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- anylo, on 10/23/2007, -7/+73I was quite impressed that you can run Futuremark's 3DMark01 Second Edition and 3DMark03 with Wine.
- carro9, on 10/24/2007, -6/+50The WINE folks seem to be doing a great job with constantly new releases (like every two weeks). Good job for them, but too bad Windows still has the performance edge.
- schestowitz, on 10/30/2007, -23/+66As expected, Linux wins /some/ of the tests and it has caveats where you expect them. Interesting article because it turns words about 'feel' into actual figures.
Also see cases where Linux beats Windows at being Windows:
Windows Programs Sometimes Run Faster On Linux Than XP
http://sunnytalkstech.blogspot.com/2007/10/windows ...
SL Speed Showdown: Linux Tops Windoze
,----[ Quote ]
| This was not a scientific study - only a small test which confirmed what I
| thought I had "felt" already while using Second Life on my new PC.
`----
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/07/sl-spe ...
[MS MVP] Foray into Feisty Fawn helped me take back my MIPS
,----[ Quote ]
| Long story short - World of Warcraft runs faster under Ubuntu/Wine than
| natively under Windows XP Professional.
`----
http://msmvps.com/blogs/plenderj/archive/2007/07/1 ...
Quake 4 On XP, Vista, & Linux
http://www.michaellarabel.com/index.php?k=blog&i=1 ... - thtroyer, on 10/23/2007, -5/+43You do realize that Wine is used for a lot more than just games, right?
- jorgepblank, on 10/21/2007, -4/+33RTFA
- LittleDas, on 10/23/2007, -3/+31Actually it won 1 test.
And it was a cpu test. - barius, on 10/22/2007, -2/+29I'm not sure why anyone would doubt that Windows would win this, I mean...duh?
- D3D is native to Windows. Windows itself provides a lot of internal shortcuts to make D3D more efficient on that platform.
- OGL is not native to Linux. OGL is cross-platform and is provided few if any shortcuts on the various platforms.
- D3D != OpenGL. They are designed with different philosophies. D3D is basically a 'thin-client' to the hardware, it only tries to provide a simplified API to the underlying hardware capabilities. OGL on the other hand tries to hide the hardware to a larger extent, providing a more virtualized environment that can be applied easily across different platforms and hardware. One large difference this makes is that you can't run D3D on non-3D hardware, but you can do so with OpenGL which will default into software-rendering (using your CPU rather than gfx card).
- WINE may not be an emulator, but it does have to translate D3D calls into an equivalent OGL action. This implies overhead. - KevinRoseMustDy, on 10/21/2007, -6/+28You are on Digg. Not freaking YouTube.
- Schpariel, on 10/23/2007, -5/+25WINE Is Not An Emulator. Wine is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix.
- burty89, on 10/21/2007, -0/+21Wrong, WINE does both win32 & DirectX.
- specialK16, on 10/21/2007, -5/+26EPIC FAIL!
- Acglaphotis, on 10/23/2007, -0/+20ActiveX?
- SirB, on 10/22/2007, -0/+19The camera moves much faster in games than in most movies. For example; when you look around in a fast first person shooter you often turn by more than 90 degrees in 1/8 of a second, which gives you only 3 images at 24 fps. That's not enough if you want to kill 'm all.
- jcaino, on 10/25/2007, -5/+24so did your mom last night.
OHHHH!!!!! - Peterix, on 10/23/2007, -1/+20Yes, it's quite impressive. But using these programs for benchmarking on linux isn't really valid for comparing the platforms...
It would be a fair if there was a native OpenGL version on linux.This way, all they tested is how slow the DirectX->OpenGL API translation in Wine is.
When I compare WoW in DirectX/Wine+Linux and OpenGL+Linux, OpenGL gets much better framerates because there's no graphics API translation. - inactive, on 10/22/2007, -2/+20Not really.
Most of the apps I personally use for non-gaming can't be run in WINE, period.
Visual Studio 2005, for example. - DiggerT, on 10/22/2007, -0/+17Cedega's been surpassed by Wine now, runs many games Cedega can't. Cedega is practically dead, hasn't been updated in a while.
- Urzeitlich, on 10/21/2007, -0/+16What the hell are you talking about?
- goldfenix, on 10/22/2007, -2/+18I'm using Crossover (commercial version of Wine, a bit easier on newbies like myself) and I can report that actually Team Fortress 2 runs fairly decently. Granted, not nearly as well as in Windows, but still, that's pretty good.
In Windows, the game pulls a constant 40+ FPS with all details on high.
Via Crossover/Wine, the game pulls the same FPS with all details on low.
Same resolution even, so that isn't bad at all. - barius, on 10/23/2007, -0/+16D'oh,
DIRECTX, of course... - troopa, on 10/21/2007, -1/+16Who told you that 24FPS is the most the human eye can see? That's wrong. I can easily tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps. I must have superhuman eyes.
- Vektuz, on 10/21/2007, -2/+16Actually he's right. 40fps is not nearly enough for a good competitive FPS. If you've played a lot, like I have, you'd know this. The difference between say, 40 fps, and 75-90 fps is night and day when it comes to these games.
- harlowsmonkeys, on 10/22/2007, -2/+16Cantraxp is correct, as he's talking about what WINE is, not about its marketing. If you go look at the WINE release notes and the WINE FAQ going back to the beginning (all available in Google's usenet archives from the comp.emulators.* groups), you'll see that WINE originally stood for "WINdows Emulator". The "WINE is not an Emulator" name was suggested when concerns arose over using the word "Windows", because Microsoft was asserting trademark rights. That suggestion was not taken, and it stayed "WINdows Emulator" for years.
What finally caused "WINE is Not an Emulator" to be reconsidered was the rise of hardware emulators. The concern was that most people had only encountered emulators that emulated CPUs or other hardware. Those tend to be slow, and so people might assume that WINE was inherently slow, and avoid it. Hence, they made a *marketing* decision to not call it an emulator, as it is easier to change the meaning of the WINE name than it is to educate the general user population on what emulation really means. They did not make any technical changes for this, and it continued to actually be an emulator, just as it had been for the previous several years. - canthraxp, on 10/22/2007, -6/+19Pretty good for an emulation of directx. It would be cool to see a comparison between OpenGL and DirectX UT3 later.
- chad78, on 10/21/2007, -0/+13First of all, the 1st comment painted Linux in a GOOD LIGHT. Saying that running some games under WINE was faster than XP.
Secondly, the reverse *CAN* be said. I can easily emulate Linux for free under Windows. (CYG-WIN, CoLinux, DSL, QEmu, etc.).
I think what you meant to say is we can't run Windows for free, (I say "we'" even though I'm writing this on a Mac, and haven't used Windows as my main OS for years.) Which, of course, is not true. Aside from piracy, there's the fact that most people already have Windows - bought and paid for or otherwise. They either got it when they got their PC, or they bought it since then, or whatever. My MacBook cost me $1000 - but, it doesn't cost me a dime to use it *NOW*. Whereas asking someone to download an ISO, burn a CD, back up all their data, erase their hard drive, install Linux, replace their data, download and install all the software they need... That's not "Free" - that's called cost of labor.
I like Linux. I use Linux, and Mac OS X and Windows if I have to. But don't go off on how Linux is better because it doesn't cost anything. To most people, Windows doesn't either. Same applies to MS Office vs OpenOffice.org, (to which I've spent many many hours volunteering). The price tag doesn't show the cost. It only shows how much you'll pay right now.
btw - I'll be HAPPY to digg you down. - fluxion, on 10/21/2007, -0/+12wow dude, you just killed your teammate
- aldenhg, on 10/21/2007, -6/+18"windows wins again"
Again? That implies that Windows has won other things. Let's see... security? Windows loses. Open source? Windows loses. Vista? Windows loses hardcore.
There's no reason to get down on WINE just because it isn't as good as Windows is at DirectX. Last I checked, they've taken a closed system and reverse engineered it to re-implement it on a different operating system and they give it away for free. So there's another thing that Windows loses on. Community. - Goosey, on 10/22/2007, -0/+11Somewhat impressive, but also revealing how far they have to go. 3DMark03 is 5 years old now..
- Disfnord, on 10/23/2007, -1/+12Have you tried the latest proprietary drivers? They work for me with a 9600xt.. although neither monitors are wide screen...
- andycr512, on 10/24/2007, -0/+11Having Wine pre-installed by default and assigning it to run .exe files on double-click would certainly add some polish and "awe factor" for those users who never knew Linux could run Windows EXE's.
- Fergy, on 10/21/2007, -0/+11It's not emulated, it's a reimplementation of the win32 api.
- aldenhg, on 10/23/2007, -0/+11Cedega is a joke. I've found that regular old free Wine is much better at pretty much everything. Besides, the guys who run TransGaming kinds stole the Wine source code and don't contribute anything back to the community.
- mmmiiikkkeee, on 10/21/2007, -2/+12wins what? I don't play games. :)
- Acglaphotis, on 10/23/2007, -2/+12GOOD! ActiveX sucks.
- barius, on 10/23/2007, -3/+13Not an emulator, but it is a 'translator'. It still has to translate ActiveX calls into OGL which is where a majority of the performance hit comes in.
- colto, on 10/20/2007, -0/+9It is a shame. For every application/game that you can't get running under Linux properly, the more users don't find it as a viable OS anymore. Maybe if we can just start getting more software developers to develop for Linux, Adobe and Valve would be a good play to start.
- championchap, on 10/20/2007, -2/+11I might if there was a WINE equivalent for Windows that translated Linux commands to the Windows commands and outperformed, say, Gentoo for example.
- aldenhg, on 10/23/2007, -1/+10To be fair, they don't have to be dicks about it.
- murf43143, on 10/22/2007, -4/+13Very impressive, I like where this is heading especially.
- WorldGroove, on 10/22/2007, -3/+12http://www.winehq.org/site/myths
Check out myth 1. While wine does introduce a "layer", it's not the same as emulating the whole x86 processor. A windows program can run at the same speed on Linux with a well configured wine foundation. - MrDarkSim, on 10/22/2007, -3/+11Interesting article. I know this has nothing to do with this article but if you just upgraded to 7.10 from 7.04 don't forget to update your WINE repository. I'm sure a lot of you already know that but for those that don't.
http://www.winehq.org/site/download-deb - noddyxoi, on 10/21/2007, -2/+10When windows wins means everybody looses, except for MS. RETARD !
- regeya, on 10/23/2007, -4/+12Not the fairest benchmark; actually, about as fair as a Linux vs. Windows test would be if someone came out with, say, a binary Linux ELF user-level ABI for Windows, ran Linux-specific benchmarks on Windows and Linux, and discovered--surprise!--that Linux outperformed Windows by several times.
WINE is an abstraction layer providing a Windows API on top of *n?x, and doesn't necessarily have 3D performance in mind. A better test would be to pit the commercial Cedega against XP SP2 (though I'm willing to bet that XP SP2 would win that one too.) - aldenhg, on 10/21/2007, -0/+8sudo apt-get install wine
winecfg
wine yourprogramhere.exe
Boom. - FreakTrap, on 10/21/2007, -5/+12tl;dr:
If you have an older video card, or no video card at all [as in a laptop], than you *might* see marginally better performance in *some* games running with Linux emulation; otherwise, Linux is still not capable of outperforming newer hardware [think, last three-four years] and Windows operating systems in gaming performance. - drakethegreat, on 10/21/2007, -2/+9Well that performance edge is kind of expected. Think about it. Whats a native API for Windows is a wrapper for Linux. So essentially you have another layer over Windows which is a sure way to get less performance. The only way I could see Wine winning is if Linux itself had good graphics drivers that were open source and the operating system was just plain faster at passing information to the gfx card.
- mindwarp, on 10/21/2007, -1/+8Comparing two operating systems with measurable criteria helps everyone make more educated decisions.
- noddyxoi, on 10/21/2007, -1/+8And everybody knowns that when MS wins everybody loses.
- inactive, on 10/21/2007, -4/+11Yeah, it's a shame that Yet Another FPS won't be available.
- Ademan, on 10/22/2007, -1/+8Well I think his point was that it's an extra abstration layer, which implies some overhead.
Rather than
Win32
HAL?
Hardware
It ends up being more like
win32
HAL
linux kernel
HAL
hardware
(Note that's my incredibly uninformed explanation, if i'm wrong and i probably am, let me know)
Either way that illustrates my point. Win32 calls have to go through more layers, which incurs SLIGHT overhead.
@xkilleddestinyx
Here's where it get's interesting, because if you profiled this sort of thing, the cost of a function call or two (per win32 call mind you) is (probably) negligible, so the extra layers aren't really that much of a performance hit, and because this difference is negligible, if the underlying implementation is, in fact faster, then it has the potential to being faster overall. -
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