What is Digg?108 Comments
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31You're right. Big companies won't use Gentoo.
Big companies won't use ANYTHING that doesn't have a 1-800 support phone number tacked on to the product.
That's why I've (personally) only seen RedHat Enterprise in large companies. - kooft, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25I think the point is that for a server you would typically run it sans GUI. Portage is an amazing system that can entirely eliminate the need for a GUI package manager. I agree though, that best server distro is the one the admin is most familiar with, but I'd definitely recommend giving Gentoo a look-see.
"CLIs are just scary."
You should _not_ be running a GNU/Linux server in a corporate environment if you agree with this statement. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -9/+26It's clearly a subjective issue. If one is familiar and skilled with the use of Gentoo, the s/he should manage the environment using Gentoo. The same goes for Red Hat and Debian, among other distributions. Nobody tells you what car to drive. It's a personal choice that makes a perfect fit. As far as collaboration goes, that's an entirely different matter. Gentoo might be harder to master than, let us say, Ubuntu Linux. By design, there are still some things in gentoo that require use of the CLI. To many people, CLIs are just scary.
- fishfishfish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Network Solutions, one of the biggest hosting companies in the US, runs its Linux servers on Gentoo. Gentoo seems to perform flawlessly. In my experience, the same cannot be said about Network Solutions themselves.
- nxusername, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I've been running Gentoo on a large number of servers for years. I never have downtime to upgrade thanks to portage. It's better than SuSe and Red Hat EL by light years.
- qurk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@texpundit
I agree with the other guy, Texpundit. I've been running Gentoo for 3-4 years now and while for the first couple of years I was pretty obsessed with keeping my system updated, keeping my tree synced 3-4 times a week etc....for the last couple of years that suddenly got old and I've only updated stuff like once every 6 months or when a security issue comes up. There comes a point when everything just works, and there's no need to keep everything updated. Then like I'll start using a program I hadn't used for 8-9 months, and update it, and while there may be many dependancies, there is practically never a problem. Hey a month or two ago I decided to update KDE and X for the first time in like a year, which would probably be the situation, if any, which would be like the experience your friends told you about. It went extraordinarily smooth, I had put the eterm compiling everything on a different desktop, came back a few days later and saw it was done, then dropped out of KDE and X and started them back up and walla.
Do yourself a favor and give it a try, just to show your friends they are wrong, maybe :) - spectrm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@texpundit
that doesn't make any sense. stability is about resilience to load and modifications. Gentoo is both of those things so long as you are smart about them. Updating in Gentoo doesn't need to be every day. I run it once a week, some of my buddies run it once every four or five months. So long as you don't blast away gcc or glibc (should be no brainers anyway), everything will run smoothly.
I'm sorry you listen to your inexperienced friends. - joshsz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Tyr7BE,
I run Gentoo on mission-criticlal systems, and have had no downtime at all resulting from the distribution. I'm not sure how you can justify claiming that Gentoo isn't stable. My systems have been running for over a year, and have been rock solid. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Who said I don't use the CLI? I am speaking based on my experiences with other people... there's a learning curve to many.
- justoman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"Gentoo is just in too high a state of flux for me"
Isn't that a good thing? That means the distro is live and active. - neuralcooker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"Gentoo is just in too high a state of flux for me"
This is just like the Linux kernel itself but you don't have to run the development kernel, you can run the stable safe production version. You can do the same thing with gentoo.
In general, all this talk on gentoo and other distros as being stable has always seemed a little odd to me at the core of the argument since gentoo is really just distribution system for an OS plus apps not the OS itself. But I get the point, just nitpicking here. In my opinion distros simply aid the admin in setting up the system in one way or another. It is really up to the admin to make sure that it is secure for his/her needs. A distro is just a tool not a silver bullet. I don't think any distro claims that just using that distro will make your system foolproof. - robdiggity, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Much of what you say here simply isn't true, and suggests to me that either you have never used gentoo, or perhaps you did once long ago and were put off by the depth.
Gentoo is a source distribution yes, but it is driven by portage, which is driven by a framework of profiles. There are rock solid profiles that have stood the test of time that for all intents and purposes can mirror the behavior of any binary distribution out there. Want a rock solid server? Use the rock solid stable server profile for 2006 and change nothing. Install from pre-built binary packages if you want.
The difference is gentoo allows you to tweak and effect meaningful changes with very little effort. You could start as above, and then slot-install a whole other gcc/binutils/glibc if you want, and have commercial packages with odd dependencies running perfectly well in their own -config sandbox. It is understandably difficult to do this with other distributions, but gentoo & portage make it a one-page howto.
I have sparc64, amd64, x86 and ppc machines all running gentoo supporting production services. The common denominator is portage and its profiles, and I woul^H^H^H^H couldn't have it any other way. - thcobbs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8It's easy to convince high level execs if you have numbers and, more importantly, dollars attached to those numbers.
Otherwise, it just looks like you're saying, "Hey, this is cool. We need to do this!" - oshu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Gentoo is a great example of how flexible linux technology can be. It is a great OS, but it is certainly not the best OS for every situation. There are a lot of factors that have to be considered when deploying a an OS, and not everyone puts the same weight on each.
1. Is commercial support available or will I have to rely on in house expertise? If you are deploying 10 servers, relying solely on in house expertise might be reasonable. If you are deploying 1000 (or 10,000) servers the situation changes. You simply may not have that much in house expertise available at all times across you organization. Also consider how staff turnover will effect support needs.
2. Are all the tools I need to manage the OS included? How readily usable are these tools? Almost any solid and reliable unix like OS can do a great job, but when you are managing a non-trivial number of systems you need tools. In the old days we wrote our own scripts using combinations of utilities like rcs, cvs, rsync, rsh, and others to manage everything. The disadvantage is that every big shop had a different way of doing things and would have to train new staff. Not to mention the burden of maintaining these tools. Now OSs like Red Hat offer effective, integrated tools that you can find listed on resumes. of potential new hires.
3. How difficult is it to hire new staff? If you are using a specialized OS like Gentoo, you are much less likely to have candidates walk through the door ready to work without much training. If a candidate claims to know Gentoo, how do you asses their skill level? In small shop, the IT staff can perform interviews. In a large shop that just isn't practical. OSs that have respected industry certifications make the hiring process much easier. The pool of available talent is also larger.
4. How are updates handled? An OS like Gentoo updates software to new versions all the time. This is problematic when you are building your own applications on top. Version changes in the OS can require modifications to your applications. This is extra work. OSs like Red Hat and Debian do not upgrade program versions in a given distro version. Instead they supply bug and security fixes. This means I can install a machine, deploy my software on it, and know that it will do its job for up to 7 years before I have to deal with a major OS version change (while getting those bug fixes and security updates all the while).
5. What is the cost? Do you have a budget for support? If not, this obviously changes your priorities.
6. How hard will it be to migrate? One of the great things about linux technology is that if you are unhappy with your vendor, it is possible to find commercial support from another vendor for the big distros. For example, If you are unhappy with Red Hat's service, you can get a support contract from IBM, HP, or even Sun to cover your Red Hat OS. If you become unhappy with the OS itself, moving to a similar distro like Suse is not too painful. The more specialized of a distro that you use, the more complicated it becomes to migrate to a different one should the need arise.
There are places in the IT world for many different linux based OSs. There is even a special place in my heart for Gentoo. I love messing with it. One of the reasons I use it as my workstation is that I never need to reinstall to get the latest software versions (just the opposite of what I like to see on my servers). In my experience, however, it is not the right product for any of the large scale IT shops with which I have worked.
As always, your mileage may vary :) - robdiggity, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Guys, try not running your production servers with ~x86, or bleeding edge profiles. Also, if you change your profile, try not to leap ahead like 2 years at a time.
You don't have to update every week. You just need to use the tool set properly, and set your expectations properly. If you're going to install ~x86 or run a shaky profile, expect there to be issues. - kalidav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8It's the skill of the person configuring it rather than the distro that's key imho.
- EruLabs, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Gentoo makes a good anything if you know how to use it. I agree, most of the time, something like Ubuntu works better when a user/server admin isnt so advanced.
- neuralcooker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"Plus, the Gentoo community and forums are the best I've ever seen for support."
Great point. This is usually so understated when it comes to gentoo. This is one of main reasons that I use gentoo. I like the fact that when/if stuff breaks that there is a large number of friendly people out there that want to help. I almost always get helpful responses super fast. The gentoo community is the most helpful online community that I've ever been a part of. - Grassmunk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Here's the thing, all you linux people need to grow up and realize that you dont have to take things so personally.
So he didnt like Gentoo. Who cares? Guess what, i dont like gentoo either because i grew up on debian. For the same reason why i dont like mainframes. Because its new, complicated and I dont have the time to invest in learning a new way of doing things when what i have right now works just fine. I have tried gentoo but when i did i felt it was more of a 'neckbeard' distro.
. I bet you the guy who wrote the 'I dont like Gentoo' article doesnt care about what you write here. He's a non published blog writer who has no sway on a corporate level and besides for each linux distro i bet you can find many fortune 1000 companies using them in their offices. It doesnt matter what you say or think just use the OS you want to use.
I think what really matters here is some people get WAY to personally and emotionally invested in what operating system they use and then they decide that anyone who doesnt like that OS for whatever valid reasons is not only attacking the OS but themselves. That simply isnt the case. Like what a digger said above: Its like cars. Some people like Volkwagons and other like Hondas. Sure they may argue which car is better but from someone who doesnt care they both just look like idiots. - Brennan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8There's nothing about Gentoo that makes it unstable or anything. Just because it has this reputation as being used by tinkerers or hobbyists, doesn't mean the entire OS is unstable and is going to be crashing every 5 minutes and taking out all your data. Portage has trees to use older, more "stable" packages and you can configure Gentoo in the same way you'd configure any of your "server distributions". In this case, if one was more familiar with Gentoo it would make perfect sense to use it, and there are a bunch of other reasons on top of this why it makes a great server OS. Nobodies saying you're going to be modifying use flags and recompiling the whole system every day in a corporate environment, you won't. You wouldn't ***** around with whatever other OS you're running, so just because Gentoo allows it, doesn't mean that's all you do with it.
- vokiel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Let's say you setup a Gentoo LAMP server a few years ago. It has PHP4 and an older version of MySQL. If I try to upgrade this software..."
...I back up for a little moment and change my mind because upgrading live systems is an error, PERIOD, for any system.
Even on Ubuntu. You don't that, that is all. I worked for a hosting company for more than a year and if you need to upgrade software on a server, it means grab a fresh server, install the new software on it and then migrate all the customers from the old server with 0 downtime. That is done in case, just in case the system isn't perfect and we all know no systems are perfect. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I completely agree. But very rarely will you be able to convince this to high-level execs.
- Apreche, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yes, you can make a great server with Gentoo. However, as I commented on the previous story, it's no good for a production server. If you are actually doing real business, Gentoo will only cause you trouble. Here's an example.
Let's say you setup a Gentoo LAMP server a few years ago. It has PHP4 and an older version of MySQL. If I try to upgrade this software, I will face significant downtime. There were many changes in the way Gentoo deals with MySQL and PHP between then and now. Upgrading will require hours of backing up, recompiling, reconfiguring, etc. A production server can not afford any downtime, let alone hours. If it were an ubuntu server, none of this would be necessary.
I was a Gentoo user for many years. I learned Linux on Gentoo. It is definitely possible to setup a stable and scalable production environment based on Gentoo Linux. But even for someone like me, the effort and resources required to create such an environment are so great that it is not worth it. I can get the same job done with less effort on a different distro. I might be lacking in the performance department compared to Gentoo, but performance is something I can fix without downtime. - bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Gentoo is just in too high a state of flux for me"
When you're running a server, isn't that what it's all about? Latency and scalability are key. With Gentoo, you have very little running in the background, minimizing bloat. Many people have had success in achieving very stable and responsive servers. It's cool with most of us that many of you had great luck with other distributions, but there's no reason to bash Gentoo; it gets the job done and it does a hell of a great job at that. It's much easier to start from the bottom and add services/modules as needed than to poke through the kernel of a much larger distribution and tear out the parts you don't want. Trying to add flux to Windows is one of the reasons I switched to Linux in the first place. - commandar!, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Does Portage support the concept of a release? Like Dapper, Edgy, Feisty or Sarge, Woody, and Etch in the Debian/apt world? I know it didn't when I first tried it a few years back.
In a server environment, having a stable, baseline install that by default only receives security patches (without installing backports) is a good thing. Does Gentoo support this at all these days? - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Doesn't the latest Gentoo-Sources kernel use fewer than 20 patches, all stability related. Compare that to RHEL who have over 500 patches.
Of course some people run mm-sources but some people are also on something strong ;).
By default Gentoo will also use minimal stable optimisations. You actually have to set the -omg-optimized flag and then you will be ignored by the devs.
All the lies about Gentoo are just that. Most the people running 70 optimisation flags and mm-sources are noobs trying to be 1337 haxx0rs. - MrEcho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Gentoo can be very hard to install...
The handbook gives way to much information, and its hard to follow at times....
So I've made this: http://gentoo-install.com
Lots of people use it, and I'm always keeping it up to date. - greyfade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Apreche: "Let's say you setup a Gentoo LAMP server a few years ago. It has PHP4 and an older version of MySQL. If I try to upgrade this software, I will face significant downtime."
so.... mask it. all your other updates can take place despite hard-masking PHP 5 and MySQL 5, you don't have to install Apache 2 if you don't need to, and most importantly, you can control every other update to your system at the package level. if you don't need to update something, *mask the updates*. this isn't rocket science, and i don't understand why so many people fall back on this fallacious argument. - jarjarbinks, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I run linux on alot of our servers at work and it's not because of cost, it's merely how easy it is to update. Sometimes you just want to build a machine with the bare minimum and sometimes you don't. It's so easy to do either with Gentoo. Plus, the Gentoo community and forums are the best I've ever seen for support.
- ThePet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Lol, a score of -1 doesn't mean rabid fan boys dugg him down because he's anti gentoo.
I administer near 100 linux servers and agree that gentoo is not for production. But I disagree with his main point, support isn't the issue. The issue for me is the constantly changing stable branch. I have many Cent-OS servers in production. For those who don't know, Cent-OS is a clone of RedHat, but with no paid support.
In the past 5 years I can't think of any instance when I used the paid support for RedHat. They put out their security fixes, we put them through our release to production process, everything is happy. No big issues at all. This is why Cent-OS works great for us too.
Now, MySQL support has been so worth it. They are great with helping tweak the app for performance and stability. - greyfade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3you're basing your argument on a strawman. Gentoo doesn't need to be updated weekly. many people do updates monthly or even not at all. you can update piecemeal if you don't need everything to be updated.
don't need a package updated? add it to your package.mask file. need a security update? add it to your .unmask file, then.
but weekly updates simply aren't necessary. most of the software a server uses is updated monthly at best. stick to stable and you will almost never see an update, so why bother?
when you get over the whole weekly updates lie, get back to me so we can see what the real problems are. - greyfade, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@jsully: it's quite simple, really. the corporate big-wigs want the insurance of enterprise-level support if something goes wrong. they don't trust their peons to know enough about linux to fix it - even if they do.
at my company (Innuity, Inc.), we use SuSE linux. for one reason: we already have the corporate support contracts. i don't bother to puch Gentoo, because the initial setup takes a while. we all know this. but we already use SuSE, we already have support contracts, so why change it?
at home, i use Gentoo. i wouldn't use anything else. - jgtg32a, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3didn't read the article did you, they're all identical
He spends time on ONE and then flashes them over - wildmXranat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4wow, this kinds of threads are useless. every server platform with a great knowledgeable admin ca kick ass. gentoo, ubuntu even windows. relax ppl.
- joshsz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4it's not the number that matters, it's what you do with them ;) Also you'll note I'm using a build server to cut down on a great deal of extra time. I'd say I only spend an hour a month maintaining the distro on all machines.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Schestowitz
"Gentoo might be harder to master than, let us say, Ubuntu Linux. By design, there are still some things in gentoo that require use of the CLI."
What the hell are you talking about? Ubuntu Server is _ALL_ CLI! Most linux server distros are _ALL_ CLI. Regardless of whether or not YOU know how to use the command line, if other people can't, they shouldn't be running a linux server. - joshsz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Grassmunk,
I agree many Linux users get very emotionally attached to their choice of distribution. I felt however that Gentoo gets treated poorly by the community at large, so I felt a clear, unemotional article defending it was in order. I didn't resort to personal attacks or the like in order to establish Gentoo's superiority. In fact, you'll note in my recent comments I've stated that people should use what they're familiar with.
If I were offered a job administering machines running any Unix flavor (debian, aix, solaris, macosx, etc) I'd take it (assuming it paid more, and was interesting, etc ;)). I'm not married to Gentoo, I just think it works very well :). - goofballjm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've been running 3 Gentoo servers in a corporate environment. One is just a TLS based FTP server, but the other hosts images for a website we use, an LDAP server for our company directory, a squid proxy for internet filtering, and runs a 6GB Postgresql DB with several thousand company documents that have since been sent to the shredder. Originally the machine was a single threaded P4 with a 20 GB drive. Since then, I have added a RAID 1 SATA array, switched out the MB and processor to a P4 3.0 HT, bumped up the ram to 1GB, and I never had to reinstall once. I am not a Linux guru by any means, but Gentoo has some of the most complete documentation around for their OS, making 24/7 tech support useless in this case.
Also, I am running the stable tree without issues. People like Debian for stability, but I have to say that I have had so few problems with everything I have done, I would never use another OS.
BTW, this was all done from a CLI, no X on either of my Gentoo Servers. Both machines start up in less than 30 seconds, and use less than 100MB of RAM upon the initial boot. The FTP server uses on 16 when starting up.
Gentoo can be a problem when you use ~x86 for everything, you have 300 use flags in make.conf, and you trick out your CPU optimization to new heights. Most people that complain about Gentoo are doing this very thing. I did this for a while and had problems all the time. It's been 3 years of running gentoo stable and I have had fewer problems than any of the other 3 distros I have messed with over the years. - joshsz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Halik,
I've worked for large companies and for small. Gentoo is a mindset change. Personally I prefer working for small companies because I don't have to go through all the red tape in order to update ssh to avoid a critical security hole, etc. I understand there are Business processes that make using Gentoo more difficult. This isn't the distribution's fault though.
Personally I think Sun especially has allowed business to build up this ponderous attitude towards servers. My philosophy is of light and quick deployment, with rapid response to the changing world of computing possible. I'm sorry, but in your environment I feel this just isn't possible. - robdiggity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Sigh. This really isn't hard. Want to be completely stable?
Don't. Run. ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86." - Hydraulix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I've never seen so much hate directed towards Gentoo in my entire life. Don't be mad because you can't install it. Even though it has a ***** of documents. And the install guide is so simple, a caveman could do it. I've been running Gentoo for 6 years now. I run it on my home servers, laptop, and xbox. It's by far the best disto I've ever used. I've used everything from Mandrake-Ubuntu. I always keep coming back to Gentoo.
- 21chrisp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The problem with Gentoo isn't its stability...the problem is that if you miss one or two updates, you could be seriously *****."
I've run Gentoo for three years. I just finished one update a few weeks ago. The last time I did a full update was in February 2005. I had no problems worthy of reporting. Just one package that didn't like gcc 4.1. Other than that I stay on top of patches and that works just fine. I'm not sure what gives this impression?
There is a weakness regarding Gentoo, one that never gets mentioned though... Being source based, it is CRITICAL that you have a stable and well-built toolchain. If you don't have that it will be unstable. Usually it's not a problem, but if you plan on admining it in a production environment you need to make sure you know how to lock that part of your system into a very stable state. Many Gentoo users don't take time to do this and bork their machine. It takes about 15 minutes to lock this down for a year or two. - ThePet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"you're basing your argument on a strawman. Gentoo doesn't need to be updated weekly. many people do updates monthly or even not at all. you can update piecemeal if you don't need everything to be updated."
I was arguing against his point of "Gentoo is good as a server if you update weekly". My point is that updating gentoo weekly will not work in production. If you don't agree that Gentoo needs to be updated weekly, then my post has nothing to do with you.
"when you get over the whole weekly updates lie, get back to me so we can see what the real problems are."
My real problem with Gentoo as a server is the constantly changing stable branch. My #1 reason for using Gentoo on my laptop is the constantly changing stable branch. - BenStockwell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Does Portage support the concept of a release? Like Dapper, Edgy, Feisty or Sarge, Woody, and Etch in the Debian/apt world? I know it didn't when I first tried it a few years back.
In a server environment, having a stable, baseline install that by default only receives security patches (without installing backports) is a good thing. Does Gentoo support this at all these days?"
Nope. You've got to constantly upgrade your system piece by piece. - kooft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@thcobbs
"Sorry, an upwards of 1-2GB for the portage tree is NOT a minimal install."
If you don't remove the downloaded packages that you install, then sure it'll get big. Just like if you download RPM's and don't delete them after installing, your 'RPM directory' will consume gigs of space. My /usr/portage is 500MB, which could probably be better, but when I've got 300GB of storage .5GB just doesn't seem that significant. - atrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Gentoo has quite a few advantages and disadvantages.
First off, the support community is amazing. The forums are always active, and I've never seen a thread go unanswered, no matter how big the issue.
Also, there is a great centralized how-to-do-everything wiki, which is nicer than looking through 50 random Ubuntu forums for answers. Gentoo can be as stable as you want, or as crazy and optimized as possible.
They handle all the standard software, and their repository of compatible software in huge. This means that even if they do modify some packages, that they will still function the same from the users point of view, and they are kept up to date by the Gentoo developers.
The only real downsides to Gentoo are the lack of good pre-compiled binary repositories and the fact that if you do not update Gentoo for a while you will spend a year debugging broken packages and the such...
I've been running Gentoo for almost 3 years now (2 years on this current install as of Feb 9) and rarely had any issues (and all brought on by me).
If you are a competent sysadmin, who updates systems regularly, you will never have an issue with Gentoo in a corporate setting. - robdiggity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I don't know that it's so much an emotional issue as it is one of just trying to share information and communicate. If someone said something patently false about debian, or anything for that matter, and you knew better, would you not try to engage some degree of discourse and understand why? Possibly correct your colleague? Hell, maybe *your* understanding was off a bit? This is communication, we use it along with observation in order to learn.
- SandyThomson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3We have 4 * (dual processor, dual core) servers based in a datacenter (2 web/application servers and 2 database servers w/replication), in addition to a 2 separate servers that run SMTP and DNS - we overwrote RHEL and installed Gentoo remotely, and haven't had a hitch in 2 years. The servers tend be quite loaded as well. Of course what it drills down to is how competent you are as a system administrator. Upgrades to your production servers should always be tested/simulated on development servers first to discover problems, then eventually rolled out after a period of testing.
Anyway, in my experience as our business has grown we moved from Redhat (truly awful) to Debian (better, but tended to break quite catastrophically during upgrades with no other upgrade path options) to Gentoo.
The hardened project is worth a look if you run a gentoo server
www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/ - robdiggity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"If it were an ubuntu server, none of this would be necessary."
With respect I simply cannot buy this. The scenario you describe here, with years passing and full version numbers changing, *any* distro is going to be saddled with some serious work and regression issues. - phjr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Just to note: the profile update is even more simple, because you don't have to emerge -e system nor world.
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