great both on the server and desktop, and I use it whenever I can. But, Red Hat and Novell have one thing that Ubuntu doesn't: their enterprise distro is certified and supported for use with Oracle. That's just one example, I'm sure there are more. Maybe if Ubuntu gets certified for these types of applications, it can really go up against Red Hat/SUSE.
- eelco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Fedora rocks. Period. So what is the problem?
- jpbleuu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3ah i didn't realize it was a real word. learn something new everyday.
- DCstewieG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@jimfinn
That's what the green thumbs up is for. Your post, however, is what the red thumbs down is for. - jpbleuu, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6yeah i tried fedora, i like ubuntu better
- ubuntudemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Mark Shuttleworth's reply :
http://digg.com/tech_news/Mark_Shuttleworth_Rumours_of_Red_Hat_s_demise_are_somewhat_exaggerated - mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hahahahahaha, you really think that its about "freedom"? You read too many comic books or something.
Lets break it down...we live in a capitalistic society, and people do things to get stuff in return. That return may be money, fame, favors, etc. The majority of projects that hit the OSS community are usually started for one of two reasons. Either the person just thought it was cool or they needed it and it wasn't around. (There is a third, but its a hybrid of #2...something exists but it sucks or doesn't do 100% of what they need).
Eventually, most projects get some sort of funding from some entity to keep it going. After all, someone has to pay for the developer's Bawls and Cheetos.
The spirit of OSS isn't about freedom, its about open disclosure and community effort. Most of the companies that deal in OSS and make a decent living at it have all realized this, and setup their profit structure to take advantage of their support infrastructure.
To think that money doesn't play into the decisions of the OSS community is to be totally naive. - mbabauer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'll +digg this. Basically what I said up top, only worded slightly different. I see a LOT of decisions that are made not because its technically correct, but rather politically correct.
Remember, it all comes down to what the man/woman holding the purse strings thinks. If you don't have funding, its not going to fly. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2All I'm saying is that there are neat things going on that aren't specifically Ubuntu related. Does it get frontpage? No because "Ubuntu" isn't in the title. And I never said I don't use it because it's "trendy". I did use it months ago, but stopped due to numerous reasons. At least I've tried it before I bashed it - and for valid reasons.
Probably Ubuntu's greatest feature is that it can be installed by someone with half a brain. Maybe that's why it's so popular. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This article is worthless...no digg.
This is gonna get buried to hell, I know, but Ubuntu is INCREDIBLY overrated IMO...you hear almost nothing about any other distro out there. It's becoming way too "trendy". I think I'll stick to my Gentoo and FC5 boxes, thank you very much. - ganzhimself, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2*raises hand*
- ganzhimself, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Here's how to get on the front page on Digg.
1. Post story about Ubuntu
2. ???
3. Front page!
Seriously... Ubuntu fanboys are ***** annoying. More annoying than Apple fanboys. And that's really hard to do. Linux (in any flavor) will never be a viable desktop OS until there is a distro that is just as easy to use (for non-techie types) as Windows is. Who wants to compile binaries, hunt for drivers, and deal with some of the archaic crap that is still around in Linux? I do use Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows, and IMHO, in terms of user friendliness:
OS X > Windows > Linux - Tsuroerusu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ nofxjunkee
"sorry, I ditched rpm in my early days of using linux and now that I know Portage and apt I have no desire to ever use an RPM distro again. every time I ask if things have changed, I get no answer. what's RPM like these days? if it's fixed then I would consider trying fedora, but I'm happy with gentoo and ubuntu."
Oh dude, it's like night and day! RPM is painless these days, it's no harder to deal with than Debian is, to tell you the truth I havn't had a single dependency issue in over 1½ years now.
Comparing the command "rpm" to "apt-get" is never a fair comparison, it would be the same to compare "dpkg" to "yum" or "smart". "apt-get" is kind of a wrapper for dpkg, it solves the dependencies and downloads packages etc. etc. and after that, it hands the package that it has downloaded to dpkg which is the thing that outputs the "Setting up" messages. I don't know of anything considering to be the "official" wrapper for RPM, there are various which work very well, Red Hat, and this includes Fedora, uses YUM out of the gate, there's also a new one, which has been in development for two years now and works very well, called Smart which actually also works on Debian, and that is very apt-get-like, example: "smart update && smart upgrade".
SUSE has it's own package management, which currently still feels sorta alpha/beta, but it's getting better and should be very cool once it's solid. Mandriva has their urpmi system, which again is not too big a deal to use. Generally you can use Smart on all RPM-based distros, and it's a really good way to install stuff.
If you like how quick apt-get can be, you may be disaappointed with YUM, as it doen't that a lot of information so it has to kinda regenerate it everytime it is being used, but then try Smart, I think the packages for it is in the Fedora Extras repository. - ucg1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Obsidian743
"I guarantee you'll never see Oracle or DB2 "certified" on Ubuntu."
You're wrong about DB2, as the previous poster mentioned. Oracle not supporting Ubuntu gives Red Hat and Novell a definite advantage, but saying it will "never" be certified is rather naive. I think there's a good possibility it will be. Ubuntu 6.06 is their "enterprise" version which will be supported for the next 5 years. It's a good candidate for running Oracle, especially since there is a company supporting it, if only it were certified.
Oracle has already made available Ubuntu/Debian packages for installing Oracle 10g Express Edition. Granted that was just some developers making things easier for themselves.
I've also seen large hosting companies supporting Ubuntu. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Me me me!
-An Arch Linux User - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2sorry, I ditched rpm in my early days of using linux and now that I know Portage and apt I have no desire to ever use an RPM distro again. every time I ask if things have changed, I get no answer. what's RPM like these days? if it's fixed then I would consider trying fedora, but I'm happy with gentoo and ubuntu.
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