What is Digg?223 Comments
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -9/+104Wait a second!
why is he showing pictures of an old version of ubuntu http://www.informationweek.com/galleries/showImage.jhtml?galleryID=24&imageID=1&articleID=199201179 ? The graphical partitioner was removed from ubiquity for 7.04. And the reviewer says that Beryl isn't install by default, but never mentions that Compiz is installed by default ("In addition, Beryl isn't installed by default in Ubuntu, and Aero isn't available on all PCs").
And then he says "Playing MP3s, however, is not something you can do out of the box. It wasn't immediately clear what I could do to fix that, but after some research I found a separate codec pack (called the Gstreamer Plugins package) which solved the problem." Did he even try double-clicking on an mp3? In 7.04, it will download the codec for you. It sounds to me like he already "knew" that mp3s wouldn't play, so he wrote that sentence to sound like it was some difficult technical hurdle to overcome, I guess to add some artificial conflict(?) to appear balanced.
Also he goes on to review Konserve for a backup program. What about Home User Backup, a native in-house Ubuntu package (apt-get install hubackup)? Just totally misses that even though it appears when you search for "backup" in gnome-app-install.
His conclusion says "Ubuntu's best strength is handling the ordinary task-based day-to-day stuff. Vista has a level of completeness and polish that some people find it hard to do without." AKA "Ubuntu's great for basic things, but doesn't compare to Vista's commercial polish". Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it.
This article just tries to sound balanced all the way by inventing artificial pros and cons for both platforms in order to give the reader the impression that the conclusion must be balanced as well. :( Boo for bad tech journalism - matrox212, on 10/12/2007, -24/+84"Vista, on the other hand, has a level of completeness and polish in many small respects that some people find it hard to do without -- the way hardware devices are handled, for instance."
That pretty much sums up the reality for the average PC user. Despite the notable gains in Linux in recent years, which are laudable, it's still never as complete a package as Windows or OSX. The main problem with all Linux distros is hardware integration. For instance, when I ran Ubuntu on my laptop, there was no easy way to adjust screen brightness or other power management so my battery-life dropped about 40% compared to running Vista Home Premium. That in itself was a deal breaker however, in addition to that, WPA wasn't supported (it might be now), card readers did not work and hotkeys did not work.
The issues that did have work around were extremely complicated and the others were just a lost cause. To sum it up, paying a company to develop an OS to work perfectly with your hardware isn't a bad deal. Why the pro-linux crowd frowns upon the people who do that is always baffling to me. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -20/+70To the author, it should be clear that changing software is not like changing diapers. It takes time to learn new things and acquire more software and hardware that is perfectly compatible. Skills likewise. Evidently, this reviewer provides a (or "yet another") case of Mr. John Bloggs tries Lunix (sic) for a week and then reports on differences wrt Windows [XP|Vista] (siblings), which the reviewer has used for over a decade.
Chnage takes time. The "grandma" reference at the end must assumed that $Grandma has never used $Operating_System. Fair judgment is one that oblivious to prejudice and convenient assumptions. - Tyr7BE, on 10/12/2007, -13/+60Not just that, but with regard to software installation:
"It's a tie. Both operating systems show much the same centralization and efficiency in dealing with applications, protocols, and programs."
EXCUSE ME?? So if I go out and buy Vista, and I want to install firefox, you're telling me that I could just got to Add/Remove Programs, click on Firefox, and hit the Install button, and Vista will go download it from a repository, install it, configure it, and put it in my menu system? Cause that's exactly what happens in Ubuntu.
He also gives Vista points for having all info about installed hardware in a single place, and doesn't even mention Ubuntu's Device Manager, which is basically a carbon copy of Vista's device manager that he holds so esteemed.
It really does seem like this guys is out to pump Vista up. Buried as inaccurate. - darthsnoopy, on 10/12/2007, -7/+35or..use gimp in windows...http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/
The Gimp is not something to use in a debate about windows vs. linux. It's something to use in a debate about the quality of open source projects. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just doesnt belong in the linux/windows discussions IMO - underthelinux, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31Yeah when i read this, my first reactioon was that they downplayed the use of aptitude/synaptic. I think that is a clear win for ubuntu (or even linux, for that matter). I don't have to browse to websites to find programs, download things, worry about trial versions and all that crap. Although, when a package is not found in a repository, it can be significantly more complicated to install.
I'm talking about ease of install, not $$ for programs. I think ubuntu/linux wins, simply because package management. - postenl, on 10/12/2007, -4/+29@matrox
I think you have things backwards, at least to a certain extent.
A big reason why things like your laptop work better in windows is because the hardware is built to work with windows, not the other way around. I'm pretty sure if you bought a laptop from system76 or anyone else that designs their systems to work with linux you wouldn't have these problems. I think its pretty impressive how much stuff actually does work in linux when you consider how many hardware manufacturers don't support it at all and the community has to do the work of reverse engineering drivers and such. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24I hate these types of articles. Here's why: ....it only generates these types of brain-numbingly stupid arguments:
argue:
Linux: "Ubuntu's the best!"
Windows: "Fuk you!!!1111onethousandonehundredeleven Vista is teh PWN!"
Linux: "OMG STFU NUH UH"
Windows: "YUH HUH"
Mac: "Buy a Mac"
Windows and Linux: "dude stfu"
goto argue - fuckingusername, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24oh god another site that makes you go through 20 pages because of so much spam , and 2 inches is left for the main article, build a real site you #$%^& nuts
- armbo, on 10/12/2007, -16/+37@matrox212
I suppose what upsets Linux users (myself included) most about people using Windows 'because it works' is due to the fact that Microsoft cripples Linuxes ability to work closer and better with the hardware.
Remember that memo from Bill about wanting to make ACPI functions not compatible with Linux? That's my point.
I suppose the Windows USERS get yelled at because by purchasing Windows, you are supporting monopolistic corporations in all their evil, and that's not appreciated because guess what? The card readers don't work for us, either, and until Linux has a sizable user base companies wont be taking Linux drivers and support seriously. By bowing out and away from Linux you slow down the progress.
That's just me, and I could be wrong. I took the time to think about your statement, "Why the pro-Linux crowd frowns upon the people who do that is always baffling to me" and decided to let you know why I think that is. - geomon, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25@bclinton
Please, do not run Linux. I beg of you. You are too ill-equipped to run such an unsophisticated operating system such as Linux.
My 12-year-old daughter, however, is editing configuration files in her /etc directory and has three x.org settings depending on which monitor she is using.
My 17-year-old has dual monitor setup on her Linux box.
My 19-year-old has been running Linux since he was 14.
But you? Probably not capable enough. Please keep running your superior technology: Windows. - Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23The purpose of Ubuntu is to be user friendly, making a script or even a cron job is not user friendly.
- coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Here's to hoping the version after next will be codenamed Hungry Hippo.
- Tyr7BE, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21"it can be significantly more complicated to install. "
Depends. For the last few versions of Ubuntu, you just download the package file and double-click. It will auto-download all dependencies and install the package. If the dependencies aren't available, then you have to go get them yourself, but that's the same as with any piece of Windows software (ie, if something needs java, and you don't have java, you have to go get java before you can run your java app...Ubuntu will at least install java for you if it's at all possible). - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18I think you meant to type in www.myspace.com before commenting
- klawz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14AGREED! I hate them too - next time, look for the PRINT link - usually they are layed out better.. this one has one, so for those reading this who want, use this link instead, or use the original one, but click on print:
http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=199201179 - glxyjones, on 10/12/2007, -23/+35Not sure how he mentions GIMP as more of a sidenote when comparing the image editing of both platforms. Seems to me like GIMP is a major benefit over Vista out of the box, without paying hundreds (more) for Photoshop.
Stuff like that makes me think he was a little biast towards Vista. - bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Most Ubuntu users don't want to compile their programs from source code.
- Scyth3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Of course grandma's don't want to edit config files with vi. They prefer nano :)
- Jabertsohn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I once bought a laptop from Dell that had Windows pre-installed on it, after about 5 minutes of use I got a blue screen of death out of nowhere. When I re-installed Windows using the disc I already had the serial code I got with the machine wasn't valid. But we can't use single obscure problems to make sweeping judgments about a whole OS... right?
- postenl, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Same here, now if Vista was free I might have to reconsider things. One thing that annoys me about these articles is they almost always fail to mention some of the clear cut advantages of linux. Stability is pretty important to me. I like that I can run ubuntu with nothing but a router as a firewall and don't have to worry about viruses or malware. Where as with windows I have to run some resource hogging virus software and still have to reload the OS every 4-6 months to keep the system running smooth. And of course the lack of DRM in ubuntu is also pretty important to me.
- hockey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Don't forget these :
"I tried this for about 5 minutes and it couldn't do everything I wanted so it SUX"
"I couldn't figure it out for my machine so it SUX"
"I think 'x' feature blowz so the OS SUX" - ostracize, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Allow me to summarize:
They're basically equal
Allow me to tip the scale properly:
* Cost of Ubuntu -> $0.30 for a blank CD
* Cost of Vista -> $300
Case closed. - stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Perhaps, however in business the cost of Ubuntu is negligible if you take into account the amount it would cost to retrain your staff to use Vista.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Flashiness !== content or quality. See any American superstar for more examples.
- gridbread, on 10/12/2007, -12/+20Aside from games, Windows has been beaten for quite some time now.
- sid0, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13@Schpariel: Maybe you'd like to look at the conclusion:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/page11.html#conclusion_ko_for_windows_vista
They've concluded that:
a. Synthetic benchmarks have no difference
b. Video encoding programs do have a difference (I said PLAYING video), and games too
c. Vista looks and feels better
d. The indexing/other features don't come for free
e. In the long run it won't make a difference
I remember that they concluded in another article that Superfetch makes a hell of a difference.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/31/windows-vista-superfetch-and-readyboostanalyzed/page6.html
The indexing/error reporting present in XP is, quite frankly, laughable compared to the Vista versions. The slowdown in games can mostly be attributed to bad drivers. So what I will grant you is that you may not want to switch to Vista for a couple of months. To say that "VISTA SUXXORS LOL!!!!!!111!" because of this is to be childish. - phantom_mullet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I don't know....I felt that this article tried to take a middle-of-the-road approach. The problem I had with it was that it tried to compare open source software (such as OpenOffice and Gimp) with the crap applications that come with Vista (Wordpad and Paint). Honestly, who uses Wordpad and Paint? (I can see Wordpad for developers, but still...) I dunno, I thought this article did a crap job and tried to appease everyone, but that's just my 2 cents.
- tehkain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7synaptic.... Why does everyone think there is no gui alternative. Also if you need to compile from source then your not a grandma. You are most likley downloading something that is beyond your ability. Why not stick with the debs/package/repos... It is grandma ready. Why? Mine has been using it since 6.04.
- unikuser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@ryodoan
One does'nt have to keep up with the speed of the kernel. You just have to release your specification and all the drivers upgrading is taken care of by the kernel developers. Also provided you make the hardware according to the specifications(which is hard with 3rd grade companies or for any other reason), your hardware is already supported by linux. - stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11^That's because Microsoft's license to major OEMs required that they put vista on new machines. So that number is actually the normal amount of regular computer buyers. All the computers just happen to have Vista installed on them now. So MS is counting those pre-installed computers in that figure.
- leszek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10In fact, they ARE compatible with linux (except InDesign):
Congratulations, you can now try linux before criticizing it again.
halflife 2: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=2095
prey: http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=5202
photoshop: http://blog.publicidadpixelada.com/how-to-adobe-photoshop-cs2-on-ubuntu-10-steps/ - ryodoan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@armbo
It is my understanding that many companies do not offer Linux driver support for a couple reasons.
1. Legacy Support is a pain. In order to keep Linux streamlined, if something has a problem, or if something better is written, the old way of doing stuff is washed out. This is good for the operating system, but bad for hardware manufacturers. They are forced to be constantly updating their drivers to work with each flavor of linux, and it is just not worth their time.
Windows on the other hand holds onto all of its old code and works with the hardware companies to produce workarounds so their drivers still function. While this makes it easier for hardware drivers to stay compatible this creates a buggy, bloated system that becomes easier to exploit.
2. It is a smaller user base. While this is a reason, I think #1 is the main reason. - Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -11/+17I can understand your qualms with Vista in the office. But Office 2007 is genuinely the best Office Suite ever made.
- rGizmo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7alll working
- sid0, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Maybe you'd be interested in this too:
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista_performance_amd_catalyst_7.1/page12.asp
"While we did note a few titles with sluggish performance (F.E.A.R. and to a lesser extent Half-Life 2 Lost Coast being the most notable), *we were honestly surprised to register as many performance improvements as we saw*, particularly with the Radeon X1950 XTX and surprisingly enough, with the Radeon X1650 XT as well."
I'd now go on a tangent and say that the anti-MS FUD is far worse than the pro-MS FUD (it does exist, I'll grant that). Case in point: why was my comment about Office 07 dugg down? Linux zealots I presume.
Vista does not suck. Get over it. - sid0, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10You argue that OOo is good enough for the home user, right? I'm showing you a version of Office that's good enough for the home user.
Sorry, but I don't consider products on price alone, I also take quality into account. If you claim that Office 2007 is somehow worse than OOo... well, you'll be so far removed from reality that I can't argue with you. - BHSPitMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"The prevailing wisdom about Linux on the desktop runs something like this: "I'll believe Linux is ready for the desktop as soon as you can give me a Linux distribution that even my grandmother can run.""
I installed Ubuntu 6.10 on my grandmother's computer a few months ago, because it makes her computing experience -easier-. Having said that, she struggles with computers, and she's had about 10% of the problems she had on XP. - bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I must have missed the joke. They've already leaked the next version's name.
- jspegele, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I don't think he used 7.04, which would explain the old screen shots. Last I checked, Adobe Reader still wasn't supported in the 7.04 repository. So how did he install it through the Add/Remove Applications?
- ruz322, on 10/12/2007, -30/+35"Vista's Add/Remove Programs panel probably served as the inspiration for Ubuntu's software management console."
Are you kidding me? Vista could not dream of having the functionality of the Ubuntu add/remove software manager! There is one big difference in the two. You have to pay for the software you add in Vista, all the Ubuntu stuff is free! - klawz, on 10/12/2007, -10/+15Yea, tap water is free too, but you see people paying over $13.00 a gallon for bottled water, all the time, with no real benefit other than taste, and they can buy a water filter that is 1000x cheaper if they are all that worried about taste.
- grumpyrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5> Not sure how he mentions GIMP as more of a sidenote when comparing the image editing of both platforms. Seems to me like GIMP is a major benefit over Vista out of the box, without paying hundreds (more) for Photoshop.
Mentioning GIMP is like mentioning Open Office. Both can be installed on Vista using by double clicking an exe (or two exe files for Gimp - http://gimp-win.sourceforge.net/stable.html ). The only bonus for with respect to image editing on Ubuntu is that it comes pre-installed. - EmxBA, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Looks like usual battle between best Linux distro and Microsoft's new OS. But, the most of the problems are in the writer, who didn't test newest release of Ubuntu, and many things are not well known to him.
- jownz, on 10/12/2007, -13/+18$5 says the next Ubuntu release is named "Gutsy Goat" ... not to be mistaken with Goatse Goat..
- Robotsu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I love GNU/Linux, but this childish mentality gives the community a bad name. Please, grow up.
- rusty075, on 10/12/2007, -11/+16But Time is not free. If I'm paying my employees $25 an hour and the time lost retraining them in Linux and Linux software when they already know Windows is more than about 4 hours, then the "free" software is costing me more than the commercial software would have.
At home you may not have employees, but your time still has value. If you are already Windows-literate the time spent learning Linux and getting it to work right on your particular machine is time that could have been spent doing something more enjoyable. If I had to pick between paying $100 and spending half an hour installing Vista on my mothers computer, or spending $0 and several hours, plus numerous phone calls over the following weeks and months, teaching her how to use Ubuntu, I would buy the Windows every time.
That is, of course, unless learning Linux IS enjoyable to you. For many of us it is, which is why Linux has a larger user base in the "computer enthusiast" market than it does in the "casual user" market. Until someone develops a Linux product that leverages the entirety of the Windows user base's knowledge, and requires little or no new knowledge to operate, and installs on as many machines as simply as Windows does, Linux will continue to struggle for market penetration beyond the hobbyists. Installation troubles are still a huge hurdle, even for Ubuntu. You ever try to troubleshoot bungled drivers on a machine when you don't have internet access via another computer in the house? Thats enough to drive me to drinkin'. The trouble is, if someone does develop a product that does all that the chances are that they will be selling it, not giving it away. - leszek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7delete
- bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9@mcatrage: I recommend Envy for setting up your video card (assuming you want to use the proprietary drivers). http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/nvidia/scripts/envy_0.9.2-0ubuntu5_all.deb
It works for both ATI and Nvidia cards. - Scyth3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6You'll blend well.
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