What is Digg?88 Comments
- ElectricSoup, on 10/12/2007, -6/+45It's an interesting article. I already saw this at Slashdot where it raised the predictable (for /.) reaction that here was yet more proof that Linux was "ready for the desktop". While it certainly is in at least some situations, the article is hardly proof of that but rather gives numerous evidences of problems that would have stymied a less knowledgeable user, and one wonders how anyone could come away without realizing that--except that they is what they have already decided in advance to see. As you read down the page at Slashdot you begin to come upon some more realistic posts. This is representative of the cooler heads:
" 'By manually entering the vertical and horizontal sync in the xorg.conf file it fixed the problem for my 1440x900 screen and I was able to load the LiveCD and finally install Feisty on the hard drive.'
"If Windows is too hard for people (and it is), what on Earth makes you think mortals will be able to do that? That's not a mature product designed for end users, despite how (otherwise) nice Ubuntu is."
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=226973&cid=18384029
There's also an interesting post from a user who suggests, correctly I think, that government and business, not home users, are the really key markets for Linux distros:
"The group that will initially drive Linux adoption (whether *buntu or other) will be governments and businesses.
"The majority (99.9%+) of workers in those two categories will not be focused on the latest hardware and toys. They use wired connections, 2D graphics and save their data onto a central server. Their users do not maintain nor upgrade their boxes. They have experts who do that for them. And being Debian-based, *buntu is very easy to upgrade/maintain."
But we'll see. Ubuntu and other distros will only improve with time, and, with any luck, will be available pre-installed and with the necessary multimedia codecs sooner rather than later. - ralph123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17About having to manually enter the modelines:
It's a known bug and it's an alpha (not even beta) version.
So I wouldn't really call someone calling an alpha version not a mature product a "cooler head". - KataLieb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Ehh, Feisty is not even READY yet, this release that was reviewed is NOT even BETA yet...But a bug testing release, Herd 5. Its not really fair to comment on bugs, sure there are bugs at this point, theyre being fixed all the time. I started testing on my secondary box a few weeks ago on Herd 3, and found installer bugs that prevented me from even installing it. I reported the bugs as is customary when using a testing release. And guess what? Theyve been fixed now, and I could proceed to install and test the OS itself. Ive found more bugs, in network manager for example, and reported those too. THAT is what youre supposed to do with a testing release, NOT gripe about "ITS GOT BUGS!!". Gripe when its released in April (10th?).
- PixelVision, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11you know not of ancient.
- chroko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I'm running Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy) and I did not have to edit a text file to get my LCD screen resolution configured correctly (1680x1050). A default install just worked.
(...I had to edit a text file to use the closed-source ATI video drivers for better accelerated OpenGL - but that's another story, I'll base my next videocard purchase on who has the best open-source Linux drivers at the time). - barneygumble, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15"With Ubuntu Feisty Fawn's latest test beta --for the first time ever-- this was not the case."
Please folks, you must realize this is still in ALPHA. Wait for the April release because I can say without any reservations, the new release will exceed your linux expectations. But jumping onto an Alpha release might sour your pallet. - chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Grandma couldn't install or configure XP on her own. No way.
Install. Get drivers for network (usb key). Activate. Update. Restart. Update. Restart. Update. Video Drivers. Oops, they require dotNet 2 (hour later and two more restarts), sound card driver. This is ignoring turning off the "welcome to XP", "Click this balloon to make it shut up" and all the other noise, setting resolution, refresh, and color depth, etc.
Antivirus. Antispyware. Alternative browser (unless you want to just give Grandma IE7).
And... there. Now she can... well, she can't print yet. She can't spell check yet. She could maybe use Outlook Express... but that needs setting up too (actually needs to be replaced with Thunderbird).
So... what? Another hour? Two? Three? For a geek to set everything up and make sure s/he won't have to come back in two days?
Meanwhile: http://osnews.com/read_thread.php?news_id=17505&comment_id=222104
You could practically talk your grandmother over the phone with a Feisty install. That night she could use it and have web surfing, security, and most everything just work. Get around to setting up any other fringe stuff next week. Or if you are there, set it up, half hour later you've got her system set and it *doesn't just break* like Windows does. You can optionally setup a really nice, background backup system for her. She wouldn't even have to know it is backing her stuff up into a nice, hidden gzipped tar file.
I broke the GUI in Windows. Uh oh. Repair install? Full reinstall? Call a geek and ask him for three to four hours to install XP and configure all that crap.
I broke the GUI in Linux. Call a geek. xserver-xorg rebuild. Fall back to nv or vesa. Whatever. It can be made to work. Probably remotely through SSH too. - hiro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The first person to point out that it is an alpha release did the job, the following 20 odd people repeating it just pissed me off
- Securitron, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10The more I see things like Ubuntu become more widespread and successful, the more hope I have for humankind.
- chaos386, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@carvetia:
The name of the OS is Ubuntu. The official names of the versions are 6.06, 6.10, 7.04, etc. (signifying the year and month in which they were released). "Dapper Drake", "Edgy Eft", "Feisty Fawn" and so on are just code names for each version, and are not mentioned on either Ubuntu's homepage or their download page. Yes, the code names are commonly used by the community, similar to how processors might be referenced by their core's codename (Venice, Conroe, Manchester, Clovertown, etc.), but that does not necessarily mean these names are used for marketing. - ropers, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12You lost Joe Schmoe at "xorg.conf file".
- KataLieb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Bah. What about "Longhorn" and "Tiger" and "Panther"....Maybe it should be named "Killer Shark" then...Would that be business-believable enough? If it bothers so much, use just the numbers...7.04! So credible!
- starsky51, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I have a feeling you'll be pleasantly surprised by the progress of Ubuntu. Give it a go. Welcome to the 21st century!
(I realise you were trolling, but i figured i'd give you a proper response) - ray73864, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think the thing that is really going to hurt Linux in general (be it *buntu, redhat, or any other distro) with regards to the corporate market (most likely government too) is that these places rely very heavilly on "Active Directory" for doing housekeeping, user account management, computer account management, as well as group policy for deploying software out to hundreds of computers at a time without ever having to leave the comfort of their chair.
For Linux distro's to be able to succeed in government and corporate markets they need to focus more heavilly on providing something that can either A) Integrate very well with AD (Samba doesn't quite cut it, some might say it is easy to integrate but it isn't) or B) Come up with a very well created, structured, documented and organised linux version of AD, then, big companies might actually start to move over.
Typically, the businesses that are moving over to Linux distros are the ones that don't use AD much at all, and Schools don't count, over here in Australia the majority of schools do rely heavilly on AD even if the USA schools don't.
I for one quite like Linux, i have a Linux web server at the primary school i work at, but when you can get a volume license key for Vista or Office 2007 (this includes license, software and the product key) for $AUD 27.00 Linux just doesn't cut it, especially since Support costs money even if Linux Distro's themselves are free. - bpfoley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What about Active Directory? A business can setup Novell eDirectory which supports far greater security and supports a wider base of Operating Systems. When it comes to directory services AD is still new to the game.
- Tarmas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ ralph123
"About having to manually enter the modelines:
It's a known bug and it's an alpha (not even beta) version."
Sorry to prove you wrong, but I had to do it each and every single time since I installed Ubuntu on my box for the first time. I started with version 5.04, now I'm running 6.10. The box that I'm using has a pretty generic Intel-based video card, so this is rediculous.
This is not a problem for me, but go on, tell an average Joe to edit the xorg.conf. I bet my ass that he'll dump Linux altogether. Mind you, I'm an Ubuntu user, but the article implies that it's ready for desktop use. My opinion is that it's not and still requires a lot of work. - SimonGray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I actually like the whitespace found in GTK+ (and OSX, I believe) applications. I hate those crowded little windows in Windows/KDE especially on my big resolution screen...
- cataphoresis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What makes you think the content's illegal? The fact that the video files are mp4 (and one has 1080p, and I doubt it's an HD-DVD rip since those are more than likely not mp4 and not 1 file) might hint that they're just trailers the guy downloaded online. As for the episode of Lost, there are plenty of legal ways to have an episode on your computer (media PC anybody?) - it's no more illegal than having a copy of it on your DVR or a VHS. Yes troll, I bit.
- tippmann1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6we didn't really need you to tell us to =)
- Yogurth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The empty space is there for a reason. It makes eyes/brain/hand coordination easier and it is built on purpose like that. KDE on the other hand suffers from clutter where there should be none. Look at KDE toolbars for instance and then look at Gnome toolbars, a massive difference in usability.
With screens getting bigger and bigger the empty space helps "organize" desktop in head and there is it's use - darkyoshi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5and that's why yours is on the front page, right?
- SimonGray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That Language support feature is not found in XP. Not sure about Vista, but I really doubt it...
You can install any language on the fly by "switching" to it. Ubuntu then apt-gets the appropriate packages and installs them for you. - codyman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Ubuntu Studio Looks promising as well... can't wait to see more details about it
I've been testing feisty on my ancient amd athlon xp 1800+ / 256mb ram desktop... and it runs great! I run sudo apt-get update / upgrade once a day and have noticed that there has been a lot of updating of packages recently... Ubuntu is really on the ball about this release - b3mus3d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3like a lamb taking it's first shaky steps...
- Invid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's working with mine (BCM4306) using ndiswrapper. Not bad considering that there are no linux drivers for the card. Try it and see.
- ray73864, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I guess it comes with having weird hardware, i have installed XP on many computers (over 40 of them) and in 5 cases i had to pull out the drivers CD to install drivers that XP didn't know about, it recognised laser printers, scanners, digital cameras and inkjet printers without ever having to go grab the drivers cd for them.
I know of many people (first time users) who have not had any problems installing XP onto a system (including my idiot parents).
But then, maybe it is an Aussie trait (i dunno?).
On another note, i remember when i did an upgrade of Ubuntu from dapper to edgy on a computer, as soon as it finished installing all its updates the computer did a restart and then it all went pear shaped, the kernel was not compatible with some hardware inside the computer and i had to reformat and reinstall dapper onto the computer (never to install edgy onto it again), which is a bit sad as i use Ubuntu for all my web servers. - Sentinel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Will it work with my Broadcom wireless yet?
- sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2huguenot21,
The public also wants some proper spacing and punctuation and capitalization. I'm not one of those grammar asshats that jump down people's throats and say their arguments are null and void because of a few mistakes, but go try put spaces after each sentence for the sake of readability. Proper English has two spaces after the period, but just one is fine here and you can see I'm only using one space. It is customary in any European language to begin each sentence with a capital letter.
Now to answer your concerns the best that I can, given the limited readability of your post. Drag and drop seems better in Linux than in Windows and is a not an issue. Most of the time the xorg.conf file is correct. However,I've had to manually edit it mine in the past as well and this is something the average user should not have to do. I would suggest that there just be a simple GUI tool to edit the xorg.conf file; it can't be that hard to make. I'm not a programmer, otherwise I would just code one myself. Having said that, if the resolution of your monitor is not correct, just go to your given distro's forums. For the major distros at least, I can almost guarantee somebody else has asked already and fixing it is trivial.
Overall, Linux is more ready for the desktop than Windows, particularly Vista. - KataLieb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yup, its still ALPHA, not beta. Will be in couple days.
- KungFuJesus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3that's not a problem with "linux" apps, it's a problem with GNOME apps
most KDE apps aren't like that
http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/3.5/32-htmleditor.png - chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@woxidu
No, it is not in beta. The links to the CD images don't work (in fact, they have a big FIXME above them because they have nothing to link to yet).
1st beta in three days or so: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeistyReleaseSchedule
You can not download a beta. You can not update to a beta. It is still alpha. Usually there is a second beta, and one or two release candidates. - mrsteveman1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Your right, i have a feeling that ubuntu is going more for the core desktop market, which means that changes to the system that accommodate desktop users will take precedence over things like server functions.
Ubuntu has a live cd and a real installer as well. That's the sort of thing ubuntu has over debian, they are developing applications and such to make it easier to use. - mrsteveman1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Fedora has never been a mature system, ive seen it break so many things, so many times, that i wouldn't even recommend it to an enemy.
Fedora = Red Hat testing ground, i for one have no faith in it for any purpose but testing. - kipmarlowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The comments have slowed to a crawl so I might be too late, but I'm not sure when another Feisty Fawn article will surface, so I guess it's worth a try . . .
I've already abandoned Windows for Mac, for crying out loud, but I'm really intrigued by this. The author says he likes the OS because it just works. And the screenshots show a very clean and elegant interface, and I like what look to be nicely laid out, usable applications open in the various screenshots. Also, multiple "Start Buttons" and what looks to be a very nice implementation of the "System Tray" (sorry, not sure what these are called in Ubuntu).
In the past I googled the easiest way to become an Linux user, but you wouldn't believe how difficult that search can be from the perspective of someone like me. Yet what's significant here is the promise of a 2 hour setup! I never found anything like that in my would-be forays into Linux use in the past.
But is how many hours would the setup be for a semi-power user newby? I am a Windows (and now Mac) "power user" but only in the sense that I know how to find, read, and employ hacks, workarounds, etc. Basically, I'm not afraid to try. And I guess that's about all that separates me from the masses, so I'd basically be a Linux newb with a bit of a head start.
And I switched from Windows so I wouldn't have to muck around in a corrupted Registry, hack ugly interface elements, and among other things the convenience of applications as drag-able, self-contained packages, instead the mess of elements Windows software installations dump all over the place. So . . . once I've set it up, even if it takes a while, would I be having to fart around because suddenly an application's function inexplicably ceased to function? It's not that Windows crashes, or that someone like me can't keep it virus free, it's that it's flaky, slows down after a few months, etc. And with a rat's nest of a file system and UI. Vista is even MORE "in the user's way" (at least visually).
So can anyone tell me the easiest way to get, and about how long it would take for someone like me?
All I'm looking for are the right links which, I concluded in the past, didn't even exist — though I fear there's no real way but to just jump in and eat the learning curve.
I'm really hoping not because I'd love to be able to use applications like Gimp and Konqueror (Mac file managers suck) without having to use Mac's X11 emulation. - JonLatane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Chroko:
Well, in my Feisty install, all I had to do to enable ATI drivers was click "Restricted Drivers Manager," click a checkbox next to ATI drivers, and restart. - pauldonnelly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Perhaps you should have tried using unrar or p7zip to unrar those files rather than just staring at them and wishing.
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah, I hate it too and it seems to be getting worse -- for those who are informed, how would one go about fixing it themselves (Amount of whitespace + font size) ?
On another note, the wireless app in the bottom right looks good. - Roger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Yogurth
Yes, thats fairly obvious. Problem is they're over doing it with the whitespace.
http://www.osnews.com/img/17505/feisty1.png
Compare the "Send To..." and the "GNOME PPP" window in that screen shot. The PPP one is much more compact. - dougbarrett, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is still in Alpha, and the Restricted Packages manager (that will install nvidia drivers) could potentially fix this problem. Give it the last month it deserves, you might be surprised.
- MatttK, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6@chrono13: I'm not saying anything about Linux but you've either never used Windows XP (or Vista) or you're one of the least intelligent people alive.
When I install Windows XP or Vista, all the default drivers ensure that the basics work on my system. That is, I'm on the internet and have sound, video, etc. Obviously, I'm going to want to update my video drivers for gaming but that's about it. I don't know what kind of pathetic video drivers you use that require .NET or this fabelled hour-long .NET install either.
AVG installs pretty fast.. and I'm pretty sure you can find an easy anti-spyware solution too (I don't need one but I can see how grandma might). IE7 is great, so it's probably best to leave grandma on that, since she already knows how to use IE.
I'm not sure why grandma can't print yet. I don't know how it works on Linux but Windows has had this neat little thing called "plug-and-play" for a while. Basically, you plug the device in and it works. I know that sounds a little advanced and complicated (maybe it might take an hour or two) but once you get the hang of it, you'll be printing in no time.
If it takes you hours to install Thunderbird, I really feel bad for you. Also, how do you go about breaking the GUI in Windows? lol.
Look, maybe Ubuntu is awesome. I don't know and I don't really care either. But your blatant lies only serve to make you look like an idiot. Though, I'm more inclined to believe that you haven't used Windows since 98 or before and are still going off your outdated experience. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1System76
- dougbarrett, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1fwcutter is developing very fast. My bcm4311 card is actually WORKING now, which is saying a lot.
It is really slow (less than 5kb/s) but it is a huge thing, especially since they dont have any 4311 chipsets to work off of, but the majority of Compaq/HP/Dell computers are using this chipset, or the 4318 chipset (which I believe is fully supported...)
So give it time, and yes, your Broadcom wireless card will be working :) - ralph123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I don't know why people modded you down.
Anyway, you are right, it's still an alpha release:
"Herd 5, the last alpha release is another milestone on the road to final release. The next release will be the first beta release of Feisty Fawn. Herd 5 brings with it mainly stability and other bug fixes."
http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/herd5 - chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I use AVG on my Windows boxes. But, like most antivirus, the failure to detect, even will highest settings (herustics, etc), and dismissing the false-positives at those levels, the failure rate is in the double digits: http://www.virus.gr/english/fullxml/default.asp?id=82&mnu=82
Anti-spyware is even worse across the board, and gets worse.
[PDF]: http://www.quicken-asia.com/brochure/AntiSpyware-Comparison-20070103.pdf
Other reports show varying (some worse), but still scary failure rates.
You can not rely on these scans to tell you whether your system is clean or not. The average user doubly so.
Reactive solutions are fine for us, but they don't protect the average user nearly as much as they should. In fact, most security experts agree that reactive solutions can never be all that effective.
Vista's UAC, while not quite as comprehensive in security and least-privileges as Linux, it is an improvement, providing that UAC is not turned off (or much more likely, simply gotten used to and ignored). - Roger, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7http://www.osnews.com/img/17505/feisty1.png
Does all the whitespace in (most) Linux GUIs annoy anyone else but me?
Also the default fonts are usually too big. - kipmarlowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A big thanks for all of your comments! I visited ubuntuforums.org and discovered some other sites from reading the forums there. I'm now more convinced than ever I want to add Linux to my laptop. Even if it takes some doing initially to get the OS running, peripherals on board, apps installed — the sheer savings of Koffice and Gimp alone is so worth it. I can't believe these apps are free.
Free. If there's a failure in marketing it's that people like me don't really get just what FREE really means. In less than a year using a Mac I've purchased over 30 apps, many of which are mere add-ons for Safari, etc. Tons of impressive freeware apps like the Thunderbird email client are vastly superior to apps like Mail and Eudora, but that's not always the case. (I wouldn't know about Entourage because you have to fork out $499 to get it, an over 80% profit margin to Microsoft. That *****'s gotta be stopped.) Anyway, if a shareware app is better than its free alternative, I begrudgingly buy it. Not because I'm rich but because I stare into a 17" rectangle for a living every day, so my apps have to be the most usable, and easy on the eyes, if not beautiful.
The bonus is that Linux and many of its apps appear to be quite usable, with plenty of attention to detail, and some really advanced OS functionality, and to my total surprise — all the eye candy someone like me deems mandatory. Our walls at home are not hospital white with a single suburban mall painting/print per wall, each surrounded by thick white matting, and a boring frame that looks like kitchen cabinet trim. Konqueror here I come . . . - mrsteveman1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Thats an audio chipset issue, probably because the driver module didnt autoload, or your specific chip ID wasn't in the driver.
That sort of thing can be updated fairly easy, it will absolutely be fixed in an update, if its a real problem there are ways to get it working, after which you can forget about it. - demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I suggest you check out the Ubuntu Forums: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
A wonderful community enjoying a wonderful free OS. Newbie friendly! - demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@matttk:
"When I install Windows XP or Vista, all the default drivers ensure that the basics work on my system. That is, I'm on the internet and have sound, video, etc. Obviously, I'm going to want to update my video drivers for gaming but that's about it. I don't know what kind of pathetic video drivers you use that require .NET or this fabelled hour-long .NET install either."
Had Linux (or any other non-MS OS for that matter) enjoyed being preloaded on desktops via the OEMs for as long as Windows has, I'm sure the situation of drivers would be much better than it is to day. Still, I've yet to experience a problem because I buy hardware known to work with Linux, I'm what you call an informed consumer.
"AVG installs pretty fast.. and I'm pretty sure you can find an easy anti-spyware solution too"
Why would I want to use a closed source anti-virus, anti-malware, anti-rootkit, anti-spyware, anti-whatever to scan a closed source OS? Why would I want to waste time scanning an OS all the time with 3rd party utilities? I shouldn't have to, and I won't.
"(I don't need one but I can see how grandma might)."
The grandma argument is a dead horse.
"IE7 is great, so it's probably best to leave grandma on that, since she already knows how to use IE."
I've put several grandpas and grandmas on Firefox with Ubuntu Linux and they prefer it to their bad experiences on Windows and tell me they will never use Windows again.
""plug-and-play""
Don't you mean plug and pray?
"you'll be printing in no time."
And yet several times with various scanners and printers I found them running with a small configuration to a file in Linux whereas drivers didn't exist for Windows or were outdated.
"How do you go about breaking the GUI in Windows? lol."
How do you go about improving it? Oh, that's right, Windows is closed source. With Linux I don't have to settle, I can improve it or ask/pay someone else to. There are tons of free Window Managers and some great Desktop Environments to choose from. If I want bling, there's Beryl and Compiz, again all free. I don't have to pay for my OS, extra applications, and programs etc. nor do I have to trust some closed source app to scan a closed source system.
"Look, maybe Ubuntu is awesome. I don't know and I don't really care either."
If you don't care, why are you reading an Ubuntu article AND posting to it? If you don't know whether or not it's awesome, how does your opinion matter?
"Though, I'm more inclined to believe that you haven't used Windows since 98 or before and are still going off your outdated experience."
I've used Windows 3.11 on up, that means each and every version of Windows released since 3.11 and guess what? I hated each and every one and refuse to use any future Microsoft products ever again.
Perhaps your time would be better spent either trying Ubuntu Feisty in April or refraining from posting to Ubuntu related articles if you "don't care". - supervapio, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Impossible! This makes me smile. http://musiclabs.blogspot.com
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