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227 Comments
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -9/+165"Why am I being dugg down for telling the truth? Nobody is even bothering to respond or refute what I said."
welcome to digg. - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -14/+161So you're telling me XBox's aren't computers too? Computers are supposed to do what I want them to do. If I want them to be tools, they should be tools. If I want them to play games, they should play games. If you think about it, a gaming system is just a *tool* used to play games.
By your logic, we should just stop trying to run Linux on gaming systems, iPods, etc. I mean, they aren't "computers" according to you I guess. Too bad we do. - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -16/+91Why am I being dugg down for telling the truth? Nobody is even bothering to respond or refute what I said. Anyway, if you think I'm some Linux hater you'd be wrong. I run Linux occasionally, and I administrate systems running FreeBSD. I just don't think it has very good support for many of the popular games out there. It's not necessarily the fault of Linux, but it's true and it's sad. If Linux did have better mainstream game support, it would be a much better alternative for home use.
- sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -10/+84"Computers are tools not toys, if you want to play games buy a toy from the toy store."
You sound like a tool yourself. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+34Lack of games is the only thing preventing me from moving to linux.
- betterth, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28@withincontext
If you'll step off your moral high horse for a minute, let's have a chat.
Not everyone has hours of freetime to sit around and test to see if programs work. To fiddle with settings, with Wine, with Caldega, with all these different platforms to get a game to work.
Some people just want to go home and log onto WoW without wondering which emulation process is going to make it work. Or Dark Messiah, or NFS:Carbon, etc etc.
If you have the free time and desire to give away your work and time to Linux -- great. Geeks love you and corperations use your work without paying you .
The rest of us will work our jobs and play games on a system that supports them all natively. - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25No an X-Box is a computer in every meaning of the word, it has processing power, i/o and a memory space. It's just not a PC.
- kevinmotel, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26"Computers are tools not toys, if you want to play games buy a toy from the toy store."
computers are calculators. they determine if something is a one or a zero. that's all. given enough time, a pocket calculator could do as much math as IBM's big blue - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25Here's a tip: If you want a system completely dedicated to gaming.....Linux isn't for you. Simple as that.....(although there ARE some good games for Linux like Alien Arena 2007).
For more info...check out: http://www.planetfreeware.org/
I got two boxes running WinXP and 3 running Gentoo at home for this exact reason. - Pootle4rthur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21piffle, my computer is my big boy's toy.
Actually, every computer I've ever owned since my C64 has been a toy.
The ones I use at work to code on are tools, hence their lack of a decent 3d graphics card and the feeble on board sound card they come with - EXreaction, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22@ tuxidomasx
Are you trying to brag about being able to spend $1,000 on new hardware for your pc and getting your games illegally?
If you can spend that much on hardware but are not willing to support game makers at all you are the lowest of the low. - Haohmaru, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Cars are tools, not toys. So I make sure NEVER to enjoy driving.
- vixenk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19Seriously, right now console gaming makes more sense than PC gaming for mainstream stuff.
Yes, Windows has more mainstream games, but have you taken a look at the price tag required to play these games smoothly... especially once Vista rolls out?
I agree that Linux does need more attention paid to it in the gaming arena for those that do prefer pc gaming. However, I am not one of those people at the moment. - NICU, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17I used to dual boot, but the only PC game I play is WoW and that runs just fine on Wine. I don't know why this article didn't mention Wine, but it runs WoW just fine. The only way to get gaming to be better on Linux is for more people to use it and report the bugs that are there. It will improve over time, but needs people to keep testing it.
- vmerc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Because iD software is one of the few pillars of fundamental thinking in the gaming industry. Everyone else is too concerned with making the next quarter's numbers and raping the general public with another version of the same old crap. The fact that they make engines on linux boxes, then port them to windows might have something to do with it too.
- tuxidomasx, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17call me crazy, but for some reason i dont mind spending $800-$1000 for a high-end video card + extra RAM + fast processor to play games at resolutions and framerates that make consoles weep silently in the corner...
PC gamers have been playing in hi-def for YEARS.
as opposed to paying $400-$600 for a regular console (that everybody has)
but then again, I know that i have mostly unlimited free games for PC.
and that kinda offsets the price
*smile* - b7illsmith, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11You make a good point about price. The cost of upgrading a computer vs. the cost of a console. Adding Linux to the mix only raises the possibility for disappointment. Every time I read a story about someone gettting a game to work in Linux there is always the mention of a couple of features not working properly.
- Aewheros, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I'd say it handles games even better than Windows. It keeps less system resources to itself and handles them better too. That there aren't proper games and graphics drivers available does not depend on the design of the OS.
- bagboyrebel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I think he means the part about swinging the sword, not the sword itself.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12isnt this a dupe?
ill say it again, im on Ubuntu Linux, i play many games either with cedega or wine or natively:
World of Warcraft
Steam (half life, halflife 2, counterstrike, dod)
Enemy Territory
Quake3
Unreal Tournament
Civilization 4 (used to play 3 too)
SimCity 4
Starcraft/Broodwar
Warcraft 3
Diablo2
Jedi Outcast/Academy
ALL of these games play just fine on linux, and these are just the ones i play, theres tons more that work without issue
Linux gaming does not suck, it could certainly use more native versions from software developers but even without that the linux community is making it work (that should show what a large demand there is, and possible market for linux games) - cogsprocket, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I've got to take some issue with this article. While he seems to talk a lot about how gaming sucks on Linux the primary focus seems to be on getting Windows games to run on Linux rather than genuine built-for-Linux games. Therefore there's little actual discussion about why gaming sucks on Linux and more discussion about why getting Windows games to run on Linux has gotten worse than better.
If Linux hopes to become a viable home desktop it needs to stop relying on moving applications from foreign platforms and focus on creating alternatives. Otherwise reliance on Windows for things such as games is forever assured. Just my two cents but it doesn't seem to be said enough. - cmdrNacho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Once the linux desktop market gets bigger .. hopefully better games will come..
.. just like we finally got flash player 9 :) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8if that solution worked then this topic wouldn't have been made in the first place -_- nobody can be bothered to spend that much time and labour without getting any benefits from it. At least with the linux os people have something to use for a decent amount of time afterwards for work etc. but in the case of games why would people spend years making something that theyll get sick of in a few weeks/months? It's not like they'll get paid. It just doesn't add up... I reckon the only solution is more advanced windows emulators.
- trollick, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Why games suck on Linux??? Because everybody is too ***** busy developing yet another window manager for Linux, instead of creating something useful and fun. FACT.
- archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8You don't have to release games under the GPL to have them run on Linux. I think you are a bit confused with regards to software licensing issues.
- pozzoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@betterth So... That's why Doom 3 and Quake 4 were so slow and "low quality" products?
Anyway.. you didn't even take time to analyze what I was saying.
first: If game industry needs a standard they should set it. If game developers think opengl needs an update they should push for one. I know how you brag about having using both... but I rather trust to the wikipedia (yes.. the wikipedia) than to some random poster in digg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D_vs._OpenGL
second: Of course an open source game won't be a high tech game with bleeding edge graphics that will require a not-yet-released graphic card. What I say is to develop an alternative to people who like games, I'm talking about a complete rethinking of the development cycle and of game genres. Games like spore and sims are already putting some of the weight of content creation on the users shoulder.
But I guess I hit a spot.. since you seem to be somehow touched by my comment. To the point of insulting me and making two comments about what I said. - ZergyPoo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9""Simple as that" for a simpleton like you. Those of us who seek to improve platforms and applications find this to be a challenge. Simple people with no vision--like yourself--accept the norm and duel boot. What a waste of efficiency and lack of innovation..."
Whoooaaaa dude...
You're right, I'll go tell my girlfriend, who has no technical knowledge whatsoever to go get set up and play WoW on linux. I mean obviously, she has a "lack of innovation" because she doesn't feel like doing that or doesn't know the first thing about how to do that.
I like how your definition of "Innovation" is fiddling for hours with an OS that isn't built for a task just to get one of your hobbies to work. I really must agree that NOT buying an OS that has this functionality built in is a terrible, "going with the norm" thing to do. - krazygluon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Dugg, because few games are developed for linux and becuase fewer windows games are adequately adapted for linux.
But I didn't digg this because I think people should run from Linux just because they can't game on it. I dugg it because WE NEED MORE GOOD LINUX/triplatform GAMES! and I think articles like this can help remind developers of that fact.
I think linux is an exceptional environment for gaming, and offers designers a chance to really used the hardware to its full capabilities. I think it just sucks that few games are given the chance to prove this. - CuCullin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Ugh.
Stop playing Windows games in Linux and calling it Linux gaming! Using id software products in Linux, THAT is Linux gaming. Whats being talked about here is assinine - A Windows game being run using compatibility libraries based on a BETA does not a Linux game make!
Another waste of time, space, and my aggregator's cpu usage. - vp0ng, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Remember Loki? they tried that. they sold box version of games for linux. Nobody bought them except a few die hards. Now they're out of business. Linux folk often want everything to be OSS, and free. why on earth pay for a game when it goes against OSS/community beliefs. IMO, the reason Linux is not great for gaming, is because of the Linux community, not the operating system, which is just fine. They don't support gaming, or the companies that try to cater to them.
- mercurysquad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Java for games is a terrible idea unless you want to recreate tetris. Even for that, flash would be better. Java is just not for any kind of high performance application.
- RWVolkl158, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Agreed. Yes, Cedega could be a bit more streamlined, but it really isn't that difficult to get well supported games running with it. Also, as you said, there is a fair bit of support and you can usually get a useful response to an (intelligent and polite) question.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9True, I only skimmed the article. However, I didn't see a decent "why" in there, as the title promises. Why does it suck? id Software seems to do okay with Linux games. Why not everyone else?
- ZergyPoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I'd like to add that I enjoy the sheer variety and power of PC games vs what you can get on the console. And I don't just mean graphics. WoW would be a pain in the ass to play with a controller.
A game like Rome: Total War is just not even feasable on a console.
I may be wrong, but I feel like games for the consoles are "simpler" than PC games can be, and are restricted by the controllers.
Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of console games, but I stick with PC gaming most of the time just because of what the games are capable of. - astra05, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Not to gloat, but one day I considered total migration to Linux, so I was checking out cedega. My test machine was a Pentium3 at 933 with a geforce 3 ti200 (old hardware), and only 512 MB of RAM. I installed the nvidia blob drivers and cedega. By the way this is a ubuntu 6.06 system. I had WoW running effortlessly. This guy seems like a novice from just this article, and not to mention the cedega support is pretty good on irc and the forums. So like all things in life, the effort you put into is usually equals a greater return. Just my opinion.
- pufuwozu, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14Linux is far capable of games. It's just not a major market. It's always expanding, though. Hopefully it will get to some sort of respectable size, soonish.
- Sedako, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Also, id's games run on OpenGL. Most major games out today are designed around DirectX, which is a Microsoft license.
- Diabolus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"Here's a tip: If you want a system completely dedicated to gaming.....Linux isn't for you. Simple as that.....(although there ARE some good games for Linux like Alien Arena 2007)."
I disagree.
Quesiton is: why shouldnt linux be able to be a dedicated gaming machine?
Answer: developers. they use directX, they dont wish to port or make it easy to do.
It's not that hard, check blizzard, they make games for both MAC and PC since days when MACs where still under powerPC, which is much more porting effort than now. Check the PS3, it's supposed to run on linux. There's no reason why Linux shouldnt be a decent gaming rig. Put pressure on publishers, and they'lkl force devs to do it when they feel a profit is due. - spikes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Yeah, I'm still waiting for Linux support for my X-Fi.
- EXreaction, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7You fool.
Yet another slave to Sony's marketing.
All they have to say is *Linux* and a whole mess of morons who act/think they know anything about Linux and think that Linux is just something for *cool* people get like giddy little school girls.
Anyone who thinks it is awesome that the PS3 can support certain Linux distro's really needs to learn what an OS is, and that even though it supports one thing that does NOT mean it will support everything other distro's of Linux can. - betterth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9It's really impossible to make a game that can stand up to a blockbuster professional game for free.
Want to know why?
All the people (geeks!) who know how to make games get paid to do it. There's absolutely no reason for a talented individual to do it for free. - dmsean, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5RE: tuxidomasx
Support developers! Buy the games you like. Otherwise PC Gaming IS DEAD........ - boblmartens, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ donkeycrock
The difference is where the money is going. The $1,000 on the PC that you were talking about is going only to the hardware companies ... which really doesn't encourage the software companies to make games anymore if they are not receiving money. It is not the same. - mercurysquad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5willcode4beer: I tried FlightGear. It's a mess. No proper startup, menu.. half the things are controlled via command line options, and the controls are horribly wrong. It's a good simulation from a scientific point of view, but as a "game" it's null.
- Hardcase, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5It's good old economics, don't you think? Developing games for Windows is a no-brainer...it's the 800 pound gorilla, the low hanging fruit. Going after OSX is probably a good idea since that represents the next significant platform. But Linux? It's marginal on the desktop and even less so as a gaming platform. Once committed to delivering the goods, development has to continue, but who wants to sink the dollars into a project that attempts to sell into a platform whose dominant philosophy is "free"? Oh, I understand "free as in beer", but I wonder how many people use Linux because it's free as in, well, free? As a share of the gaming market, I suspect that the Linux gamer represents a fraction of a percent. And most of that fraction of a percent also uses Windows or OSX.
It's money. And that's not even getting into the issues of 3D graphics on ATI and Nvidia products using "free" drivers. - HuwJanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I use both Windows and Linux, and ever since I tried Ubuntu thats been my choice. However, I fully believe in horses for courses.
If I want to browse the net, write, design websites etc, I use Ubuntu because thats what I prefer, however, if I want to play games or if I have work to do (For my job) I use Windows, which is my preference for those things.
Quite why everyone feels the need to constantly snipe and bitch about which is the best OS I cant understand. Even if Linux (Ubuntu) were to be capable of running all of the games I have I would still not move 100% to Linux because A) I need Windows for my work, and B) I like doing some things in Windows!
Why cant people just accept that both a valid environments and how we use them is down to personal preference and their current abilities. - malkir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6People should not be pushing for Linux ports. They should be pushing developers to develop in opengl rather than directx. The only difficulty in running games under linux is running directx, the rest the community can take care of itself.
- dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4`At the same time, they offer a Linux version to download completely free (yes free).'
Yes, that sounds great. Except that companies are in business to make money, and giving away software generally isn't an effective path to take towards that goal.
Perhaps this might be more effective in the long term than the short term, but when a company comes up with a new game, they're usually worried about making money in the short term rather than the long term. (Though pay-by-the-month MMORPGs are an exception.) - MicroBerto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Bad article (or at least mis-titled). He never tells you WHY it sucks, he just complains about things.
The reason gaming sucks on Linux is because nobody will make money selling it, so they don't bother devoting resources to it.
Why won't they make money?
1. The Linux home-user community ridiculously small, and isn't growing enough to get into it.
2. A ton of those Linux home users who actually play games (even smaller market), don't want to PAY for anything.
3. The areas where the Linux home-user community is growing, such as Asia, pirate software more than anybody.
The community in whole asks and asks for everything, but never wants to pay for anything and simply complains the entire time.
And THAT is why gaming sucks on Linux. Because nobody is going to profit from the 40% of the actual paying customers out of 25% of a 1% market.
And like it or not, gaming companies need to make money to stay alive . - Wyzard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"As for installing Windows after Linux, forget it. From what I read, the only ones who ever succeeded doing it werent quite exactly sure how they did it. Or as one of the most uber programmers I know said, it's witchcraft."
"Trying a dual boot install of Windows after Linux will take hours, maybe a day, and even then it is likely you may not succeed."
What are you talking about? People dual-boot with Windows and Linux on the same hard drive all the time. If you install Linux first and Windows second then you have to put back the bootloader that the Windows installation overwrites, but that's not a big deal. -
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