What is Digg?156 Comments
- Kamujin, on 04/05/2008, -5/+41Sun is a place of great ideas, but their implementation seems to be lacking.
Java is a perfect example. Great idea, but their refusal to address long standing problem with the language is allowing .NET to gain a competitive beach head. - whereiseljefe, on 04/05/2008, -2/+30Open source doesn't have to be validated by corporate buyouts.
Sun's already made a big purchase, they aren't going to drop another billion or even less on Ubuntu. Frankly I'd like to see Canonical make it as an individual company rather than going for the buyout route. - JonLatane, on 04/05/2008, -1/+15C# offers a lack of checked exceptions and some slight differences in the API as opposed to Java. Java does require most exceptions to be checked (in my opinion, this is a good thing unless you're a lazy programmer, but to each his own), and of course it has the major feature of being completely multiplatform, whereas C# only works on Windows. (Mono is cool, but without Microsoft's own support, C# will never be half as platform-independent as Java.)
- santasing, on 04/05/2008, -2/+15Could you please name a few.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/05/2008, -1/+14Windows is that early 90's car you keep replacing parts on, cept it never runs any better.
Linux is the kit car :D - ZombieSociety, on 04/05/2008, -2/+14Buried for the use of "Windows Vista" without the phrases "doesn't work" and/or "giant OS X ripoff."
- skidooer, on 04/05/2008, -1/+10Is this really a good idea? Pasty white Linux nerds + Sun = A recipe for skin cancer.
- smacksaw, on 04/05/2008, -0/+9Windows is like a car with a mysterious ignition gremlin. You drive for awhile, the car gets slower and then dies. Then you restart it and it runs well, getting progressively worse until it dies again.
Don't insult Bugatti with that comparison. If you knew anything about the history, rarity and coachbuilding history connected with Bugatti, it couldn't be closer to Linux in customisation and raw power analogies.
Don't use car analogies unless you understand them, because people like me who are car buffs and use both Linux and Windows will point out your stupidity in public. - isiah1, on 04/05/2008, -2/+11And my mom told me that Vista people take it in the ass. Hows life knowing that you need to make sure your anti-virus, spyware, and adware definitions are up to date so you can go online.
- cellplex, on 04/05/2008, -1/+9You went to dinner with a friend and talked about sun and Ubuntu? Blimey, your parties must be a riot.
- darthmdh, on 04/05/2008, -0/+6If you install the desktop version of Ubuntu, sure. If you install the server version, you don't even get X11 by default.
The server version is great because you get all the manageability goodness of dpkg/apt without all the political BS surrounding non-GPL'd software plus a masochistic community like Debian. It's also a very small install which is great for VMware images etc. Sun make fantastic hardware which is so rock solid it puts rocks to shame, its great to see them backing more open source stuff; I always thought they were stupidly recalcitrant in the beginning. - noisey, on 04/05/2008, -0/+6Sun farms out the x86 servers, and marks them up quite a bit. Any IT guy who buys a Sun server based on Intel and their chipsets and then installs Linux, is just wasting money. They are nice servers, but you're paying for (certified) Solaris compatibility.
- ramenite, on 04/05/2008, -1/+7Forget Apple; OSX is a terrible OS, and Apple is too closed with their hardware. There is still no support for the [Insert a lot of Apple used hardware] on *BSD/Linux because Sun refuses to provide any documentation.
At my University we decided to replace our Apple machines with x86_84 machines and Linux for this very reason; Apple doesn't even offer free upgrades for legacy Apple systems anymore. Inherit an OSX box? Good luck keeping it up to date without an expensive support contract, now that Apple no longer offers the update clusters for free.
Maybe replacing Sun with Apple sounds a little trollish to start. But the above still holds true. Anytime you purchase a total solution for hardware/software from one vendor that ties them so closely together, you get situations like that. It's not Sun specific. - ralphthemagi, on 04/05/2008, -1/+7Ohhh. I'm sorry. No, the answer was naggers. People who annoy you. Naggers. Sorry, so close.
- ramenite, on 04/05/2008, -1/+6And another reply, because I didn't type everything I wanted to in the previous comment. And I'd like to point out I'm far from some MS shill here. I just happen to like the .NET platform. Wanted to give a concrete example of something C# does better than Java.
I want to write a networked program. Obviously if I don't want it to block, so I have to do an async read/write on the socket I create. In C#, this is as easy as calling BeginRead, and giving it a callback function to call when it's done reading data. BeginRead will kick off a new thread, add it to the tread poll automatically. The callback can handle the data, and just kick off BeginRead again. Simple and obvious, and I have a multithreaded application.
If I wanted to do this in Java, I'd have to manage the threading with my own code, And it wouldn't be as clean as just one line, then writing a callback. Maybe some 3rd party Java classes do this, but that's not part of the current Java SDK(as far as I know anyways). - praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -0/+5The sentences you're forming are not making any sense. Please try again tomorrow.
- PaulRay, on 04/05/2008, -3/+8Blah Blah M$ Blah Blah Fan Boy Blah Blah afraid of what I don't understand Blah Blahh SP1... Oh *****!
- doublebummer, on 04/05/2008, -0/+5http://www.eclipse.org/swt/
- Stonekeeper, on 04/05/2008, -3/+8The only thing stopping .NET where it can go, is patents and a litigious company behind it.
- init100, on 04/05/2008, -0/+5I'd say that Vista also smells like fish, but there are many kinds of fish. I'd take Salmon (Linux) over Surströmming (Vista) any day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surstr%C3%B6mming - ramenite, on 04/05/2008, -3/+8C# is a language, .NET is a platform.
There's a bunch of things .NET does better than the Java platform. But the biggest is it is language agnostic. I want to target the JVM, I have to use Java. If i want to use .NET, I have a bunch of languages I can use, C# among them. .NET as a whole, is also better laid out and designed. but that's just my opinion.
I can code a program using C#, and with .NET and MONO, write an application targeting Windows,Linux, and OS X. Hell, if I wanted to, because a lot of OSX users don't like widget sets that aren't native, I can use Cocoa#, and the only thing I have to change is my frontend. Linux users could get GTK, with GTK# even.
There's a lot the .NET platform brings to the table, C# among them if you choose to use it. Too bad general anti-MS bias may not let it go where it can. - spoulson, on 04/05/2008, -1/+6Not everybody uses Java for its GUI. There's pleny of JSP/Servlet apps out there developed by big business. They only GUI they see is Eclipse.
- 10wattmindtrip, on 04/05/2008, -0/+4"GNOME is writtin in C and KDE in C++..."
I think he means applications such as Tomboy, Beagle, Banshee etc..
Those are some good examples of MONO development being done in the Gnome environment.
I have tinkered with both Java and C#. I must say I like C# using Mono a little bit better. Though, I just can't stay away from my Java.. I love my Java. - binarybyron, on 04/05/2008, -3/+7yes I'm at a loss too, what does C# offer that Java does not (and visa vera)? Seems more like a business decision than a religious one.
- PaulRay, on 04/05/2008, -1/+5Well for one, I don't live with My Mom. I have a real, grown-up life.
But hey, it's all good, you have your Mommy and Vista. I'm sure they are both very proud of you. - GMorgan, on 04/05/2008, -0/+4It doesn't say buy out Canonical. In fact Shuttleworth would never allow this.
They can however work with the various projects to make it so there is top quality support for their products. They can also work with the Ubuntu team to make sure that Ubuntu can be a first class and supported option on their machines. - mrsteveman1, on 04/05/2008, -0/+4I wonder if anyone regrets canceling that SPARC ubuntu port last year....not that i care, sun makes nice hardware with x86 in the box too.
- neonpulse, on 04/05/2008, -0/+3Nexenta what?
http://www.nexenta.org/os - inactive, on 04/05/2008, -0/+3/g/ is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
- SQLserver, on 04/05/2008, -1/+4"just like walmart though they could sell low end Ubuntu desktops."
Wallmart has never sold an Ubuntu computer.
"EVEN LINUX USERS RUN uTORRENT under wine."
What ***** is this? There are several BETTER clients for Linux.
Your whole post is complete crap. - GMorgan, on 04/05/2008, -1/+4Windows is the Model T. Horribly designed with numerous flaws. It's still the largest volume model ever sold because it was practically first there in the consumer market.
- mheath, on 04/05/2008, -0/+3What kind of performance are you looking for? The Java JIT often produces code that is faster than the C/C++ equivalent. Java is plenty fast.
- robbiemuffin, on 04/05/2008, -1/+4ramen's got some good points (and makes a bowl of noodles that is hand's-down the best you can get for under $0.50), but that's really a comparison of .NET to JAVA, not C# to JAVA. But the reason he jumped off the deep end there is because .NET is what C# has over JAVA.
Plain and simple, the object model ties into real world things built onto the computer at the application level. - ramenite, on 04/05/2008, -3/+6Mono support .NET 3.5 support now. C# is far from being tied to Windows. There's two common misconceptions with C# and .NET. It's not tied to Windows, and Mono has support.
I can use C# and Mono and code applications today with it, without any tied to Windows. Some parts of the gnome desktop are even coded using it. - poivreblanc, on 04/05/2008, -1/+4I'm no fan boy, my 1st computer was running on Windows 95, and i have a lot of respect for microsoft products, but since windows xp microsoft have not made major innovations, i try Ubuntu and I like it and for the time being I believe that it is an excellent OS
- BrainInAJar, on 04/05/2008, -0/+3Any reason? Just hate Sun?
did an Ultra60 kill your dad? - BrainInAJar, on 04/05/2008, -0/+3Niagra (UltraSPARC T1) is sexy.
- Dopeskills, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2I think that this article exaggerates the momentum of Ubuntu's enterprise relevance. They really don't have that much momentum in the corporate space compared to Red Hat and Novel.
- GMorgan, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2Sun don't sell desktops. Linux has no trouble gaining market share in the server market.
You are comparing apples and oranges. I wouldn't accept a GUI wasting memory on a server either. - SlvrEagle23, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2Java is stellar for building strong, stable cross-platform apps, and I've seen plenty of large examples of this. JSP is a perfectly decent solution for web applications as well.
Where I think much of Java's poor reputation comes from is the horrendous performance notoriously associated with web applets. While it's only a subset of the type of development possible with Java, it's one of the highest-profile subsets, because users are often very aware of the fact that they're running a Java applet; maybe they were forced to install the JVM, or the little balloon popped up in the bottom right corner, or they watched the loading screen. Applications created and deployed as web applets are hated for startup delays, unresponsiveness, and general poor UI quality.
When I'm using Eclipse, I don't ever get the feeling that Java is making it slower or hindering its performance at all, but when I'm running some little web applet, I pretty much always get that feeling. My guess is that a huge majority of people evaluate Java more poorly because of this, not because of any other actual experience they've had with it. - GMorgan, on 04/05/2008, -1/+3They exist but are hopelessly inefficient because the JVM is very much a VM designed to be as close to Java's needs as possible (remember it wasn't long ago we had the 'one VM, one language' line of though from Sun). The .NET CLR has a much more generalised set of opcodes, you can perform things like proper tail calls even though C# doesn't use them.
Sun seem to be fixing the JVM but it is taking time. If they had started with a language agnostic VM they'd be in a stronger position by now. The new work on dynamic languages should greatly improve the speed of the languages you've mentioned. - tinybubs, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2"...and you'll find some that can bring down the entire window manager."
That is if you can get the Window Manager to work in the first place - GMorgan, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2What parts of Solaris aren't open source?
//edit - OOo and Java are nothing to do with Solaris. ZFS has always been open source.// - BrainInAJar, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2I dunno, that may be true of older kit, but the niagra and niagra-ii machines ( UltraSPARC T1 ) are pretty hot depending on the applications ( Solaris AMP server? a T1000 will chew that up and kick the crap out of half a rack's worth of xeons )
- iamtherealwoody, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2You sir, are an idiot.
- Richdiet, on 04/05/2008, -1/+3Java will scratch some people's itch, C#/.NET will do it for others. The reasons may be a different mix of things for different people. Like explained here: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/20
- MrViklund, on 04/05/2008, -2/+4rofl
- wolferz, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2Yes but a big business brings resources that a small group of core devs and a large mishmash of people spread out all over the world simply can't.
My personal experience has taught me that, with open source, the project's backed by major companies are generally more stable, more reliable, better performing, have better laid out interfaces, are better supported, and still have most of the goodness of open source.
Now always is never true and never is always false but as a general rule open source projects backed by a big business' tend to be better projects. There has to be a reason for that. - diggimator, on 04/05/2008, -0/+2My general impression was that you're wasting time doing anything but programming in C# and deploying for Windows if you're programming for .NET, because support for other programming languages & OSes were promised, but were actually weak/kludgy or non-existent. Similar to how you can write programs in Carbon, Java, or Cocoa for OS X but you really need to learn Objective-C for best results. Also not a strong argument if you have a team of programmers already comfortable with Java.
- poivreblanc, on 04/05/2008, -2/+4wtf
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