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42 Comments
- jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25We would rather watch a new Colbert quote but you didn't submit one yet.
- liquidat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23No, this article *is* about Upstart in Ubuntu: the information is not only that Upstart exists (which is old), but also that one of the main Linux distributions is going to include it.
*That* is also the reason for the front page because now other distributions will follow if the Upstart inclusion goes well and comes up with good results.
You could have rewritten it with "Upstart init.d replacement in a major Linux distribution" - but where would be the improvement? - liquidat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Another problem of the current init system is missing in the article: speed. init is quite slow compared to other solutions afaik and it would be nice to see a system which is fast in execution.
Also I'm not sure if the new system would be able to start different jobs parallel: several init scripts could be started and launched parallel to increase startup time, but again, afaik this is not possible with the current system.
Anyone with more information there? Or am I wrong with the speed and parallel issues of init? - pufuwozu, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Not sure about everyone but I know I do.
- OmegaNine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Don't mean to call you a moron, but this is a pretty big thing in the Linux world. init.d has been around for a long long long time, i asure this will piss some people off. If you don't like to hear about Linux, there a check box right next to it for you to uncheck in your profile.
- fires, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23This article is about upstart, not ubuntu. The word 'ubuntu' arguably got it to the front page but I'm glad it did, since I found the article informative.
- babbling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Ubuntu news is one of the main reasons I visit Digg.
- zerblat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Upstart is being developed by Ubuntu developers for Ubuntu to suit the requirements of Ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReplacementInit .
Obviously, there's no reason why other *nix like system couldn't use Upstart -- just like other systems besides Mac OS X can use launchd and you can use Sun's SMF on other systems besides Solaris. - oshu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13More that anything, this article highlights the beauty of the unix design from which linux based systems are derived. Key components like the init system can being swapped out fairly easily.
In addition this also speaks to the wonder of Open Source. The creme rises to the top and corporate politics do not stop innovation. If there were but one linux distribution, and one controlling company, this would not be possible. - opnickc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I had a problem where my pc wont boot if it has multiple USB storage devices plugged in at the same time. Actually, it wont go past my mobo BIOS screen.
So I think, at least in my case, the bug is in the BIOS, not linux.
On topic: I've found Ubuntu device support to be better than windows since I first tried it with version 5.04. However, when something DIDN'T work, finding and installing a driver was much more difficult. - stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13yttrx: You might want to actually read up on it before you comment. Upstart is backwards compatible with the old init system, so it will just continue to work - however, you might want to consider porting those modifications anyway, as the new system is a lot more flexible (again, read up on it).
"Important" is a funny word. I've done a ***** of important stuff on Ubuntu since Warty, but none of it has been server stuff (unless you count SSH sessions to servers). In case you haven't noticed btw, Ubuntus main focus is not being a server, even though it can be. Personally, I'd probably choose debian for a serious server. All the same apt goodness and package richness, but a bit more tested for that kind of stuff. Perfect for "important" things (insert roll eyes smiley here).
Then again, I'm probably just feeding a troll here. - Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I'm not sure why that was getting dug down - speed is certainly one of the issues, although I don't know if upstart specifically is targeting it. Init.ng made great process in the area - it reduced my boot time from about 70 secs to under 15 - but incompatability with nvidia drivers and many network devices etc. means that the project seems to have lost steam somewhat.
- OmegaNine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@yttrx
Ubuntu is the big buzzword for the day in linux, I think more than anything they are trying to use thier popularity to push things forward. You have to admit, alot of linux is working with 5-8 year old tech. Some stuff will need to be revamped as time goes on. - blueZhift, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7After having many init related challenges over the years (mostly config issues), the development of Upstart is very encouraging. It's stuff like this that makes me keep a linux partition around since I like to tinker! And it also pays to have a spare OS around when Windows upchucks!
- givre, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Did you read the "How does it differ from launchd?" section ?
- stuhood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6One of the benefits of Upstart will be parallelism, so yes: boot times will get much better. Its hard to say whether it will be comparable to InitNG in terms of speed though.
- SniperSlap, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I have never seen something so under-mentioned and under-explained as init.
I'm excited to see this play out as I've always called down the sys-v and BSD style inits - they're too scattered.
Init has usually been the invisible barrier to peoples' ability to understand how a linux system breathes.
The upshot of Ubuntu transitioning to a more directed & cohesive init effort is that they will strive to make the configuration and management tools behind Upstart very user friendly in the GUI. This just spells good all around.
Bravo! - macewan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@hagnar, sounds like someone needs a big 'ole Ubuntu group hug
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@opnickc : Actually it is ubuntu, its bug 48732.
The kicker is that it is a bug in the pressed (from Canonical) version of the 64 bit LTS Live CD (and thus the live installation). So in order to fix that bug, you need to download a new live cd. Except that you can't install the OS to start with, so you must download it from some other working machine and trow away your shiny pressed CD. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4While I do like Upstart over the traditional init.d init script system traditionally used in the majority of Linux systems, I still prefer the old school BSD-style init scripts used in Slack, Arch and some others.
- bruenig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yttrx, your argument makes a lot of sense. How dare they make advancements if it might force you to change your setup a bit. I mean that is absurd. I loved punchcards and I had that down. Now they have all of this integrated circuits crap like I care about that garbage. Bring back punchcards, I had my punchcard system humming, this new stuff just messes that up.
- sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9I'd rather hear Ubuntu news rather than about Ruby on Rails (which is only hyped to sell books).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@skymt: Why? Just basically the simplicity and speed that comes from a BSD-Style init system is "Why" I like it, and it's easy as heck to understand and configure. Plus it's what I started off on, so it's what I'm mainly used to.
Note: I'm not trying to bash init.d, it works great, just has some downfalls (as does BSD init systems) I run Debian Sarge on my server with init.d and Ubuntu Dapper on my laptop which also uses init.d - skymt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@n0yd: Why? "I like it better" isn't much of a reason. Isn't it better to pull all these related features (init, cron, apmd, inetd) into one package?
- aleander, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Uhh... the simplicity and speed is in no way guaranteed by BSD-style init system. Last time I checked (quite a few years ago, I admit), the system was not parallel neither in Slackware nor in *BSD, and on large systems it tends to get messy. The baseline simplicity and speed of init.d scripts is worse, but it scales much better.
- gerkin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was wondering much the same thing. I think functionality vs. speed might win things over for a lot of (stubborn) users that don't want to try something new :D The design seems sound, hopefully the weight of the "U" word gets it more success ;)
- omababy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1WoW Upstart for Ubuntu, I only hope the rest of the linux community can benefit from Ubuntu's new Upstart method...
- aleander, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you maintain a relatively small number of systems with relatively small number of services on them then the BSD-style scripts are much more maintainable. Of course the system doesn't scale too well (IMHO), but sometimes that's not important.
- givre, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think parallel jobs will be posible when all the init script will be change to add upstart feature, like start on...
For the moment they are only on phase 1, and so it's not really much faster than sysvinit. They just test for the moment that it do the job.
wait & see - ShinGouki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is amazing!
Last time i asked arround in ubuntu IRC-Channel:
"Can i install ubuntu on my 8GB - USB Stick?"
"And will it work on other PCs-too?"
Well i got answerd , kinda,
It would be possible to install ubuntu on that USB-stick but if i boot up later, i have to ensure that is always have the same fstab entriy id.
Here is what i want to achieve (and i think Linux is able to do it)
1. I want to install ubuntu on an "removeable" device (SATA disk or USB DISK)
2. the boot-up process should allow "myLinux"-device to be plugged into another "slot"(same technology)
3. When i boot up i want to choose:
a) boot up with hardware when i installed ubuntu on the 8Gb-drive
b) scan for "new"-hardware, but keep ALL my other config(desktop,etc..) which means:
my desktop looks same even if i installed on PC with ATI card and now plug into Nvidia gfx card PC,
i can access and use all my applications as on my "home"-install config
I think upstart brings a lot of functionality which is needed for the things mentioned above!
!go Linux , go ubuntu :)
does anyone knows a place were to discuss this topic?(IRC,board?)
would be nice :) - jerrro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This sounds very interesting. I have been using Linux for several years but I haven't actually thought of an init replacement. Guess I haven't had any problems with the old one because I only use non-pluggable hardware. Anyway, sounds like a great thing. But should it really be listening for incoming network events..hmm...
- superstoned, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0depends on what you percieve as 'listening'. it might get notified of something, but i'd rather not have it polling every sec...
anyway, at least the speed might be nice for you, i guess. - vanguard4444, on 02/09/2008, -0/+0Sorry guys. DId the show, bought the popcorn. Not impressed. I for one am not impressed that Upstart made into mainstream. It is experimental at best and offers nothing at the moment. Anything experimental should have been an option. But you can take it out which is great.
- superstoned, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wel, pardus linux is also working on a init replacement, and they also got the boot time down some 90% or more... so i guess it's not that hard to do, and i expect upstart to do better than init as well.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Can someone wake me up when there are diggers who have real jobs in the tech world besides me? Thanks.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1If the goal is to replace crond as well, isn't this basically a linux version of launchd? As mentioned on the bottom of this page: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/
- Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2You forgot Colbert and Digg and Google
- Technopundit, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2ZZZZzzzzzzzzz.....
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -19/+9"arguably Linux’s removable device support is better than Windows’ now"
Yes. I'll get modded down for this, EVEN IF I AM A UBUNTU USER, but try and install the 64 bit LTS version of Ubuntu with a usb key plugged in if you want to experience all the goodness of superior removable device handling.
/Nothing like an installation crashing with no logical error messages.
//I know its probably a bug in Ubuntu and not linux, but the article was about ubuntu...
///My Capsa is "aTEAM"!!!! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+1Replacement? Evidently Ubuntu doesn't want to be taken seriously in the server arena. A replacement for init.d would break quite a few modifications I've made over time to both web and mail servers.
Looks like I'm not going to use Ubuntu for anything important anymore. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -21/+2I told you.
Ubuntu, apple, ipod, bush, wii gets on frontpage. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -57/+5Does everyone want to hear about Ubuntu every day?
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