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122 Comments
- NinjaBoy, on 10/12/2007, -14/+79Man I don't want to be bursting peoples bubble but iv heard the same thing about 2k and XP. No offence, but 99% of the general population is still going to use vista. Maybe not right away but sooner or later it will have the majority share of desktop systems.
Sorry to rain on the parade.
/Is a linux user - cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -9/+61Waiting for SP1 after release of a new OS is old hat for those in the enterprise ~and~ hardware geeks. The newegg.com poll probably hit by some Linux and/or Open Source blogs and websites, it was surely "suggested" you go vote and make your opinion known. Otherwise you're going to try and tell me with a straight face that 40%+ of New Egg shoppers do not plan to ever upgrade to Vista?
*****
The enterprise will basically never ever upgrade to Vista, as in the past. Existing machines may be re-provisioned with Vista as part of ongoing maintenance, but most big enterprises will not go out and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars re-imaging all their tens of thousands of PCs to Vista JUST to move to Vista. They WILL buy new PCs with Vista on them.
Very few, and I mean VERY FEW enterprises will look at their inventory of thousands of Windows2k or XP machines and think "its time to move to Linux, Vista is bad because the OS guys say so".
You guys have a fundamental misunderstanding of the politics of the big enterprise. Nobody in the enterprise is sitting around even considering a need to switch. They ARE pinging their vendors to make sure than can get XP Pro on their new machines for as long as possible under their current MSFT agreement.
Every damn year is Linux's year on the desktop. When XP shipped you guys said users were going to abandon Windows in droves and move to a Linux distro. Now comes Vista and out come the Linux soap box worshipers.
Note well I use Linux at home and at work. I love Linux, ~and~ Windows, ~ and OS X, ~and~ any freaking OS that can get the specific job done I've been tasked to accomplish.
I am NOT a MSFT fan boy.
I am NOT a linux fan boy.
I am NOT an Apple fan boy.
I am a computers and computing fan boy. - count_z, on 10/12/2007, -2/+35It's rediculous article like this that make Linux enthusiasts look like morons. Microsoft STILL supports Windows 2000 (some 6 years after it was released)... so they will probably continue to support XP for quite a while.
So the author of the article is suggestion that Coporations will be pissed with Microsoft so they will abandon their existing infrastructure (bye-bye GPOs and a bunch of Active Directory-enabled desktop management features, and you'll now keep to hire Linux admins) and a lot of their software that doesn't run under Mono or WINE and go with Linux instead?
XP to Vista is a MUCH easier migration than XP to Linux (one's a linear upgrade and the other is damn near a coporate paradigm shift).
I'm not saying that Corporations shouldn't consider Linux, but suggestion that the fear of Vista will drive people to Linux is insane (Vista is actually being very well receive by the business world... it's the home user who's more likely to say "forget it").
I think that the author hit the Fosters a little too hard. - drm237, on 10/12/2007, -7/+32This coming from someone with a Mac icon as their image...what a shock! Newegg's poll says it so it's obvious to them.
Vista is a pretty amazing system and having used it for almost a year now (since Feb CTP full time) it pains me to use XP again. Is it the best thing out there, no. Is it better than XP, yes. - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28The reasons businesses aren't eager to jump on a new platform:
Compatibility issues
Stability issues
Old platform works fine
Training issues
These are as valid for Linux vs. WinXP as they are for Vista vs. WinXP - perhaps even more so, since the compatibility and training issues between XP and Vista can arguably be predicted to be smaller than for XP and Linux. - neozeed, on 10/12/2007, -8/+28And the Linux 'experience' will drive them back to windows. The whole distro nonsense is what will prevent Linux from being anything real. Yeah dig me down, but really you know I'm right.
- kickarse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18The thing is that people WILL buy new OEM computers from Dell, HP, Compaq, Gateway that WILL come preloaded with Vista (home, premium, business) and won't want to revert back to XP. It's the same generality people made back when XP first hit the manufacturers.
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -28/+45In the mean time they can help themselves to one of the wonderful (and Free as in freedom) alternatives. Exploration leads to informed choices.
World's best desktop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSw8Yfg0tpM
Looking Glass on Ubuntu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQ4Nza34ak
Beryl 3D Window Layer Plugin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpIhoLzDOTY - LetsGoHawks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19What about all the core business apps that are Windows only?
There simply are not replacements for too many applications and YOU try to get support from the developer when you tell them your running it in emulation. Even more fun, tell all the users that you are going to be switching to a new suite of apps... then watch what happens to productivity for the first 3 to 6 months while they learn the new systems. That's assuming that your new apps are as good as the old ones.
What about all the tech support folks who will need to learn Linux well enough to support it?
I've done a lot of tech support over the years and most teams have one or two Linux heads and the rest knew what it was, some of us had used it a little bit, but the level of experience was nowhere near what it would need to be to support it. This applies all the way up the decision ladder. Why are the guys at the top going to argue that they should switch to a system that they don't know when that argument puts their employment status in jeopardy?
What about the fact that many large corporations are not all that interested in being on the bleeding edge anyway?
My company just did a complete switch to XP last year. When did XP come out? 2003? Why did we wait? Because 2000 worked. It did what we needed. If it hadn't been for a merger that resulted in huge changes across both companies, we may still be on 2000.
I'm not trying to bash Linux, but the barriers to adoption are many and they are formidable...... so don't go getting too excited about the Vista shortcomings.
( I wish I could find the DB programmer I worked with at Wells Fargo in Minneapolis back in 2000 who was uber-confident that by 2005 MS would be a shell of a corporation desperately clinging to it's remaining user base because the world had switched en mass to Linux and Open Source in general ) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Making [choose your distro] work painlessly is what will boost linux on the desktop. Don't rely on Vista to do what the community should already be working toward.
- JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Hey, I remember this article, I saw the same thing with Windows '98....and Windows 2000....and Windows XP...wait a tick, they do this every time a new Windows launches and Linux still hasn't gone anywhere, imagine that.
I love all these Digg articles where they treat Vista like it's a doomday machine that sure to bring one of the largest corporations to ever exist down to it's knees, begging before a company that it could have killed at any moment 5-10 years ago (but didn't to keep lawsuits at bay) and non-profit basement organizations. Christ people, get with the times. The large majority of reviews for Vista from publications that matter had nothing but good things to say about Vista. It's a great operating system, and benefits the casual and power user in ways that XP can't even do with 3rd party programs installed. So some people say they're not gonna upgrade right away, big deal, the same thing was said about XP, that it was just Windows 2000 with a prettier UI. Here we are years later and nobody in their right mind would choose Windows 2000 over Windows XP. That there was nothing about Windows XP pre-SP1 that made it not worthy to upgrade, but that didn't stop all the negative press.
There's not a single large OEM that has not signed on to sell Vista with their machines. That's reason enough to have no doubt that Linux pretty much will stay the same. The only way I see Linux growing is working out their own, huge problems before trying to rely on making smear campaigns against competiting OS' hoping to snag a few users through their own FUD that Vista will pull another '95, '98, 2000 and XP and kick their ass again. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Amen to that. Linux just uses Vista as an excuse to promote itself. By making itself _better_ it could do this all on it's own.
- MrSarcasm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17Isn't it like... [new windows version] launch will boots linux's market share for about 10 year now? :D
- superKduper, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16I think the iPHONE will make the world switch to LINUX based phones!
La-dee-dah! I live in a fantasy world with Unicorns and no DRM, and Macintoshs that don't crash! Wheeeee! - epimer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14As a Linux user, I find these stories and articles as embarrassing as the "Gaming on Linux is great!" ones. Both are wishful thinking, and nothing more.
Now to be dugg the hell down... - Jomwilli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Fanboy, fanboy, whatcha gonna do? Watcha gonna do with boring Ubuntu?
- bradleyland, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18"These people should be Microsofts core audience! The people that want bleeding edge technology!"
That's pretty funny. Bleeding edge folks are not Microsoft's core audience. Microsoft's core audience is the family that runs down to Best Buy, Circuit City, Staples, Office Max, etc every time they need a new computer. Bleeding edge folks are the people with the time and inclination to try other things, such as Linux, OS X, pirated copies of MS software. I'm sure that as far as MS is concerned, these people can rot. - fatdog789, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Cause a voluntary poll is always the best source of what people are really going to do...
A Linux guy, with a clear bias, claims that a competitors' software is opening the door for his own? What else do you think he is going to say?
Marked inaccurate. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I agree... I looked at Linux for 6 years continuously asking why there were 100 distros or more and how to know what to choose and use.. I've tried Fedora and Ubuntu but really, its way more confusing than it need be. There needs to be more unity in the Linux arena to release something that can actually compete with Windows.
Until then, its just a geeks OS. Great server OS though, obviously. - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -24/+33Vista is alienating users, its obvious to me especially when you look at Neweggs poll. These people should be Microsofts core audience! The people that want bleeding edge technology! Instead the vast majority are saying they won't be upgrading at all or until Service Pack 1.
https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/FeedBack/OnlinePollAll.asp - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9no. that's every year.
- geoken, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The articles main premise, that Vista is as much of an abrupt change as a Linux distro to an XP user, is ridiculous. The Vista learning curve includes clicking on 'documents' instead of 'my documents' and clicking on 'programs' in the start menu as opposed to hovering over it. For someone who doesn't care to use Vista's added features, using it will be identical to using XP.
- courtarro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Every time a new version of Windows is released, we see headlines like these. Vista will be no different than XP was. Existing power users will be slow to transition, citing the evolutionary nature of its changes and heavy focus on eye candy. Eventually, MS will release enough fixes that it's stable and we'll all find legitimate ways to upgrade for free, so we will. Linux will still be the server OS and Windows the desktop OS.
Linux has some lessons to learn before casual users consider it a viable alternative. Driver issues are a huge drawback, especially in the wireless networking and display driver areas. Licensing problems where some features must be downloaded separately create headaches. Gaim has simple UI issues. In general, Linux has made huge progress toward fixing some of the older problems, such as installation difficulty and reliance on the command line. However, there are still tons of people out (like me) there who are comfortable in Linux but still find Windows easier and more productive. Linux is simply too much work for the casual user.
Firefox is a good case study. Only once Firefox completely dominated power users was it able to move into the mainstream. It's still not there, but I think it's one of the best examples of OSS becoming popular among casual users. One important distinction is that it doesn't require constant support from the family nerd, whereas Linux does. As long as so many power users remain tied to Windows, Linux will not be able to go mainstream, and the only way to win over the majority of power users is to fix the nagging issues that make it so difficult at times. I like problem solving as much as the next person, but only when I feel that I'm pushing the system beyond its normal capabilities. I don't want a mess when I'm trying something that should be within the system's standard feature set. - superKduper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Here's a wake-up call. Linux on the Desktop--unless you're a committed Microsoft-hating GEEK--is a HORRIBLE experience. Yes, things "kinda-sorta" work, and at first glance look ok...but when you try to do a real project in OpenOffice, or GIMP, etc, you'd quickly see it's worth spending a few dollars for the real thing.
Every time there's a new OO release, I try it. I've never been impressed - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I upgraded from ME to XP- wasn't any hesitation for me.
Whatever team did ME needs to be hung by the balls. - drm237, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@PJBonoVox-
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Of course XP != Vista, what the hell were you expecting? XP < Vista. - courtarro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8When XP came out, people focused on how it was only a goofy UI upgrade over 2000. However, it clearly has deeper and more beneficial changes than just the UI. Vista is receiving the same treatment.
- consonance, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9And 2007 is the year of the Linux desktop, right?
Linux spokespeople are beginning to say that any Microsoft event will drive people to Linux. - klawz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6kickarse - I think you hit the nail on the head there. Corporations do a lot of leasing, they'll upgrade their desktops, and vista will come along with it. No extra cost except for user training (xp to vista), which will be far less cost than training someone going from xp to linux. Also, a lot of folks don't realise is that with the vista model, the will be far more drivers on "windows update" than before - so even if the system doesn't recognize the driver for your fancy new printer/scanner/camera/keyboard/headset etc, you can click on windows update (you could in xp, but it was crap), and there will be a far more likely chance the driver will be available.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6DX10 is a good reason since I'm a gamer, but I was speaking more about in the workplace rather than at home. There are things to take into account such as upgrading company machines with new software, depending on budget.
- Vermifax, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Note to self: Stock up on Tylenol & ibuprofen when Leopard drops.
The amount of flameboyism that day will be unbearable.... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9What do you do exactly? And what are your 'alternative' programs to mainstream software?
- dioscaido, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@kevin45: Actually I would argue Vista is a more compelling upgrade to businesses than the home user. Deployment tools are top notch, it finally has full support for limited users (which sort of works in XP but is a nightmare of app compat), group policy controls significantly beefed up, built-in IPSec w/ Network Access Protection (you can quarantine machines on the network that don't meet security standards), improved power management, full drive encryption, a more secure remote desktop, ad-hoc network support (so you can run a netmeeting among laptops in a conference room without connecting to corporate network), improved network printing, much improved monitoring tools, etc...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I can't believe linux fanboys are digging this down... hes 100% right about core windows apps.
"That's assuming that your new apps are as good as the old ones."
A+ - opethlike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6LOL. I just pee'ed a little.
- betterth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Once Linux supports the massive gains we're expecting from DX10 and allows fully DX10 compliant hardware like my 8800GTS to take advantage of that technology, maybe I'll consider Linux over Windows.
But Vista and DX10 will be a huge BLOW to PC gamers on Linux rather than a huge advantage. Many gamers who are upgrading into DX10 will go for the DX10 OS. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Is 2007 the Year of Linux?
Or...will it be postponed for the 10th time?
This "Linux 'gonna rule *****" is getting old. - fugazi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I dont see how this would boost linux adoptions since first off it is nowhere near ready for the average computer user. You think they are going to want to use the terminal at all or even edit a text file just to get that widescreen resolution. Please in my mind as of now linux is so far behind windows/mac for the average person. Something is either complicated or lacks support in any single aspect.
- indiekiduk, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13Eh? Digg UP of course. Everyone knows Linux has severe usabilty issues and is no where near fit for use by general windows home users. Yes geeks love it but thats because they actually enjoy recompiling their kernel when they install some new hardware or software.
And yes I understand and appreciate open source free software if only Linux was easier to use. - FireStrife, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I dont think that a big boost will come to linux just from vista I think its mostly gonna keep people staying with XP longer. Those programmers and developers who have heard of linux have probably tried it. I think there will be an improvement in the number of Linux users but not a great amount. But only time will tell once vista is officially released.
- izmophonik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The people out there that say enterprises are not going to upgrade to Vista couldn't be more wrong. The largest companies will be adopting Vista earlier than anyone. I would know because I was at the Vista TAP-Airlift in Seattle, WA last Feb of 06. That was the launch event for corporations who will be deploying Vista in their enterprise within 6 months of RTM. TAP stands for Technology Adoption Program. The companies that were there are some of the largest in the world including Ford, Lockheed-Martin, the company I work for and many others from around the globe. The thing with licensing that no one realizes is that corporations can upgrade their licensing to Vista easily and cheaply as part of they annual True-Up software agreement. Vista licenses are backwards compatible so virtually any large company with a volume software agreement will upgrade to Vista licenses at the end of their annual agreement. So, this story is really a bunch of speculation that really will never come to fruition. Our company already has 15,000 Vista licenses and we've already started to deploy it. Linux who?
- billtaylor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5until they get printing and WPA to work without having to compile something or use a work around, NO THANKS!!!!
- rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It's deja-vu all over again.
The year of Linux in the desktop, whichever it was supposed to be, is gone.
Linux is absolutely amazing where it belongs, in the server room and in the bedroom of the 3% of the geeky population, but most of the average Joes will keep using whatever comes preinstalled in their Dells, and those very few who decide to rebel against MS and try something else will probably go for Mac OS X instead.
I don't see my granny editing xorg.conf to get the damn fonts in the right size anytime soon. - LetsGoHawks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4A lot of corporations don't care what comes on the PC's they buy/lease. They unbox, image, and deploy. It's takes way too long to have folks sitting around installing apps on new PC's.
Start an image, do other stuff for 30 minutes, come back and it's done. Even faster if you have a machine that can do 5 or 10 (or more) hard drives at a time. - klawz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9@kevin45
Quit lying. You're spreading nothing bud FUD, I don't even believe you've used Vista, let alone longer than a few hours. Vista isn't the God-Send OS, but I will say that it isn't as you describe either. It isn't a resource hog, by far. It actually tunes itself more so than any other OS to what Hardware you have. You have a ***** GFX card? Well it will turn off Aero, thing like this help make it a great OS, not perfect, but these types of things help the OS adjust itself to not be a resource hog. People like you make Linux have a BAD name by spreading lies and FUD. - skinfitz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4...or fired.
- Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It seems like the entire WWW has turned into a giant ball of FUD.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3WOW isn't that a surprise - a linux big wig says linux can do good when vista rolls out. These are really getting old dont ya think....?
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -18/+21vista will probably have a positive effect on linux.... but mainly in the corporate and enthusiast areas (both these areas will be disadvantaged by vista and are already warming to linux anyway)
the average user will still stick it out with windows even if it causes pain, because it still has all their stuff captive. - dioscaido, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@coredump0x01. You've at the very least reinstalled distros on the machine? :) I can't imagine sticking with a 4 y/o kernel, given the platform improvements and not to mention security fixes with each subsequent kernel version.
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