What is Digg?89 Comments
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -13/+95Ugh, why the spin-off, just run Automatix/EasyUbuntu and call it a damned night. It's not like it's legal to distribute this spin-off distro in America or any other country where the MPEG-Layer 3 patent is still valid, the DVD codecs aren't licensed so the same goes for them, and Java's open source now so it's going to be added to the standard "free" tree soon enough.
Some people just fail to comprehend sanity, or are just entirely too lazy. Furthermore, this distro hides from the users the above facts, which is actually a dangerous process; users NEED to understand that these codecs are unlicensed and why they're that way, and what they can do to go about getting them licensed and/or reforming patents to protect against submarines like these (and to defeat oppressive DRM). - ryodoan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+43I am new to Linux, just started trying to figure stuff out a few weeks ago.
I am completely lost. I have made several forum posts trying to figure information out, and have only gotten one or two people to reply that actually suggested something that worked.
There are so many different distros and versions of software that something as simple as installing drivers becomes a nightmare. Then to make matters worse, people who are experienced with linux say things like, "Oh, you simply do... " then they go on for four paragraphs full of terminal commands.
Yes, I know linux is free, which I love, but right now, I cant use my nvidia video card, I cant play movies, and I cant play music on my linux box, if there was some simple way to install all of these things, I would think it was great.
I would love to be a power user, but there needs to be a simpler way to at least learn the system first. - uberon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28I think that bundling plug-ins, codecs etc. together is a good idea which allows more inexperienced users try Ubuntu. This right of the box distribution may encourage them to keep using Linux.
However, the legal issues should be clarified beforehand. - pauljaroszewski, on 10/12/2007, -5/+28why the spin-off? do you really have to ask that question? i have to be careful who i hand out ubuntu disks to because of this reason. MOST computer users just want things to work. would we like to see more people willing to learn about these mysterious comPRUters? Of course. Is this realistic? Probably not. I think its even kind of silly to expect most computer users to be willing to try anything besides windows. Ultimately, Microsoft will be the one to determine how many people abandon windows for linux or Mac OS.
- InetRoadkill, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26Uggh, why stink up a perfectly good distro by including Real Player?
- 1021, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22How true, in fact, the illegality of this might have something to do with the suspension of linuxmint's web accounts.
- Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15RealPlayer is practically a virus on Windows but it is great on Linux. And it will soon be a way to legally play Windows Media. And I have found the Firefox plug-in more stable than MPlayer. You should try it sometime.
- randomc0de, on 10/12/2007, -13/+27Wow, that is precisely what I was going to say. Force them to install it themselves (no matter how easy it is with Automatix/EasyUbuntu), and you force them to admit that they rely on non-free software for media they own. Hopefully this will do to them what it did to me - get them to convert all their media to a free format.
- Shadowman, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21So it's okay to install illegal codecs after the fact but it's not okay if they are pre-installed! That's such *****! People like ryodoan just want things to work.
"get them to convert all their media to a free format" - yeah, that's great if you are a geek, but the average computer user is not going to do that, and most don't know or care what codecs are "free".
I think this is great - what Ubuntu should be! More and more Linux users are what will eventually kill proprietary formats, not Automatix/EasyUbuntu. - hevnsnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Anyone happen to cache the screenshots?
- Ramsees79, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Users don't need to be part of th FSF cause to use Linux, they want results not ideals or politics.
- DoodlesMcPooh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10wmp does play DVDs but only if you install the codecs yourself. Funnily enough exactly the same as Linux
- I922sParkCir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This is what I will give to new people to try linux. I hate having to explain the good about being free (free to do what you want), just to soften the blow when explaining the bad of free (not free to include the unfree). Also this is good when you need linux on an windows workstation.
- becominglumberg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I agree with you, but I think you put a lot of oneness on the end user. Just like an MS environment, we need to accept we want two tiers of Linux users - one that just uses it, and one for enthusiasts.
The regular users should just get pointed to Automatix, and go about their merry way.
The enthusiasts care about FOSS and rights but also know what’s up to begin with. It is folly on our parts to assume that a regular user cares or even wants to know about his/her software rights. - Johannesrexx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12The ISO image is mirrored here
ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/linuxmint/releases/Barbara-2.0/LinuxMint-2.0.iso
but the Linux Mint site is suspended. This is queer, mates! - tungsai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10SO WHAT!!! I don't give a crap what's legal or not.
then add 1 screen that forces the user to read a bunch of crap that says, "This might be illegal! Do you wanna continue?" Yes or No? and prodeeds to install an OS that JUST WORKS. - MikeBasinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I don't mind spin-offs, as long as the contribute the code the design (if any) back upstream. A lot of what they are doing will not be needed in Feisty Fawn.
- NICU, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Does anyone realize that in Windows DVD's do NOT play automatically. You need to install a DVD playing program which you either buy or it comes preinstalled on your new PC (which is included in the price of that PC).
Making a distro with illegal codecs is stupid and is just going to end badly for the people making it. Automatix is very easy to use and gives you all of the necessary warnings. - exsst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I believe you can buy suse, and that has all the codecs and so on.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5It's legal if you don't get caught, and that's all that matters. Honestly, I don't really care for nonsensical laws, so I choose to not follow them.
Screw the technicalities, I give this distro 43 thumbs up - carefreetoast4, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@sailor. You are the reason a lot of new Linux users feel so lost and helpless. Stop insulting us and start helping us and maybe the community will get bigger and stronger. If you give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him how to fish and he eats for life. Insults only alienate him
- Falcon929, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4WMP can't play DVD's unless you buy (or your computer came with) DVD player software with CODECs.
- geocar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Shadowman
The codecs themselves aren't illegal, but in the United States, distribution (and maybe even use) might be.
If Ubuntu gives them to me, then they are making a statement that they disagree with the law. If _I_ get them myself, then I am making that statement.
What's better: a half million civilly disobedient, or just one?
And if you were holding the MP3 patents, which would you rather go after- one "lawbreaker" or a half million? - calvmari, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'm much like Ryodoan, and most of the people I encounter are too. I want nothing more than a linux that boots and runs off the bat. I'm not interested in knowing how to hack my own kernel so I can remove a comment that activates suspend for my laptop.
I'm perfectly willing to buy a CD for 50 dollars that includes all of the popular codecs and perfectly working software. I'm currently using Ubuntu now because it's the first distro that worked mostly right off the bat. However, I can't view most video files on the internet, there's a lot of sound files that I hear either, and my wireless drivers decided to stop working for no reason I can think of since I don't touch of the configuration files. The wireless failed at the worst time since I was using my custom linux for work, luckily I could boot in to Windows.
Until Linux works for the point and click user, it's not going to be worth anything for the average person. - drewskyjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4To me the real question here is: "Would a Linux distro that came with most of what people need out of the box drive Linux adoption more than a "free-er" linux distro that comes without a lot of things you need?" And I think the answer to that is Yes.
No offense, but I rarely have driver problems in Windows since XP...it almost always finds the right driver on its own, occaisionally requiring me to supply a disk. I too am a relative noob to Linux, and Automatix sure helped me get productive much more quickly. I'd still be struggling without it. If all of that stuff was there to begin with, I might could get my son interested in Linux. - Marthinus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ryodoan
Unfortunately I can not agree with you at all. How many people can install Windows when it is their first time they come in contact with it? Not just install but install the correct and latest NVidia drivers, printer drivers, network setup etc. Not many, that is why computer shops do it all for you before you pick up the machine and that is how should be.
Comparing how easy it is for you to install stuff on Windows to Linux is not an apples to apples comparison, you know Windows, you do not know Linux. Until computer shops install Linux for the end user before he picks up the box, Windows will always be the market leader no matter how good and 'easy' linux becomes. - cday, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Langford,
I don't know if this might be what you are looking for, but I'll post it just in case it's helpful...
http://www.instalinux.com/
(From the web site):
"You follow the steps in the System Designer to choose from a bunch of different distributions and versions of Linux, and to choose what software you want included. The final product will be a fairly small ISO image (30 MB or less) that you can burn to a CD and boot from. It will automatically build your system for you, pulling what it needs from the network mirror you selected, while you sit back and relax."
: ) - radu79, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Oh, nevermind, should have RTFA more carefully, my above statement is inaccurate (since this is a new distro, not Mepis).
- exsst, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Shadowman - I agree with you..
I couldn't give a ***** if there's pre-installed codecs..
I like the fact that these guys are attempting to make an even better instillation of ubuntu.
Ubuntu's brilliant for sure, but we all know it's illegal for them to include those codecs, so hell, what better to download a distro with pre-installed software which *will* be installed by the user the second it finishes installing! - Ryzo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Is there a torrent for this?
- redneckblues, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Vista will come with a codec.
- Zaggynl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Apart from the fact I have to slipstream or install a 200 updates.
And viruses/spyware
And BSOD's
But I'll keep it because of the games.. ><
I mean, Half Life, Half Life2, Starcraft and Warcraft 3 with Wine just isn't enough in Linux :P
(Apart from the native games) - timjbart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I cant install ubuntu x64 because it says it cannot load the graphics to even install!!! It works on my old 32 bit system. I need the ATI binaries that they are sticking in the next version of ubuntu
- dezmd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ryodoan
search ubuntu forums for nvidia or video card setup, i spent about 2 hours reading and learning and finally came across a decent walkthru to get my nvidia card working with 'real' nvidia drivers.
other than the video card/3d gaming issue, what else did you have a problem with? u can msg me on yahoo using the same username as here if u need some help - sailor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2go to mplayerhq to get the codecs...use xine or mplayer to play the videos....use the media connectivity plugin for firefox to launch the video player to play web videos.
- Langford, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's mostly just a remastered Ubuntu installer, which is convenient, but what I would really like is an easy way to just make my own remastered Ubuntu installer with the stuff I like included/removed on it. I know it's already possible to do, but the process seems foreboding.
- itisme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'd like to see ubuntu taylor it's distros for the legal position of the territory its in.
I know for example the DCMA has implications for distributing deCSS dvd software in the US but is that the case in the UK (where I am) If not I want it in by default.
These days I think FLOSS needs legal support more than technical, what is legal is such a minefield it leaves many users confused as to the best path... - Zaggynl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Nawh, unless a controller comes with a mouse and keyboard.
I still shiver at my memory of playing Halo with a ...controller/gamepad, blech. - dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You probably don't want to use 64bit ubuntu anyway, unless you want to deal with a lot of compatibility issues. I run the normal 32bit on an amd 64 x2 and it runs like a dream.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Exactly. ***** legalities.
I honestly don't give a rat's ass.
They're not gonna do ***** to anyone who uses it either, so I don't get what the big deal is. - itisme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@drewskyjones
"No offense, but I rarely have driver problems in Windows since XP...it almost always finds the right driver on its own, occaisionally requiring me to supply a disk."
Have you installed XP a lot (especially on a laptop)?
I accept XP (well 2000) is the best OS MS have produced to date and that most (only most) major manufacturers provide reasonable support for drivers for XP.
However a from scratch install requires considerable effort/knowledge in any OS.
XP's real competitive advantage is 90% (yes Im making that figure up off the top of my head) the OEM install! - Ademan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@carefreetoast4
He's not insulting people TRYING to learn, he's insulting the people who refuse to learn and then bitch about why they can't do something. - exsst, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Exactly.. I mean, how many here actually *bought* XP *voluntarily* out of their own cash, without it being bundled with the computer?
How many people now are using XP from a version they got off of the internet with no activation required?
How many people will download vista illegally?
Oh, forget the last one, it's a heap of *****, but you get my point ;) - johnstar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2it is a violation of the dmca to circumvent copy protection, it is also illegal to teach some one how to circumvent copy protection. so this post is ilegal. hacked xbox, psx, copying dvds to your ipod, fairtunes, why are the consumers being beaten down with laws?
- Zaggynl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2barf, 40kb/s at the ftp, anyone has a torrent? :P
- Langford, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2http://www.filemirrors.com/search.src?type=begins&file=LinuxMint-2.0.iso&action=Find
- xmilky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There is NOTHING ILLEGAL about distributing the MP3 codec or other patented stuff. In Europe and many other contries, that is. As long as you use a patent for non-commercial purposes, you are perfectly ok. Our laws explicitely allows this - it's not about "not getting caught" as some people here suggest.
It's a matter of fact, that most Linux users around the world are suffering from the horrible US laws, even if they don't apply in most other states. Distributions like Debian and Ubuntu are a little over-occoupied with the United States, if you ask me. (And I still do remember the time they had NON-US software packages for cryptography and alike...) - calvmari, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What about a small program like package explorer that lets me check what I want? Just make it simple :)
- exsst, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Bad luck mikedoth, you assumed too early and obviously another one of those idiot digg users who fail to read the article and jumping on the bang-wagon of knee-jerk reaction.
This is exactly the same as ubuntu 6.10, with some additional files to accompany the first-time *HUMAN* user. - bangmalley, on 08/30/2008, -0/+1can it play m4a?
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