What is Digg?84 Comments
- geoken, on 10/12/2007, -13/+48Because Vista's buttons are developed with both style and usability in mind. Every time I try different beryl themes I always end up with a Vista-like theme because big, easy to hit buttons make more sense than small easy to miss buttons.
- grandpajesus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+36i think its because the vista UI is pretty dam nice
- cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -5/+35Fot the same reasons some people were trying to make Linux desktops "look like XP" for years.
Just because you may not like everything about a competing OS, does not mean you cannot recognize (and adopt) good design elements from the other platform. - ahmedkamel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26You can actually replace your windows Shell altogether, yes that explorer.exe
There are many programs outthere that do it, so the description of this post is actually misleading. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25Vista, like Mac OSX, was designed through repeated testing by real people, and asking them what they like and didn't like. This kind of usability testing is basically never done with any open source programs.
In open source, quality assurance is performed by the programmers themselves. They make the software for themselves. The artists make the UI for themselves. And this is why people routinely swap out default open source UIs and replace them with those made by big corporations. I mean, just look at Firefox, the most popular skins for this browser make it look like Apple's Safari. - turpenine, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22I would switch to ubuntu from osx if it was as easy to use and polished from the box. Nobody can just say switching to linux isn't a task you have to work at. You have to want to go to linux, I would rather it be, what is keeping me from using linux? Right now it is the inability to just jump right in and pick it up and understand it.
- stormgren, on 10/12/2007, -6/+211. Put in CD.
2. Restart computer.
3. Once it loads, click the install icon.
4. Follow the directions.
Is that really that difficult? - noots, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19what is it with Digg and ubuntu?
i was under the impression that there was more than one linux distro. - kaiwai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15RE: unl1m1t3d
Not true; I'm stuck in the camp of 'want to move, but my application isn't there" but since vista came out, its more "I'm happy with Windows - show be something better linux".
I want Adobe Creative Suite, there is no alternative; GIMP sucks, I tried to contribute to fix the usability problems I perceive exist but I was abused. I've tried the vector drawing application called Sodipod, which is absolutely terrible when compared to the likes of Freehand or Illustrator.
Sorry, some of us have genuine reasons for not using Linux - handle it, and address those issues if you want us to move; we're no fans of Microsoft, but we're certainly not going to sacrifice the applications we enjoy using for the sake of some anti-Microsoft kool aide, free love and free code. - hbweb500, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Even if you don't like the look of Vista, its hard to say that it doesn't look more polished that GTK + Beryl. Its those little nagging inconsistencies and visual things that keep me from loving the GNOME interface.
- phr0ze, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Ubuntu has made it much easier. I'd say that ubuntu IS something you can jump right into. For me it was less of a learning curve than OSX.
- pinoyboy82, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10haha, I remember working with a graphic designer who would always say, "We have to make it simple enough for a monkey to use". I dugg your comment for the monkey reference ;)
- StrawberryFrog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Eh, the problem with Linux in a mass market (which is what Vista is aimed at) has always been that although "you can actually replace the desktop environment, the window manager, file manager and a number of other applications" few people change the defaults.
And if the defaults are great, would you need to change them? I'm not saying Vista is great, I wouldn't know, I'm just pointing out that touting endless choice and configurability over actually getting one style really excellent is the fallacy that so many Linux zealots fall into. Look at the Apple Mac in that respect if you don't want to look at Vista. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Mirrors:
http://www.glowfoto.com/static_image/16-141039L/9647/jpg/02/2007/img2/glowfoto
http://www.glowfoto.com/static_image/16-141046L/1922/jpg/02/2007/img2/glowfoto
http://www.glowfoto.com/static_image/16-141055L/5370/jpg/02/2007/img2/glowfoto
http://www.glowfoto.com/static_image/16-141654L/1489/jpg/02/2007/img4/glowfoto
I have the text of the story too, if anyone wants it or duggmirror didn't pick it up. - mdmadph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8good luck doing any of this if you have an ATI card.
no, it's not impossible, but it's a lot harder than it should be. - strabes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5There's a learning curve with ubuntu just like there's a learning curve with any other OS. You have to "work" to switch to any other operating system because all operating systems are completely different. Windows != Linux != OS X. Don't expect them to be the same.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Not sure why people have dugg you down, considering you are correct and this is usefull information.
- Izacus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Also, all the eye candy in Linux has to be made usable. When I had Beryl on ubuntu there was about 2 or 3 usable window themes between the whole ton of them... the rest of them just had either small buttons, had them on non-intuitive places or had them hidden... pretty much same goes for the rest of the eye-candy. Most of it is just there so people can brag "HA! Vista can't do that!" but in reality it's annoying. To actually make Beryl usable you have to practically turn off most of the functionality and tweak the rest.
Look at the Vista and even more... look at the MacOS X interface... everywhere the animations and eyecandy is small and is not intrusive.
When will Linux devs start to learn from their competitors? - ahawks, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Enough with the Beryl on the homepage thing, PLEASE.
I run it, I love it, and so does anyone else who gives a damn about. - pinoyboy82, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10@stormgren
5. figure out that you need to download fglrx
6. modify xorg.conf for your monitor
7. figure out how to get wireless working
8. install network-manager
9. look up how to install network-manager...
you get the point... maybe your installation was that simple, but perhaps others may not have gone smoothly? How is a normal user supposed to figure all this out if they are installing over their windows machine? how are they going to know about network-manager without somebody holding their hand or without another internet connection? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Now i have counted 20 different Titles like this that made the Digg Front page HOW AND WHY do they continue they are all the same context !!!! And how does it make the front page when there are only 2 diggs or so to each article !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If i see another Beryl Cube Desktop PLUG i'm going to murder someone literally !!!!!!
Jesus I love LINUX but this shiot is bananas - UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5While Ubuntu has made it easier, you can't quite 'jump into it' and get the full experience. While if you just need a computer to surf the web and check email, Ubuntu works just fine out of the box, but most people who are interested in Linux are going to want more (eye candy, flash, Nvidia or ATI drivers, more themes, etc). I am currently writing this using Ubuntu Edgy and really enjoy it, but if I was to say that it didn't take some work to get where I am, I would be a huge liar.
- pinoyboy82, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Vista's user interface is definitely not as flashy with windows that flame out or rotating cube desktops, but it does improve upon what people are familiar with. I know the Digg community loves Apple, Linux, and apparently Joe Rogan now, but Vista's interface is not bad! Sure, OS X is more intuitive, but the subtle changes that are in Vista are more than enough for the average user who wouldn't know the difference between Linux and Vista... What Linux needs to do is think more like Apple with 'less clicks are better' and 'we only need one mouse button!' Sure, the CLI is there for nerds and geeks, but to truly make Linux sexy, I would prefer dragging icons onto my desktop to install, dragging them into the trash to uninstall, and pop up tips querying the internet telling me where to look for help if something doesn't work....
I know Linux users LOVE the flexibility, but the average user wants to be guided without so many choices! - UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I work on computers everyday at work and have installed XP and Vista so many times I could probably do it with my eyes closed. I feel Ubuntu is actually easier to install then both of them. What did you have issues with, and did you post any of the problems on the Ubuntu forums asking for help?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+17Being a total linux n00b I tried Unbutu a couple months ago. Bzzzzt! Denied.
Until a monkey can install it by clicking a couple times and walking away it will never reach the mainstream...ever. 99% of computers users don't give a ***** whether Linux is free or trendy. They want simple, brainless, and easy. - edm1950, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6You better not let Joe Rogan find out that you copied Vista
- TheNik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I installed Debian a while back, but XGL or whatever has a problem with the video card in my old-ass ThinkPad. It's disappointing because I was so close to making it look just like OS X.
- ts8lemonade, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I recently just got Vista on my laptop and I must say it is very pleasant to use. One of the reasons I liked OSX and various Linux environments was because they were just more visually appealing. I really like Vista though, Aero remains subtle, yet noticeable and very pleasing. It just seems like it's got a lot of polish, and I'm grateful for that.
- strabes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@kaiwai: It's free. That's a big advantage, especially if you don't have unlimited amounts of money. You should dual boot, or wine adobe CS. Photoshop is not much of a problem to wine these days, and I can't imagine CS would be too much more difficult.
- humbled, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I agree to a large extent. It's gotten to the point that when I say "I want a 3D desktop" to my friends, they assume I mean the eye-candy galore type and roll their eyes. Some of the features that the compositing engines have are great for usability, such as zooming in/out, Expose-like show-all features, live preview when tabbing through windows, etc. Also, an extremely brisk fade-in and fade-out effect is a really nice touch when opening and closing applications - less jarring than sudden appearance and disappearance. Unfortunately, these sorts of uses get overshadowed by snow and rain effects (could be useful, if used to match current weather conditions!), windows that explode or burn away, etc. Every now and then you want the cool, and that's okay - but let's not forget that the defaults should strictly be usability enhancements. Let the tweakers add on jelly windows, mystic tunnel, and flame effects, but keep the mainstream in mind out-of-the-box.
- UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10@chris
Most people spend $150+ on Windows because (A) They don't know their is anything else except OSX. (B) They are tied down to a certain app that isn't available for Linux, and they aren't willing to try any of the alternatives. If people wanted to pay for a nicer looking version of Windows, more people would just buy StyleXP. - pixelmixer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Im not sure you can actually compare XGL to Aero Glass... I think they're in different leagues. ;p
- lilrabbit129, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"I have to do those steps under windows anyway. It doesn't detect my network card (Wired not wireless) and you need the official nvidia/ati drivers. Well for games and the default Linux drivers work better than the default Windows ones which lag when dragging a window around. Its also much more painful under windows since the drivers are 40mb and need to be manually downloaded from a website whereas the Linux ones are a simply apt-get install driver. Plus the Windows install will need service packs etc... This is XP, Vista probably has better support for my hardware but apparently Vista has the same problems for heaps of people. In comparison Linux works fine for me out of the box, only need the gfx drivers for games/beryl"
But in windows, getting drivers is as easy as going to ATI or NVIDIA's site and getting their drivers. Double click, next next next next, reboot done. Linux? You go to Nvidia or ati, find their drivers. If you're lucky they'll have a package you can use ( rpm, deb, etc). If you're lucky, double clicking will install it. If not, look up how to install. 15 mins of searching you find something you can kinda follow, half of which is on the command line. This is the part where most people say screw it and go back to windows.
You said apt-get install driver. How do we apt-get? Whats the driver called? Will it work when its installed? etc..
BTW, I run FC6, so its not like I dont know what I'm talking about. - aguilr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think this is the market where Ubuntu falls. They try to follow the 80/20 rule. Make the defaults such that 80% of the people will be satisfied, yet make it so the other 20% are able to tweak it as needed. For example, when you do a server install there is a one-click "make this a LAMP server" option. It's a similar situation with the desktop version. During the setup, you don't get the option of trudging through 2000+ packages; they pick a sensible default set and once the installation is done, you can add/remove as you please through a pointy-clicky interface called Synaptic.
I think this is the answer to the question, "What's with Digg and Ubuntu?". They are trying to make the *user-oriented* distro rather than the developer-oriented approach that most other distros take. That said, developers can feel right at home too with just a few simple clicks (or apt-get on the CLI). It's a "have your cake and eat it too" approach.
Keep an eye on this distro; it can only get better. - intangible, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@hbweb500
Gnome inconsistent compared to Windows? My God man, you have that backwards. In Gnome, all the desktop apps, even firefox and open-office share the same interface. Any Gnome/GTK app does by default too. Compare that to Windows where every single app seems to want to reinvent the UI differently... IE7, Office2007, Messenger, Explorer... and don't even get me started on vendor apps; every anti-virus/anti-spyware/cd-burning program reinvents the GUI to differentiate itself.
Gnome lacks in some areas, but GUI consistency is one area it excels over Windows. - MaxPayne3476, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8I just installed Vista Ultimate today, WOW. after spending a half-hour with it, I can say I'm definitely more impressed then when I used a Macbook.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3People keep saying, I make my Linux beryl desktop look like vista because vista is the best way!
Well grats to you!! You can make Linux look like alot of things, you can even create your own themes and plug ins. Thats because Linux is about choice. You can choose to have those big buttons and you can choose not to.
But on Windows/Mac theres only one or two different things to chose from. Sure its what most people want, but is it exactly what you want? Its to bad you don't get the choice to perfect it like i do. - motang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Beryl is cool, it has so many options and customizations.
- UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@thepeople
That isn't an excuse anymore. Wifi in Linux is getting better and better every 6 months. You should really look into Linux again. - newslang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@rooneyet
Go find some and submit it. If it's good, I'll digg it. - UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@kaiwai
You misunderstood my comment. I am currently dual booted with Windows XP Professional x64 and Ubuntu Edgy 64. I am using Linux for everything except gaming and a few other things. Honestly I don't care if you use Linux/OSX/XP/Vista etc and I am not trying to convert anybody (their are enough "missionaries" from all three camps already on Digg ;). What I meant by my comment is nobody is spending $150 just because Vista has a nicer UI. Have you ever thought about a dual boot or using Wine? They are both easy to implement and have tons of tutorials. - Hindu_Wardrobe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Litestep is by far my favorite.
http://www.lsdev.org - The development page
http://www.litestep.net - Litestep community, with installers, themes, etc. - pinoyboy82, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Also, I don't know if it's just me, but It seems like so many Linux lovers would rather twiggle the damn transistors themselves than make things easier! I mean it seems some people would rather code with punch cards than with a keyboard!!!
- rooneyet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I use kubuntu but i'm sick of ubuntu hitting the front page. I want to see other linux/unix/bsd stuff.
- PopeOfDope, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Limited skinning options in windows? How about free stuff like Litestep, bbLean, blackbox etc. Complete shell replacements that work very well with a whole load of skins available.
- pixelmixer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I dont think its the installation process itself thats hard for people.
We've all used plenty of installation wizards to get stuff setup, so we all know the steps.
The problem for most people is hardware incompatibility. For example... I had a hell of a time getting xorg to work at all on my ATI card. Im actually still having some issues now.
In anycase, when someone sticks in the install cd, boots it up, and it shows an error screen, then defaults to terminal stuff people get scared. Then, sometimes you'll do an update (and this seems more prevalent in Ubuntu than other distros) you might be one of the unlucky ones and download a botched update. So you have to reinstall stuff through the terminal if it breaks gnome.
THEN, if they want to install Beryl/Emerald/XGL/AIGLX/Compiz/FGLRX ... etc... they dont know what that means, OR have any clue how to do it.
The best thing I like about Ubuntu tho is that there really is plenty of support. People are out there trying to get it working and are willing to help others once they figure it out. Its really a community thing versus just another Operating system. Currently people have to be willing to join that community if they really want to switch to Linux/Ubuntu in general. - launchpadtt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So this is basically a blog post that said, I switched to Beryl? How does that get on the front page? It's blindingly obvious that Beryl blows Vista and MacOSX out of the water, how is this news? The post didn't even say anything interesting. steups.
- Traiklin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I wish I could switch to linux, I really really do but unfortunately every attempt at it has ended up in horrible missery.
My First attempt was with Red Hat, I managed to get it to install but it couldn't find drivers for my video card, it was an ATI card but this was the early days when ATI were pricks about their drivers, so the highest I could go was 1024x768 (when I could go up to 1280x1024).
I next tried SuSE, this one went better, it managed to realize my monitor could do 1280x1024, I didn't care much for the theme so I changed it, this crashed the OS and wouldn't let me continue so I had to remove it.
Next I was recommended Lindows (I forget what it's called now) I installed it and liked it but at the time I couldn't find any alternatives to the programs I used on windows, well I could find them but they lacked the features I was used to.
Next I tried another version linux (forget which one) and it ended up frying my DVD Burner, it wouldn't read or write to ANY disc after that.
I tried various Live CD's and liked it but never liked it after installing it.
So I avoided Linux for a few years until Unbutu was becoming the rage, it was basically back to square one for me, it worked but I couldn't go past 1024x768 and I just couldn't get the programs I liked for it.
Now I use my 360 as an extender to watch movies and what not on the TV (since i don't have a separate PC just for media yet) so for me Linux just isn't for me, I've given it plenty of shots but for some reason I just could never get it to work for me. - saturn5, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
The default Ubuntu theme is still very boring. It has all the visual excitement of Windows 95. Yeah, you can spend hours customizing it, but not all computer users are 18 year old techies with lots of time. Linux can't compete with Vista out of the box. - Nathanael, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1After trying to get Beryl etc. working on Ubuntu 6.10, and getting endlessly frustrated by the multitude of guides, all claiming to be "the one that works" - I tried it on OpenSuSE 10.2, and it TRULY was a breeze. You can get compiz working with the click of one button once you install your video drivers. I got beryl working shortly after, also with minimal effort. This is another instance, as mentioned above, where a corporation gets behind something and makes it what it should be. Ubuntu has done nothing but gather a large number of blind fanboys, unable to see the flaws so obvious to everyone else.
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