What is Digg?189 Comments
- lane.montgomery, on 10/12/2007, -22/+105@estvir
I can give you a good reason for both.
OSX is for Apple hardware. Price is the main barrier here.
Linux needs to compromise on their "all open" values to allow for closed source drivers to interact with the kernel and on their "my distro is right and yours is wrong" mentality.
You see, Windows is like the US. The dollar spends anywhere, no matter what state your in.
Linux is like Iraq. It's under attack from the US and the only thing that unites the tribes is a hatred for the other tribes and the US.
OSX is like a western European country. It's expensive to live there and they think they are better than the US.
Sorry to get off on a tangent, but my point is that the Linux community and the OSX community are perfectly happy with where they are at and don't really have a strong desire to become *the* dominant operating system.
PS- I just flamed so many things I'm sure this comment is going to get burried in no time flat. - nxusername, on 10/12/2007, -10/+89Linux does not want to be Windows. Linux does not want to assimilate Windows. Windows is NOTHING that Linux wants to be.
Linux just wants to be free. Take it or leave it, Linux is what it is. - Misos, on 10/12/2007, -3/+54"if it's not very far, why hasn't some linux distribution, or macos managed to overtake it in the past 10 years, with their [apparent] superior operating systems ?"
Linux wasn't created with the average user in mind. Only in the fast few years have serious efforts been made to make it usable by nearly anyone.
MS has been targetting the average user for decades. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -18/+66since when is the market necessarily dominated by the superior product? .... your not too bright estvir...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+37Opps..just noticed its an article by Rob Enderle... Professional ignoramous....Rob has been putting the "anal" in analyst for many years now.
READ ALL ABOUT THIS RETARD ANALYST HERE:
http://enderle.iwethey.org/
From his BIO:
Rob Enderle, a market consultant and founder of the Enderle Group.... His clients include both SCO and Microsoft.. - bieber, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21We'll shut up and go be happy with our OS when corporations stop trying to get courts to forbid us to work on it, and hardware companies stop refusing to let us write drivers for it.
- atdigg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Thanks for info: I'm sorry I can't digg you post more than once...
Interesting that in the "Linux Community vs. SCO Battle, SCO Should Win" http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1543531,00.asp it says this:
" Enderle serves as an unpaid member of IBM's Industry Advisory Council, and his previous employer, Giga, worked with IBM. He has never worked with SCO."
Never worked with SCO? or "His clients include both SCO and Microsoft"? Or maybe he was employed by SCO after the article... interesting nevertheless. - MyNameIsLee, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20blufleth:
this is crazy...I'm probably going to get buried for this but you are a ***** moron(I'm not saying that as a Linux Zealot...I'm saying it because youre just an idiot). It doesn't take a genius to sit down and figure out how to tweak Linux to work for you. You on the other hand have to work as windows tells you to work. I hate getting caught up in all this Linux vs. Windows ***** but when people like you open their mouth I can't let it go...Anyone with half a brain can figure Linux out in a few short hours. Figuring it out is what makes it fun for real power users. I'm glad you think your OS works "pretty darn good"....you apparently have not been around for the past few years. Using windows and surfing the net together is like sticking your penis is a pool of piranhas. - heresy_fnord, on 10/12/2007, -14/+25No matter how bad vista is, no one is going to switch to Linux. Time to let those far-fetched dreams go. And whoever mentioned games, you're exactly right.
98% of games won't run on linux. Don't tell me about WINE and whatever else you run to get games and your applications to work. Until the market can all for any moron down the street to install linux and do everything they want to do, it will never be accepted. - halik, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18so because you run and and you know other people that run it, it will become a mainstream dekstop os?
And why the hell does my contextual copy and paste not work after 15 yars of development??? Try doing copy in tbird and paste in mysqlcc and see what happens.
I'm using a suse 10 box as we speak and i can guarantee you that linux won't be common on the desktop anytime soon. Between the 20 different window mangers, 40 different windows toolkits, no standard packaging system, dependancy hell and absolutely no ui standards, linux will be about the same as it's been for the past 10 years. It's free...but you get what you pay for. - st00p1d, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"Linux is for people who have a grudge against Microsoft, Unix is for people who simply love the language"
There are so many things wrong with this quote I'm speechless...
Wow. Just wow. - jessecollins, on 10/12/2007, -17/+27i have reported you as lame too
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+211) True Desktop OS
What the hell IS the definition of a "TRUE" desktop OS???? What is a FALSE one?
This guy is a first class RETARD.
>games... enough said
2) And how does that affect the Business Desktop market? NT 4 didn't have DirectX and supported ***** software rendering OpenGL only...it did JUST FINE as a desktop OS.
So was Windows NT not a "REAL" Desktop OS? - Saxonx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I've tried to get into linux, but the learning curve is to much for me. I would love nothing more than to get rid of windows. 3 things usually get to me with linux.
1. I can never install applications, I dont enjoy the tedious work of entering in URLs in the package managers when it should be done automatically, or if at least there was one place online i can get the applications that are compiled for my distro. I especially dont enjoy trying to compile from source.
2. I use a USB device to connect to the internet and have no idea how to get it to work in linux.
3. The installations are to complicated. And the GUI's can be complex.
I've used Ubuntu, Symphony OS (Beta 1), Vector Linux, DSL, SLAX...Debian, Slackware.
If anyone could suggest some good documentation or Distro that is much easier to use than these, It would be appreciated. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12
If you stuck with Ubuntu I would pretty much guarentee that lots of people in the community would help you get all your issues worked out. - EdLesMann, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17@ lane.montgomery
I have to disagree with you. Linux should NOT compromise any of its standings. It should not ever allow company control what goes into the kernel. YES! companies should make drivers for Linux...even if they are propriatry, fine. It gives the user a choice BUT they should not be allowed into the kernel itself!
I disagree with this article as well.
1) Linux does not add to the computer price as he suggests. A linspire 1.5Ghz AMD with 256MB ram and 40Gig HD cost me 160$ after tax from frys. The HP with XP, 1.2Ghz with 256MB ram and 30Gig HD was "on sale" for 350$.
The Linux community is ( IMHO ) one of the strongest communities I have ever been involved with. Yes there are fueds and there are the same issues found in any community, and maybe this is just my personal experiance but I have always had my questions and problems solved much faster then in the windows community. Hell, I had a problem last week and THE LEAD developer sent me an email...I dont think that has ever occured to me in the windows world. Even if someone decided they just had to call tech support at 85$, it is still cheaper then the 100$/hr tech support that MS charges my company...
2) Too many versions? Each "version" has a purpose and the "basic home users" wont ever care. They will go along with their Linspire, Xandros, Red Hat, or whatever just as they go along with their windows systems. The digg community knows just as well as I do that "grandma" couldnt tell you the difference bettween her old windows 98 and her new XP except that the hardware is faster. She just needs her email and internet, and that is easy enough to do on any Linux distro.
3) Excessive Zealotry? Heh, he's never to a real Linux convention has he? Yes it exists. Yes there are flame wars. How often does the average user care? none. In the Open Source community does it hurt the end user? nope. Does it help? absolutly! How many times have people made a split over a debate, each went their own way, and one way prevailed? How many corportations have decided to abondon one way, only to discover that it was too late and the perished? innumerable.
Generaly Linux ppl like other Linux ppl. I get comments everytime I wear my SuSE shirt, or my Debian hat. I dont get the critisism and hate from "elite zealots" like alot of other ppl try to make the Linux community out to be. There is just as strong evidence for these same actions in the windows world...the average user doesnt care unless the corporation chose the wrong path.
For the first time, Microsoft is no longer leading the world in innovation*. I honestly believe that Linux has the chance to step up and become the home market leader. HOWEVER it wont happen right away. Linux has a few things they need to work out. Other people have mentioned games. This is probably the biggest roadblock. Its a known fact that Gamers are pushing the desktop market, without them backing Linux it will not be a viable Desktop solution for companies producing high end systems.
Linux does have a shot. It is up to the community to push for it. Common interfaces and common ground is helping, and everyone should back them regardless of which OS they use. Even if Linux doesnt "win out" over microsoft, it will at least push Microsoft into making better products.
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_leaps_toward_KDE_GNOME_compatibility
Anyway thats my 2cents....
*My argument that Microsoft is no longer pushing innovation like they once did is not biased filth spewing out...what is vista offering that isnt already avalible? seriously!
Vectoring? Apple, KDE, and Gnome have supported vectoring for a long while ( I am of the understanding that apple had this in late 90s) and Adobe has had this support for quite sometime as well. None of them require the resources Vista will to do this either
New Commandline? While I am all for the update of DOS, 98% of the "feautres" are straight out of Linux
XML searchable filesystem? Uhh Gnome got alot of debate over that several years ago....
Updates with out reboot? How long has this been in the *nix world?
IE7? How non-standard is that again? Doesnt pass the Acid2 test and they already admitted that RSS feeds will have to be altered for it.
How many companies did they buy out for their (firewall/anti-spyware,virus scanner,ect....)?
There are many more examples, but I dont want to just troll. Microsoft has a place in this world, but they cant just sit at the top doing nothing. Anyway... - troydoogle7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I think that only way for it to be a good desktop system is if they found a way to remove terminal or at least provide gui option to do the same. Part of the reason that win98 was so successful was that it was the first major user friendly os that made users not have to use dos(except for troubleshooting)
The equation is simple add more gui and more users will use it.
The litmus test should be can you explain to your mother/girlfriend how to do something (eg share files on the network) over the phone.
Simple things like ubuntu not having a gui for samba and thus forcing users to edit config files and go into terminal is too hard for most users. Its easier to stick with windows.
Someone please come up with a gui for samba! - dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Actually, NT 4.0 *did* have DirectX, or you could download it. Version 2.0, I think.
I recall it running Total Anhillation just fine. (Awesome game, by the way.)
And as for OpenGL, well, cards that did 3D acceleration were pretty new back then when NT 4.0 came out. The successors to NT 4.0 -- XP, 2003 -- seem to support hardware 3D just fine now, certainly because there's actually a demand for it now. - KineticFlow, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I bet he never used Linux before, just heard from articles on CNET.
"Too Many Versions" is one of his reasons?
What about seven versions of Windows Vista, which LOCKS features, where desktop linux is about being smaller by including only necessary features like ubuntu? - digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Ubuntu is the closest thing to a true linux desktop in my opinion. I used it exclusively for quite some time. The only reason I stopped using it is because of games. It was just too damn difficult to constantly patchconfigure wine and the transgaming thing didn't cut it either. I'll certainly revisit it when it matures a bit, but damned if the Ubuntu teams are not making one hell of a product.
My iMac will be here in a couple days =) - x8sam8x, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Linux wont become a dominant desktop os because it is not ready for the regular user out in the real world. We here on Digg think its easy cause most of us are geeks and love this techy computer stuff. Yes I know some distros are easy to install and use but they are still a pain when something dont work then you gotta go through mundane command lines just to get stuff to work.
- stokestack, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"Games are for children. Those of us with jobs don't waste our time with games. We post on Digg instead."
And that gets modded down. Looks like stupid people have become the majority on Digg, too stupid to understand humor. - draegloth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Has anyone else noticed the trend at videogame stores over the last 3-4 years? There are many, many more games coming out for consoles than PCs. If this trend continues and PCs become more like appliances than all-in-one entertainment / work machines, are we still going to be concerned with which OS runs the most games in 5 years?
I don't like gaming consoles right now because I've spent so much on my PC and I've been playing all my games on PCs since the late 80s, but eventually the already small PC games section at EB Games will disappear and we'll all need to look to consoles for our entertainment.
At that point, where does that leave windows? Yeah, it can play games. Yeah, microsoft is using the work they've done on directx on their xbox consoles.. but when I sit down at the computer, do I still want to deal with the security issues that windows foists on me? I don't think so, unless there's another compelling reason to stick with windows other than games..
Besides, corporate customers outnumber home customers, and most of those corporations frown upon game playing in the workplace.. so it can't just be games keeping windows on top. OSX and Linux need top notch, free (or cheaper than windows) versions of business applications to supplant windows in the workplace.. Develop the apps, get a hardware vendor like dell to offer the systems with a (omg) STANDARDIZED linux distrobution, or get Apple to do something to get their systems into the mainstream, and then you'll see a shift away from windows and the microsoft tax... unless, of course, microsoft gets wind of it and changes to adapt... large companies tend not to be that nimble, though. - haxx4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Back up DVDs (k9copy) http://flavor8.com/index.php/2006/04/08/how-to-back-up-your-dvds-in-ubuntu-ii/
Setup a web server (php, mysql, webmin) http://davidwinter.me.uk/articles/2006/02/05/ubuntu-5-10-web-server-howto
Add an FTP server (proftpd) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=79588
Install VNC http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=122402
Get media codecs https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
Tons of other programs (and updates) with Automatix http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=138405
After installing ubuntu (no guide necessary..anyone could do it) you can follow the above howto's and have a fully capable PC running within a few hours. After that, there's no more maintenance you have to perform on the system. It works, and it will stay like that. There's no crapware like in Windows which you have to constantly defend against.
Of course, support for games is lacking, but for most other proprietary software there will be alternatives. - Eddible, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8How many essays/articles do we really need on how Linux will never do this that or the other?
- ArchonMagnus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Ubuntu is a great distro, especially Dapper Drake. Another good one to try is Mepis Linux--although with Mepis you may still have to "apt-get" to download packages/updates (as of the latest release version, I haven't tried the Ubuntu based Mepis).
- jambarama, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I think the main thing for OSX isn't compatibility, it is comfortability. People are comfortable in Windows, they can do what they want. Why should they change and learn a new way (however easy) of doing things?
More importantly Linux CANNOT compromise on their "all open" values to allow for closed source drivers to interact with the kernel. The moment they do that Linux is no longer free. It was designed so that if you want to see the source, you can. With binary drivers you can't. The question of device drivers is the right one, but NDAs or binary drivers are NOT the right answer. If Linux is to stay free (meaning I could make my own distribution anytime I wanted that was comparable to existing ones) there cannot be binary in the Kernel. Binary drivers are typically more buggy, more poorly written, and may have security holes no one knows about. Drivers don't have to be GPL, BSD is just fine, but binary is not.
If companies don't want to make drivers and distribute the source fine. All we need is documentation so we can make our own drivers. Reverse engineering binary drivers is a very costly option, only the most important drivers will get reverse engineered.
We do agree on one thing though - I don't think it matters if Linux goes mainstream. I'm happy using it and I'd never want anyone forced onto it. If you like your binary black boxes that "just work" (Windows & OSX, which are pretty nice OSes) - great, don't bother with Linux. But if freedom (of code, of speech, of whatever) is an issue, or you like messing around with computers, come check out Linux. - dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You seem to say `no question' about things that _are_ questioned an awful lot ...
- digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@bieber: Security through obscurity is never the way to go, though. A properly design UI should not let any old user actually click the buttons :)
- muddo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@Ugli
You sir, are a moron. - rockintom99, on 10/12/2007, -11/+15lane.montgomery:
That has to be the most accurate (if offensive :) ) analogy i have *ever* heard. - socket, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Ubuntu is so far the easiest to use Linux distro I've seen. It needs some work and has a long way to go but it's getting there.
- digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3When I was using Ubuntu, I never really needed terminal for anything except advanced things. It's just a mindset I guess, but even OS X has a terminal yet is supposed to be one of the best GUIs. On my XP machine, I use the command prompt fairly often
- digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Linspire tried this and I don't believe they've made much headway
- brainache, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13@lame.montgomery
What do you mean we think we're better than the US? We simply are! - thisnameisfake, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7The NT kernel isn't a desktop operating system either.
- meatstack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm now one application away from being windows free. Unfortunatly, Clyde has not ported GSAK to Linux yet.
I do finally have skype working.
But, to get this working the pain was...tremendous. I love the Operating system (I use Ubuntu) and it's nice to say at the end of the day that I paid for no software, and it's legal, it's honestly just not ready for prime time...
Here's the difference between getting skype working on Windows vs. Ubuntu
Windows:
1) Download Software
2) Install
3) Sign in
Linux:
1) Download software
2) the package on the site is known to be corrupt
3) open a command terminal
4) add the skype repository to your libraries
5) sudo apt-get install skype1.0.4.18_i386_apl
6) run the software
7) Does software work? No then
8) make a 14 line code change to your esd.conf file
9) create a asound.conf file in /etc/
10) change your module loader script to include the ALSA ->OSS converter
15 minutes (if that) vs. greater than 2 1/2 hours and 5 web pages to find the answer from some guru named Gandalf.
That's what's holding Linux back. Because everytime you want to do something, it's a project. - dukeinlondon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Very good article but a bit long for stating the obvious.
However, MS support for OEMs is a blatant lie. It is the OEM that has to answer customer support calls, provide on site assistance and so on.
However, the persistence of Linux as a desktop offering from so many vendors suggests to me that something new is happening. Nobody knows for sure how its going to pan out and the anihilation of Windows is not on the cards anyway but an ecosystem is emerging. Let's see. - muddo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Frebis
"A linux user complaining about the 7 versions of VISTA, all which will be similar in functionality. This as oposed to the 150 or so linux distributions, if not more(None of which work remotely similarly)?"
This is a sweeping statement that carries little meaning. What is your definition of similar functionality? Can you verify the functionality of windows at all? Verifying functionality of an operating system is a daunting task with source code. Without source code it would be far worse.
Linux's functionality is in the kernel. You can make any distribution's UI look identical to any other distribution. This does not change the functionality of the OS. There have only been 3 major kernel overhauls in the last 10 years. That aint true for Microsoft.
Each version of VISTA may or may not have the same kernel. Unless you are a developer for Microsoft, I bet that you will not have the ability to enumerate the functional differences between the releases. - niczar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"Excessive Advocacy"
Yeah, it's really killed MacOSX, hasn't it? - int19h, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@halik
If you use a modern distro, they have selected a windowmanager for you, that works just fine, and you'll not experience any trouble with dependencies. These two point alone, are better than today's Windows.
What's more, after LSB, there is a standard for packages, window toolkits and a whole lot of other components.
Linux will not be about the same now as it's been for the past 10 years, which is easily falsified by simply trying an up-to date distrobution. Try one of the popular ones at distrowatch.
Windows is overpriced, insecure, buggy, nagging, locked down and treats it's users badly. There is only one single thing that is good about Windows, and that's DirectX.
Now is a good time to try out a nice distro, and stop living in 1995.
@draegloth
I agree completely. And with the advent of good consoles, the need for DirectX diminishes. - evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Rob Enderle is a professional anti-GNU/Linux troll. He churns out one of these BS-masterpieces every week or so. He should not be taken seriously.
- sennir100, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Customer rings up tech support: "Hi, I want to type up my CV"
* Windows PC - "Sure, just point to Start + Programs + Accessories + Wordpad, and there you go"
This advice will work for any computer with windows 95+
* Linux PC - "Okay.. I'm going to need to know which version you're running, and what Window Manager you're running." "Can you see a little foot in the bottom left? OK, how about a little red hat? No, okay, a little orange circle thing with dots? No, okay, how about a terminal.. type vi..."
Sure. - bieber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If OEM's would pick an easy to use GNU/Linux distro and preinstall it with all the appropriate settings set already on the machines they sold, it _would_ just work. Do you think the average user can install and configure Windows, either? Hell, my Windows XP SP1 disk doesn't even have a graphical installer.
- eddyc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I know what ya mean and I have tried some of the audio distros but compared to the other more mainstream software it blows!!
I would love to use linux but I cant , the software just aint there, this could be a chicken and egg thing, but I dont want to wait till the software catches up - aznboi04k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4for a most people, we don't have hours to read and memorize on how ot use linux. we just a computer that works.
- n00854180t, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Instead of reading the article, just append the title with a colon and the word "support," and save yourself the precious minutes of your life it would have taken to read it.
- gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You can't legally run OS X on a non-Mac computer.
You also can't run most of the games out there on OS X.
OS X definitely does have backdoors, spyware, etc. You're only deceiving yourself if you believe otherwise. It's just less common. - felixmanos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I just wanna use a computer to compute stuff. Why would I wanna understand the system that gets that done for me. I just want it to do what I tell it, and get on with my life.
- pdiddle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2>I think that only way for it to be a good desktop system is if they found a way to remove terminal or at least provide gui option to do the same.
And remove THE most productive device available to a linux user and developer? I don't get why people instantly think that a GUI interface is better or faster than a CLI interface. I personally enjoy a mixture of both for my work.
In terms of GUI-ifying everything for the most basic users, that is not a "linux" thing, but more related to the Window Manager. KDE is about as intuitive as you can get for a window manager, and is quite similar to windows in terms of kcontrol(control) and konqueror(windows explorer). It has GUI interfaces to samba, networking, disk mounting etc. -
Show 51 - 100 of 182 discussions
Check out the new & improved 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is