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135 Comments
- justnick, on 10/12/2007, -4/+67NX910a -- Ubuntu can do porn just as well as windows.
- KrystollMeth, on 10/12/2007, -12/+56Geeksquad guy at the bar: "Linux is no good! It costs you too much money, and it doesn't support anything!"
Me: "I use Ubuntu. It supports everything I have and it's free. WTF are you talking about??!?"
GS Guy: "Well, vista supports everything and it has plenty of eye candy to boot! It's great!"
Me: "I crashed my IT guy's vista in 5 minutes by trying to change his background. And for eye candy, one word...beryl."
A few days later, he came in and was ashamed of what he said because he never tried anything else.
Moral (best word I can find for it): Most Linux haters are people who've never used Linux.
Line to best describe this situation: "Don't knock it till you've tried it!" - antitab, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27"3) Handles lid closing (whether sleep/hibernate/turn screen off, turn on when opened again, etc)"
Fawn does this on my MacBook just fine... - Jesse, on 10/12/2007, -8/+31How do you crash an OS in 5 minutes by changing a background? Seriously, what do you mean be "in 5 minutes"? How does it take so long? Were you trying to find the right-mouse-button? I can change a background just fine on vista in 2 seconds. I think you went on a little hyperbole trip, my friend, which makes your whole story suspect.
I use Vista and Ubuntu (one on the desktop for gaming, the other on the laptop for academia), I love both. Vista does not give me problems, it's perfectly stable for me and I'm glad I bought it. Ubuntu's great to use for all the programming I do.
You see, I've discovered you don't have to hate one just cause you like the other. Novel concept, I know! - leobaby, on 10/12/2007, -12/+34If only the red thumbs down would make this entire thread sink to the bottom of the page...
- justnick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21my HP laptop is set to lock the computer when I close the lid. Works great. I have it set to hibernate when battery has 5 minutes left. I don't let it get down that far but sometimes I accidentally leave it on. Hibernates just like it should. I know just because it works on my machine doesn't mean it works on everyones but the reverse is also true. Just because your laptop doesn't handle ACPI well doesn't mean they all don't.
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27Blame the author, not the submitter.
Edit: he seems to blame ACPI, so should be aware of http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000/PX03020.pdf - betacmag4u, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20I am completely blown away by Ubuntu. I thought Suse 10 was slick but Fiesty Fawn is just unbelievable with the compwiz/beryl.........I have been in IT for almost 10 years professionally have never been so excited about a new software release. I was recently tasked with supporting Vista and Ubuntu blows it away. I had high hopes for Vista and was really let down. Just my 2 cents.
- YokoZar, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21"You see, under no circumstances I would expect Microsoft or Apple to ship an OS with these kinds of bugs in them."
This guy has some pretty weird expectations for being in the computer industry so long. - Tsen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17@Expert01
Won't use an OS until all major bugs are worked out? Like what, Windows? Don't make me laugh.
And it's nice that you "hear" Linux still has troubles with wireless, but I've got a wireless card that Windows refuses to recognize until I download the drivers on another computer, transfer via USB stick to my computer, and install, and even then I have to go through hell to try and tell Windows that it really is a wireless card and not an ethernet card. Feisty didn't need me to do anything, it already configured it and had a list of available networks after I booted it up the first time. Don't say what you've "heard", it doesn't count for anything.
On the bootscreens, Linux has 'em. Ubuntu hasn't made them default (it's planned for Gutsy Gibbon, the next release), but SuSE has, and enabling it takes about twenty seconds. Further, you WONT see text (other than the select-an-OS box if you're dual booting), because Ubuntu by default isn't vocal on it's boot.
On drivers in Linux, you're obviously a bred-and-true Windows user. Linux doesn't require that you dig up drivers. They're rolled into the kernel. All of them. One exception is ndiswrapper wireless drivers, but that's because the companies refuse to make linux drivers, so you, ironically, have to download the Windows one and use ndiswrapper to adapt it for linux. Otherwise, unless you're running something truly bizarre, like a CRAY, your drivers are in the kernel and require no installation.
And, FYI, Linux and Ubuntu already ARE accepted and viable alternatives to Windows, regardless of what you think of them. They are not "toys", though they can be fun to play with. They have every ounce of power Windows has, times three. Windows is designed under the philosophy that you're a moron and shouldn't be allowed to do anything with how the OS works. Ubuntu is designed under the philosophy that you shouldn't ever need to reach under the hood, but if you do, they'll have all the tools there and ready for whatever tweaking you want to do. - rubbsdecvik, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16I love it when people say that to me. Then I show them my 105.6 gig music collection... my videos I made on Linux... and Beryl. They pretty much shut up after that. Too bad this guy was on the phone though.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Last week I called At&T to get help with my internet, and told the guy I was running Ubuntu. He laughed and asked why I would want to use Linux, and mutterd something about it being mainly for nerdy stuff and not very Graphical or Media oriented. He was basically calling Linux "Weak Sauce". I didn't want to crush his bubble so I just said it was because I preferred superior Security over flashy Operating Systems and left it at that.
- Niten, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14@aaronm67
"Tell me a linux distro that:
1) Sleeps/Wakes up
2) Hibernates
3) Handles lid closing (whether sleep/hibernate/turn screen off, turn on when opened again, etc)"
It really has more to do with your particular hardware's ACPI implementation than with your Linux distribution (after all, they're all running more or less the same kernel). If you really want a Linux laptop with well-behaved power management features, go buy one from a (re)seller that pre-installs Linux. My personal recommendation is System76 -- who ship their machines with Ubuntu, incidentally. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18I take it '*****' is Ubuntu's equivalent to the Mac Naysayer Flag564? Who knew you guys had a reisdent troll just like us. I wonder what troll the windows thread has...Oh wait, its everyone
- azazel00, on 10/12/2007, -10/+21I guess Ubuntu fanboys won't like it's criticism of the two bugs. But it is a well balanced review nonetheless.
- nonokiaboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12heh, the longest running "april fools" joke ever :P
"omg we tricked him again! kekeke" - justnick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11ah, Windows ME. The good ol days. Windows ME and I had a love/hate relationship. I loved to hate Windows ME.
- cdmarcus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Digg has had a reply feature for a while now... USE IT!
- dpjames, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11truer words ain't never been said
- bigtrouble77, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I was surprised how useless that writeup was. The first complaint about wakeup from suspend is kinda justified. It sucks that it doesn't work well on many laptops (including mine), but it's not a show stopper. I also think that issues is mostly tied to using proprietary video drivers. The other issue about S3 drivers being poor is dumb. It's not a hugely popular chip and you can't expect canonical to write video drivers. If there was a huge demand to have those drivers working well then the community would have taken care of it already.
I'm also suprised that he doesn't seem to know that Ubuntu's release schedule is based on Gnome's 6 month release schedule. Whether or not that's a good thing is another story. But Ubuntu has a completely different method for releases because of the nature of OSS.
The whining about codecs is getting really old. You can get everything you need in 2 minutes. You know how long it takes me to get ogg working in windows??? Gotta install a plugin in virtually every media player. - leobaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The ability to install completely free software by clicking a check box in a categorized and ranked listing should be at the top of every review; It is a tremendous selling point I find slightly overlooked in feisty reviews.
I love my mac and all, but a worth software repository has proved an impossible find. any suggestions? - martinwoodj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I love Linux but I'm pulling my hair out trying to get my Belkin N1 wireless card to work. I will keep trying though.
- RoadWarriorX11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"True that. I managed too totally wreck ubuntu by executing the following command: sudo chmod u+rwx /*
Now sudo doesn't work. I'm reinstalling the dam thing now."
You must have been following the well meaning advice of the geeksquad by executing that genius command. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I hate it when you linux fanboys do this, you make a big deal out of a ubuntu release than i download it like an idiot , install it, run into problems, then remove it till the next release and the process starts all over again. Im downloading ubuntu right now again, damn it and again i bet it the live cd wont work and i will have to use the alternative method to install it.
- gnawph2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7IMO its still a ways off for comparison.
I'm dualbooting right now. Still fighting with XORG for dual monitors and my Broadcom 4318 installation wasn't exactly painless. XP still works great with both.
Is Ubuntu's success based on 3rd party driver support? I think so. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I think the article's lamer than the title.
Honestly, if every poor OS review could make it obvious they'd been scouring a bugtracker beforehand, we'd all save a lot of time.
S3 3D support? Oh for God's sake please. - Rosco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@ thereport
No, at least Flag564 has class, humor and style when he's ripping on Mac's. This guy ***** up above is just a moron. - Circuitsoft, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What do you want it to do on lid close? Mine does nothing and I'm happy that way. I don't want it to sleep when I close the lid, because I often close the lid while I leave it alone to do some processing of some sort.
Look into acpid - it's quite powerful and just receives events whenever the lid is opened or closed. - quaunaut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6My only issue with Ubuntu is that I have an X-Fi. Now, I know this isn't the open source community's fault(its Creative's), but its the only reason I'm not dual-booting with all my primary use on Ubuntu.
- Theli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"You see, under no circumstances I would expect Microsoft or Apple to ship an OS with these kinds of bugs in them."
No, they would delay the release instead (even for several years). But Ubuntu has set release dates twice a year, so they pretty much have to 'ship' their OS despite persistent bugs. It took 5 years between Windows XP and Windows Vista, in the same time frame Ubuntu would have been released 10 times. If Ubuntu followed the same release pattern we would probably not have seen the first version yet.
It's a classic apples and oranges comparison. - generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Xorg 7.3 should make dual monitors easy (you can even try it out on Feisty if you have an Intel gfx card). And no more xorg.conf either.
With Xorg 7.3 I think Gutsy will be Ubuntu's best release yet. - EBFoxbat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@*****
never did get the hang of the whole "there's no c:" did you? Poor fellow. - kelvie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5That shouldn't really hurt your system, I bet you changed your clock, and now sudo says that the timestamp is too far in the future?
You should either reboot, or press ctrl-alt-f2 and log into the virtual terminal there to fix the date/time (and run sudo -v to update the timestamp). - mattfugitive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"You see, under no circumstances I would expect Microsoft or Apple to ship an OS with these kinds of bugs in them."
If I remember well, Windows ME wasn't all that peachy.
I ain't a fan boy of any OS. I just pick the one that does what I want it to do. - ordminute, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't know. Speaking as a power OS X user that learnt how to use Ubuntu, I can say that OS X comes with a few terrible costs.
1/ Sure I can't make a dvd as easily (iDVD) or quickly edit a movie as easily (iMovie) on Ubuntu but really that means nothing to me when I think that I can take Ubuntu with me anywhere, to any computer, not suffer this silly artificially enforced marriage between hardware and software that Apple pushes on it's users. It's ***** that Apple are doing this and we all know it. The hardware is made in Taiwan. It's not special anymore.
2/ Apple restricted me in other ways: OS X is really quite fascistic when it comes to useability. You yield to the computer, not it to you. Luckily Apple to a fine job getting some sensible defaults in the useability area (with the exception of the Finder and a little window management) but you still can't make the computer your own. Apple pushes some sort of Design Totalitarianism. I realise this now having used Ubuntu. That feels too heavy handed after having used Ubuntu. Ubuntu is gentler. We have different colored skin, wear different clothes, drive different cars - why should we accept that we all looking at Blue and Carbon 8 hours a day? Not even our offices all look the same.
3/ Installing stuff. I don't have to go to websites to download and install software anymore. All the software I run is security cleared and I'm legally allowed to use it. OS X without cracked software means you have to spend time learning how to compile stuff from source. With Ubuntu I don't have to work for my free software, it's all there in a repo - just a click away on my desktop. It's very cool.
4/ OS X is slow compared to Ubuntu on the same hardware. It really is.
Linux just feels better to me. It feels like I have my computer back. I make it mine and I work better as a result. - oojamaflip2006, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I decided to try installing Feisty Fawn a couple of days ago on a spare hard drive on my pc. I have to say I was really impressed at how easily it all 'just worked' even my wireless USB key. Being a long time windows user and only having played with Red Hat before it was a very good experience indeed.
The only problem now is that I'm a n00b and have to learn how to do things that I can easily do in windows but dont yet have the technical knowledge to perform in Ubuntu. I'm not complaining about this though as its a learning experience and I do really like Ubuntu and want to learn more. - Flanker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@aaronm67: Fawn does 1 & 3 on my Gateway tablet. I agree that hibernate would be nice too -- it might work; haven't looked into it though.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The problem is the same as general hardware. There is no ACPI standard, each laptop practically has it's own standard. They write drivers for Windows or OSX but not for Linux.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yes, great power. Who knows what havoc 37 Ubuntu users can wreak. Careful with that.
- Stonekeeper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Because I don't want viruses, malware, spyware, paid-for upgrades and random system crashes. But if that's your bag...." is usually a good one.
- briangig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4dual monitors on nvidia is pretty easy. ati seems a bit harder, but I only half assed trying to do it on my laptop.
To be honest though, I switched to ubuntu a few months ago, and it took me a good 2 weeks to get to the point of not needing to google basic stuff and to get everything configured properly. The upgrade (clean install) to feisty was pretty much seamless. Only issue I seem to have is window positioning/clipping and windows switching screens by themselves..it's hard to describe. I think it may be a compiz issue, so I am going to install beryl and see if it fixes the issue. - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If you used NDIS wrapper for your broadcom card then I am sorry to tell you it was completely unnecessary. There are great open source drivers in Feisty for all broadcom cards, all you needed was firmware which can be gotten by a simple:
sudo apt-get install bcm43xx-fwcutter
And then it will work, simple as that. - briangig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3honestly my biggest complaint at this point with linux is the lack of a decent bittorrent client...Azeurus was crap on linux, Deluge is a good start, but not there yet. uTorrent via WINE is what I settled on...runs fine, but seriously, I shouldnt need to run a windows app in linux for something like BT.
- consonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My only problem with Linux is developer support (which isn't a problem with Linux). Ubuntu, for instance, has programs for everyday work, including word processing, photo viewing, office management, e-mail, etc., and that's fantastic. However, it has relatively limited sound and multimedia prowess. There is a wide variety of digital audio workstation apps available for Linux, but there aren't any real killer apps - e.g. programs that could replace Ableton Live, Pro Tools, Steinberg Cubase, or Cakewalk SONAR. Ubuntu Studio, a Ubuntu distro packed with multimedia tools, is coming out sometime in the future - possibly by the end of April (unlikely) or in mid-May. I can't wait to try it, because I hope it will prove me wrong about Linux, but I have no idea when.
http://ubuntustudio.org/ - generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Trogdoor's right, that will generally work. The reason it's not default is because Broadcom again messing with Linux wireless and not giving them redistribution rights like Intel has.
BTW I think Eugenia's review was interesting because it basically focuses on the small things that sometimes free software is criticized for missing (the 99.9% done syndrome) - generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The bug tracking is a huge issue, especially with apport's duplicate bugs now...they need more volunteer triagers. So I guess the whole Open Week is very good timing :)
- aaronm67, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13That doesn't change the fact that ACPI is very important to any laptop user.
Tell me a linux distro that:
1) Sleeps/Wakes up
2) Hibernates
3) Handles lid closing (whether sleep/hibernate/turn screen off, turn on when opened again, etc)
There isn't one. Sleep/Wake up I have gotten to work without much hassle before, I have even gotten hibernate to work. But, for me, #3 is by far the most important (I tend to close my lid whenever I'm not actively using my computer). - msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Lack of S3 3D support is a showstopper? I had to google it to even figure out what the hell it was, and I run ubuntu as my primary OS. Definately nitpicking just for the sake of nitpicking. Bitching about codec support? Show me any OS that doesn't have this problem out of the box.
Yeah, linux has a ways to go with ACPI support, but do remember, it was partially funded by Microsoft. It's amazing MS allowed the spec to work with anything besides Windows. See schestowitz's PDF link below. - Macuyiko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4'Tell me a linux distro that:
1) Sleeps/Wakes up
2) Hibernates
3) Handles lid closing (whether sleep/hibernate/turn screen off, turn on when opened again, etc)'
All these acpi aspects work great with Feisty (on a Thinkpad x60). - generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=296343 help?
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