What is Digg?104 Comments
- OBKenobi, on 10/11/2007, -18/+77They have to go where the marketshare is. Can't do anything about that.
However, they COULD at least Open Sauce their drivers for volunteers to work on if they can't handle it themselves. I bet the Linux drivers would quickly turn out better than the Vista spec shenanigans Microsoft has them stick to.
Btw, that title is kind of lame. I would have gone with nothing less than: "How Microsoft Sabotages Linux Drivers."
We're at war here, folks. Don't forget that. - PixelEater, on 10/11/2007, -7/+58Vista didn't "make" Creative Labs do anything.
- ahawks, on 10/11/2007, -1/+37It's not like Creative Labs is pissing off just the Linux users.
I upgraded to Vista only to find that Creative Labs has no plans to ever release a Vista driver for my SB Live!
So not only do they not care about supporting Linux with their new hardware, they don't even want to support Windows on their old hardware. - Aliarse, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21The Answer is simple.
Don't buy a Creative Soundcard. - xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -4/+20@fatdog789
your an idiot, first the complain is that X-FI drivers for linux are delayed because of vista software and drivers. Then a digg user complained that creative SB Live! cards wont get drivers in vista according to creative. SB Live! cards have been supported in linux for a long long time. The other issue is creative isn't working with ALSA so that ALSA can reverse engineer drivers for them.
Thirdly, I like how the MS fanbois started defending vista, no one spoke ill of vista, the problem is that creative isn't releasing drivers for their customers. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17@fatdog
"Or you guys really complaining that the 50 guys who use Linux and have SB Lives won't get to use them in whatever distro they might be using?"
You're reading the comments wrong. Also, I just so happened to install a SB Live! card (gutted out of an unused computer) for my linux box. Worked perfectly. All I had to do was stick it in. - Herolint, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14I'm actually glad to hear the news. Now I know to avoid buying one of these cards (at least of the time being). I don't mind hardware not supporting Linux as long as I know up front.
- mushroom, on 10/11/2007, -6/+19"It was bad enough when it took ATI about six months to deliver a Radeon X1000 "R500" Linux driver, but it will be over two years since Creative first introduced the X-Fi series and we still have no Linux support -- thanks to Microsoft Vista. "
So how is this Windows Vista fault? - Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -6/+18Linux users just avoid the vendor's products at all costs.
Windows users threaten legal action.
Looks like Microsoft is rubbing off on its customers. - TheRealToma, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14http://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Vendor-Creative_Labs
"Card delivered to developers. Completely new architecture. Creative actively preventing support due to no datasheets being released to ALSA developers. Reverse engineering work not started due to lack of time."
C'mon Creative. Pretty easy to release some information. Saves you spending precious time to make Vista drivers and lets us make our own. Stop being so damn retarded. - xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11the X-FI cards have been out for 2 years now, if they didn't want to make drivers they should of worked with ALSA, as they had done previously, so ALSA could reverse engineer drivers for the X-FI cards.
- Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -4/+13Selfish and self-obsessed?
Maybe this article will jog your memory.......
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/nvidia/pissed-off-gamers-ready-to-sue-nvidia-over-crap-vista-drivers-234718.php - victorc26, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9And Sound Quality
- interiot, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37695
"The changes to the audio implementation and subsystem were quite major, requiring a fundamental rewrite of the driver model and features to take account of the lack of direct hardware support" Creative also cited a change in WHQL procedures by Microsoft that have been "time consuming" and resulted in further significant delays. - Diggtatorship, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8I don't like it, but I agree... what did you expect them to do? its a business after-all.
Until we can show them that lack of linux drivers is actually going to significantly affect their bottom line, they're not going to change.
Stop buying it if you want to protest - victorc26, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Auzentech sound cards. Good audiophile cards.
- xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -4/+10no your right, but to blame vista is just poor reason the X-FI cards have been out for over 2 years, vista went into beta about 1 yr ago. Creative is just lazy, I am sure if they just worked with ALSA they would not even have to worry about making linux drivers.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7And hardware mixing...
- Reno582, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6It seems to be creatives fault, Vista's beta has been out for more then 6 months theres no excuse for late drivers, this applies to nvidia as well.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Games.
- Seften, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Perhaps I would just like basic functionality out of my X-Fi XtremeMusic in linux, right now I have to change my headset to onboard when I switch back and forth between windows and linux. Just basic playback of sounds is all I'm looking for.
- Sepeteus, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7"Who even uses a separate sound card these days?"
Those who like to have 3d positional audio with headphones. Those who like better sound quality. Those who have ears. And many more. - nreisan, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9this creative problem has nothing to do with microsoft, this is creative being lazy with drivers once again (no suprises here)
Have you you used vista properlly? I've been using vista for a few months now and i have less problems than XP, looks great, runs well (granted i have a good PC) a good improvement over XP if you ask me. XP is overated *****, might aswell have stayed with windows 2000, XP added nothing to 2000. At least vista add's some new things that help with normal using of a computer imho. - Matri, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5We ARE surprised. And this is not "fast". Creative just released Vista drivers about a week ago. Vista came out earlier this year, and the beta is about a year old. This is unacceptable.
- JonForTheWin, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Yet another reason selling hardware then refusing to provide specs should be illegal as it IS a form of fraud . . think about it, use of the hardware /they own/ is at someone else's mercy.
- dtfinch, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Their loss.
I probably wasn't going to buy one anyways. - Matri, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3From http://www.tfd.com/dupe
dupe
(dp, dyp)
n.
1. An easily deceived person.
2. A person who functions as the tool of another person or power.
tr.v. duped, dup·ing, dupes
To deceive (an unwary person). See Synonyms at deceive.
[French, from Old French, probably alteration of huppe, hoopoe (from the bird's stupid appearance); see hoopoe.]
dupa·bili·ty n.
dupa·ble adj.
duper n. - cynicist, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@ estvir
We're complaining about ATI/AMD because we've been promised better drivers for years now. So far all we have is a nicer control panel... - spartan777, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3exactly. I won't be getting a creative card for this summer's upgrade cycle. I'll be sticking to my old SB 2 card.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6"Microsoft is pushing standards and not supporting a ton of old hardware in the process."
They are not pushing new standards. All the drivers are having to be rewritten to fit their trusted computing scheme. It is nothing to do with better support and everything to do with their devil pack with the various **AAs out there.
Essentially the drivers are being altered to enable the OS to restrict what you do with them. - prammy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Creative is pretty stupid about the way the release drivers for their new cards and it is not just for Linux.
When SB Live! cards came out I picked up a Live Platinum 5.1. I was running Windows 2000 at the time and the driver disk included a Windows NT driver. A few months later after reinstalling Win2k, I went to the Creative Site and saw they had a newer 2000 driver available and downloaded it. Now the funny part is that the driver was an upgrade and could not install it unless I had the old NT driver installed already. And of course they did not have the old driver for download, the only way you could install it was if you had the CD.
This was the case till the Audigy came out and the creative released the FULL drivers for the Live!. Same drama with Audigy. You could not download the full driver suite from their site. Tough luck for people who lost / scratched their driver cds. - Combat, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6This IS because of microsoft! Microsoft requires that all drivers for sound cards and video cards used in vista be CLOSED SOURCE. I guess they require it to prevent cracking vista's DRM. I'm not sure where i read that, but it could have been here:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html - aim2future, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3As what every hardware manufacturer should do, release enough documentation so good drivers can be written.
- fredclown, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@ OBKenobi
Microsoft is not sabotaging the Linux drivers. They are not forcing Creative to develop Vista driver over Linux drivers. Creative has decided to develop the Vista driver first because it will bring them more money. It plain an simple economics. They are not going to shoot their business model in the foot just to make the minority geek community happy. - prammy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3My nforce4 chipset has pretty good sound quality.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4M-Audio, maker of top of the line sound cards and other high end audio equipment. Their stuff is a bit pricey, but you get what you pay for.
I use this exact card here, for Linux AND Windows: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Revolution71-main.html - Matri, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I have to agree with your comment about onboard sound for now, seeing as for some ***** idiotic obscure reason, Vista does NOT ship with DirectSound drivers.
WHY?!?!! - Agares, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Direct Sound is no longer supported with Vista, hence why creative is having so many problems with their drivers and software. EAX, CMSS, etc. all use DirectSound in order to work.
- 99butcher99, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5lets see now, do drivers for 90% of the computer users or 1%.. HMMM... which would make business sense...
Make drivers for an OS that people pay for or a freebee... HMMMM Wonder what I would do if I was in charge...
I think perhaps I might just make drivers for the 90%... (made up percentages.. you know 85.6% of all statistics are just made up)
Business wise this one is a no brainer. They sell cards to windows users and Linux users so if you want to use the newest hardware use windows... - venom8599, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@ahawks
I know it's a kludgey solution, but you can find modded drivers for the SB Live cards online for Vista. Most of them will only result in stereo support, but it's better than nothing since Creative isn't going to bother.
NGO Modded drivers: http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=Files&go=cat&dwn_cat_id=20
KX Project: http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/down.php
This has been my only Vista gripe, and it's hardly Microsoft's fault that Creative won't get off their ass and support their own products. - kolop1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I'm not trying to flame, but, from a business standpoint, would it not make sense to make sure the drivers work on the O/S that brings you the most money? Linux users make up about 2% of the computer market, they don't make money from the Linux users.
- Ratteler, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Call me when those Linux drivers are done, and I'll consider if I need your card.
- srouquette, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I wanted to buy a X-Fi, but the Vista support is ridiculous, and Linux support is non-existent.
I'll stick with the onboard audio chip... - BouvToTheMax, on 10/11/2007, -16/+18Figures Linux would get the shaft to Windows! Blarg nothing like alittle sand in the eyes!
- Theli, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2,----[ Quote deadbaby]
| Who even uses a separate sound card these days? What's wrong with on-board audio for 99.9% of the world?
`----
I don't know what is wrong with on-board audio for 99.9% of the world, but then again I never buy hardware for 99.9% of the worlds population. I only buy hardware for myself, and for my me on-board sound cards just don't cut it for playing music. I have to use one while running Linux, and quite frankly I find the sound to be muddy and unclear compared to my X-Fi.
By the way... where did 99.9% come from? Care to cite your sources? - Theli, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2,----[ Quote Article]
| X-Fi Linux driver will not even be in a public beta until the end of third quarter or fourth quarter this year.
`----
That's actually earlier than I had expected. I though Creative Labs had forgotten about Linux drivers completely.
They make great hardware, but man are they horrible when it comes to driver support. - Klowner, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Indeed, this news certainly puts the nail in the possibility-of-buying-an-XFi coffin for me. I guess I'll stick with my SB Live! which continues to work just fine.
- kaje, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6"Yet another reason selling hardware then refusing to provide specs should be illegal as it IS a form of fraud . . think about it, use of the hardware /they own/ is at someone else's mercy."
Refusing to provide specs? What do you call that little section at the bottom of the box that reads "Minimum System Requirements?" - msgyrd, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1As a linux user I just research what I want before I buy it. No linux compatability? No money from me, and I don't recommend them to anyone else (regardless of the OS choice).
- ahhell, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Hmmm....bury as lame, inaccurate, or spam?
Decisions...decisions. -
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