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Vista Aiding Linux Desktop, Strategist Says

pcmag.com — Windows Vista has probably created the single biggest opportunity for the Linux desktop to take market share, Cole Crawford, an IT strategist at Dell, said in an address titled, "The Linux Desktop —Fact, FUD or Fantasy?" at the annual LinuxWorld Conference & Expo......

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doolittle, on 10/10/2007, -9/+119"To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows box, you just have to work on it."

Ha that reminds me of a joke:

OSX is for users who do not want to know why their PC works
Linux is for users who want to know why their PC works
DOS is for users who want to know why their PC does not work
Windows is for users who do not want to know why their PC does not work
- Stonekeeper, on 10/10/2007, -6/+17That's not a joke! It's as if confucious himself wrote it!
- zcreem, on 10/10/2007, -18/+4Windows is for users that need to work and don't have much choice if they want it to work.
  - zcreem, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well that comment was understood by all I see.
    You fan boys crack me up, it's a tool not a bloody life style.
- EvilWalksWithMe, on 10/10/2007, -25/+7There is nothing wrong with windows... Why can't linux user and osx users just accept some people do actually like windows without slagging the os and it's users off every chance they get.
  - JonForTheWin, on 10/10/2007, -9/+32Stopped reading and buried at "There is nothing wrong with windows...".
  - sqrt7744, on 10/10/2007, -10/+4because that wouldn't be fun. Everybody loves slinging sh*t.
  - mrsteveman1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16I use windows all the time, primarily because the windows Explorer makes OS X finder look stupid for file management, but i would be the first to tell you windows has serious problems, and microsoft should be fined, split up, and cut down until the company can't influence anything related to computers ever again.
    
    And someone needs to hit steve balmer in the face, hard.
    - 9a3eedi, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10I agree on the Steve Balmer part :P
    - SVPirate, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4As do I - preferably by 'hit' I was hoping you mean with an oncoming freight train...
  - SVPirate, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5"There is nothing wrong with windows... "
    
    Wrong. There is something wrong with any OS, Windows is no exception, in fact it's the direct opposite, there is lots wrong with it. However, I wouldn't say it was either unusable (at least in XP's case), I use XP daily at work with only limited amounts of swearing and frustration, and I use it at home for gaming. It has it's uses, but there are some things I don't like using it for too.
    - longbow486, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4like my servers, thats left to slackware
- Scruffydan, on 10/10/2007, -11/+1I take it you have never installed automatix
- Spuy767, on 10/10/2007, -10/+2I think this article is inaccurate. Vista is a chance for an OS X powergrab. People are going to say to themselves, and I'm not tallking about Digg reading techies, I'm talking about Joe Schmoe who couldn't upgrade his computer if you gave him parts and an instructional video, "Well, if I've got to buy a new computer to run Vista anyway, why not get a Mac." But the article is correct in the sense that the technically savvy user will say, "I'm not upgrading my PC just to run an eye-candy laden OS. I'm getting Linux."
  - Wootery, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7"Vista is a chance for an OS X powergrab"
    There will never be an OS X powergrab. Few people are willing to spend hundreds more for the nicer OS.
    (I'm using OS X right now - I'm just realistic.)
    - netant, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The truth is even worse than that.
      
      There will never be an OS X powergrab is because of Steve Jobs. He is the penultimate marketer. Apple's core value is not about taking desktop share. Its about maximizng profits with branding. Jobs wants to sell BWM's and Bentleys, not Toyota Corollas.
      
      You need deep pockets and a vision to go to war with Microsoft. Apple has neither.
- omarciddo, on 10/10/2007, -7/+4Oh a HELL OF A LOT can go wrong with Linux. Poorly written drivers, dependency/repository issues, and let's not forget that nagging black window issue for fans of Beryl. Everyone on all sides needs to quit acting all superior; any novice can ***** up any OS, and any pro user can make any OS work like a charm.
subgeniusd, on 10/10/2007, -1/+23From the article: "The interoperability agreements that Microsoft has signed with Linux vendors, from Novell to Xandros and Linspire, have also had largely positive results so far, he said"

Well that is certainly an "interesting" viewpoint. I'm curious what the positive results could possibly be. Anyone have any actual data?
- epileet, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5/agree
  companies making deals with microsoft r sell outs
  - Invid, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6*ARE*
    
    Were the "a" and the "e" really that much of a burden?
  - over9, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2like digg amirite?
- GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9"I'm curious what the positive results could possibly be. Anyone have any actual data?"
  
  Novell have been seeing a strong increase in sales but that trend started before the MS deal. I can see that the patent covenant probably made a lot of management types happier in the US. Then again they could have just used RHEL since they directly take on any responsibility for patent infringement.
- MeneerR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1THIS IS HOW IT HELPED!
  
  It makes the choice for linux distrobution EASIER.
  Now, the only mainstream distro's left are Red Hat and Debian/Ubuntu..
Kr4t05, on 10/10/2007, -15/+10I'm certainly not the first to say this, and I'm sure I won't be the last:

DUH?!
- dbr_onix, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Not really - I always thought the 'Vista is making people switch to LInux' thing was silly.. Why would people switch to Linux instead of keeping with their current Windows XP install...
  Until I remembered about Vista being pre-installed on new computers - if I bought a computer that had Vista, I'd quite probably install Debian or something along side, since the sort time I used Vista, it was kind of annoying..
  - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Do you know how hard it is getting a machine with an OEM install of XP now? I've grown tired of dealing with Vista because none of my wifes apps (specialized apps for doctors...you know, the people that keep you alive) won't run in Vista for a plethora of reasons. At this point, I'm about to buy Dell, but I'd rather just get her an off the shelf computer (she needs it ASAP)...grrrggggg...
    
    So anyway, the ultimate irony is that Wine (and Cedega) can run her apps (actually about 85-90% of them) just fine, but Vista can only run about 5% of them, even in compatibility mode. Oh and the wife prefers to use Linux because she has less problems and because I customized the hell out of Fluxbox, it is WAY snapper than her XP machine (basically the same specs). Good times...
7of7, on 10/10/2007, -17/+67It's too bad Linux evangelists spend so much time trying to make Vista look like a failure. They'd do well to instead tout the cool features of Linux.
- chrono13, on 10/10/2007, -9/+17This is especially true in the face of updates. Microsoft has a lot of man hours and money to throw at Vista. The latest patches show they aren't satisfied with letting Vista's criticisms go unanswered. If Microsoft can ship a good service pack 1, the advantage that Linux currently has would be cut short and it would again have to rely upon how and why Linux is better rather than how terrible Vista or XP may be.
  - BrandonMills, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7The other end of that argument - if Vista isn't fixed by SP1, many businesses are just going to skip it and go for the next edition of Windows later.
    - estvir, on 10/10/2007, -8/+7What exactly is so wrong with it? I hear people screaming on Digg about how awful it is yet when I ask I'm presented with "LOL UR A FANBOI THERES LIKE DRM!!!111eoneone"
      - Septimus, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5Because this is digg... there is no other reason.
        
        Pretty ***** article. Especially the numbers. Ooooh a 34% increase in *nix developers. 34% of something that in a lot of ways is pretty unquantifiable due to it's nature.
      - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3@Septimus you are an idiot. I suggest you visit the DoL sometime and education yourself. You might also want to look up the word unquantifiable, it does not mean what you think it means.
        
        estvir: The problems with Vista have been enumerated time and time again. Lemme sum up:
        1) It's slow
        2) It's a resource hog
        3) It doesn't scale
        4) Most games play more poorly in Vista
        5) Large amount of bugs (ANI Flaw, Update flaw, file moving flaw, etc)
        6) It doesn't play well in the enterprise
        7) UAC is more of an annoyance than actual security
        8) Many of the APIs are borked
        9) Developers are being railroaded into the .Net 3.0 framework
        10) ReadyBoost is pointless unless you have 512mb RAM
      - cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1 1) Depends on your system, and whether you give it time to optimize itself and finishing indexing.
        
        2) It makes use of idle resources more than its predessesor, it also is more efficient at releasing those resources.
        
        3) It was designed with multithreaded, multicore in mind.
        
        4) Most games still play within a reasonable margin, and are expected to improve along with drivers support and See #1
        
        5) Those are not large bugs. The ANI flaw in particular shows Vista handling the issue better (by default) than previous verisons of Windows.
        
        6) It plays quite well in an Enterprise that is already moving upward with MS solutions. Arguably MS could do a better job with interoperability.
        
        7) UAC is only the tip of the iceberg of new security in Vista. You can turn it off and still have a system that is more secure against the more popular Windows attacks.
        
        8) "Many of the APIs are borked" - Such As? There are new APIs, and a new awareness of security habits in using the older APIs, but I was not aware of any that were borked by Vista,
        rather the OS is built to protect itself against API designs that were borked to start with (Yes, we can blame MS for not thinking thru their earlier designs).
        
        9) "Developers are being railroaded into the .Net 3.0 framework" - Only if they are trying to make apps that work with WCF, WPF, WCS, WWF etc...
        See # 8... if they were already working around pitfalls in the earlier APIs, they can still code using the older APIs.
        MS is perhaps too excited about the new frameworks introduced with Vista, and express the companies own efforts to write new code utilizing those ideas.
        But ignoring that excitement is also not going to help most coders who hope to make newer apps on the platform.
        
        10) ReadyBoost is a good idea that needs a better implementation of prefect algorithms and flash devices that are a generation faster that the current models
        Right now in most scenarios is hardly provides a significant boost in performance, but it is a step in the right direction of bridging solid state and magnetic media.
    - cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1" many businesses are just going to skip it and go for the next edition of Windows later."
      
      That's the same thing people said about XP in the first year after it was launched. Vista is considerably ahead in comparison, the largest areas of fixing on Vista are maturing driver and application support.
  - eclectro, on 10/10/2007, -8/+11You forget the fact that in Vista requires most people to upgrade their hardware as well. Which is a large downside for many people. Beside that, there are many who are tired of the forced "upgrade mill."
    - sirbeta, on 10/10/2007, -9/+7This really isn't true. My 5 year old machine, which I put together with parts that totaled maybe $500 at the time, ran Vista just fine. I will admit that since I'd build the machine, I have actively upgraded the video card (the latest update on that machine was a GF6600GT before I decided a few weeks ago to build a new machine and keep the old one as spare) and added an extra 512 megs of ram (which is now 1GB). MOST Vista users will not really need to upgrade their machine to use the OS, and the whole "4 gigs of memory or nothing" FUD is just that. Everyone is forgetting that this same damn thing happened with XP. Everyone was outright outraged at the kind of machine you needed to run XP well. We go through this every time, and no one seems to remember. In a few years, Vista will be working its way deeply into the XP user base.
      - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The difference is that home users are a very small part of the market, Vista does not work in the enterprise. XP on the other hand integrated fine with Server 2k and works wellish with 2k3.
      - cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Vista was designed to be easier to configure, easier to deploy, and supports several hundred more group policy objects than XP in the same business context. Most of the changes made for Vista on the enterprise came from feedback on how to make it work better than XP in the same space.
        
        Can you please give examples of Vista not working as well in the enterprise? Or may I assume you mean enterprises that are not necessarily based on Windows Server?
    - estvir, on 10/10/2007, -8/+6By 'most' people I assume you only mean anyone with a 3+ year old machine, right? Hell, probably older than that.
      
      But than again, I bet you think Vista is horrendously overpriced because of the Ultimate version. See what I'm getting at? I really, really, hope you do.
      - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1You aren't very bright, is that what you are getting at?
    - Septimus, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5BS. Same with *nix in a way, but a number of times you need to downgrade to find hardware that works.
      
      Yes yes.. it's the manufacturers fault.
- eclectro, on 10/10/2007, -7/+12I think that it is a testament to Windows suckage that Linux gets any traction at all. But the fact is, outside of being able to play a game, I don't see any advantage to running vista.
  
  Oh yeah - - cool Linux feature -- no viruses.
  - EvilWalksWithMe, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1no virus's yet... yes. But you just wait until linux really starts getting a market share worth the virus makers time... then they will come. and in force.
    - EbilPhish, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Except they will only work on specific Linux distros as they need a specific software version and they will probably be patched within days.
      Also most of the time it won't effect the entire system since it won't have root access. And if they did become a problem things like SecLinux would be implemented on more distros by default.
    - SuckMyDigg, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Exactly... Try compiling a program that's supposed to work for a specific distribution in another distribution with another version of the compiling software or libraries. It can be done, but it's not longer a simple point, click, virus game anymore.
    - schoate09, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3Linux won't take off until there's only one distro being primarily used (for compatibility), at which point, the majority of users that run that distro will be targeted.
    - BlackJackJester, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0i love how anything and everything that could resemble a microsoft defence is automatically dugg down.
  - Yazilliclick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Here's some news for you... Vista does NOT suck. I know it's a shock. The only reason that Linux, and apple, gain more market share because of it is because it is the natural practice when something new comes along to look at the alternatives. It's a testament to how decent Vista is that neither Linux nor Apple are making any larger headway than they are.
- Poland, on 10/10/2007, -12/+5If it wasn't for the fact that Vista sucks so much, we might have gotten to it.
  
  As it is, it might take a while.
  - estvir, on 10/10/2007, -7/+4How does it 'suck so much' (Oh-so-eloquent)?
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14You know the day that Digg is ***** when 7of7, the biggest mother of all trolls, gets +24 diggs. Must be snowing in hell now as well
  - arjie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. His last sentence is true.
rappermas, on 10/10/2007, -10/+15Right now, Vista is helping every bit of Microsoft's competition. It's the standard argument. "Look at how ***** Vista is. Use our product."
- cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Much the same arguement was used when Windows 2000 and XP came out. It does provide a window of opportunity (no pun intended) for the competition. The problem is, historically MS has been able to catch up to the majority of their pre-launch promises, and deliver an updated product that closes the window (or at least narrows it considerably).
  
  I do hope the competition makes some inroads over the next few months that will benefit all of us; but they are not going to be able to build to the point where Vista is aiding Linux adoption any more than it is aiding the installed based of XP machines to stay put.
sloppychris, on 10/10/2007, -10/+28I switched because I figured to be better off learning Linux if I had to learn a new OS anyway. I'm not looking back.
- SuckMyDigg, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1At this point you can only hope to work in some kind of technical back-end field in a lost and hidden data center. Sorry to say but MS does still have the lion's share of the market when it comes to actually doing business. I've had experience in both ends and the one that pays you much better for being point-click-and-stupid is anything microsoft. Being a creative genius in linux will only save you time, but won't make you any money since you'll be expected to do so much more.
  - Hermmunster, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Earlier someone in this portion of the thread stated that to say that X sucks so use Y is a bad way to do things. Your comment is doing the same.
    
    You can still be a sucky point and click stupid user under linux (just like Windows). So, that's really moot.
    
    But I don't necessarily agree with them on saying it is bad to say one sucks so use the other. We do that all the time, and not just in computers. One person says X video card performance sucks so use Y video card. Someone says X TV sucks so buy Y TV. Someone says X game sucks so by Y game. Someone says X car sucks so buy Y car.
    
    We do it all the time. You want it to win on merits, that's fine. I think Linux would win for stability, openness, and non-restrictiveness. It also would be the ONE OS that protects your privacy. Microsoft has been violating your privacy for some time now with the WGA/WGN programs and now we find that under Vista there are somewhere around 47 other programs that constantly spy on you by collecting data and returning that back to Microsoft.
    
    To top that off it is hard to say that Linux has this strength or that without pointing out that the competition doesn't or that they are doing something very questionable in the morals and ethics department (not to mention in the legal department).
    
    Microsoft also didn't get to the top without doing a lot of bad things. The only real way to point that out is to state specifically what they did bad and how they harmed the consumer and continue to make competition almost impossible.
    
    This is just life. We always point out the bad in order to recognize what is good elsewhere.
    
    That's pretty much it. I use Linux and love it. I wish I never had to use Windows nor ever hear about it. I wish I didn't have to contend with day in and day out the crap Microsoft subjects us to. No to mention my through belief that Microsoft thinks it is special and unique and can do things no one else would do that violate my rights and my privacy. They aren't special, and they are just barely able to produce something that doesn't break the next day or spy on you or destroy what many believe is our ultimate right to privacy (remember your computer is an extension of your home).
  - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1WTF are you talking about. Last I saw MCSEs capped around 75k when *nix guys capped around 120k.
Synapse84, on 10/10/2007, -9/+24it's pretty sad when die hard windows fanboys (me since 3.1) will not even touch vista... staying with XP as long as i can then switchin to Linux.

i'll just be bored to death cause i'll miss all my favorite windows apps and windows games :(
- Toshibi, on 10/10/2007, -7/+24Actually, I've found for the most part, I miss Windows less and less by the day. And there are games, you just have to look for them.
  - Megatog615, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Why are comments like your getting dugg down?
  - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2There's this cool tool called Cedega and it is like Wine, but specifically made for games. The cool part is that you can play a large number of popular Windows games in Linux. I play WoW on my Linux box all the time...
    - roguetrick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Hope your not paying for Cedega just to play WoW.
  - MeneerR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Don't forget the native games. I've found some jewules.
    For example, i'm totally hooked to Urban Terror. I don't need counter-strike anymore.
- zongamin, on 10/10/2007, -6/+15Yes but you wont be spending hours every week running spyware and virus checks
  - HigherLogic, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7Seriously, it's getting old.
    - GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7It's still true though.
    - Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5No it isn't..
    - cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"Hours every week?" No that isn't true. At least for people that understand idle priority and cron jobs.
- Scruffydan, on 10/10/2007, -9/+10have you actually tried Vista? I am running it now and it is better that XP in so many ways. Widgets, instant search, new start menu ,even UAC is great (now I dont have to run as admin, and there are very few popups), flip3D is actually a lot more useful than I thought it would be when you have many windows open, taskbar thumbnails. Nothing major, but many little things that add up to a nicer experience than XP.
  
  There is so much Vista FUD out there that it is hard to get at the truth, but Vista runs fine on one gig of RAM, it runs fine on older hardware (though you may need to replace your integrated vid card if you want aero)
  - KataLieb, on 10/10/2007, -9/+4Might be nice if you dont care aout your privacy and would rather give MS and NSA full access to your computer..What was it again...Microsoft co-operates with the NSA to "improve security"? With all the wiretapping and other illegal and immoral activities the US gov is involved in presently, id be helluva worried about a statement like that, especially when its public knowledge that Vista gathers more info on more things than any Windows before it, and sends it to MS servers...
    Microsofts EULAs have always stated that they will not spy on you, but WILL release information on any illegal activities to the authorities. Just read the EULA of MSN Messenger and youll get my point. What prevents MS from routing all that data to NSA as well, especially messenger services etc.? Nothing.
    - Yarnage, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7You're a moron. The NSA does not have full access to your computer. You do realize that original article was determined to be entirely wrong and FUD, right? Right?
    - Yazilliclick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Of course he/she doesn't realize that. Just another moron with their head up their ass being cool by being against the man.
  - GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Aero works fine on my GMA 950. My issue is why my DVD-RW won't register if I boot it without a disc in the drive. If I forget to have a disc in there when I boot then usually I have to waste my time on a restart. Really annoying.
  - krunchyfrog, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6but Vista runs fine on one gig of RAM
    This is where you lost me. 512 megs of RAM = 200$ Vista legit copy = 200$
    Ubuntu = 0$.
    
    What would you choose? Have to spend 400$ for eye candy or nothing for something secure?
    - chhenry, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4what kind of ram are you buying for 512MB @ $200?
    - donte, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7$200 for 512MB of RAM? Seriously? Not much of a bargain shopper are you.... $30-$40 tops.
    - krunchyfrog, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Sorry, I meant 2GB for laptop RAM.
    - Scruffydan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Which would I choose? it depends on what i plan to do. Ubuntu is very capable, but it wont play most games and openoffice isn't sufficiently compatible with the crappy (but often used) MS .doc format.
      
      Those two things push me towards windows everytime
    - Yazilliclick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You mean 2GB of laptop ram for $200 and isntead poot 512? Sorry but no. You're obviously a ***** moron who doesn't know what the ***** you're talking about. Heck you didn't even bother to price check your correction. 2GB of decent laptop memory is about $115 CAD. You can buy an OEM copy of Vista Home Premium for about the same. Regardless of that most machines these days have 1GB of RAM, that's why MS felt safe in making their OS use that much and use it well. When people go out for a machine they aren't thinking about getting it with 128MB of RAM and needing an OS that can run on that. The RAM is a mute point except for the geeks running their 8 year old PII in their closet as a web server.
      
      And maybe it's about time you Vista fan boys learned that everybody knows Ubuntu is free. The problem is that it has plenty of issues, lack of support and is far from as user friendly as windows. So I'll choose, and have chosen, to go with Vista and enjoy my time rather than continuing to deal with the many frustrations of using Ubuntu the few times I've tried it out or worked on it.
  - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4512 megs of RAM = 200$
    
    As the old Linux fanboy mantra goes, if you don't have any real argument, just make something up.
    
    OSS zealots accuse MS of FUD every five seconds, but it seems to me that the amount of sheer lies and fabricated problems simply to make Windows seem bad is simply staggering.
    - MadLeper, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5Just more examples of how the anti-MS campaign being run by the FSF is getting more desperate.
      
      Expect to see an increase in the number of FUD posts by FSF shills once Vista SP1 is released...
      - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3It's quite sad really. I wish that the FOSS community would just ignore Microsoft entirely and set about making the best OS that they can, instead of sinking such huge amounts of time and effort into slagging someone off.
        
        If you can make software that is good it will sell itself on its own regard, and you cannot gain marketshare by badmouthing the opposition - as that is just insulting the people you want to convert.
        
        Firefox sold itself on its own merits by being a really well engineered piece of software , and word of mouth about how it was good, not be banging on non stop about how crap IE is (despite IE being crap).
- fugazied, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Just get a Mac + an x-box. Unix stability and security, beautiful OSX, other incredible mac software (vmware fusion, adobe on mac runs beautifully). Then simply use the x-box for movies and games.
  
  You'll find yourself 25% more productive on a mac box (well I have, doing graphic design and web design).
  - nuclearpenguins, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Unless you want to play MMO's or RTS games. Xbox and all other consoles still suck ass in that dept. Oh, and console controllers suck as well when compared to the standard mouse/keyboard.
- FutureGuy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5if you are just "faking it" then never mind, else I have both XP and Vista at home and rarely like using XP anymore. Vista is rock stable, secure and has a slicker UI.
  http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/pretty-vista.ars
  http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/vista-under-the-hood.ars
  And as far as this "Strategist" goes, if any of the previous "Strategist" were anywhere near accurate MS shouldn't even exist as a company now.
- xspinkickx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If I am gonna get lumped into any camp it the *nix camp. I use a variety of OS, linux still being my fav. of the desktops but vista is not that bad. If you have the machine for its ok, the only problem I have is with all that drm.
  - cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1DRM hasn't affected me yet. There are only two (three?) DRM features that were not there on XP before, and also require an HD player and connected HDTV setup to have any effect.
  - Scruffydan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1and there are already workarounds to the DRM
nukem996, on 10/10/2007, -12/+4One of the biggest things complaints I hear about Windows and Office isn't about how buggy they are but how M$ just ends support. I know many people that are perfectly happy with there Windows 98/2000 machines and see no reason to upgrade. When I tell them that M$ is no longer supporting them with any security updates they get upset that they spend a bunch of money on their computers just a few years ago and now have to upgrade if they want added security updates. What upsets them more is that when they ignore that many companies now are no longer supporting older Windows platforms. I know that alone has causes some people to switch to Linux.
- fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1298 really wasn't just a few years ago. Very few software companies support 9 year old versions, f/oss or otherwise.
  - nukem996, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4I know that and I do try to explain that but there are still many, many people that view their computer like their car, there is no reason to replace it unless it dies. They don't see why they don't get the latest version of Windows for free(since they already payed for it). Thats what they like about FOSS.
    
    This crowd is very easy to switch, they just want their e-mail and browse the web. Usually when I help them switch they see no difference.
    - fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7They didn't already pay for it. They paid for Windows 98. They don't expect to trade their 9 year old cars in for the new model for nothing, can't imagine why they feel the same way towards software.
      
      FOSS's selling point isn't the pricetag, only teenagers care about that. The rest of the world rarely pays for operating systems anyway they get them with new computers at little or no direct cost for the operating system.
      - bigtomrodney, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4You forget that people don't want Windows they want a computer that performs the tasks they need. Your analogy is wrong. A person that bought a car 11 years ago may expect to run it until it dies. Let's say they have that same outlook on their computer. An upgrade to Vista (however improbable that is on an 11 year old computer) would not be a new computer, it would be more like an oil change , stereo and upholstery.
      - fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Ummm.... there is nothing to stop people continue using Windows 98. Software will be harder to find as the years progress, and Microsoft no longer supports it, but those situations happen with X year old products all the time. Meanwhile Windows 98 still works - it hasn't "expired" or "died", it's just been superceded multiple times. They can run it till they die, there's nothing at all stopping them from doing so.
        
        Of course upgrading the operating system isn't the same as buying a new computer. Similarly, upgrading the firmware in your cell phone isn't the same as buying a PS3. I'm glad we could clarify these two ambiguous issues - I can't even count how many people I've come across who were confused on this subject!
- chris9902, on 10/10/2007, -7/+15I stopped reading when you used "M$"
- 13thKid, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5an honest question: what software vendor or os developer is supporting products developed 7-10 years ago? it's not like apple is still supporting os 9... hell, my 1.5 year old iBook doesn't even meet the system requirements for the new iMovie. the most support you can get guaranteed from ubuntu right now is only until 2011, and that's for the server lts: the desktop lts is only supported until 2009.
  
  granted, with many *.nix distros, you won't have to pay to update your os, but you will have to patch and update it.
  - GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Actually it's only recently that games have stopped supporting Windows 98. I look through my collection and DoW runs on it as does KOTOR2. We are only talking about 2 years ago.
- Spuy767, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2The problem with office, is that microsoft doesn't know when to say, "Enough is enough." Instead of optimizing the already underutilized features, their designed by committee software just gets more and more crap packed into it. Seriously, was it really necessary to change office formats if they weren't going to use an open format? Microsoft does things not because of a user need, but they attempt to force current software into obsolescense.
  - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4"their designed by committee software just gets more and more crap packed"
    
    Linux is 'designed by committee'. It also has loads of crap packed into it - they feel a burning desire to fill the entire CD ISO with rubbish for some reason. If I am not very much mistaken there are also about 4 different and incompatible package formats and every single Linux app seems to reinvent the wheel when it comes to protocols and file types. You can't even run KDE software on Gnome without having it installed, not to mention they can't even work out a uniform windowing API.
    
    So don't talk crap when Microsoft changes a file format as you can bet good money that any FOSS creative software will also change it's filetype after a major upgrade.
    
    If the WWW was developed by the current Linux mindset you'd have to have 5 browsers to view various different websites (It's all about 'choice' apparently).
    - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Please tell me about the Windowing APIs in Linux and how they aren't uniform. Be sure to include links.
      - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I more mean that if software is made for KDE, you need KDE installed to run it, same with Gnome. You run KDE software on Gnome you get the KDE look/feel, same vice-versa, instead you get GTK icons/windows/behaviour. It's not uniform, the software should interface with a desktop API which should then display it depending on the WM installed. There is no gain from 'choice' if your forced to deal with both DE's to actually get anything done. It's called 'unwanted complications'.
  - bobbyi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The previous office file format had been around since Office 97. Since you think a new file format once ever ten years is unreasonable, how long should they have to stick with the same format? 25 years?
hendrickchan, on 10/10/2007, -13/+8I've been reading "Linux has been on the rise" for several years now and have yet to see a decent distro for the normal guy. Up until they can get an attractive GUI with decent productivity tools and with one shot installation and minimal configuration, then we can see a serious competitor to Windows. OSX is a step in the right direction.
- sloppychris, on 10/10/2007, -9/+18Ubuntu is your answer.
  - fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -15/+8Ubuntu is the answer to a question nobody's asking, so stfu.
    - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1see how you got buried? Looks like people want YOU to stfu!
- Skod, on 10/10/2007, -8/+9Tried Ubuntu lately?
  - Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Most all version of Linux will meet your needs.
    I'm going to Klikit when it goes beta.
- mithrasinvictus, on 10/10/2007, -7/+6kubuntu
- 13thKid, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16to pre-empt the coming digging-down: i'm not a *nix fan boy of any stripe. if anything, i'm an apple fan boy, so...
  
  i have to say, i think ubuntu is offering what you set out here:
  - the gui is attractive, and with compiz/beryl, almost as flashy and slick as aero and os x
  - the available productivity tools are adequate for the normal guy. maybe not for enterprise users, but, hey: productivity software shouldn't be the problem of coders of the os (read as: that's openoffice.org's problem, not canonical's)
  - in my experience, the installation is WAY easier than any windows installation i've been a part of (from 3.11-xp)
  - the last ubuntu installation i did worked pretty flawlessly immediately after startup, save some wifi issues cause by a jankey pcmcia wifi card
  - fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1No Apple fanboy could find a poo-brown operating system attractive, liar.
    - zwaldowski, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Have you even USED Feisty or Gutsy? It's orange now.
      - zwaldowski, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I hate replying to myself, but, for the record, I hate the Human theme and the first thing I do when installing Ubuntu is to get blue: Gilouche metacity theme, any Murrine theme of your choice, and my personally-designed GDM theme.
    - schoate09, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Still ugly.
    - gfnw, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Install the Ubuntustudio themes then. Secksy.
  - Septimus, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2But don't try and get it running on a laptop with Intel-HDA sound. It installs, but wil it play ***** all? No. Worked in 6, they broke it in 7 and won't fix it till gutsy.
    
    *nix is still not for the average user. That and the font rendering is hideous.
    
    Also, the zealous nature of most *nix users is vomit inducing which puts new users off. It's as bad if not sometimes worse than the propaganda based ***** that Mac users spout.
    
    /Use the 3 main OS types daily and wishes digg would just get on with using what they want without trying convert people with every other ***** article.
    - philhatesyou, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I'm going to call ***** on you. I've got Feisty installed on a laptop with Intel HD Audio and it works just fine. The more likely answer here is that you're an idiot.
      - netant, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2No, the answer is that you're a geeky jackass.
        
        I have a new HP 2315nr, and I've recently discovered that it doesn't mute the speakers when I stick in headphones (running Ubuntu Feisty). Trying to feed modprobe options have sucessively killed audio, or have it mysteriously work and not work from reboot to reboot.
        
        Its a known issue. They say its fixed in ALSA 1.14. But there are no deb packages for feisty. I can either 1) Run gutsy (alpha) and deal with its crippling bugs, 2) do a machine-specific compile of the ALSA drivers and kludge it into feisty.(which means digesting the gestalt of debian/ubuntu package management, ripping out ALSA and putting in my kludge without upsetting the package management), or 3) say F-it, and run Vista/XP (The 4th option is say F- ubuntu, and hack my laptop into functionality with Slackware/DroplineGnome, and this would be my choice if it wasn't for the fact that Slackware just released a new version, and DLG will be in beta mode for a while.) Also note, that what I just wrote sounds like gobbledy gook to any hot chick, grandmother, or non-computer related nobel prize winner.
        
        This is after going through the hell known as wifi configuration (broadcom). It turned out that the package management in feisty makes wifi configuration almost transparent, but I sure wish you were around so I could bash your head in every time the connection drops, or when I need more than 11Mb/s (on a 802.11g equipment).
        
        Mind you, I have nothing but respect and admiration for the job that ubuntu/linux developers, railing against the cruel and unfair environment of a Microsoft monopoly and jerkoff hardware manufacturers who will write a working software driver for Microshaft but not make available basic API details to their hardware to allow other people to write their own drivers.
        
        No, its religious ***** like you who I hate. You are all ***** liars, just like Jim Bakker was a ***** liar, and Jerry Fallwell was a ***** liar. Linux is not for everyone, just like Jesus (or their ***** up version of him) is not for everyone. You're a jackass to think that people who only want to be able to use their machine should happily spend days searching Google, poring through tedious documentation and cryptic messages, and have enough of a technical background to compile and install (and debug) the fix. I have a life outside of my laptop, and with what limited recreational time available, I don't want to spend it ALL on correcting linux distribution limitations.
        
        You do the linux adoption no favors, with your arrogant, incompetent statements, driving away every non-geek from linux. Give specific instructions to address a problem, or keep your fool mouth shut.
    - Almightymole, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I appear to have no problems with the Intel HD Audio controller on my laptop with Feisty either...
  - over9, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1the issues with the pcmcia wifi card is exactly the reason why i've never stuck with linux. none of the distros i've tried ever worked with it, and to make it work you have to use ndiswrapper which is a hassle.
- 5lack3r, on 10/10/2007, -12/+8*****, Tried any good distro lately?? You should not speak on things of which you do not know. When is the last time you actually TRIED to do this? Oh wait... you're probably spending too much time reloading your XP box every 6-8 months. Have fun... Go Fedora, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, Slackware, RHEL, SLES, OO.o, and my latest favorite: Compiz!!!
  
  You KNOW nothing!
- martyFREEDOM, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Just the other day I installed Ubuntu on a one of my friend's computer. This is a 3-4 year old emachine we are talking about, and I installed it in one shot. The restricted nvidia drivers installed with no issue for his on board GeForce4. The desktop effects that come with Ubuntu via Compiz worked with no issue. He said that it is way easier to get around than Windows, and looks better. He doesn't want to go back.
- tripzero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1My goodness, both my wife and my brother's wife like ubuntu better than windows. And they are definitely non-geeks. My wife loves the awesome eye-candy of compiz-fusion. She gets around and does what she wants very well for no computer experience whatsoever.
shortxstack, on 10/10/2007, -7/+17i just bought a new laptop that came with vista on it. i spent a good hour or 2 tweaking it and it's almost exactly like XP was on my old laptop... and every 10 minutes i'm finding something else that pisses me off so i'll go try and tweak it some more. and i'm thinking of just trashing the dual boot and just putting ubuntu on here. sure, a few hours of tweaking that crap down the drain, but vista is horrible. i can't stand this crap.
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2Why the ***** are you trying to make it look and behave like XP???
  Give vista a shot in its native configuration for a few days rather than trying to make it into something its not!
  - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Exactly the same reason windows fanboy expect Linux to behave like Windows?
- Septimus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4***** at windows.
- EvilWalksWithMe, on 10/10/2007, -7/+3Find some patience for god's sake. Give it a few days and you'll be surprised how good vista becomes. As it stands, all i read in your comment was "Blah blah blah"
  - Fartag, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Oh no you don't!
    
    I want an OS that I can just boot up and use without needing days to get used to it. When my grandma can install and use Vista with something as easy as Ubuntu's package manager then maybe it will be ready for the desktop, but it's just not there yet. Also, it would have to include a lot more software, it didn't even have office software on there when I bought it! Isn't this 2007?? When it comes with hundreds of professional grade packages that auto-update like Ubuntu and other distros then maybe it's got a chance... point and click download, install, upgrade, downgrade and remove with search and all of it _safe_ and open source..
    
    But really since Vista isn't even open source, I mean come on, that's just ridiculous to run something as important and supposedly secure as an OS without any oversight isn't it? Your government could have rigged any backdoor or exploit bugs that won't be officially found for years! Yes, this _is_ 2007, I tried Vista and I don't like it and it's definitely not ready for the desktop yet, not to mention it being expensive and support will slowly die out for it and you have to pay for the next upgrade. Maybe I'll try it again in a few years.
    
    Oh I almost forgot, I use Vista on a laptop that I overwrote with Ubuntu since Ubuntu can virtualize Vista.
    - FKnight, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1If Microsoft included an office suite, you'd just bitch that they were bundling and demand that they be sued.
    - Neodeusx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Windows Vista, to me, runs a lot like any other Windows OS. There isn't that much of a learning curve, especially if you are someone who can install and run Linux. I highly doubt there are many grandma's who can install and run Ubuntu, well maybe they can but God forbid let's say their sound didn't work (not completely unfeasible) it would be great watching a grandma get that working. I, for one, did not have to read anything to run Windows Vista, if anything it's annoying how they go out of their way to explain and simplify stuff, such as if I right click and go to properties on my desktop to change my background I now have to click an icon with an explanation of this is what you click if you want to change your background blah blah blah, instead of clicking a tab. Some people mention games not working... I install Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and Might and Magic VI (2 examples all my games run) 2 games which were made before 1998 and guess what, both worked without a hitch (Might and Magic 6 does not seem to run on most Windows XP machines). IMO it doesn't seem very rational to say something like "I don't want to learn Windows Vista, so I will install Ubuntu!" because to me it would take a lot more to learn a completely new OS compared to a new version of another. But hey, if it's your prerogative to run Linux then go ahead, but Vista isn't as bad as people would like you to think.
      - roguetrick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I doubt there are may grandmothers who can install and run Windows as well. I think the bigger issue is running, not installing.
  - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Patience? WTF? Do you give other OS patience when you tried to switch to it?
- Crazy_8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You could probably do an XP installation on your laptop to if you do really need windows. I had this issue with my dad, he went out and got a new desktop machine for himself and it came with Vista Home Premium...no surprise, he hated it! I took a look around at what parts where in the machine and easily found the drivers for everything in XP. As it would seem, you could probably find all your laptops drivers on a few different manufactures sites and replace your vista with an actual XP install, even if it did come with Vista pre-installed.
  
  Don't let that stop you from try Ubuntu like you said though, it's quite a good OS. :P
Jammerdelray, on 10/10/2007, -7/+28Complete fud, sure linux is getting much better and thats probably the single biggest reason more people are trying linux.
- ours, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Damn right, Ubuntu 7.04 is more likely the reason. But I guess that if you put the stats together, you can show one going up and the other down even if there is no relation to each other.
  - arjie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Well, I suppose the relation is sum(marketshare of all OS) = 100%, so if one goes up, something else has to go down.
    - cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You are not counting brand new users of PCs, which would cause the overall market number to increase as well?
- deadlikeoscar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I wouldn't call it FUD--I switched because of Vista. XP isn't bad and it's been enough to keep me from doing much more with Linux than occasionally booting to it when I was bored. I eagerly awaited Vista and watched its progress for a long time. Once it came out, I wasn't impressed and I made the full time switch to Ubuntu. I enjoyed my time with Slackware but Ubuntu made it feasible to switch because my wife can use it easily as well. So, I guess it was a combination of Vista not meeting my expectations and Ubuntu more than exceeding my expectations. I can run any distribution I want but it has to be easy for the entire family to make it practical.
dsterry, on 10/10/2007, -5/+10Gutsy Gibbon Tribe 4 just came out and is testing new features similar to Vista's InstantSearch. You can get it at http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/tribe4

Don't use for production though...
Stonekeeper, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10"On the downside, Crawford said, was the fact that no one actually owns the kernel and this makes SLAs (service-level agreements) more challenging."

Er.... there IS ownership! Check out the copyrights in the headers....
- FKnight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Do you even know what an SLA is?
  - boot20, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ok smart guy, tell me how SLAs are more difficult if there is ownership to the kernel.
    - cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Actually, I think the comment above implied exactly the opposite.
      
      SLAs (for some distros) would be more difficult because there is no central point of authority for changes in the core OS. Companies can still have SLAs with companies like Red Hat, who have their own staff to maintain code, and don't necessarily have to rely on the outside community for updates along their own timeline.
blindflacker, on 10/10/2007, -9/+19Yeah, why should I pay $100+ for an operating system missing several 3rd party drivers when I can get that with Linux for free.
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1Hmmm, like wireless networking drivers???
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9*bangs head*
    they exist.. look into it, wireless stuff is a priority (after wobbly windows development of course :) )
    - Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2 Big improvement with Wireless and Linux are in the pipeline..
      if i could just find the URL.
  - tripzero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1When Linux supports the wireless chipset, Linux works much better with it. I don't even have to install any drivers on my T40 Thinkpad. wireless works great! :) :). If you plan on running Linux and are buying a new PC, make sure that you do a _little_ homework before you buy. It'll save you lots of trouble later on. Or just buy a computer preinstalled with Linux, than wifi is sure to work ;)
- Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Like my X-FI drivers?
- Neodeusx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Uhhhmm my sound drivers work with vista and not Linux so......
zcreem, on 10/10/2007, -13/+16Every time I install a linux distro I come across major problems, either hardware, installation of software, incompatible libraries, etc.
I tried Ubuntu over the weekend, again, got Maya working but without PS and half my hardware not working I removed it again.
I guess one day all this Linux hype will be true, but not yet, not nearly.
For the average joe wanting to work on his machine and work on getting his machine working Linux just isn't ready.
For Office work and Web work it is fine, I like Linux and would really like to use it, but it isn't ready yet.
Now digg me down.
- mvent2, on 10/10/2007, -6/+151. Have you tried using the package manager? That takes care of all the problems of incompatibility and will install most software with one click, much easier even than Windows setups.
  2. Please tell us what doesn't work. "Half my hardware" just makes you sound like an MS fanboy who's never tried Linux. No offense.
  3. If you want to go by getting it to work on a machine then Windows isn't ready either. The crux is OEM's deal with all those Windows problems, which is why OEM Linux is so important. If you take out the hassle of installation and drivers, Linux is more ready for the desktop now than Windows is.
  - Yarnage, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4I have the same problems as zscreem and I cannot stand how even Ubuntu doesn't have WPA support out of the box yet. Wtf is with that?
    - netant, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ubuntu (feisty) has WPA support. It all runs under that softmac module, seems to work seamlessly with networkmanager, but its probable that not all chipsets can run WPA. (I'm also not sure about the "enterprise" versions, or whether it behaves properly under a VPN.)
  - Ellipsys, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Er... what? I use Kubuntu and the Knetworkmanager connects to my network that uses WPA2. This on an intel original Centrino b/g wireless card (29xx - I don't remember exactly).
- Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2 Sounds like you have only tried one distro...Just because that one did not work for you,does not mean another one won't.
  I could not get Simply MEPIS to boot up...Does that mean all Lnux is crap? No.
  Does it mean MEPIS is crap? No.
- Sidzilla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I am a Windows user and Network pro. I have installed Ubuntu several times with no difficulties. I have it dual booting on an old Toshiba laptop and on a Pentium 4 desktop. It is giving new life to these systems, and it is fun as hell to play with. I also have successfully installed Wi-Fi support, sound drivers, video drivers, and media players and codecs all without being a Linux expert. Open Office and Google apps work great for casual office tasks. I don't have anything bad to say about Linux or Ubuntu. I am looking forward to using Ubuntu more and more, and I am hoping to purchase a Mac in the next 3 to 5 months. Any professional support or network person needs to have a full toolbox and be conversant in as many operating systems and software applications as possible. Even casual hobbyists need to learn as much as possible to be able to fully enjoy their computer experience. If you just want email and surf the web, it doesn't matter what type of machine you do it on.
  - netant, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"I have it dual booting on an old Toshiba laptop and on a Pentium 4 desktop. It is giving new life to these systems, and it is fun as hell to play with. I also have successfully installed Wi-Fi support, sound drivers, video drivers, and media players and codecs all without being a Linux expert."
    
    What's wrong with this picture? "Oh, you need to have a multipost flamefest with Torvalds, and WRITE the drivers from scratch to be a Linux expert..."
    
    You religious guys are Linux's worst enemy...
SimonGray, on 10/10/2007, -7/+28My aunt of ~60 years switched to Ubuntu because the Vista she got with her new computer was so buggy. She's been using Ubuntu for quite some time now.

It's really happening.
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -13/+6Bollocks! Vista actually has very few bugs, its probably the way you tried to set it up for her that resulted in the problems.
- Septimus, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Yeah...
- HigherLogic, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6No, it's really not. If you think it is, you have absolutely no understanding of what "average user" means. Your average user is still typing in domain names in Yahoo! to visit pages when they could type it in the address bar instead. Your average user has yet to master copy-and-paste and the right-click menu.
  - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3may be his average user is smarter than your average user.
  - schoate09, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1OMFG, I thought my parents were the only people that did that!
- EvilWalksWithMe, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3Vista is NOT that buggy. Not even close... I just don't understand where there myths come from.
  - oobuntu, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Then why do you think MS are bringing out a Vista SP1 already?
    - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4If Ubuntu is so good how come they bring out a whole new version every 6 months then?
      
      So if MS issuing a service pack is an admission of failure, why have there been more versions of Ubuntu than there has been of Windows?
      - init100, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1A new Ubuntu version is one that actually has new features. Service packs in Windows are usually just loads of bugfixes in one big package (XP SP2 was an exception, not the rule).
    - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2@Meep3D
      
      Because every 6 Months, Ubuntu add features instead of fixing bugs.
      - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3@daftman
        
        That's funny. I've seen people rebrand bugs as features but I've never seen someone rebrand a bugfix as a 'feature'. I suppose making WPA work out of the box is a 'feature', detecting native screen res is a 'feature', Stopping Konqueror crashing every five minutes is a 'feature'.
        
        Stop being pathetic and trying to make it seem like Ubuntu is perfect and Windows sucks. They both have problems but claiming that "Ubuntu add features instead of fixing bugs." is naive at best. They both do both.
      - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1bugfix get updated between six-months. Feature in linux is different from Windows because getting WPA working about of the box require more discovering, researching, reverse engineering and coding. This is because wireless drivers are closed source and people who write the open source drivers are working in the dark and fine tuning it as they go. I can see that it is hard to explain to someone who's thick and bias like you so I would waste my time arguing any further.
      - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1daftman calling me 'thick'.
        
        I understand everything you say, I just don't see the relevance. No WPA support is a BUG, Frequent software crashes are a BUG, Non-detection of monitor modes is a BUG. Most improvements are done through bug tracking software often called BUGZILLA.
        
        Yet if a new version/patch for Linux is released it's a 'feature upgrade', and for Windows the same version/patch release is a 'bugfix'.
        
        Who's bias now?
  - deadlikeoscar, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4I'm sure Vista works great for some people. If I told somebody on ubuntuforums.org that their problems with crashes and hardware incompatibility don't exist because mine runs great out of the box, people would think I was an idiot. Just because you have a good experience with Vista doesn't mean a majority of people do. Perhaps you built your own computer with respectable parts and it works great. The people that buy computers with Vista pre-installed often complain that it is slow and unresponsive. That's probably Dell and HP, etc. sending people bargain dollar PCs that aren't fast enough to be usable with Vista even though they carry the designed for Vista sticker.(but maybe not) I've heard many gamers complain about Vista as well. (while others say the same game runs fine.) Who do you believe? I say everybody because with a user base that large, good and bad experiences are bound to exist.
  - Sidzilla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5The initial problems with Vista and its lack of backwards compatibility gave it a bad reputation. I work in a corporate environment that uses a lot of applications that just wont run in Vista. At one point the software I use to communicate with our largest customers for invoicing and orders freaked out and had over 53 instances of Outlook open waiting to automatically email tech support. This wasn't Vista, but a backwards compatibility issue, but Vista got the blame. Most people have copies of software that quit working when they upgraded to Vista, and Vista got the blame. I think that might be the start of the "Vista is buggy as hell" reputation. I got it running as a workstation after a few attempts by tweaking software, but I never got our version of Symantec corporate anti-virus working.
- grungegbunny, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Really, if grandma can do it anyone can do it.
- cquinnd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"because the Vista she got with her new computer was so buggy."
  
  I'd be willing to bet that had more to do with the other stuff loaded on the "new computer" than with bugs inherent to Vista.
  
  Which doesn't stop the experience from being a PITA for some people, so my sympathies for your aunt. I've done most of my Vista setups from scratch, and have been happy enough with the results to continue using it as my main OS while I am learning others.
KevinDupuy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8@13thKid: and you don't have to patch and update OS X? Then what exactly is Software Updater for? Besides, you don't HAVE to apply patches to Linux, and it's as easy as on OS X anyway.
- 13thKid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1you are totally right: os x is no different from windows or *nix. i was trying to say that every os has to be patched, and no os will stay stable and secure without updates (unless it is kept offline and isolated from any outside data).
  
  so, in short, everyone is going to have to update their os often, and some of those software updates will require hardware updates: this is not a windows only problem.
  
  that was all i was trying to say.
Osjpr, on 10/10/2007, -10/+5Linux really needs to work on user-friendliness (as well as the cool stuff).
- zybch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Driver support would also be nice!
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1for what? I use shedloads of stuff and I've never had a problem.. whereas in windows I have a fekkin nightmare finding drivers for my cable modem...
  - tech10171968, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Funny, I was going to say that the driver support issue (which has improved tremendously in the past few years) is not really the fault of Linux. But then I thought about it some more: the reason you don't see the same driver support in Linux that you do in Windows is because Linux comprises such a tiny share of the market on Home PC's and notebooks, and hardware companies are therefore not even thinking about making Linux drivers for their gear. But then you have to ask yourself why are so few people using Linux; getting more people to use Linux is not the job of the hardware companies, it's the job of the Linux community.
    Bottom line: if the Linux community can get more people to use Linux then the hardware companies will take notice; once the companies see more people using Linux, then and only then will more of them start making Linux drivers. So maybe the Linux community does share at least part of the blame for the lack of drivers (in a roundabout way).
    - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3the point is.. the drivers SHOULD be open source.. that won't make a difference to the sales aslong as the hardware is up to scratch.. if video drivers (for example) were open source.. existing video cards in ALL operating systems would be performing more efficiently... people would still upgrade and EVERYONE would benefit, regardless of which OS they use..
  - BlueTide, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1As an end-user, I find it totally irrelevant whose fault it is. As long as things do not work, they don't work and I can't use the system. We can throw the ball to others over and over again and say it is not our fault, but what's the point in that? I don't care if the drivers emerge from thin air as long as they come from somewhere. Same applies not just to drivers, but pretty much to the whole ecosystem.
    
    If there are lacks, say with drivers, then there needs to be more oomph with something else that justifies the problems that can't be fixed by the authors.
    
    That said, I've had enough luck with my hw that Linux has worked with reasonable amount of effort thus far.
- tech10171968, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Maybe, maybe not. The way I see it, what a lot of people see as "a lack of user-friendliness" is actually unfamiliarity. Many folks see Windows as being "user-friendly" because they KNOW Windows; Linux, on the other hand, does things completely differently so there is a bit of a learning curve (which also involves unlearning things that you knew about Windows). In fact most Linux users actually started out on Windows and had to go through this very same learning curve before they got the hang of it (this also includes myself; I'd used WIndows for sooo long that I actually became a bit of a "guru" after a number of years).
  The good news is that this learning curve has started to flatten out quite a bit in the past few years, but Linux STILL requires the user to actually take the time to learn at least a little about his OS and/or computer. Linux user-friendliness has increased so much in distros such as Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS that the user rarely (if ever) has to visit the command line any more than he had to open a DOS prompt in XP/2000.
  
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not about pushing Linux on people who couldn't care less. Linux has really made some strides in the past few years, but people will NEVER be willing to give it a shot if the Linux zealots keep preaching fire and brimstone. You might like candy bars, but you probably wouldn't be so willing to eat one if I held a gun to your head and forced you to do so.
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4zealots are their own worst enemy, trying to push people into something only drives them away.. they do more harm than good.. I hated the concept of Linux for years, I looked at is as eliteist pretentious crap that was only used so its users could feel superior to the inferior "windows" users... it was only when I was sat with a mate using linux who didn't even bother telling me it was linux, even when I asked what he was using, he didn't suggest I try it out.. i ASKED because i wan't pushed..
    
    now i try ot be an un-pretentious un-zealot un-eliteist linux user :) (i can even type windows and microsoft without using $ symbols or swears )
  - over9, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2erm i had to use the terminal just to install flash. wtf is that all about.
    - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3why? I didn't need to touch the command line so why should you????
    - tech10171968, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You could have just opened your file manager (I use Krusader), right-clicked the file (to extract it into its present directory), and right-clicked on the bin file to run it. See? No command line.
      - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Or in Windows, or OSX, you just click 'OK Install Flash' when you dont have it. Hmmm whats easier?
      - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Nah, you have to go to Adobe page, download the thing, run it and go through the installation wizard. If you boot up windows I can guaranteed you there isn't a "OK Install Flash" button anywhere. Not even next to the "Start Menu" button
      - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2If you don't have it installed and you browse a page that needs it it will pop up a box asking if you want to install it. You click yes. I believe it works for Firefox and IE.
    - deadlikeoscar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3System>Administration>Synaptic Package Manager>Search for Flash>Click on flashplugin-nonfree>Apply
- mvent2, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Linux is very user-friendly and works very well once its set up. Most of the people who say otherwise are the ones expecting Linux to look and act exactly like Windows. I suggest getting a Dell with Linux preinstalled, it takes away the biggest (only?) problem with Linux, the installation.
  - GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Actually installing Linux is much easier than installing Windows. Most users don't do either of course.
  - FKnight, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2"I suggest getting a Dell with Linux preinstalled, it takes away the biggest (only?) problem with Linux, the installation."
    
    Until they buy a hardware device or need software.
- grungegbunny, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I found Linux to be very user friendly. Having come from attempting to struggle with Red Hat in the past only to run back to Windows each time, I find Ubuntu to be super user friendly even installation of programs with add/remove is wonderful not to mention instant updates and patches like win.
skye1924, on 10/10/2007, -7/+13its a funny thing... I've just formatted my desktop. I have dumped xp and gone for unbuntu!

And its well well well worth doing!
- HigherLogic, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2Let's see how long you stick with it *thumbsup*
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7i'd never even touched linux before january... and the only reason i've booted into windows in that time for is to 1) Use Microsoft activesync and 2) Play Tiger Woods 2007
    
    even my wife is a convert (without any prompting from me, i even set her windows account up all pink like she likes it) and is clueless about computers.
    - Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2 Ive also used Linux (not Ub') for over a year..I boot into Windows to play a couple games. maybe once a month..Everything else is done in Linux.
      Would I ever go back to Windows?
      Nope.
    - Yazilliclick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1And why would you never go back to windows?
- chris9902, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2yeah right, that is funny. And by funny I mean tedious.
Cherubim, on 10/10/2007, -7/+6A Linux box can be messed up quite easily. Just stuff around with xorg.conf or install an incorrect display driver. Then the fun will start.
- CATSCEO, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Better yet: rm -rf /
  - 9a3eedi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4you can't do ***** without sudo
    - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2You can't do whit without UAC
- ours, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If users didn't need to go there it would all be fine. But for my first install I had to go in there to make Ubuntu recognize that my monitor can go beyond 800*600.
  Hopefully next version won't make me do that AND will be more tolerant to errors.
  - GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yes it will, they aren't calling it bullet proof Xorg for nothing.
- Fartag, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Neither of those are difficult to fix (CATSCEO's is though...). Pull an older xorg.conf from a backup (many updaters back it up), or regenerate one from various utilities nvidia-xconfig, X -configure, or I think Ubuntu just regenerates one on its own so maybe you can move what xorg.conf you got out and reboot (??) . And for the driver part just reinstall the right one. If things are working until X display hoses up, then you can try to go to a console tty (ctrl-alt-F1, etc.) log in and fix it from there. If you have to (lock up from bad driver...), reboot and type into Lilo or Grub an alternate run-level (boot typing in number 3 after the image to load) to avoid loading X.. Also Knoppix or other live distros can bail you out of a huge number of PEBCAK errors. There's probably other more modern methods but I haven't had to use any yet!
  - arjie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yep, you can dpkg-reconfigure the package. If you're messing up in there you'd better know what you're doing.
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Of course you can messed up a Linux box. Linux assume you're smart and know what you are doing. If you have no idea what you are doing, why are you messing around with xconf?
  In order to mess Windows up, just use it normally.
  - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2To get the native display resolution maybe, as if it's not 1024x768 it probably wont work.
    
    The amusing things is Windows 98 (It's almost a decade old) managed this.
    - init100, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Windows had all the display drivers written for them by the hardware vendors.
- 9a3eedi, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5If you mess around with xorg.conf, only the X server won't work. Linux itself still works properly. Besides, it is very easy to regenerate xorg.conf.
  Installing the wrong display driver won't do much unless you explicitly state that X is to use that driver. Then X wont work, not Linux.
- nxtwrld, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4well, i don't know - try opening windows registry, stuff around with it and see what happens... ;)
  - melkore, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2How often does a user have to modify the registry to change the screen resolution in Windows?
- Ellipsys, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I'm a linux noob, and I somehow nuked my xorg yesterday. All I had to do was boot into recovery mode (cmd line) and run sudo dpkg reconfigure xserver-xorg. This got me back into X, and amazingly enough I could still use the fglrx driver I had installed and only had to do minimal config editing to get my xorg.conf back to the way I had it before. Everything else was just as I had left it. If this was windows, I probably would have wept for my lost data.
din100, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2even now lot of people don’t know what Linux is unless more computer companies try to push it to the mass market as an “upgrade2 to windows

saying that I use vista and happy with it, I guess if you know what ur doing any OS is good
booknow, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Linux has been ready for the desktop for quite some time now. With the recent Dell and Lenovo offers to buy Linux (Ubuntu and SuSE) preinstalled on a pc or notebook will make it more easier to try out Linux.
- EvilWalksWithMe, on 10/10/2007, -5/+0Buying a computer with linux pre installed doesn't make it easier mate, it makes it just as expensive as buying a vista pc to 'try it out'
  - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4It does make it easier because the whole OS works with all the hardware. Now it doesn't take a genius to know how to use firefox, Open Office and Amarok, etc.
  - subgeniusd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If you ever spent any time on Linux help forums you'd know that installation and hardware compatibility are two of the major issues impacting Linux users. And not just noobs. Eric Raymond dumped Fedora due to driver issues....story on Digg a few months ago.
shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1well duh, my ***** 2 year old daughter could have pointed that out.. how much is this IT Strategist getting paid to point out the frigging obvious???

It is arguable wether Linux is ready for the desktop, that's not what this is about, the opportunity is there and it's blatantly obvious that people are pissed with Vista.

/me applies for job as IT strategist at Dell
/me advises them in interview that he believes that faster CPU's are going to be created in the near future
/me gets job
/me counts money
- phisquare, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3/stfu
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1ooh, apologies.. are YOU an overpaid IT Strategist with the ability to state the obvious?
- phisquare, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2Does it look like we're on IRC here? You aren't clever.
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1aww bless... does the sigh of "/me" upset you? Would you rather me get my point accross surround them in pretty *'s ?
    
    and I AM clever.. my mum said so when I drawed her a piktcha
  - peacebyanymeans, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Goddamn, you're an annoying piece of crap.
    - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2ah, not always like this.. headache + caffeine = annoying twunt..
      
      please don't hate me.. i don't know how I would survive without your approval
- oobuntu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1..and that is the reason why people find cartoons like dilbert so funny. If you didn't laugh, you'd cry.
- chris9902, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1/me really
  /me likes
  /me line
  /me breaks
- over9, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1pics of your daughter pls
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1shes not for sale.. you might have better luck checking the phone book.. start with "McCann"
ukblacknight, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2I think this case of "vista is fueling growth or linux" is somewhat overlooked. If you'd moved to Vista from XP (I imagine this is the case for pretty much most people), and you found you didn't like it for whatever reason, then you'd move back to what worked best. You wouldn't add further to your headaches by moving to a completely different operating system that you know nothing about.

In my view, people are too quick to brand Vista as being "crap". Everyone knows that when a new Windows OS comes out it has problems (remember XP?). Give it a year, and then see what happens.
- shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7XP didn't receive anything like this response.. I quite liked XP when it came out (I even tested the release candidates..) yeah it had a few bugs but I could see it had potential.. I waited for SP1 and then shifted from 2000.
  
  Windows Me was the only release that has even came close to getting the response that Vista has.. and that wasn't anywhere near (remember, Me got quickly brushed under the carpet and pretended it never happened!)
  - ukblacknight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1ah, well my experience of XP when it first came out was poor, however it turned out to be a legend. ME on the otherhand.. *shudders*.... was far far worse than Vista. I remember a guy telling me that he prefered ME over XP because it was more stable. I laughed in his face.
    - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2still to this day.. i get people (one of them my father-in-law) who is using XP SP2 wishing he still has Me cos he would "understand" how it worked..... i try to explain that "worked" and "Me" shouldn't be used in the same sentances..
      
      i digress.. Me may or may not have been worse than Vista, that's not my point.. my point is that Vista seems to be getting a colder and more angry response than Me did, regardless of which is/was more functional, stable and efficient
    - ukblacknight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Maybe he thinks he knows how it works in ME because he see's the hex memory location of the program error in the BSOD! That is one OS that Microsoft didn't even attempt to make better!
    - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1hahah, nothing as wild as that.. just "they changed the start button" was enough for him to write off XP.. Aah, ignorance is bliss i guess :)
- grungegbunny, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2I switched from XP to Linux because eventually XP will slowly discontinue in use after the release of Vista. My ethics are kicking me now and I decided it was time to quit supporting a monopoly and grab open source by the horns.
  Open Source is our future.
  - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Ethics will not win this battle. You just need to check out a supermarket and see how many people still do not buy free range eggs/dairy/meat. If you cant even get people to treat animals ethically I don't think you'll manage to get them to treat software ethically.
    
    Especially considering it's a real job even explaining to normal people what software ethics are.
tech10171968, on 10/10/2007, -0/+23As an **extremely** happy Debian linux user myself, I am bothered by the tendency of some in the linux community to throw insults at Windows users, especially those who may have tried linux but had trouble with it. If we are going to get more people to try and use linux (and make these "year of the Linux desktop" predictions not so much of a running joke) then I guarantee that INSULTING people and preaching fire and brimstone to them is NOT going to do the trick. That's just stupid.
- KataLieb, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Well..Ive never, ever been insulted in any way back when I was a complete linux NOOB, with capitals...
  I dont know about other distros, but Ubuntu forums have been most helpful, never a bad word even thou you were asking "stupid" questions..
  Maybe some bad apples on some IRC channel or so.. But when I first switched from XP (legal, paid copy) to Ubuntu 3 yrs ago, nobody ever insulted me or made fun of me. And I try to continue in that vein and be as helpful to newcomers as I can possibly be. Ive alos personally installed Ubuntu for 5 different friends and helped them with any problems. And have helped people to install dualboot XP/Linux systems, or Linux-only systems. I dont bitch to people if they want a dualboot for gaming or making music on their Fruity loops in Windows. And not one of these 10+ people have ever complained or stopped using Linux.
  - 9a3eedi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Ubuntu Forums is one of the best places to get Linux help. They have a strict policy to never ever insult the person no matter how noobish the question is. Doens't mean all linux forums are like that though.
  - arjie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Agreed. I've asked some pretty stupid questions in my time there and they've all been answered kindly.
  - Almightymole, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Remember, there is no stupid questions, only stupid people.
- Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2 I agree...Calling people stupid for using Windows or the distro you don't approve if is *not* going to cause them to go along with your agenda.
shoovi, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Truth is that OS should "work" for user, with MS OSes is opposite. Vista is typical commercial product as every few years we feel strong pressure to change (buy) new one. Moreover can you imagine that you want to buy new car with broken brakes or engine? Buying MS OSes is like doing that way (Thats why its better to wait for SP1)

What funny is? it is XXI century and we can not have real multitasking OS for personal use. Have anyone tried Amiga-OS?
- shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2my mate raves on about Amiga OS... just hardware is hard to come by so he's ditched his box
  - arjie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2He may want to try out Athene OS with the Omega Workstation desktop. I liked it, really fast if you use it instead of Xorg
    
    Errr, oops, that's only for the interface though. But Athene OS is really fast even on 128MB.
  - arjie, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1He may want to try out Athene OS with the Omega Workstation desktop. I liked it, really fast if you use it instead of Xorg
- over9, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2I hope you aren't a Apple fanboy.
  iMac is typical commercial product as every few years we feel strong pressure to change (buy) new one. Moreover can you imagine that you want to buy new car with broken brakes or engine? Buying Apple iMacs is like doing that way.
  - shavenlunatic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4he seems to be more of an Amiga fanboy.. as he didn't mention apple, mac or OSX in that whole post....
- Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yea, Haiku is a real multithreaded OS based upon BeOS.
gotamd, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Sorry, I've messed up a number of Linux boxes without too much effort. The difference is that I can usually fix problems I create in Windows whereas I have much less experience with how to fix broken Linux OS's. That's partially because each distribution is just a *little* bit different from the next.
- 9a3eedi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4That's funny. In my experience, if there's something wrong with Windows, you simply have to live with it because it's sometimes impossible to know what is causing the problem.. Where as in Linux, especially in Gentoo, you know exactly what the problem is.
HautePie, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5As an OSX-from-windows convert for some years, I thought I'd give ubuntu a shot on my old pc laptop to give it a new lease of life. I found it a bit of a headache to be honest as regards to drivers, then I relised, more importantly for me as a designer, I can't use CS3 on Linux. So I'll stick with OSX. Linux seems to me to be the OS for people who like ***** about with their OS. I don't hate it like I do windows, but nothing it offers would tempt me from OSX.
- FKnight, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Your'e being dugg down because a bunch of Linux Fanatics think they're more intelligent than you about what software you need for your profession.
sango, on 10/10/2007, -8/+5OSX`` the homosexual os
- Waterrat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Oh get a grip homophobe.
manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Can anyone show me how to accurately calculate the Linux market share?
- Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2You need to be good at working with fractions :)
  - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So Microsoft desktop at 90% isn't a fraction?
- darkfoxx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4the linux market share is 0.75% http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2
  - Meep3D, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3From all my webserver stats it's usually pegged at about 0.3% (holiday homes, festival sites, gig listings). It's still funny that Windows 98 is beating Linux :)
Darcy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1So, this is the general feeling coming from linuxworld this year, now there's a surprise. Did they provide any evidence that this is happening, or was it just the normal mixture of FUD, propaganda, and wishful thinking ,that the open source community has been spouting for years?
knightwolf, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4Vista is clearly designed with 64 bit computing in mind and should be taken with a grain of salt on anything less. I work in the IT dept for a small company (~300), several of the employees have bought new laptops with Vista on it in 32 bit mode. I absolutely dread working on their computers because of how slow the operating system is, even with minimal graphics options. However, I recently upgrade my personal PC to a 64 bit processor and figured I'd try out Vista 64 since I have free access to it through MSDNAA. There is an obvious difference between the two, and I even enjoy the features of Vista 64. I would not recommend you use Vista on a 32 bit computer for anything, but if your working from a 64 bit processor then I'd suggest trying it out with the expectancy of learning new features.

As for Linux, I've tried Ubuntu with several GUIs on it. I have yet to have a satisfying experience with it. There are some neat features it offers, but nothing that I couldn't do in Windows. Most of which, the average user wouldn't be doing anyway. The largest problem with it seems to be installing new programs. The system they use works great for drivers, but quickly becomes old and tiring to add new applications.

Over all, if your deeply involved in computers your going to hate 32bit Vista. If your an average user you'll just like showing off how pretty it is to your coworkers. Linux has its place but is by no means ready for the office computer. Vista is nice in 64 bit, but the vast majority of corporate America isn't ready to pay for that shift yet. An educated Windows user with a 64 bit computer will find Vista a pleasant surprise.
- tkstock, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Personally, I would've stuck with XP Pro (and I did).
  
  I dual-boot with Ubuntu, and I'm running an Ubuntu server on another machine. To be honest, because of my years of experience with Windows, I prefer XP to Ubuntu, but I do enjoy geeking out in Ubuntu from time to time.
- knightwolf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1When I set it up I was almost certain that I'd be installing the 64bit version of XP soon after. After a few days use with Vista though, I'm not going back. I even installed the 32 bit version on my work PC and tablet. Its noticeably slower, but some of features make it worth the wait. I love being able to launch all my applications through start search, and the new folder setup. Not to mention its pretty. In the end, your average "I better call IT because I got a pop up" user is going to use whatever the hot new product is that they can show off to their friends, even if they don't know how to use it.
  
  PS In my original post, by "obvious difference" I meant in speed. You'll be able to tell a difference in the UI as well probably, because it bumps up the GUI if you have enough power.
- Ellipsys, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Serious question - How is the driver support for Vista 64? That is the feature that I am hearing is holding it back, just like Linux for x64. Are Nvidia drivers up to par? What about other drivers that greatly impact the user experience? I know this will all be remedied in time for both operating systems, but right now I've always been told that shoddy drivers and hardware support make it a headache. Is this true?
  - uterpendragon1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Yes, this is TRUE! For example i cant get vista64 drivers for Konica Minolta Magicolor!.... Or try to use Vista64 shared printer on XP box in local network!! I want my money back Bill !!
- Ellipsys, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Serious question - How is the driver support for Vista 64? That is the feature that I am hearing is holding it back, just like Linux for x64. Are Nvidia drivers up to par? What about other drivers that greatly impact the user experience? I know this will all be remedied in time for both operating systems, but right now I've always been told that shoddy drivers and hardware support make it a headache. Is this true?
- Ellipsys, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Serious question - How is the driver support for Vista 64? That is the feature that I am hearing is holding it back, just like Linux for x64. Are Nvidia drivers up to par? What about other drivers that greatly impact the user experience? I know this will all be remedied in time for both operating systems, but right now I've always been told that shoddy drivers and hardware support make it a headache. Is this true?
- knightwolf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The only driver I've had a problem with (and still can't get) was a really old webcam that logitech didn't update. One of the best features of Vista is its ability to detect drivers for you and automatically install them (much better than xp did). If it can't find a driver it lets you know that there is an issue and provides you the manufacturer's web site so you can check for yourself.
mathamoz, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I suppose that I may have to try installing the 64 bit version of Vista, based on knightwolf's comment. I've been running the 32 bit version, and all minus not having enough money, I've been mere inches away from purchasing an apple here for the past month or so. It's just too bad when a company can make a product that sucks so bad, and has so many missing or broken features that it makes you want to trash the whole thing and switch to something totally different.
ronjohnson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2It is true Vista is driving some of us to Linux. I am currently testing Sabayon 3.4 on a spare hard drive. At some point W2K will cease to be supported by M$ and with all the security risks on that platform it is just too scary to stay with it. Plus having 5 PC's with that OS in the house, it just would cost too much money to upgrade everyone. It would also appear that Linux is getting more focused on drivers and common libraries. I may not make the switch until Q1-08 but at this time it is eminent.
maxinux, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6In the last month I helped three people to switch Ubuntu 7.04 Linux, this was not possible a year ago. Linux is becoming better and better.
- FKnight, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1They switch back yet?
salmonmoose, on 10/10/2007, -6/+9Yeah, I'm not buying it - I'm a Vista user, on both my desktop and home computer. Installation on both was painless.

This week, my laptop's motherboard fried - leaving me without a work computer, so I picked up on of the laptops that are lying around the office, and fire it up. It's got a fresh install of XP, a bit of an adjustment, but I've been there already so it comes pretty fast. However there is some issue with the laptop and whenever I run a webpage with javascript, the browser (IE, FFX and Opera) disapears. I figure it is one of the crappy programs that the laptop's install CD puts on the system, they are the root of all evil, but they won't come off - and I'm wasting t

Vista Aiding Linux Desktop, Strategist Says